The Rapture

[exsurfbum]

@ Bendito It does not say bride , it says we that are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord , shall not prevent them which are asleep, but will be caught up with them ,

You say ingathering at second coming, according to what you say that would be the third time , because you say he is coming back before tribulation, then coming back at the end of the tribulation , and he has already came once, let's count
1= born as a baby ,
2= a rapture, before tribulation
3= coming of the Lord , after tribulation
Come on now a first grader , can count this , why say seconding coming when plainly you mean 3rd coming,

There are only 2 'comings' of Yeshua our Lord. The 1st already happened and the 2nd will happen at the end of Daniel's 70th week. The Rapture isn't a 'return' of our Lord because His feet never touch the Earth, rather, we meet Him in the sky. Some people consider His 2nd coming to be in 2 parts, the Rapture being the 1st part of Yeshua's return, but that's not technically correct when He doesn't set foot on the ground and couldn't be considered a 'return'. The Bible tells us that at His 2nd coming all eyes on Earth will see Him, but at the Rapture, only His body will see Jesus.

 

[Bendito]

There are only 2 'comings' of Yeshua our Lord. The 1st already happened and the 2nd will happen at the end of Daniel's 70th week. The Rapture isn't a 'return' of our Lord because His feet never touch the Earth, rather, we meet Him in the sky. Some people consider His 2nd coming to be in 2 parts, the Rapture being the 1st part of Yeshua's return, but that's not technically correct when He doesn't set foot on the ground and couldn't be considered a 'return'. The Bible tells us that at His 2nd coming all eyes on Earth will see Him, but at the Rapture, only His body will see Jesus.

Two comings of Jesus.. So the first time was when Jesus was on Earth and was c he Rapture. You do not want to confuse that with the second coming. The Rapture is when Jesus comes to meet the bride in the air. His feet do not touch the ground, thus He has not come..And Yes! The Bride...Those who have made themselves READY....Those who are WATCHING for Him....Not all those who call themselves Christians will be ready, and not all who call themselves Christians really are Christians.. Not to worry though....Those who are not raptured will meet Him at His second coming....If they will follow Him.

 

[Bendito]

@ Bendito can you read
1 Thessalonians 4:15 , and truly say this is not the coming of the Lord, come on now, the truth will make you free, here it it read it and tell me this is not the coming of the
Lord
1 Thessalonians 4: 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Clear as a bell this is the coming of the Lord, do you deny this is the coming of the Lord?

Why would you base your answer on a single verse? Look at


1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 and see the whole thought!

13 Now, brothers, we want you to know the truth about those who have died; otherwise, you might become sad the way other people 14 do who have nothing to hope for. For since we believe that Yeshua died and rose again, we also believe that in the same way God, through Yeshua, will take with him those who have died. 15 When we say this, we base it on the Lord’s own word: we who remain alive when the Lord comes will certainly not take precedence over those who have died.

It's not talking so much of who gets raptured as the order, who goes first. And yes! This is the Rapture, not the second coming.

 

[Sue D.]

Two comings of Jesus.. So the first time was when Jesus was on Earth and was c he Rapture. You do not want to confuse that with the second coming. The Rapture is when Jesus comes to meet the bride in the air. His feet do not touch the ground, thus He has not come..And Yes! The Bride...Those who have made themselves READY....Those who are WATCHING for Him....Not all those who call themselves Christians will be ready, and not all who call themselves Christians really are Christians.. Not to worry though....Those who are not raptured will meet Him at His second coming....If they will follow Him.

The Bride of Christ = All who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Everyone with whom the Holy Spirit is dwelling Will be caught up to meet Him in the air..

No one will be meeting Jesus Christ at His second coming. He will be coming down to this earth. And there will be 7 years of tribulation Before that happens.
And Scripture says that those who Have rejected Christ and are still here on earth - They will come under a great delusion. They will Not be given a 2nd chance -- They will find some sort of explanation that everyone is expected to believe / accept. The Holy Spirit will have left with the Church / Bride of Christ. Revelation Does say that there will be group of 144,000 who will be going out amongst the population to reach other Jews for Jesus. It will likely cost them their lives to accept Christ. There will be multitudes who come to Christ.

There will be a few left here to enter the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. The earth will repopulate.

 

[Bendito]

The Bride of Christ = All who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Everyone with whom the Holy Spirit is dwelling Will be caught up to meet Him in the air..

No one will be meeting Jesus Christ at His second coming. He will be coming down to this earth. And there will be 7 years of tribulation Before that happens.
And Scripture says that those who Have rejected Christ and are still here on earth - They will come under a great delusion. They will Not be given a 2nd chance -- They will find some sort of explanation that everyone is expected to believe / accept. The Holy Spirit will have left with the Church / Bride of Christ. Revelation Does say that there will be group of 144,000 who will be going out amongst the population to reach other Jews for Jesus. It will likely cost them their lives to accept Christ. There will be multitudes who come to Christ.

