The Rapture

[Bendito]

Both you and King J. take most any scripture and put your own spin on it.

Aren't you the poster who feels that because a group that Jesus Christ designated to heal and be able to cast out demons / get bitten by snakes and not be injured -- that Every believer Should be able to do the same thing Today?

Speaking only for myself...I read the Word and believe what it says as it says it....I don't spin it....And Yes...If the Word says we are healed, and we can minister healing and every Christian can do it...That's the way it is....Demons also have NO CHOICE but to obey us...If you will believe God before anyone, anything else. The problem is...Its easier to believe a lie (which comes from the devil) than it is to believe the truth. Don't ask the why of that.
BTW Sue...Why is it you do not believe that?

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- I was just looking back at posts from another thread that we'd been on --"Easter time -- Why were there no spectators at the resurrection of Jesus..... posts 39 and 41 in particular.

The subject of celebrating Easter -- it's pagan origins with worshipping a pagan 'god'. I'd been Trying to share that just because believers call it Easter Sunday -- does Not indicate they are worshiping some pagan 'god'. You were grouping Resurrection Sunday sunrise services along with easter bunny's and other things that are done that really don't hurt anything. except their Pagan origins. That 'we' Should be satisfied with the Old Testament Feasts.

That's one reason why it's pointless at times to try to discuss things with you.

 

[Sue D.]

Speaking only for myself...I read the Word and believe what it says as it says it....I don't spin it....And Yes...If the Word says we are healed, and we can minister healing and every Christian can do it...That's the way it is....Demons also have NO CHOICE but to obey us...If you will believe God before anyone, anything else. The problem is...Its easier to believe a lie (which comes from the devil) than it is to believe the truth. Don't ask the why of that.
BTW Sue...Why is it you do not believe that?

Scripture Also gives specifics -- if a person wants to follow that procedure For healing. Anointing with oil -- confess your sins one to another, etc. I just located That passage.
James 5:16 -- context is vs 12 - 18 vs 14-16 "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church,and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him p. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. vs 16 "Therefore, confess you sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed."

There was a family that Did request a 'faith healing time' for their Dad who was diagnosed with cancer which would have been fatal and apparently he Was healed. A while after that, the man himself gave a brief testimony to that affect. We Do hear of people's cancers going into remission. Isn't that God healing them? Sometimes that healing lasts 'forever' and sometimes - after months or years -- the cancer comes back even More powerful and the person is dead very quickly. And there are Also those who go from one kind of cancer to another and yet another.

Just relocated the passage about healing the sick, etc. Matthew 10 : 5 - 15 is the context. Jesus chose His 12 disciples and gives them authority vs 6 "but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go , saying "The kingdom of heaven is at hand. ....... vs 8 "you received without pay , give with out pay. " the passage continues on telling them exactly what to do where to go. The context of That is not indicating what You are suggesting for Now days.

That passage talks about in vs 7 to cleanse lepers , cast out demons. And I Do recall the conversation we had concerning that.

That applied to That particular circumstance and nothing more.



And of Course that passage is in the Book , but we Also have to notice who is being spoken To.

We are Also warned to Not mess with the demonic world. Any mention in Scripture / the Book/ having to do with demons and people -- it is Always negative -- people are acting in uncontrollable ways. And we've had discussion about That, Also.

In Scripture -- the demons recognized Jesus and feared Him. They asked to be put into a herd of pigs and the pigs went wild and drowned. The owner was very upset because the hogs/ pigs were his income.

 

[Bendito]

Scripture Also gives specifics -- if a person wants to follow that procedure For healing. Anointing with oil -- confess your sins one to another, etc. I just located That passage.
James 5:16 -- context is vs 12 - 18 vs 14-16 "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church,and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him p. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. vs 16 "Therefore, confess you sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed."

