The Rapture

[Bendito]

The scriptures that people claim to be the rapture are weak at best. Like probably the more familiar scripture, 1 Thess 4:17, to meet the Lord in the air. Rapture is not even the subject here. You have to back up tp 1Thess 4:13 to get the subject being talked about and that subject is, I don’t want you to be ignorant where the dead are.

The free will that God has given to all His children except the Elect, will not be interfered with by God. And if the rapture was true it would interfere that free will. If the rapture was a true event, before anyone flies away they would have to be asked by name before leaving,

2 Peter 3:3-7
3 First, understand this: during the Last Days, scoffers will come, following their own desires 4 and asking, “Where is this promised ‘coming’ of his? For our fathers have died, and everything goes on just as it has since the beginning of creation.”

 

[Beresheet]

It comes from years of study,research, and reasoning. God may not spell it out word for word at times but He give us leads and evidence that will lead us to the answer. You are aware of satans rebellion and that one third sided and followed satan at that time. And there was one third of the children sided and fought long side God during satans rebellion. Do you think that God rewarded that one third that sided and fought long side Him during satans rebellion? Was their valor rewarded? I would hope that you would say that God did reward them. You would be right in your thinking if you can see that God ALWAYS rewards his children for obedience. How did God reward them? That one third that fought long side God during satans rebellion, their reward was that their souls/spirits would be elevated to the status of deathlessness and they would be known as the Elect/Anointed ones. They overcame by siding with God at satans rebellion. God has placed the Elect/Anointed ones up on this earth and uses them to have his prophecies to come about as prophesied. You might say God doesn’t need man to make His prophecies come true. Probably doesn’t, but God works through men to bring the prophecies to past. The Elect overcame and was rewarded after satans rebellion. They already proved themselves loyal and faithful at that time. By them siding with God at that time, God knows their true heart. God can trust them cause they are battle proven.

 

[Bendito]

It comes from years of study,research, and reasoning. God may not spell it out word for word at times but He give us leads and evidence that will lead us to the answer. You are aware of satans rebellion and that one third sided and followed satan at that time. And there was one third of the children sided and fought long side God during satans rebellion. Do you think that God rewarded that one third that sided and fought long side Him during satans rebellion? Was their valor rewarded? I would hope that you would say that God did reward them. You would be right in your thinking if you can see that God ALWAYS rewards his children for obedience. How did God reward them? That one third that fought long side God during satans rebellion, their reward was that their souls/spirits would be elevated to the status of deathlessness and they would be known as the Elect/Anointed ones. They overcame by siding with God at satans rebellion. God has placed the Elect/Anointed ones up on this earth and uses them to have his prophecies to come about as prophesied. You might say God doesn’t need man to make His prophecies come true. Probably doesn’t, but God works through men to bring the prophecies to past. The Elect overcame and was rewarded after satans rebellion. They already proved themselves loyal and faithful at that time. By them siding with God at that time, God knows their true heart. God can trust them cause they are battle proven.

As I've told you before, you need Word, not Bullinger who only got part of his teaching right. You mentioned years of study, research, and reasoning...Nowhere did you mention leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach you.. Which is far more important than those three.

 

[Beresheet]

If the rapture was true, everyone that was thinking about flying away would have to be asked , each and everyone, do they want to fly away, yes or no. Otherwise their free will would be interfered with. You can just say I believe in the rapture and fly away if it occurs. Each and everyone will have to be asked separately, if they want to go.

No one has ever given an explanation off this site why God in the book of Ezekiel 13:20, says He is against those who teach His people to fly to show them a different way of salvation. God says He will tear them from their arms and let them go.

 

[Bendito]

If the rapture was true, everyone that was thinking about flying away would have to be asked , each and everyone, do they want to fly away, yes or no. Otherwise their free will would be interfered with. You can just say I believe in the rapture and fly away if it occurs. Each and everyone will have to be asked separately, if they want to go.