There will be a few left here to enter the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. The earth will repopulate.

Again you fail to back that up with Word...I know what your church teaches....What does the WORD say?
Revelation 19:7


“Let us rejoice and be glad! Let us give him the glory! For the time has come for the wedding of the Lamb, and his Bride has prepared herself —





Luke 12:37


Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.





HOW HAS THE BRIDE MADE HERSELF READY?

1. She has come out of Babylon. (ARE YOU NO LONGER CHARMED BY WORDLY PURSUITS AND THE WORLD’S DELIGHTS? DO YOU NO LONGER STRIVE FOR MEN’S APPROVAL, BUT DELIGHT IN THE LORD?) The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and all who were slain on the earth. Revelation 18:23-24
2. She has changed her garments. (HAVE YOU COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND SEPARATED YOURSELF UNTO THE LORD? DO YOU WALK IN HOLINESS AND DO RIGHTEOUS ACTS IN HIS NAME?) Then Jacob said unto his household and to all that were with him, Put away the foreign gods that are among you and be clean and change your garments. Genesis 35:2/ I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for He hath clothed me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorned herself with her jewels. Isaiah 61:10/ And the Lord said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan, even the LORD who hath chosen Jerusalem, rebuke thee. Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and stood before the angel. And he answered and spoke unto those who stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. And I said, Let them set a clean turban upon his head. So they set a clean turban upon his head and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by. Zechariah 3:25
3. She has overcome. (HAVE YOU OVERCOME BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB-ACCEPTING CHRIST- AND THE WORD OF YOUR TESTIMONY-SPEAKING THE WORD OF GOD?) Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell in them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write for these words are true and faithful.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:2-8
4. She walks in joy, even giving the sacrifice of praise. (ARE YOU WALKING IN AN ATTITUDE OF GRATITUDE AND PRAISE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES?) The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness; the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride; the voice of them who shall say, Praise the Lord of hosts; for the Lord is good; for His mercy endureth forever; and of those who shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the Lord. Jeremiah 33:11
5. SHE LONGS FOR THE COMING ONE WHO SAID, “YOU HAVE RAVISHED MY HEART.”(ARE YOU LONGING FOR THE COMING OF JESUS?) And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take of the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17

The Bridal Company will make herself ready for the coming of the King. Do you want to be part of that company? Are you going to stand in this evil day when others fall? (A good example of this falling away is Demas who forsook Paul for wordly things. -2nd Timothy 4:10) James calls such people adulterers and adulteresses and says that friendship with the world is enmity with God and further states that to be a friend of the world is to be the enemy of God. (James 4:4)


Are His enemies your enemies? Frequently scripture refers to the believers as playing the harlot. It also makes much of agreement. Unfortunately, the church often loses its savor by walking in agreement with the world, much as a harlot. Instead of hating His enemies, we try to be politically correct and say anything goes.


What is in your heart? It does not matter how gifted you think you are, coarse conversations indicate that you are double-minded (James 1:9), and Madison Square Techniques indicate that you have to use a gimmick and thus have a form of godliness but deny the power (2nd Timothy 3:5). Again James says, “Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren these things ought not so to be.” (James 3:10) Jesus Himself said, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Are you looking for manifestations and the blessing of His hand, or are you seeking Him and His face, whether He gets you out of a hard place or not? Do you realize that, if He did nothing else for you ever, He has already done enough? Are you going to love Him with all your heart in the hard times as well as in times of prosperity?


What if real persecution comes, and you are not raptured away? That’s what happened to the Chinese Christians under Mao and the Communist. Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote to Timothy that “…all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” Will you be the one who stands? It is worth going through persecution to you to follow Christ? Are you willing to die? Are you hungry for the things of God? Do you really want to be part of that company, the Bridal Company, that is even now in the process of making herself ready?

 

[norapture]

1Thess 4 15 says this is the coming of the Lord
So will someone post the scriptures where Jesus says he is coming back before the tribulation.

 

[lecoope]

There are only 2 'comings' of Yeshua our Lord. The 1st already happened and the 2nd will happen at the end of Daniel's 70th week. The Rapture isn't a 'return' of our Lord because His feet never touch the Earth, rather, we meet Him in the sky. Some people consider His 2nd coming to be in 2 parts, the Rapture being the 1st part of Yeshua's return, but that's not technically correct when He doesn't set foot on the ground and couldn't be considered a 'return'. The Bible tells us that at His 2nd coming all eyes on Earth will see Him, but at the Rapture, only His body will see Jesus.