There was a family that Did request a 'faith healing time' for their Dad who was diagnosed with cancer which would have been fatal and apparently he Was healed. A while after that, the man himself gave a brief testimony to that affect. We Do hear of people's cancers going into remission. Isn't that God healing them? Sometimes that healing lasts 'forever' and sometimes - after months or years -- the cancer comes back even More powerful and the person is dead very quickly. And there are Also those who go from one kind of cancer to another and yet another.

Just relocated the passage about healing the sick, etc. Matthew 10 : 5 - 15 is the context. Jesus chose His 12 disciples and gives them authority vs 6 "but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go , saying "The kingdom of heaven is at hand. ....... vs 8 "you received without pay , give with out pay. " the passage continues on telling them exactly what to do where to go. The context of That is not indicating what You are suggesting for Now days.

That passage talks about in vs 7 to cleanse lepers , cast out demons. And I Do recall the conversation we had concerning that.

That applied to That particular circumstance and nothing more.



And of Course that passage is in the Book , but we Also have to notice who is being spoken To.

We are Also warned to Not mess with the demonic world. Any mention in Scripture / the Book/ having to do with demons and people -- it is Always negative -- people are acting in uncontrollable ways. And we've had discussion about That, Also.

In Scripture -- the demons recognized Jesus and feared Him. They asked to be put into a herd of pigs and the pigs went wild and drowned. The owner was very upset because the hogs/ pigs were his income.

Well that explains why you don't believe the Word....You, or your church chopped it up, processed it and pushed it into a mould like a fat sausage.....Jesus spoke all that to His disciples....We are His disciples as well....But you don't believe what's written, so really Sue....I'm wasting my time.

 

[Sue D.]

Well that explains why you don't believe the Word....You, or your church chopped it up, processed it and pushed it into a mould like a fat sausage.....Jesus spoke all that to His disciples....We are His disciples as well....But you don't believe what's written, so really Sue....I'm wasting my time.

Bendito -- I truly Resent your comments.

Jesus was speaking to the original 12 that He chose by name. He didn't choose 10 or 200 and He didn't say 'to all My followers now and forever' which He could just as easily have done.

Now we Also have the great commission -- Matthew 28:16 - 18 " Go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, "

It's getting Late -- I'm going to bed.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- I truly Resent your comments.

Jesus was speaking to the original 12 that He chose by name. He didn't choose 10 or 200 and He didn't say 'to all My followers now and forever' which He could just as easily have done.

Now we Also have the great commission -- Matthew 28:16 - 18 " Go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit, "

It's getting Late -- I'm going to bed.

Well Sue....I am really sorry you feel offended....I posted a thread about Apostasy being rife in the church, and basically got people angry at me. I post what the Word says...and says clearly, and people get angry...Time after time after time Christians getting angry when I share the WORD.....Truly Sue...It's more satisfying to share Word with non-Christians. Generally, they accept it far more readily than those who call themselves Christians. I mean...I'm really beginning to get discouraged with those who call themselves by the name of Jesus....not that Christ is Jesus last name...They generally do not want the truth...They only want to hear that it's all right to believe anything...It's all right to do anything.....
I'm seriously considering leaving this Talk Jesus. No doubt you would like that...More peace for you...You could share your doctrines to your heart's content, but to what result?

I've never been good at handling discussions with people. As a word weaver, my thoughts are direct, my opinions strong. As a word weaver I speak directly and typical of a word weaver, if you have a problem with what I say, it's your problem, not mine.....
So, Sue, what do you suggest....Should I leave this group? Or can you handle some truth?

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- it's 1:15 am and I'm awake -- since Forums are by nature people sharing and discussing various topics of Biblical nature, why do you join them?! Since you've just stated that you're not good at handling discussions with other people.

You've used the term word 'weaver' -- a person who 'weaves' blends yarns together. Or when a woman puts her hair in a French braid -- she's dividing her hair into several sections and weaving those sections together and ties them together at the end to keep all of it together.

