The Rapture

[Sue D.]

Jesus Christ temporarily had DNA through Mary -- He was deity and human at the same time -- but only while He was here on earth.

But both Mary and Joseph were in the line of David.

 

[Sue D.]

Either people will get saved during the tribulation, or else the church goes through the tribulation. Because saints come out of the tribulation.

Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Also, some people will be protected against certain parts of the tribulation.

Rev 7:3; saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."

Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

The 7 yrs of tribulation After the rapture of the Church is primarily for the previously non-believing Jews. They are being given a second chance to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah.
There will be 144,000 Jews protected during those 7 yrs. There will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. So there will be multitudes of saints coming out of the tribulation years.

 

[Ivar]

I have not been in the scriptures for some time but when i was I did research the rapture.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Were the Israelite's raptured into the promised land or did they go thru years of trials and tribulation in the wilderness?

I suspect those that believe in the rapture are more likely to be complacent and less likely to endure. The problem however is
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Lacawar]

Yes, Joseph is Christ's biological father according to the flesh in scripture!

 

[Hekuran]

Question, in Noe's day did anyone get raptured up??? Yashaya said it's going to be just like it was in Noe's day!
Yes! Eight people were 'caught up' into the ark, and did not experience the destruction. A type (picture) of the rapture.
As it was in the days of Noah means the conditions in those days. Activities were the same as today. Normal life...So what was being referred to here? As it was in the days of Noah? They were eating, drinking, giving in marriage,and taking in marriage? Who was eating, drinking, and marrying?

[23]And euery liuing substance was destroyed, which was vpon the face of the ground, both man and cattell, and the creeping things, and the foule of the heauen; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah onely remained aliue, and they that were with him in the Arke.
I like that! What version is that?

"In these next scriptures someone Is Taken (killed) or left behind to live. As it was in the days of noah referring to the word Took" I'm sorry, you have this all backward.
You are studying the Word, no doubt, but you cannot understand things of the Spirit by studying them intellectually. You need to seek the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to learn any Word.

Jesus was clearly talking not about Noah, but the people who were swept away by the flood. "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

 

[Lacawar]

Give me the scriptures that describe in detail the rapture of the church before the tribulation.

Only Detailed scriptures please!

The 2nd Coming and getting caught up is described in detail in scripture.

 

[Hekuran]

Regarding the direction of travel in 1 Thessalonians 4:12

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Paul's purpose in writing was to reassure the church. Some of the congregation had died (fallen asleep), and the church was clearly expecting Jesus to return in glory imminently. Their questions were along the lines of - what about those who have died? Were they saved? Where do they fit in God's purposes?

Paul says that as Jesus returns in glory, the dead will rise.

Imagine a King returning to his kingdom in glory with the spoils of a triumphant battle. As he approached, his people would come out of the city gates in number to greet him and join a triumphant procession to his palace.

That's the kind of image we should have in mind reading 1 Thessalonians. We will be caught up in the air to join Jesus as he returns and accompany him as he begins his triumphant reign on earth.

 

[Lacawar]

Yes Christ returns after the tribulation and We get caught up then!

Show me scriptures of church getting raptured prior to the tribulation.

 

[Curtis]

Yes Christ returns after the tribulation and We get caught up then!

Show me scriptures of church getting raptured prior to the tribulation.

During the times of the early Church there were many false teachers who looked like real Christians living among the children of God. Their purpose was to deceive the Church into believing something false. Most of these false brothers were self deceived, so what they taught they really believed to be true. This is how Satan works by blinding the mind, and the heart of the unregenerate man so that the light of the Gospel would not shine on them.

Paul the Apostle wrote first, and second Thessalonians to correct some false teaching that had been spread through out the Church. There was a false teacher(s) who wrote letter(s) to the Church(s) telling them something to the effect that they had missed the rapture, and that the second coming of Christ was about to happen. They even forged the Apostle Paul's name on these letters saying that it came from Paul. Obviously, this upset many in the Church, because this was completely opposite to what Paul had taught them earlier.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 THAT YE BE NOT SOON SHAKEN IN MIND, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, NOR BY LETTER AS FROM US, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul again tells the Church that the second coming of Jesus Christ (not the rapture) will not happen until a couple things happen first.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;

It is very interesting that the word for, “FALLING AWAY” is the Greek word, “APOSTASIA” which means, “DEPARTURE, TO DEPART”. There must be a “DEPARTURE” first, and then the man of sin be revealed. In other words the man of sin can not be revealed until there is a departure first!! Some people believe that the departure would be some in the Church departing from the faith. Well, that has been going on since the beginning of Christianity, that's nothing new. Many, many people who have not kept the Word of God in themselves who go to Church will always fall away eventually. Jesus tells us this in the parable of the “sower”.

In the Amplified bible, in its foot notes, it says the word “FALLING AWAY” means “THE DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH!! Of course, there will for sure be a DEPARTURE of a certain group of people from another group of people, so that what happens to one group of people, will not happen to the other!!! This is why Jesus told his followers to “watch, and pray that you may be counted worthy to escape those things that will come upon the earth”(Luke 21:36)

The tribulation period can not even begin to start, until the Antichrist is revealed, and that can not happen until the Church has left the building!!! If we don't believe verse 3 as the departure of the Church, don't worry, because the Apostle Paul tells us the exact same thing a couple verses later.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)

There is a “POWER” that is “RESTRAINING” this man of sin (Antichrist) from being revealed in his time. Who could this person be who is “RESTRAINING” the wicked one from being revealed? It is the exact same people who have already departed the earth, who alone had that power over all the works of the evil one!!!
Jesus Christ himself gave his Church that “AUTHORITY” in his “NAME” to have dominion over all the works of the devil including the devil himself!!! (Luke 10:19) The “POWER” that backed up that
“AUTHORITY” was the Holy Spirit, and he too was given unto the Church!! (Acts 1:8)

Someone might say, “it will the Holy Ghost (Spirit) who will be taken away, so the Antichrist can be revealed”
There is only one small problem with that kind of thinking. Jesus said when the Holy Ghost (Spirit) comes he will abide with be us forever!!

