The Rapture

[Sue D.]

What Else Are they doing? What do You think that passage is saying?

That is what the 7 yrs. of tribulation are For --God giving the previously non-believing Jews their second chance to accept Him as their Promised Messiah. And also possibly anyone Else who had not heard -- too young to understand at the time of the rapture. Because at That time in history -- we're told that a great delusion will come to those who Had previously heard but chose to Not accept Christ. Those people will Not have a 2nd chance. Only God's chosen people -- the Jews , Children of Israel.

The Holy Spirit will not be here during those 7 yrs. He is here in born-again believers -- when they 'we' are up and out of here -- people will be left on their own. As smaller kids Do grow up and read and hear about Jesus Christ -- it Will be possible to accept Him. Just very hard and they will likely be martyrs.

It was heard and taught from Scripture.

 

[Bill]

Sue why does everyone think only the 144 thousand are sealed, when John said plainly that after this he seen a number no man could number
This is the separation of the two covenants

The 144000 that are sealed are the ones God has specifically chosen to combat the effect of the anti-Christ.

In the scripture they are called Jews, but if you read Pauls writings you will see where it is written "a true Jew is one whose heart is circumsized" . This shows that any Christian can be one of those "Jews"

 

[Bill]

Bill -- actually Jesus ascended back up to heaven in the beginning of the book of Acts. The Holy Spirit indwells each believer and in That respect a believer is never 'alone'. Which is why Jesus Christ had to go back up to the Father. Because He, as a human being, could only be one place at a time. He could Not be with each believer to teach / encourage them. But the Holy Spirit's coming Could enable the Holy Spirit part of the trinity To be with each believer all the time.
If, as you say, Jesus is with us every day, then How could we meet Him in the sky at His return.

In the Acts passage, an angel tells the disciples that He , Jesus Christ Would be returning in the future.

Sue, Jesus is God, He can do what He wants. You keep putting God in a logical box.

 

[Bill]

Sue can you show where scripture says the 144 thousand are evangelizing,

cause I believe is something you heard or was taught, but not one scripture says they will be evangelizing

 

[SleepyEdwin]

First of all they're not Jews only, they're members of the 12 Tribes of Israel, but it's curious to note that Dan and Ephraim don't show up in the list. Revelations 14 talks about the 144000 singing a new song, doing such a thing could be considered some form of preaching, don't you think?

 

[Dave M]

, Jesus is God, He can do what He wants. You keep putting God in a logical box.

Scripture proves Jesus does not do what he wants, as you suggest, but does only what the will of the father is. Apparently to my little understanding Jesus has a will and he ignores it and only does the will of his father.

John 5:30
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

 

[exsurfbum]

I'm a Christian and don't believe that there will be a rapture. I've concluded it's a doctrine borne of a misunderstanding of a few key bible passages.

So what do you think Paul meant in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 when he said that "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."?

 

[exsurfbum]

Not one of those talks about going to heaven. You are stupid enough to say I'm promoting a doctrine of demons without having a scrap of evidence to back it up. I'm fed up reading your arrogant bullying approach to debate. Is this the best you've got?

Do you believe the Lord is in Heaven? If so, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." means that we will be with the Lord in Heaven forever

 

[exsurfbum]

Scripture proves Jesus does not do what he wants, as you suggest, but does only what the will of the father is. Apparently to my little understanding Jesus has a will and he ignores it and only does the will of his father.

John 5:30
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Dave, the Father God and Jesus are One and the same, they have the same will, along with the Holy Spirit, they are the trinity and act as One.

 

[Sue D.]

@exsurfbum -- while Jesus Christ was on this earth -- people questioned Who He was. He was here to point 'us' to His Father in heaven.

He , Jesus Christ was crucified Because He said that He and His Father are One. Jesus Christ Was God incarnate -- here in the flesh.

The Holy Spirit part of the trinity is the part that comes to indwell each believer upon their salvation.

They all three comprise the Tri-unity of the Godhead.

Without all three working together, we would not have salvation.

It was the Holy Spirit who impregnated Mary in the first place.

And Jesus Christ Did the will of the Father by going to the cross -- He Could have called the angels to destroy those who tried to crucify Him -- He already knew the pain and suffering He would endure -- but He was Willing to submit to the will of the Father in heaven. As 'Dave M." pointed out in his post #526.

Jesus Did all that He did while in this world to show mankind that there's more to life than just 'me' and the 'here and now'. That there's indeed something / someone more / bigger than you and I.

 

[Jellani]

Unhealthy discussions fighting one another. Not healthy for new believers Reading long time christians fighting one another. If i may suggest. You must talk over this with a cold coffee in front to chill up

Ps. You are confusing new believers. Please consider them.

Shalom!

 

[exsurfbum]

@exsurfbum -- while Jesus Christ was on this earth -- people questioned Who He was. He was here to point 'us' to His Father in heaven.

He , Jesus Christ was crucified Because He said that He and His Father are One. Jesus Christ Was God incarnate -- here in the flesh.

The Holy Spirit part of the trinity is the part that comes to indwell each believer upon their salvation.

They all three comprise the Tri-unity of the Godhead.

Without all three working together, we would not have salvation.

It was the Holy Spirit who impregnated Mary in the first place.

And Jesus Christ Did the will of the Father by going to the cross -- He Could have called the angels to destroy those who tried to crucify Him -- He already knew the pain and suffering He would endure -- but He was Willing to submit to the will of the Father in heaven. As 'Dave M." pointed out in his post #526.

