The gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Church??

[B-A-C]

Do you believe that can be achieved while we are on this side of eternity?

I can give you a dozen verses that say it can, if you can give me one that says it can't. No I haven't reached perfection yet. But the Bible does say it's possible.

 

[complete]

Do you believe that can be achieved while we are on this side of eternity?

Hello @Dave M,

I believe the Church which is the Body of Christ, will one day, corporately, attain unto a perfect man, yes. Only God knows when this will take place. We are spread throughout the world, and not known to one another for the most part, but we are known of God. We, 'grow up,' - ' into Him, in all things, which is the head, even Christ.' The body is not changed until the resurrection, but now the mind is being renewed. We will have the body of His glory then ( Philippians 3:21 ), but now we have the mind of Christ ( Philippians 2:5 ).

'Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children,
tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love,
may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together
and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
maketh increase of the body
unto the edifying of itself in love.'
( Eph 4:13-16 )

' I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice,
holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.'
(Rom 12:1-2)

* This is the measure, this is the plumb-line.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

1Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Hello @B-A-C,

Yes, praise God! He came in the flesh, and still retains flesh and bones in his resurrection body. When He comes the mark of the nails, and the crown of thorns will still be visible, for it will cause the Jew to mourn when they see Him.

Yet regarding the work of the Spirit of God, we need no visible confirmation of it in the form of spiritual gifts, for we walk by faith and not by sight.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[vhusley]

Duplicate response. Apologies.

 

[vhusley]

Yet regarding the work of the Spirit of God, we need no visible confirmation of it in the form of spiritual gifts, for we walk by faith and not by sight.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

But we do not walk without hearing….for we cannot gain faith without it.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” - Romans 10:17

And guess what?….tongues and prophesy…..the two miraculous sign gifts of which Paul speaks extensively…are manifested through what we HEAR….not what we see.

 

[complete]

But we do not walk without hearing….for we cannot gain faith without it.

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” - Romans 10:17

And guess what?….tongues and prophesy…..the two miraculous sign gifts of which Paul speaks extensively…are manifested through what we HEAR….not what we see.

'For the word of God is quick, and powerful,
and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
and of the joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight:
but all things are naked and opened
unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.'
(Heb 4:12-13)

Hello @vhusley,

Yes, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, I agree.

The word of God is the sword of the Spirit, and it is through the reading of it that He works in the heart and mind of the believer: discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart, and dividing soul and spirit ( ie., Flesh and Spirit or the Old and New Nature ).

'In the law it is written,
With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; (Israel)
and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign,
not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not,
but for them which believe.'
(1Cor. 14:21-22)

Tongue speaking was a sign for Israel, yet they would not believe. Prophesy was given for them that believed. I believe that the Scriptures contain the sum total of all prophecy.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waggles]

And yet today Pentecostal churches will operate the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit -
tongues followed by interpretation (up to three times )
and then up to three gifts of prophecy
all done decently and in order in full accordance with the guidelines laid out in scripture.

 

[complete]

And yet today Pentecostal churches will operate the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit -
tongues followed by interpretation (up to three times )
and then up to three gifts of prophecy
all done decently and in order in full accordance with the guidelines laid out in scripture.

Hello @Waggles,

It is before God we stand, don't we? We walk according to the light that we have received.

May His will be done in each one of us, for His Name and Glory's sake.

 

[Waggles]

It is before God we stand, don't we? We walk according to the light that we have received.

What has any of this to do with operating the voice gifts of the Holy spirit in a meeting of the saints?

1Corinthians 14:26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be unto edifying.
27 If any speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and in turn; and let one interpret:
28 but if there be no interpreter, let him be silent in church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 And let prophets speak by two or three, and let the others discern.

