The good shepherd (parable analysis)

[God's Truth]

Three What? Three What? -There are Three Persons and you know it.

No such thing as three different DIVINE PERSONS.
No such thing in the scriptures, only in the teachings of the trinity doctrine, which came from the Catholics.

I have been telling you three "what?". You don't want to hear it because it goes against your beliefs.

God is Spirit and there is only one Divine Spirit.---God comes as a Father, a Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are the same one Spirit, not three different Spirits that you teach.

I answered it is the Father that sends the Holy Spirit, but do you realize you can't ask any of those questions, without assuming Three Persons?

No way.

This is not the confession you need to make, you need to confess Jesus, the Son of God, came in the flesh. And not that The Father came in the flesh "as a Son". That is not the confession. "As a son", whatever that means, doesn't make Him the Son. Jesus is the Son of God, this is yet another confession you can't make, all you can say is that The Father "as a Son", is the Son. Because you only believe in One Person, you can't have interaction between Father and Son, only Father and Himself.

You have a lot of nerve twisting what I say and telling me I need to confess something. You need to confess and repent for following and teaching falseness.
Why don't you answer the questions I gave you? It is all Biblical. Try to see if you can do it with your trinity doctrine beliefs.

 

[Daniel L.]

I have been telling you three "what?".

Three What? If not Persons, Three What?

 

[God's Truth]

Three What? If not Persons, Three What?

God is Spirit. There is only One Divine Spirit God.
God has revealed Himself to us as the Father in heaven, unseen, and in unapproachable light.
He also has shown Himself to us as a Son in the flesh.
His Holy Spirit can and does go forth from Him, and can live in all the saved, and be many places at once.

You however, make three different gods and call them one God.
You say there is the Father with a Spirit, the Son with a different Spirit, and the Holy Spirit yet another Spirit.
That goes against the scriptures.

 

[Daniel L.]

He also has shown Himself to us as a Son in the flesh.

"As a Son" of Himself?

Is Father "as a Son" the Son of Father?

 

[GodB4Us]

There is only One God.

Jesus is that One God and Father come as a Son.

@7cats @Daniel L. @Christ4Ever

Then who was Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.....42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done....44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

How is it that the Son had experienced the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself on the cross?

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The One God is in 3 Persons as there are 3 Witnesses within the One God otherwise, God cannot establish a word in creation unless there were 2 or 3 other witnesses and God cannot judge any one unless there were 2 or 3 other witnesses. What God requires of man is how He establishes a testimony and how He judges.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Therefore Jesus cannot testify of Himself if He was the One Person God in being the Father also.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Proverbs 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Different lips is required to praise the one without being of the same lips.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The righteousness that was the prophesy that was fulfilled when God the Father & the Holy Spirit "sending" God Our Redeemer by testifying of Jesus Christ as His Son as God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Too bad Matt Slick won't come here to your site to debate the trinity doctrine. I've offered to debate him about the trinity on his site, but he can't answer questions.
If a person can't answer questions to their beliefs, then they shouldn't teach those beliefs.
Think about it: how can a person keep saying their belief is true but the other person's belief is false, if you can't give an answer?
Jesus says be ready to give an answer.

Dear God's Truth,
To be honest, if you were in my shoes, and someone from a corrupted belief as I see it, tells you something about someone who clearly has been challenged by others, and there is video proof to it. Why should I take your word for what you have written above concerning him? Add to that the person in question has joined a site that clearly is against the very foundation of their belief; won't that in itself make you question the individual's motivation in making such statements and not inspire much confidence in the validity of what has been written concerning someone else?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,
To be honest, if you were in my shoes, and someone from a corrupted belief as I see it, tells you something about someone who clearly has been challenged by others, and there is video proof to it. Why should I take your word for what you have written above concerning him? Add to that the person in question has joined a site that clearly is against the very foundation of their belief; won't that in itself make you question the individual's motivation in making such statements and not inspire much confidence in the validity of what has been written concerning someone else?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[God's Truth]

"As a Son" of Himself?

Is Father "as a Son" the Son of Father?

Concentrate on your beliefs and try to prove it with scripture.
You say there are three divine Persons.
Show me where in the Bible it says that or means that.

You also say the Father is a Spirit, and Jesus has a different Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is yet another different Spirit.
Show me in the scriptures that say there are three different divine Spirits.

If you can do that I will consider your beliefs as truth.

 

[God's Truth]

@7cats @Daniel L. @Christ4Ever

Then who was Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane?

Jesus was praying to his Father in heaven.

How is it that the Son had experienced the separation from the Father when He took our sins upon Himself on the cross?

God came as a man that is how.

The One God is in 3 Persons as there are 3 Witnesses within the One God otherwise, God cannot establish a word in creation unless there were 2 or 3 other witnesses and God cannot judge any one unless there were 2 or 3 other witnesses. What God requires of man is how He establishes a testimony and how He judges.