Jesus Did all that He did while in this world to show mankind that there's more to life than just 'me' and the 'here and now'. That there's indeed something / someone more / bigger than you and I.

Amen

 

[Jellani]

@Bendito and @Hekuran

Both of you are restricted from posting in this thread again. Take a break and learn from Jesus. Don't treat each other in a way you wouldn't treat each other in the presence of Christ. Simple as that. I'm not here to waste my time teaching grown adults how to behave towards each other on an online Christian forum. That's nonsense.

This is where we must be vigilant and careful on how the enemy works. Disuniting Body of Christ. Sometimes its not about how knowledgeable we are of those verses ( i am not disregarding that we need to study it ) but much of that, the knowledge that we have must be applied. I think that’s what matters.

I have noticed that a lot of unbelievers refused to come to Christ not because they do not believe in Christ but because of those believers who says that they believed but their lives dont show it.

My prayer is (this includes myself- still a working in progress ) May we much more than we say and study the Word, may we be a doer of it.

 

[Bill]

Dave, the Father God and Jesus are One and the same, they have the same will, along with the Holy Spirit, they are the trinity and act as One.

Yes, the Trinity. But they are also individual. My best description would be like a candle. Jesus, the wax, is always talking of the Father, of the Father we only know a little. And the Holy Spirit, as the fire. Oh i forgot, the wick is the Father.

The Father told me once, the most important thing i had to learn was to recognize God's peace in my heart.

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- wax melts. It doesn't retain it's shape.

How about 'this' -- an egg. The outer shell is the Godhead. Inside are the yoke and white. And there is also the inner lining. Each part of that egg has a distinct job -- each work Together to create a new chick -- or in Scriptural application. They work together to produce salvation for the individual.

A person Will have peace in their heart as a direct result of accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. A person Will know God's peace within them.

 

[norapture]

What Else Are they doing? What do You think that passage is saying?

That is what the 7 yrs. of tribulation are For --God giving the previously non-believing Jews their second chance to accept Him as their Promised Messiah. And also possibly anyone Else who had not heard -- too young to understand at the time of the rapture. Because at That time in history -- we're told that a great delusion will come to those who Had previously heard but chose to Not accept Christ. Those people will Not have a 2nd chance. Only God's chosen people -- the Jews , Children of Israel.

The Holy Spirit will not be here during those 7 yrs. He is here in born-again believers -- when they 'we' are up and out of here -- people will be left on their own. As smaller kids Do grow up and read and hear about Jesus Christ -- it Will be possible to accept Him. Just very hard and they will likely be martyrs.

It was heard and taught from Scripture.

So you saying you heard and taught by scripture, but scripture doesn't say they will be evangelizing, but If you Can show me the scriptures that says they will be evangelizing I would appreciate it.
You say it is a time God will give the Jews a second chance, do you believe this is the 70th week Daniel , so can you tell me what happen to the Jews the first 69 weeks,

Let me ask you what covenant are the Jews God's chosen people , the first or the second one that Jesus made on the cross
Cause my bible tells me if they have not the Spirit of Christ their none of his, and it also says there is no difference in Jew and Gentile
I just don't see no scripture to back what you believe , matter of fact its one of the most common teachings by man
Oh 1 more thing you say the Holy Spirit won't be here, please show scripture for that, cause that's another teaching from man

 

[norapture]

The 144000 that are sealed are the ones God has specifically chosen to combat the effect of the anti-Christ.

In the scripture they are called Jews, but if you read Pauls writings you will see where it is written "a true Jew is one whose heart is circumsized" . This shows that any Christian can be one of those "Jews"

Just a question,,, do you think these are the same as Revelations 14 is talking about or a different 144 thousand?

 

[Bill]

Just a question,,, do you think these are the same as Revelations 14 is talking about or a different 144 thousand?

I honestly cant answer the question. Im not dodging your question.

I have an understanding of scripture up till the time of my death. Beyond that, i could only guess.

 

[Bill]

So you saying you heard and taught by scripture, but scripture doesn't say they will be evangelizing, but If you Can show me the scriptures that says they will be evangelizing I would appreciate it.
You say it is a time God will give the Jews a second chance, do you believe this is the 70th week Daniel , so can you tell me what happen to the Jews the first 69 weeks,

Let me ask you what covenant are the Jews God's chosen people , the first or the second one that Jesus made on the cross
Cause my bible tells me if they have not the Spirit of Christ their none of his, and it also says there is no difference in Jew and Gentile
I just don't see no scripture to back what you believe , matter of fact its one of the most common teachings by man
Oh 1 more thing you say the Holy Spirit won't be here, please show scripture for that, cause that's another teaching from man

There are many teachings that have been taught for years that are in error. It is difficult at best to reteach what is so engrained and common.

I fear for todays Christians, so unprepared.

It is always important to be tender to our sisters and brothers. To be as it was written, "He shall not put out the flickering flame, nor break the bending reed.

For all are still Gods children. And what God has made Holy, we would be at peril, to cause one to go astray.

 

[Bill]

This is where we must be vigilant and careful on how the enemy works. Disuniting Body of Christ. Sometimes its not about how knowledgeable we are of those verses ( i am not disregarding that we need to study it ) but much of that, the knowledge that we have must be applied. I think that’s what matters.

I have noticed that a lot of unbelievers refused to come to Christ not because they do not believe in Christ but because of those believers who says that they believed but their lives dont show it.

My prayer is (this includes myself- still a working in progress ) May we much more than we say and study the Word, may we be a doer of it.

God uses us by our words and deeds. Is Christ living within, is Christ the water that fills the living vessels