 

[Brad Huber]

Not a lot of heated arguements and on a subject that is dear to me, thats all good. But I am trying to gauge the "healthiness" of churchs in how they employ the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which is critical in the "edification" and "building up" of the churchs. Not with wood, stone and metal, but with the true heart of the church. Some of you have responded in this light, I would ask more details, and for others to speak on the "exact" subject matter.
examples.....
1. We have a portion of time set up in church service after singing in worship for any prophecies (with any limits?) or tongues if there are interpreters.
2. Healings at what point of the service, or not at sunday service, but at another time or day, but in the church setting, whether non believers are invited in, that sort of stuff
3. Words of knowledge and how and when employed.
4. Often those teaching in sunday school are merely people who want to (or guilted into) teach but may not be gifted in it, examples of truly "good" teachers who enrapture the audience, with faces shining with the power of God

More examples are welcome, this would be just some.

 

[Reba1]

' voice gifts" is not a Biblical term. We Christians would be better off sticking to the words of the Word.

 

[Reba1]

Not a lot of heated arguements and on a subject that is dear to me, thats all good. But I am trying to gauge the "healthiness" of churchs in how they employ the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which is critical in the "edification" and "building up" of the churchs. Not with wood, stone and metal, but with the true heart of the church. Some of you have responded in this light, I would ask more details, and for others to speak on the "exact" subject matter.
examples.....
1. We have a portion of time set up in church service after singing in worship for any prophecies (with any limits?) or tongues if there are interpreters.
2. Healings at what point of the service, or not at sunday service, but at another time or day, but in the church setting, whether non believers are invited in, that sort of stuff
3. Words of knowledge and how and when employed.
4. Often those teaching in sunday school are merely people who want to (or guilted into) teach but may not be gifted in it, examples of truly "good" teachers who enrapture the audience, with faces shining with the power of God

More examples are welcome, this would be just some.

The church group sits aside a time for the Holy Spirit/God to operate? As a kid i knew what church would be .... hello to every one 3 songs testimony time offering and preaching.. Who made that the plan man or God . Who is man to tell Holy Spirit ,You cannot heal on Sunday ? Are we really open to following the Lord , or asking to Him to accept our ways as an offering? I understand order and how stuff/people can get goofy. Even the shadows of the apostles had enough faith to cause healing.


















































g the Lord

 

[vhusley]

' voice gifts" is not a Biblical term. We Christians would be better off sticking to the words of the Word.

“Trinity”, “Christianity”, and “Rapture” are not biblical terms either. Neither is “Discipleship”. But people still use them all the time without rebuke. I believe SOME THINGS are (should be) simply “understood” by believers and don’t require a lesson in semantics. This is one of those things. It’s simply using “voice” to denote or categorize particular kinds of spiritual gifts that are plainly and obviously spoken of in scripture.

Of course, there are other points of doctrine where using the correct biblical word absolutely matters.

 

[vhusley]

The church group sits aside a time for the Holy Spirit/God to operate? As a kid i knew what church would be .... hello to every one 3 songs testimony time offering and preaching.. Who made that the plan man or God . Who is man to tell Holy Spirit ,You cannot heal on Sunday ? Are we really open to following the Lord , or asking to Him to accept our ways as an offering? I understand order and how stuff/people can get goofy. Even the shadows of the apostles had enough faith to cause healing.


















































g the Lord

This is so true. And a great lesson for why we can’t put God “in a box”.
God will work as He wills and His Holy Spirit should not (can not) be bound by our earthly limitations. Jesus broke all custom/law when He started healing on the Sabbath.

 

[Brad Huber]

The church group sits aside a time for the Holy Spirit/God to operate? As a kid i knew what church would be .... hello to every one 3 songs testimony time offering and preaching.. Who made that the plan man or God . Who is man to tell Holy Spirit ,You cannot heal on Sunday ? Are we really open to following the Lord , or asking to Him to accept our ways as an offering? I understand order and how stuff/people can get goofy. Even the shadows of the apostles had enough faith to cause healing.
g the Lord

You dont understand. Otherwise you would not condemn order. Is God a God of chaos? Perhaps to you, but not my Lord. God promotes order. I dont say it "has to be" such and such an order, some orders are stifling to the point of being dead, but it sounds to me that you prefer chaos. And the shadows that healed were not done in a church setting, read your scripture and note that I am speaking about the edification of the church, not healing of the masses of people while walking to and fro due to thier faith.