The three are exactly the same. They say the exact same thing.

The righteousness that was the prophesy that was fulfilled when God the Father & the Holy Spirit "sending" God Our Redeemer by testifying of Jesus Christ as His Son as God.

You never did answer the questions I asked you.
Is the Father the Redeemer or is Jesus? Or do we have Redeemers?
You don't know that there is one Spirit and that Jesus the Lord is the Spirit?

 

[Christ4Ever]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Dear God's Truth,
Did you understand what you wrote to me in your post? If so, what in my reply to it did you not understand?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,
Did you understand what you wrote to me in your post? If so, what in my reply to it did you not understand?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I don't understand what you are talking about, even after reading it a couple of times.

Are you a Calvinist like Matt Slick?

Does Matt Slick believe in speaking in tongues as you believe?

 

[Christ4Ever]

I don't understand what you are talking about, even after reading it a couple of times.

Dear God's Truth,
What exactly did you post to me? Let's rehash:

Too bad Matt Slick won't come here to your site to debate the trinity doctrine. I've offered to debate him about the trinity on his site, but he can't answer questions.
If a person can't answer questions to their beliefs, then they shouldn't teach those beliefs.
Think about it: how can a person keep saying their belief is true but the other person's belief is false, if you can't give an answer?
Jesus says be ready to give an answer.

Let's see if I can simplify it for you. I question the validity of the statements you made in the above post.

I supported this belief by showing you that the individual in question Mr. Slick, had indeed taken questions and done so in video format from others. While your claim that he can't answer questions is not supported with anything concrete in your post but your own words. At least if you can support it, you failed to share it in your post.

Also, I question your sincerity, because who in good purpose joins a site that is contrary to a belief that is foundational in one's own? Surely, no one with good intent, or one that seeks to Evangelize others.

I quoted my own post below, so you won't have to go bouncing back and forth to see what I originally responded to you.

Dear God's Truth,
To be honest, if you were in my shoes, and someone from a corrupted belief as I see it, tells you something about someone who clearly has been challenged by others, and there is video proof to it. Why should I take your word for what you have written above concerning him? Add to that the person in question has joined a site that clearly is against the very foundation of their belief; won't that in itself make you question the individual's motivation in making such statements and not inspire much confidence in the validity of what has been written concerning someone else?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,
What exactly did you post to me? Let's rehash:

Let's see if I can simplify it for you. I question the validity of the statements you made in the above post.

I supported this belief by showing you that the individual in question Mr. Slick, had indeed taken questions and done so in video format from others. While your claim that he can't answer questions is not supported with anything concrete in your post but your own words. At least if you can support it, you failed to share it in your post.

Also, I question your sincerity, because who in good purpose joins a site that is contrary to a belief that is foundational in one's own? Surely, no one with good intent, or one that seeks to Evangelize others.

I quoted my own post below, so you won't have to go bouncing back and forth to see what I originally responded to you.



With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Matt Slick didn't debate me when I asked him personally. I don't give the same argument as others, so don't know how you can use a debate he had with someone else as some kind of proof he could answer my questions.
You said something about not believing me because you don't share my beliefs, well Matt Slick is a Calvinist, are you?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Matt Slick didn't debate me when I asked him personally. I don't give the same argument as others, so don't know how you can use a debate he had with someone else as some kind of proof he could answer my questions.
You said something about not believing me because you don't share my beliefs, well Matt Slick is a Calvinist, are you?

Dear God's Truth,
Let's see if I can make it even simpler for you.
How do I know you even asked him, "personally" or otherwise?
I don't.
How can I trust what you say, when you join a site that clearly does not agree with what you believe is Scripturally true?
I don't.

And as far as your last statement in your post. Again, an incorrect understanding on your part. I questioned you as a person of faith who would voluntarily join a site "Talk Jesus" that believes in the Trinity that clearly you don't.

So, I can only come to the conclusion that your purpose is neither for the good of the membership or is an attempt to spread a false doctrine. Also, your attempt to deflect as to what Mr. Slick believes, in another area of doctrine that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and to tie me to that same belief is despicable to say the least. Be warned! For I'll only accept the use of such insinuations for so long before I'll take action.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,
How do I know you even asked him, "personally" or otherwise?

What would be the reason in saying I asked if I didn't, when obviously I love talking about God's Truth and debating.

How can I trust what you say, when you join a site that clearly does not agree with what you believe is Scripturally true?

How can you trust what anyone says, for that matter.
Do you have everyone on this site with the same beliefs? No you don't, so are you asking them why they have joined? Do you speak to them the way you speak to me? Have you read how some of the posters here speak to each other?

And as far as your last statement in your post. Again, an incorrect understanding on your part. I questioned you as a person of faith who would voluntarily join a site "Talk Jesus" that believes in the Trinity that clearly you don't.