So I don't see how your description of 'weaving' fits with 'words'. Depending on what words are being 'weaved/ woven' together -- a person Can come up with something making lots of sense or possibly a mess. The results are the responsibility of the 'weaver'. After all, they Are his words. And if he's taking Other people's words, then he needs to be Very Careful -- because words on their own don't have any real meaning. It's only when used in a particular context that they Do have a particular meaning. As an example -- the words "two, to, too" they all sound the same but have different spellings and thus different meanings -- context is necessary when they are being heard. And used by themselves, are Also meaningless.

Same thing with Scripture -- an example -- the word 'baptize / baptism' the context is essential. Who, what, where, when, how.
Same with a verse -- context. Same questions.
A book of the Bible -- context.

So -- as the 'weaver' that's up to you. What are the results of Your 'weaving'. What are You coming up with in the process of Your 'weaving'?

It's not My decision / responsibility / as to Your staying or leaving. How do You react to others who disagree with the results of Your 'weaving'.

Actually - we're Both free to leave or stay. No one is making either of us be 'here'.

 

[Sue D.]

And sometimes a person's intentions are okay -- but the Way they are presenting is problematic.

"it's not what you say, it's How you're saying it". Comes to mind.

 

[Dave M]

.I posted a thread about Apostasy being rife in the church, and basically got people angry at me

yet you are always the first to defend the tv preachers, and the first to Judge the mainstream churches, seems like a double standard to me

 

[Dave M]

Well that explains why you don't believe the Word....You, or your church chopped it up, processed it and pushed it into a mould like a fat sausage.....Jesus spoke all that to His disciples....We are His disciples as well....But you don't believe what's written, so really Sue....I'm wasting my time.

this is vile and contempt talk you owe someone an apology , no brother in Christ with the slightest bit of maturity speaks to another believer in this way, only one that is proud speaks this way.

 

[Bendito]

yet you are always the first to defend the tv preachers, and the first to Judge the mainstream churches, seems like a double standard to me

Dave, I have not defended anyone. I've warned people about attacking those TV preachers...I've shown where God said not to "touch not mine anointed" Meaning don't attack them....Yet some of us find it good to ignore God's command here to attack those he has called....And how is it good to try to correct those preachers when you are full of junk yourself? Matthew 7:3-5
3 Why do you see the splinter in your brother’s eye but not notice the log in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the splinter out of your eye,’ when you have the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First, take the log out of your own eye; then you will see clearly, so that you can remove the splinter from your brother’s eye!

Where do Christians get off ignoring God's Word while trying to make themselves look so righteous? Self righteous maybe...
Dave, as for me, if I have a criticism of anyone, I will say it to his face. Unlike many here. If you and I were sitting face to face over coffee, I would say the same things to you then, as you are reading right now. No hiding...I do not like the mainstream churches because they are infested with apostasy. There are, even witches working right in the assemblies of most large churches, and you WILL learn most doctrines of demons there...I kid you not. I know you will find this offensive and I'm sorry about that. But Satan won't tell you, That leaves Christians to tell you.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- maybe it's the geographical area in which you live -- but here in Texas -- even in large churches -- I really don't know Where you get your idea that there are witches right in the assemblies of most large churches. There are Lots of good , Bible-teaching churches still around.

What is Your concept of apostasy -- I suspect it means anyone or any group who disagrees with your 'weaving' of Scripture.

Your concept of who's going to be taken up in the rapture is another problematic area. All born-again believers Will be raptured up by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ shed His blood for All -- but it has to be accepted by the individual. God sees us through the blood of Jesus Christ.

You Do have good intentions -- but, really, WHERE do you get your information about most Anything. And That goes back to your 'weaving' Scripture together. Well , and you believe there is a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 2. And That -- If taken as Fact -- opens up a person to all sorts of speculations about most Everything.

 

[Bendito]

this is vile and contempt talk you owe someone an apology , no brother in Christ with the slightest bit of maturity speaks to another believer in this way, only one that is proud speaks this way.