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER;

John 14:26 BUT THE COMFORTER, WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

If the Holy Spirit goes, so does the Church!!!

The body of Christ, which is the Church, is the only thing restraining, and holding back the Antichrist from being revealed to this world. Once the Church is gone (raptured, taken out of the way) the Antichrist will be revealed, and all hell is going to break out on planet earth. May God have mercy on all those who remain!!

 

[Lacawar]

I read the KJV 1611 the 1st publication of King James that includes the full 80 books not The NIV, ESV and others.

The Falling away (departure) is correct but it was not from their faith!

 

[Curtis]

I read the KJV 1611 the 1st publication of King James that includes the full 80 books not The NIV, ESV and others.

The Falling away (departure) is correct but it was not from their faith!

You are right. In the amplified Bible in it's foot notes about that verse it say, "the departure of the church"

 

[Sue D.]

I grew up in the KJV and I'm nearly 70 and my parents had the KJV with the Scoffield notes. That was the big thing back then. But I've never seen a KJV with the Apocryphal books included.

I've been doing some researching -- apparently the apocrypha was part of the KJV for 274 yrs but was removed in 1885. Found that in "What books were removed from the Bible and Why?

 

[Sue D.]

Yes Christ returns after the tribulation and We get caught up then!

Show me scriptures of church getting raptured prior to the tribulation.

Give me the scriptures that describe in detail the rapture of the church before the tribulation.

Only Detailed scriptures please!

The 2nd Coming and getting caught up is described in detail in scripture.

Some of the Scripture you're looking for is in Daniel 9 under the heading of The Seventy "Sevens". There is one '7' left to come in the future. One '7' equals 7 yrs. Thus -- 7 years of tribulation still in the future and mid-way through That is when the Great Tribulation starts. After That is when the 2nd coming of Christ takes place. Christ will come in Zechariah 14: and following. He will stand on Mt. of Olives and will be the King over the entire world. He will be coming as the King that the Jewish people wanted instead of the 'baby'Jesus in the manger.

Before that last seven years starts is when the rapture takes place. All believers / the Church/ will be taken Up and out. We are Now in the time of the Gentiles. There Are organizations reaching out to the Jews Now. Jews for Jesus being one of them.

There is the passage about 'two will be standing in the field --one taken and other left' And 'two being in bed, one taken and the other left'. And all of this happening in the twinkling of an eye. A trumpet will sound and all believers will be taken up to meet Christ in the air. Some believe that 'this' is somehow going to be a secret rapture. But there won't be anything 'secret' about it -- not with the noise of a trumpet sounding and people disappearing.

After That happens is when the Marriage Super of the Lamb takes place in heaven.

 

[Lacawar]

All Pre trib believers are believing false doctrine.
By Not rightly dividing the word!
There's no Pre trib rapture and no secret church rapture.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- we'll Both find out, won't we.

 

[Lacawar]

Scriptures warn us to get prepared for what's about to happen, thanks be to the MOST HIGH AHAYAH for giving me UNDERSTANDING!

When scripture doesn't line up in teachings its false doctrine!
Colossians 2:8
[8]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[Dave M]

Regarding the direction of travel in 1 Thessalonians 4:12

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Paul's purpose in writing was to reassure the church. Some of the congregation had died (fallen asleep), and the church was clearly expecting Jesus to return in glory imminently. Their questions were along the lines of - what about those who have died? Were they saved? Where do they fit in God's purposes?

Paul says that as Jesus returns in glory, the dead will rise.

Imagine a King returning to his kingdom in glory with the spoils of a triumphant battle. As he approached, his people would come out of the city gates in number to greet him and join a triumphant procession to his palace.

That's the kind of image we should have in mind reading 1 Thessalonians. We will be caught up in the air to join Jesus as he returns and accompany him as he begins his triumphant reign on earth.

this is really good @Hekuran thanks for posting it I am curios of your belief as far as Pretrib rapture or when you think it will happen??

 

[Curtis]

Description of the "Rapture"

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Description of the "2 coming of Jesus"

2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Sue D.]

Scripture gives us some basic things to be aware of -- what's happening in the world and in society. We know we are getting Close because of the immorality taking place. People will move farther and farther away from God's Word.

A lot of 'things' are gradually taking place. But no one knows an exact time of the rapture -- only God in heaven does. And we are told to Not try setting dates. So far several people have set dates and obviously nothing has happened.

That's why we are told to 'be ready' spiritually. And be concerned about those around us. Our families, etc. And it's understandable that people in war-torn countries Might think that it's already happened. Their worlds are pretty rough.

But God's judgements are going to be far worse.

But, in reality -- are 'we' going to know what's happening when it Does happen? Will it really Matter?!

@ Curtis -- your Scriptures sound more like a description of the Very end.

The second coming of Christ will be the beginning of His 1,000 yr reign on earth. And Then.......

In the meantime -- we should be sharing the Gospel of Christ unto salvation with all who will listen. Every day 'we' Are closer to the unknown time.

 

[Sue D.]

Scriptures warn us to get prepared for what's about to happen, thanks be to the MOST HIGH AHAYAH for giving me UNDERSTANDING!

When scripture doesn't line up in teachings its false doctrine!
Colossians 2:8
[8]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Guess that depends on what a person considers to be false.

some people think that a man by the name of John Darby thought up that doctrine. But he simply found it in Scripture.