I didn't know this site only allowed trinitarians to join. Just because a site owner has specific beliefs it doesn't mean a person with another belief can't join, or else I missed that warning when I registered?

So, I can only come to the conclusion that your purpose is neither for the good of the membership or is an attempt to spread a false doctrine.

Why aren't you talking like that to others here? There are people trying to prove their beliefs that are different from others and it is going on in just about every single thread on this site. Just look at how ploughboy is speaking to Rheem concerning tongues, and look at how people can't even agree on why Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery, and look at all the other topics where the members don't agree.

Also, your attempt to deflect as to what Mr. Slick believes, in another area of doctrine that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and to tie me to that same belief is despicable to say the least. Be warned! For I'll only accept the use of such insinuations for so long before I'll take action.

Tie you to what beliefs? You insinuate that I am dishonest about asking Matt Slick to debate me, because you don't share my beliefs about how God is One, but you don't have Matt Slicks beliefs either.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear @God's Truth
I apologize for attempting to make sense of what you clearly do not understand yourself.
My warning to you stands.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
\o/
<><

 

[GodB4Us]

Jesus was praying to his Father in heaven.

Then how can Jesus be the Father?

God came as a man that is how.

Man was created in God's image for why God that visited man in the Old Testament was seen as a "man" even though He is God. Therefore when Jesus become incarnated as the prophesied Son of man to give His life as a ransom for many, He was and still is the Son of God as in the Ord of God that created the world and mankind in it too. John 1:1-14

The three are exactly the same. They say the exact same thing.

Apparently not in the Garden when Jesus made a prayer request to have the cup taken from Him but only of the Father wills and not His own.

When They are saying the same thing as 3 Witnesses within the Godhead since it is the Father's will to be done BUT each the Spirit & the Son has Their own intercessions that Jesus gives to the Father from that throne of grace.

You never did answer the questions I asked you.
Is the Father the Redeemer or is Jesus? Or do we have Redeemers?
You don't know that there is one Spirit and that Jesus the Lord is the Spirit?

Since it is the Father's will being done for all Three Witnesses to be in agreement for how God Our Redeemer as Jesus has saved us therefore God that has saved us.

As for Spirit, the Father has His own body just as the Son has His own body in that Godhead for why the Word of God made the request to make man after "our" image" and after "our" likeness so that when all in agreement to the Father's will & permission, God created man in His image.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

That means when believers go to Heaven, in that day Jesus said we will no longer need Him as our Mediator but we can go ask the Father Himself for He loves us also.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

[Daniel L.]

You say there are three divine Persons.

Yes, that is the only way to interpret Jesus praying to the Father, if you only have One Person, you can only have the Father praying to Himself, "as a Son".

Basically any and every interaction between Father and Son, requires Two Persons, or else you have the Father interacting with Himself. And when Jesus said HE didn't come in His Own Name, He basically refuted One Person theology, because HE differentiated between the Name of the Son, and the Name of the Father, One Sent the other was Sent. You can't have the Father sending Himself in His Own Name, that is unbiblical.

You also say the Father is a Spirit, and Jesus has a different Spirit

In terms of Person, yes, Jesus commended His Spirit to the Hands of the Father. It wasn't the Father that commended the Spirit of The Father into His Own Hand.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

 

[God's Truth]

Then how can Jesus be the Father?

God is a Spirit,

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

and lives in unapproachable light.

1 Timothy 6:14 Keep this commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which God will bring about in His own time — He who is blessed and the only Sovereign One, the King of kings and Lord of lords. 16 He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.…

Before God made anything, He made Himself a body, and this is Jesus not yet known as Jesus.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.


After God made Himself a body, which is Jesus not yet known as Jesus, He then created everything through this body.


Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

When Jesus came to earth, he lowered himself and gave up that body in heaven for a flesh body.
When Jesus died and rose again and ascended to heaven, he received back that immortal body.
He is the First and the Last.

God the Father in the Old Testament is called the First and the Last, and that is Jesus name in the New Testament.
They are the same one, just revealed to us in three.
That Spirit in Jesus is the Spirit of God, also called the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, that is the only way to interpret Jesus praying to the Father, if you only have One Person, you can only have the Father praying to Himself, "as a Son".

God reveals Himself to us as a Father, as a Son, and as the Holy Spirit.

Basically any and every interaction between Father and Son, requires Two Persons, or else you have the Father interacting with Himself. And when Jesus said HE didn't come in His Own Name, He basically refuted One Person theology, because HE differentiated between the Name of the Son, and the Name of the Father, One Sent the other was Sent. You can't have the Father sending Himself in His Own Name, that is unbiblical.

In terms of Person, yes, Jesus commended His Spirit to the Hands of the Father. It wasn't the Father that commended the Spirit of The Father into His Own Hand.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Jesus' spirit is the Spirit of God come as a human's spirit.