Dave I'm sorry that you got offended over this. There IS a time and place even for a direct statement like I gave. I'm tired of all the hypocricy in the mainstream churches...People do NOT want Word, as I said in another post...They want someone to pat their head and tell them that its all good (as I said in another post) I sat in many many churches where the preacher spoke doctrines taught by demons while standing on the pedestal that most churches erect under their preaches feet...They soak up every word he speaks and never, I said NEVER go to the Word to check that he is right. So those docrines taught by demons become canon.
If someone points that out it is offensive? Of course, you would find it offensive, but you do have to face reality sooner or later. Preferably sooner. That preacher is only a man Dave. He's no different from you. In fact it could be you....What would happen if you were the pastor, You look down and see that pedestal under you...Nobody challenges anything you teach, they just sit there looking up at you, all wide-eyed, mouths agape. almost worshiping you. (Don't say that doesn't happen, I've seen too much of it). At that point, Dave, your biggest problem is not difficult to see. Pride comes on the scene, and you have a fight on your hands. You get into the Word to ready your next sermon and you misunderstand one small phrase...ending up way off the beam when your sermon is complete, Then Sunday morning you stand up on your pedestal and deliver an oratory marvel, which your admirers soak up and repeat later to others.....
That phrase you misunderstood....The understanding you got was not from the Holy Spirit but from a demon (doctrines of demons) Pride then doctrines of demons...It does not take long before the entire church, from the last to walk through the door to the pastor himself, is walking in deception. And the problem with deception, Dave, is that you don't know that you are deceived! Then somebody points it out to you, and you get all defensive and are offended. Aren't you glad you're not a preacher?
So my friend, If you do get offended, check it out, before you chuck out the one who is telling you.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- maybe it's the geographical area in which you live -- but here in Texas -- even in large churches -- I really don't know Where you get your idea that there are witches right in the assemblies of most large churches. There are Lots of good , Bible-teaching churches still around.

What is Your concept of apostasy -- I suspect it means anyone or any group who disagrees with your 'weaving' of Scripture.

Your concept of who's going to be taken up in the rapture is another problematic area. All born-again believers Will be raptured up by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ shed His blood for All -- but it has to be accepted by the individual. God sees us through the blood of Jesus Christ.

You Do have good intentions -- but, really, WHERE do you get your information about most Anything. And That goes back to your 'weaving' Scripture together. Well , and you believe there is a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 2. And That -- If taken as Fact -- opens up a person to all sorts of speculations about most Everything.

You accuse me of weaving scripture together....I look at all the scriptures on a subject and see the whole picture. While others here will take a single verse or maybe two verses and build their doctrine on it...With only one or two puzzle pieces, they think they know the entire picture?
Come on Sue. Stop looking for old hags with warts and tall pointy hats....What does a witch look like? Don't know? No wonder you haven't seen them.

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- look back at your own post #446 -- you referred to yourself as a 'word weaver'. And expounded on it yourself.

I don't see 'boogymen' around every corner.

do You know what a witch or warlock looks like? How would You recognize one?

This is getting So far off topic.

There Are churches made up Of them in this country. A while back on another Forum -- there was a guy who said that in the city he lived in there was a Church of Satan down the street from a Baptist church. Which means they have their own church.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- look back at your own post #446 -- you referred to yourself as a 'word weaver'. And expounded on it yourself.

I don't see 'boogymen' around every corner.

do You know what a witch or warlock looks like? How would You recognize one?

This is getting So far off topic.

There Are churches made up Of them in this country. A while back on another Forum -- there was a guy who said that in the city he lived in there was a Church of Satan down the street from a Baptist church. Which means they have their own church.

Whatever.....Believe what you want....I don't come here to fight with you.

 

[Beresheet]

The scriptures that people claim to be the rapture are weak at best. Like probably the more familiar scripture, 1 Thess 4:17, to meet the Lord in the air. Rapture is not even the subject here. You have to back up tp 1Thess 4:13 to get the subject being talked about and that subject is, I don’t want you to be ignorant where the dead are.

