Those who believe in a rapture say that the Greek word "parousia" refers to the secret coming of Jesus with the rapturing of the church and the Greek word "apokalupsis" refers to the visible glorious coming of Jesus in power seven years later. So they believe from these Greek words that Christ will return in two phases separated by the 7 years tribulation. Well, I have already proven from the Bible there is NO SEPARATION between the church and the wicked until the END OF THE WORLD. But let's take a look at "parousia" and "apokalupsis". and what I will show you is that BOTH is used to describe the SAME second coming. NOT two comings.
Answer: The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence." As it is used in the New Testament, it can refer to any individual's coming or presence to a specific place or to be with specific people. For example, in 1 Corinthians 16:17, Paul writes of "the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus." In 2 Corinthians 7:6, Paul writes of "the coming of Titus." In Philippians 2:12, it is used to refer to Paul's presence.
Most importantly, however, if you were to do a search of the Greek New Testament, you would find that primarily this word refers to the Coming of the Lord Jesus. It can refer to either His second coming at the END of the 7-year tribulation period (Matthew 24:27, 37, 39; Revelation 19:11 ff), or to His coming to rapture His Church PRIOR to the 7-year period known as the tribulation (1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 5:23; James 5:8; 1 John 2:28).
So, the Parousia is the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you have to look at the context to determine whether it refers to His appearing in the air to rapture or catch away the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), or whether it refers to His second coming to Earth to setup His millennial kingdom (Matthew 24-25; Revelation 19:11ff; 20:4-6). gotquestions.org
This is a thorough bible study including every verse that contains the Greek word ἀποκάλυψις,'apokalupsis' meaning 'revelation' (Strong's 602) in the New Testament. To obtain a true understanding of this word these scriptures need to be meditated on and notes made of their meaning in different contexts. This requires putting scriptures together where they seem to have a similar meaning, and then meditating even more. The truth will be revealed by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to guide us into all truth (John 16:13). Wherever this word apokalupsis appears in the Greek, the translation of it is highlighted with yellow. If the word is in italics then there is no equivalent word for it in the Greek. In Greek the suffixes and some prepositions are not added to the basic word to enhance the meaning, except for case endings, so the associated suffix or preposition has not been included in highlighted text. The exception is that we have included the definite article in the highlighted text when it has occurred, as this may be significant. Every blessing be to those who seek the truth of God's word.
#1.2 Scriptures for ἀποκάλυψις 'apokalupsis' meaning 'revelation' Strong's 602
Luke 2:32 A light for revelation of the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.
Romans 2:5 But after your hardness and impenitent heart treasures up to yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the revelation of the sons of God.
16:25 Now to him who is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to a revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1 Corinthians 1:7 So that you come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ:
14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
14:26 How is it then, brothers? when you come together, every one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done towards edifying.
2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brothers, that the gospel which was preached of me is not according to man.
1:12 For I neither received it of man, nor was I taught it, but through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
3:3 How that by revelation he made known to me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels,
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it is tried with fire, might be found to praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ:
1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
4:13 But rejoice, in as much as you are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that in the revelation of his glory you may be glad also with exceeding joy.
Revelation 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John:
Those who believe in a rapture say that the Greek word "parousia" refers to the secret coming of Jesus with the rapturing of the church and the Greek word "apokalupsis" refers to the visible glorious coming of Jesus in power seven years later. So they believe from these Greek words that Christ will return in two phases separated by the 7 years tribulation. Well, I have already proven from the Bible there is NO SEPARATION between the church and the wicked until the END OF THE WORLD. But let's take a look at "parousia" and "apokalupsis". and what I will show you is that BOTH is used to describe the SAME second coming. NOT two comings.
Actually there's no actual proof that there won't be any separation between the Church and the wicked world, that's just your very personal statement. We have proved before how many passages tell us that He promises to deliver the Church from the Hour of Temptation like Revelation 3:10 clearly states.
Revelation 3:10 V-FIA-1S
GRK: κἀγώ σε τηρήσω ἐκ τῆς
NAS: I also will keep you from the hour
KJV: patience, I also will keep thee from
INT: I also you will keep out of the
So all translators agree on the same point, the Church will be taken up to Heaven, far away from those that will have to go through the Tribulation.