No one has ever given an explanation off this site why God in the book of Ezekiel 13:20, says He is against those who teach His people to fly to show them a different way of salvation. God says He will tear them from their arms and let them go.

The trouble with sharing half truths is knowing which half is right.

 

[Beresheet]

I never said I didn’t call upon the Holy Spirit for help. If you can only get it from the Holy Spirit you wouldn’t need the holy bible.

 

[Bendito]

I never said I didn’t call upon the Holy Spirit for help. If you can only get it from the Holy Spirit you wouldn’t need the holy bible.

Yes well....There is a lot in the Bible that you can only understand by the Holy Spirit...Most in fact

 

[Beresheet]

Didn’t think you would have an explanation for Ezekiel 13:20.

 

[Bendito]

Didn’t think you would have an explanation for Ezekiel 13:20.

What? This scripture has nothing to do with the rapture...It's about witchcraft, and those who use it.

 

[Sue D.]

As I've told you before, you need Word, not Bullinger who only got part of his teaching right. You mentioned years of study, research, and reasoning...Nowhere did you mention leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach you.. Which is far more important than those three.

If the rapture was true, everyone that was thinking about flying away would have to be asked , each and everyone, do they want to fly away, yes or no. Otherwise their free will would be interfered with. You can just say I believe in the rapture and fly away if it occurs. Each and everyone will have to be asked separately, if they want to go.

No one has ever given an explanation off this site why God in the book of Ezekiel 13:20, says He is against those who teach His people to fly to show them a different way of salvation. God says He will tear them from their arms and let them go.

Beresheet -- the only one's raptured up will be those in which the Holy Spirit indwells -- it's not a question of born-again believers either dead or alive at that time Choosing to be taken up.
Scripture says that it will happen in a twinkling of an eye. There will be no warning. But - as these days get worse and worse - and they Will -- 'we' will be anticipating being taken up to meet Jesus Christ in the air.

Also --one of the posts talked about 1/3 of the angels rebelling -- they were thrown out of heaven and down here to earth. Known as the demonic part of the spirit world. The rest of the spirit world consists of angels going back and forth. Ministering in various ways. That post is # 462 -- your beliefs regarding the elect comes from another belief system.

 

[Beresheet]

Once one is familiar with the things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world a lot of things come very clear in their understanding. Matt 13:35. Not very many know the secret that Christ was speaking of. This secret is woven in and out through out the Bible but very few ever see it. It is written, haven’t you read.

 

[exsurfbum]

Speaking only for myself...I read the Word and believe what it says as it says it....I don't spin it....

But you just spun a whole make believe story between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

If the rapture was true, everyone that was thinking about flying away would have to be asked , each and everyone, do they want to fly away, yes or no. Otherwise their free will would be interfered with. You can just say I believe in the rapture and fly away if it occurs. Each and everyone will have to be asked separately, if they want to go.

No one has ever given an explanation off this site why God in the book of Ezekiel 13:20, says He is against those who teach His people to fly to show them a different way of salvation. God says He will tear them from their arms and let them go.

The first word in verse 20 says "therefore", so obviously the reason is in the verses before it. If you read it in context, you'll see it

 

[Bendito]

But you just spun a whole make believe story between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

The first word in verse 20 says "therefore", so obviously the reason is in the verses before it. If you read it in context, you'll see it

I did not spin anything....You already said you don't believe in the Gap. Anything referring to Gap would therefore be a spin to you. Unbelief is a problem among Christians....So who are you talking to in the second half of your post?

 

[exsurfbum]

I did not spin anything....You already said you don't believe in the Gap. Anything referring to Gap would therefore be a spin to you. Unbelief is a problem among Christians....So who are you talking to in the second half of your post?

Umm... huh? You DID spin something... out of nothing even -- I just checked, and there is nothing between verse 1 and verse 2 in the first chapter of Genesis, yet you said that there were advanced civilizations on this Earth before Adam, and you got that from what's between verse 1 and 2 in Genesis.