 

[vhusley]

You dont understand. Otherwise you would not condemn order. Is God a God of chaos? Perhaps to you, but not my Lord. God promotes order. I dont say it "has to be" such and such an order, some orders are stifling to the point of being dead, but it sounds to me that you prefer chaos.

Is it possible that OUR understanding of “order” may be different than God’s understanding of it?

For example…i am a teacher by profession….things done in “orderly fashion” from my perspective would be those things that are completed according to MY efficient time scale and on a CONSISTENT basis.

I think Gods Word and our experience with Him will show that His time scale is sometimes anything but efficient at least according to ours.

Please allow me to elaborate: we have had services at my church where the power of God fell and the Holy Spirit moved and the altar call would last 2 hours…..people praying, weeping, worshipping, etc.
other times it may last 10-15 minutes. Our church service may randomly break out into a prayer service at any time. We try to be sensitive to what the Holy Spirit is doing.

Point being, to anyone looking from the outside, there is no consistency and seems to be no order to it all.

 

[Brad Huber]

Is it possible that OUR understanding of “order” may be different than God’s understanding of it?

For example…i am a teacher by profession….things done in “orderly fashion” from my perspective would be those things that are completed according to MY efficient time scale and on a CONSISTENT basis.

I think Gods Word and our experience with Him will show that His time scale is sometimes anything but efficient at least according to ours.

Please allow me to elaborate: we have had services at my church where the power of God fell and the Holy Spirit moved and the altar call would last 2 hours…..people praying, weeping, worshipping, etc.
other times it may last 10-15 minutes. Our church service may randomly break out into a prayer service at any time. We try to be sensitive to what the Holy Spirit is doing.

Point being, to anyone looking from the outside, there is no consistency and seems to be no order to it all.

I already said that some order can be stifling of the Holy Spirit. But again, God is not a God of chaos! Jesus went to the synagogue and "waited" until it was His time to read a passage and expound on it, declaring Himself. The temple was laid out according to the "specific instructions" or order that God had ordained. He divided the land in "order" of the tribes and set certain people to keep order over the holy objects which were set in "order" and if they touched something they were not supposed to, bad things would happen. Why are you defending chaos? God loves order, which doesnt mean that He cant break that order to shake people up, but He still loves order.

 

[vhusley]

I already said that some order can be stifling of the Holy Spirit. But again, God is not a God of chaos! Jesus went to the synagogue and "waited" until it was His time to read a passage and expound on it, declaring Himself. The temple was laid out according to the "specific instructions" or order that God had ordained. He divided the land in "order" of the tribes and set certain people to keep order over the holy objects which were set in "order" and if they touched something they were not supposed to, bad things would happen. Why are you defending chaos? God loves order, which doesnt mean that He cant break that order to shake people up, but He still loves order.

I wasn’t disagreeing with you. God is indeed a God of order and not of confusion.
The only thing I was suggesting was that God’s ways are not ours. His “order” may not always line up with our understanding of what “orderly” means. ‍

 

[Brad Huber]

I wasn’t disagreeing with you. God is indeed a God of order and not of confusion.
The only thing I was suggesting was that God’s ways are not ours. His “order” may not always line up with our understanding of what “orderly” means. ‍♂

Although I agree with you, speaking out against or agreeing with others about disagreements is "not" what I was hoping for. Please try to follow the order I set out at the beginning of this thread. May God bless you.

 

[Reba1]

You dont understand. Otherwise you would not condemn orde

show be where i condemned order

Although I agree with you, speaking out against or agreeing with others about disagreements is "not" what I was hoping for. Please try to follow the order I set out at the beginning of this thread. May God bless you.

Liberal thinking for sure think like me or you are canceled .