"There are only 2 "comings" of Yeshua..." WHO SAID there are only two? OF COURSE the rapture is a "coming:" Paul used that exact word! But agreed, He comes only to the air. But make no mistake, it is a coming, and will be His second coming. His coming as in Rev. 19 will be His third (3rd) coming. Why be afraid to count?

 

[lecoope]

1Thess 4 15 says this is the coming of the Lord
So will someone post the scriptures where Jesus says he is coming back before the tribulation.

No need: you just posted the address. However, the proof it is before the trib is found in chapter 5.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- every church I've gone to teaches God's Word -- and everyone of them teaches a pre-trib rapture.

You are trying to use Scriptures to suggest that there are super spiritual Christians who are the True 'Bride of Christ' and Less spiritual Christians will be 'left behind' to try to 'do better' in the future.

I think it's called a partial rapture theory. There Are people who can put on a pretty good outward Show for people and be hard as rocks inside. And there Are believers who Are really wonderfully close to God and do wonderful ministry for Him. And a person would be 'hard pressed' to find sinfulness in them. But a lot of sinfulness is inside of us where only God has access.

A person can be all smiley to his neighbor and be outwardly wonderful and innerly wish the guys house would burn down with him inside or be lusting after his wife. Or lusting after the guys car or whatever.

I 'hear' what you're saying. But I Also think you're going out on some limbs that aren't meant to go out on.

It's Almost like you're believing that IF a person is REALLY good enough Spiritual enough -- that somehow that will make us a Wonderful Bride of Christ. Kind of like the closer we can get to sinless perfection the better we are. And isn't that where Pridefulness can come in?!

You Have made some good points.

 

[Sue D.]

Will admit I goofed a bit -- when I started this post I said 'pre-trib rapture' and looking back at the tittle of the thread. That's what it's about . It's the Who that's in question. The Church -- Bride of Christ -- will be. And that That is what Scripture teaches and that it will take place Before the 7 yrs. of tribulation that are yet to come.

The Bride of Christ = the Church. All born-again believers. The 'being ready' part -- all those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit indwelling them. And once the Holy Spirit comes to indwell -- He won't leave us until we are safely with Jesus Christ for eternity.

So -- in reality -- I Didn't goof.

 

[lecoope]

Bendito -- every church I've gone to teaches God's Word -- and everyone of them teaches a pre-trib rapture.

You are trying to use Scriptures to suggest that there are super spiritual Christians who are the True 'Bride of Christ' and Less spiritual Christians will be 'left behind' to try to 'do better' in the future.

I think it's called a partial rapture theory. There Are people who can put on a pretty good outward Show for people and be hard as rocks inside. And there Are believers who Are really wonderfully close to God and do wonderful ministry for Him. And a person would be 'hard pressed' to find sinfulness in them. But a lot of sinfulness is inside of us where only God has access.

A person can be all smiley to his neighbor and be outwardly wonderful and innerly wish the guys house would burn down with him inside or be lusting after his wife. Or lusting after the guys car or whatever.

I 'hear' what you're saying. But I Also think you're going out on some limbs that aren't meant to go out on.

It's Almost like you're believing that IF a person is REALLY good enough Spiritual enough -- that somehow that will make us a Wonderful Bride of Christ. Kind of like the closer we can get to sinless perfection the better we are. And isn't that where Pridefulness can come in?!

You Have made some good points.

There is a verse I hope you will think about: look in Hebrews 9, the last verse. Think of a coin: it has two sides. A bible verse may declare something, but also teach something else if we consider the flip side. Notice in particular the last half of the verse.

Then consider: there are many churches in the world that really do not teach the born again experience: they may call themselves "Christian" and may think they are Christian, but have just never considered themselves "lost" so never did seek to be saved.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- every church I've gone to teaches God's Word -- and everyone of them teaches a pre-trib rapture.

You are trying to use Scriptures to suggest that there are super spiritual Christians who are the True 'Bride of Christ' and Less spiritual Christians will be 'left behind' to try to 'do better' in the future.

I think it's called a partial rapture theory. There Are people who can put on a pretty good outward Show for people and be hard as rocks inside. And there Are believers who Are really wonderfully close to God and do wonderful ministry for Him. And a person would be 'hard pressed' to find sinfulness in them. But a lot of sinfulness is inside of us where only God has access.

A person can be all smiley to his neighbor and be outwardly wonderful and innerly wish the guys house would burn down with him inside or be lusting after his wife. Or lusting after the guys car or whatever.

I 'hear' what you're saying. But I Also think you're going out on some limbs that aren't meant to go out on.

It's Almost like you're believing that IF a person is REALLY good enough Spiritual enough -- that somehow that will make us a Wonderful Bride of Christ. Kind of like the closer we can get to sinless perfection the better we are. And isn't that where Pridefulness can come in?!

You Have made some good points.