The free will that God has given to all His children except the Elect, will not be interfered with by God. And if the rapture was true it would interfere that free will. If the rapture was a true event, before anyone flies away they would have to be asked by name before leaving,

 

[Sue D.]

Dave I'm sorry that you got offended over this. There IS a time and place even for a direct statement like I gave. I'm tired of all the hypocricy in the mainstream churches...People do NOT want Word, as I said in another post...They want someone to pat their head and tell them that its all good (as I said in another post) I sat in many many churches where the preacher spoke doctrines taught by demons while standing on the pedestal that most churches erect under their preaches feet...They soak up every word he speaks and never, I said NEVER go to the Word to check that he is right. So those docrines taught by demons become canon.
If someone points that out it is offensive? Of course, you would find it offensive, but you do have to face reality sooner or later. Preferably sooner. That preacher is only a man Dave. He's no different from you. In fact it could be you....What would happen if you were the pastor, You look down and see that pedestal under you...Nobody challenges anything you teach, they just sit there looking up at you, all wide-eyed, mouths agape. almost worshiping you. (Don't say that doesn't happen, I've seen too much of it). At that point, Dave, your biggest problem is not difficult to see. Pride comes on the scene, and you have a fight on your hands. You get into the Word to ready your next sermon and you misunderstand one small phrase...ending up way off the beam when your sermon is complete, Then Sunday morning you stand up on your pedestal and deliver an oratory marvel, which your admirers soak up and repeat later to others.....
That phrase you misunderstood....The understanding you got was not from the Holy Spirit but from a demon (doctrines of demons) Pride then doctrines of demons...It does not take long before the entire church, from the last to walk through the door to the pastor himself, is walking in deception. And the problem with deception, Dave, is that you don't know that you are deceived! Then somebody points it out to you, and you get all defensive and are offended. Aren't you glad you're not a preacher?
So my friend, If you do get offended, check it out, before you chuck out the one who is telling you.

I'll respond to this -- utterly disgusting -- and you know Why I feel that way. Because my brother-in-law was a pastor / missions for 40 years. He helped establish three churches in Brazil. and My late husband was also a pastor for 5 yrs. And they also had a camp ministry and took in street kids.

You know Why pastors are generally up on a platform preaching / teaching God's Word.. Because that position is an especially honorable position. And they can see how their congregation is reacting to / responding to that which is being shared / taught. Eye contact is important. They can see if what's being presented from God's Word is being understood.

No pastor worth his 'salt' does sermon prep on his own. He's teaching God's Word as the Holy Spirit is guiding him. He searches out Scripture -- that is his calling. He cares about the souls of his congregation.

The pulpit is Holy Ground. It is Not to be abused.

And, unfortunately there Are many churches that Don't teach Bible. God is going to hold them Extra accountable for those they lead astray. But people Also have the Holy Spirit guiding Them as to what church to attend. And some people really don't care about church.

Your portrayal of the pastorate -- well -- disgusting. And now you owe More apologies.

 

[Beresheet]

Bendito, when God said touch not my anointed, God was not talking about anyone who has free will. Those with free will are not a anointed one. The anointed are the Elect. They are a special group of Gods children. They have already been justified or have been judged by God Almighty in the first world age after Satan’s rebellion or over throw. The Elect/anointed ones are the one third of Gods children that fought with God during Satans rebellion.

 

[Sue D.]

The scriptures that people claim to be the rapture are weak at best. Like probably the more familiar scripture, 1 Thess 4:17, to meet the Lord in the air. Rapture is not even the subject here. You have to back up tp 1Thess 4:13 to get the subject being talked about and that subject is, I don’t want you to be ignorant where the dead are.

The free will that God has given to all His children except the Elect, will not be interfered with by God. And if the rapture was true it would interfere that free will. If the rapture was a true event, before anyone flies away they would have to be asked by name before leaving,

Try combining the previous verses with that. vs 16 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

What else Would you call that.

@Beresheet -- I was just reading your newest post -- where do you get Your information from? Referring post 459. ?????