 

[exsurfbum]

I did not spin anything....You already said you don't believe in the Gap. Anything referring to Gap would therefore be a spin to you. Unbelief is a problem among Christians....So who are you talking to in the second half of your post?

The second half of my post was to Beresheet (sp?) I quoted what I was replying to, I don't know how the two responses got posted in one post -- I did the two separately.

 

[Sue D.]

Once one is familiar with the things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world a lot of things come very clear in their understanding. Matt 13:35. Not very many know the secret that Christ was speaking of. This secret is woven in and out through out the Bible but very few ever see it. It is written, haven’t you read.

Look at Ephesians 3:3 - 6 - 8 "how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly.... When you read this, you can perceive my insight in to the mystery of Christ.
which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. vs 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the Gospel.

 

[exsurfbum]

If the rapture was true, everyone that was thinking about flying away would have to be asked , each and everyone, do they want to fly away, yes or no. Otherwise their free will would be interfered with. You can just say I believe in the rapture and fly away if it occurs. Each and everyone will have to be asked separately, if they want to go.

A true Christian would not want to be here (I know I don't), so the Lord rescuing us from this world would be a total blessing. He wouldn't have to ask us. The meaning of the word 'harpatzo', Greek for the Rapture, is the same thing as if you saw a child playing in the street when a bus was headed toward him and you grab him out of the way and keep him safe. A Christian's 'free will' will line up with the Lord's when the time comes, and there'll be no question about whether or not he'll want to go. You can't be a Christian and deny a rapture -- Paul clearly states there is one.

 

[Bill]

Will admit I goofed a bit -- when I started this post I said 'pre-trib rapture' and looking back at the tittle of the thread. That's what it's about . It's the Who that's in question. The Church -- Bride of Christ -- will be. And that That is what Scripture teaches and that it will take place Before the 7 yrs. of tribulation that are yet to come.

The Bride of Christ = the Church. All born-again believers. The 'being ready' part -- all those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit indwelling them. And once the Holy Spirit comes to indwell -- He won't leave us until we are safely with Jesus Christ for eternity.

So -- in reality -- I Didn't goof. :smile:

My friend. There will be no rapture before the tribulation, i can attest to that. But you and all who have been taught this will never believe what i or anyone else has to say. I dont hold that against you. But because of this you will not be prepared for the antiChrist, either

 

[Sue D.]

Bill - just curious as to How you can 'attest' to your saying that there will be no rapture before the tribulation? Unless you feel that we are presently experiencing the 7 yrs. of tribulation.

thank you for not holding our view against us.

Because there Is Biblical basis For our view of pre-trib rapture.

Well -- it would be Better for people to be prepared Spiritually for their personal deaths and/ or the rapture - which ever comes 1st. No one except God , Himself, knows when it's time for each one of us to breathe our last breaths. My husband died suddenly from a cerebral hemmorage seven months ago. My mother died two years ago.

We are studying this in Bible study. Matthew 24 -- warnings of the rapture -- what the world will be like. Pastor was commenting that there really is nothing left To be happening before Jesus Comes to get all born-again believers up and out of here.

The antichrist will be in power whether or not anyone is prepared for him.

Apparently you believe that all of Daniel 9 has already been fulfilled. Meaning the 70 weeks of Daniel. That the last 'week' has already happened. But there are no indications of That being the case. Unless you're a mid-trib rapture person. But Who is rising to world power. There Are several Potentials -- several powers seem to be heading that way quickly.

But Why would believers need to be feeling / experiencing the wrath of God. We've already accepted Him as Lord and Savior. Everything in book of Revelation Will take place. And we Are experiencing more severe weather all over this country. But nothing like what Will Be coming.

 

[Hekuran]

You can't be a Christian and deny a rapture -- Paul clearly states there is one.

I'm a Christian and don't believe that there will be a rapture. I've concluded it's a doctrine borne of a misunderstanding of a few key bible passages.