Sue All you're spouting is myth....You don't give any scripture at all to back up your assertions on this point....Mainly because there is none.... The Word says He is going to come the ones who are sincere and are looking for Him....Fire insurance does not exist

Nobody is talking about "super spiritual" Christians....Just real ones. There is no such thing as asking Jesus into your heart and then living YOUR way...
Why don't you get into the Word and dig for all the scriptures about the subject? You might learn something...You've been at me for months on this and never once have you given me a single scripture...

 

[Bendito]

Romans 3:24-26

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified (Set apart) in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.



2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.



2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.


Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:



Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:




It's IN Christ that all the good things happen....Not Christ in you, but you IN CHRIST.


Christ is NOT Jesus last name....It means 'The Anointed One and His anointing' He is the Messiah...We MUST walk and live in that anointing for any good thing to happen in our life...Salvation, healing, deliverance from the enemy....and to go with Him in the rapture. We walk in the same anointing that the Father anointed Jesus with. Or we miss it all.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- every so often I bow out for a while. Especially now -- again -- when you're saying that I'm 'spouting myth'.

I have Never suggested that a person who accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior is going to 'live their own way'.

When a person is a born-again believer, their lives Will show it. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit Will make a positive change in them.

but at the same time -- we are all still human beings and satan knows exactly how to trip us up. So some of 'us' will at times get going on our own steam and realize at some point that we need to get back on a steadier track. Any one who's experienced a sudden tragedy / loss Will go through some rough times. We get shook to the core.

There's not always a given Scripture to be given.

And, yes, you and I Do have a tendency to grapple on some subjects.

And there probably Are some people who are 'Christian' in name only. When we observe some 'believers' who don't exhibit Any fruits of the Spirit -- chances are they are Not really born again. But what Should we Do? We Should be concerned enough about them to get to know them -- hopefully be an encourager in Biblical living. And maybe take that person aside and share your concerns -- share 'your salvation experience' and ask them about Theirs.

 

[Sue D.]

There is a verse I hope you will think about: look in Hebrews 9, the last verse. Think of a coin: it has two sides. A bible verse may declare something, but also teach something else if we consider the flip side. Notice in particular the last half of the verse.

Then consider: there are many churches in the world that really do not teach the born again experience: they may call themselves "Christian" and may think they are Christian, but have just never considered themselves "lost" so never did seek to be saved.

Totally agree -- read the Hebrews 9 passage. And yes -- and people express their eagerly waiting in various ways.

And, yes, there are many churches like that. And, yes, those pastors will be held accountable for all the people in their congregations whom they'd led astray.
But they are not lost to God. Some of those people Will be led to other churches where they Will hear about their true spiritual condition.

They consider themselves to be Christian churches / people simply because they are not 'heathen'.

Because of their good works -- they don't see themselves as Needing salvation.

 

[Sue D.]

Romans 3:24-26

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified (Set apart) in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.



2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.



2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.


Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:



Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:




It's IN Christ that all the good things happen....Not Christ in you, but you IN CHRIST.


Christ is NOT Jesus last name....It means 'The Anointed One and His anointing' He is the Messiah...We MUST walk and live in that anointing for any good thing to happen in our life...Salvation, healing, deliverance from the enemy....and to go with Him in the rapture. We walk in the same anointing that the Father anointed Jesus with. Or we miss it all.

Thank you for sharing all that Scripture -- it's all true.

Only thing I'm questioning is your last comment. "We MUST walk and live in that anointing for any good thing to happen in our life .....salvation (yes), healing, deliverance from the enemy.

That very last part. One of the posters / you maybe / Big on healing and deliverance from the enemy. That people simply do not have enough faith these days or we'd all be healed.

I simply don't agree with some of your 'standing'.

 

[Bendito]

Thank you for sharing all that Scripture -- it's all true.

Only thing I'm questioning is your last comment. "We MUST walk and live in that anointing for any good thing to happen in our life .....salvation (yes), healing, deliverance from the enemy.

That very last part. One of the posters / you maybe / Big on healing and deliverance from the enemy. That people simply do not have enough faith these days or we'd all be healed.

I simply don't agree with some of your 'standing'.

If it is not in the Word, IT IS MYTH....False teaching

 

[Sue D.]

That which I believe IS in God's Word -- none of it is mythology.

And If I remember correctly -- You are big into Christian sci-fi. and some of That is based on mythology.

 

[Bendito]

That which I believe IS in God's Word -- none of it is mythology.

And If I remember correctly -- You are big into Christian sci-fi. and some of That is based on mythology.

Sue If you're teaching Word,,you should be able to show the references. So far you've refused to do that

 

[Sue D.]

Both you and King J. take most any scripture and put your own spin on it.

Aren't you the poster who feels that because a group that Jesus Christ designated to heal and be able to cast out demons / get bitten by snakes and not be injured -- that Every believer Should be able to do the same thing Today?