God's promises can't be ignored nor be forgotten! Plus I already exposed how institutions like RCC used the post tribulation to justify their powermonger nature by trying to exercise dominion over countries when we all know that we are called to spread the Gospel and live godly lives only. The most any local church can do is to expel anybody that is misbehaving and reject counsel and correction. Actually Jesus was clear about separating the secular government from the Church's activities as the passage concerning the taxes and the coins with Caesar's face printed on them undoubtedly explains it. And where exactly is parousia used in the same context and with the same meaning as apokalypsis? I haven't seen them being used as literal synonyms as you pretend us to believe. Separating those words from the actual texts only to expose your theories won't make it an acceptable truth for the whole community.
Another reason why people deny the pretribulation rapture is to deny the people their right to experience the kind of hope that provides the knowledge of being saved from such a terrible hour or week or whatever it is called in a certain passage. I already exposed how knowing that one of the prizes would be not to be punished like the world and especially Israel will be. Besides it's a time for Israel to be harshly punished before the Lord comes back and transforms the surviving Israelite people by providing them new hearts of flesh to replace their hearts of stone that nowadays prevent them from doing the Lord's Will.
Still, there's just another reason why the Church is not part of that period of severe punishment. The Church was not supposed to exist till the Lord came in the flesh to tell us about it! The only thing the Jews knew was that He would turn to the nations to call them His people when they had never been called His at all, but there was no mention of founding an institution like the Church, that was a total secret, a Divine Mystery! If the Church had not been created here on earth, Israel would have been scattered among the heathen and only few Jews would have turned to Him in repentance a la prophet Daniel.
Paul uses the word "parousia" in 1Thessalonians 4, which I have discussed above, when speaking of the coming of Christ and our gathering together unto Him. But Paul then shows that "parousia" will destroy the man of sin; the Antichrist ..."whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of His coming [parousia]." 2Thessalonians 2:8. So we have a problem. Paul is saying it is DURING the "parousia" of Christ that the man of sin will be destroyed. And yet those that hold the rapture teaching say that the man of sin will reign AFTER the parousia. And will not destroyed until the physical "apokalupsis" coming of Christ. Apokalupsis [Revelation] is also used in a way that indicates it is NOT a separate from the time believers gathered up. Peter said in 1 Peter 1:13 ...'be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the Revelation ["apokalupsis"] of Jesus Christ;' Now why must Christians be exhorted to continue hoping to the end of the world for the grace brought through the revelation of Jesus Christ if their real hope was a rapture seven years before the tribulation? Do you see the problem with this teaching? I hope so!
Well, the end mentioned in that passage does not necessarily point to the end of times, it can clearly mean the end of our physical lives, either by falling asleep or by being caught up. The Lord also mentions that we must stay firm till the end but like Peter He doesn't mention the end of times or days or anything similar. Transforming the end into the end of times there might be an alarming practice by any reader. Let's also recall the fact that Christians were already persecuted by Jews and Romans back then. Jesus also warned us of what might happen if we don't persevere, i.e. betraying our fellow believers, denying the faith or even the Lord Himself... Even Peter knew how he was gonna die when he wrote his second epistle. So we should not forget the historical context here.
And once again I need to repeat myself and ask you this. If we all know that the 70th week is about Israel and earthly Jerusalem and the end of sin as stated in the book of Daniel, why do you keep including the Church to make us suffer for no good reason? The Wrath of God is for unbelieving Israel and all the wicked nations. God loves His Church so why would He leave His Bride on earth as if He had forgotten her very existence?
We all know that there is One preventing the antichrist from revealing himself, it's Holy Spirit. Since He possesses the knowledge of Truth, the antichrist can't fool anybody like in the time of Tribulation because He's still ministering to every soul we engage as the Church. If the Spirit is no longer on earth and the antichrist will be allowed to show up and start showing his fake miracles, then he will easily fool those that had rejected the Gospel for the Lord revealed He is using him as a punishment on purpose, to make those foolish people show off what has been hiding deep inside their hearts.
Since editing time's up, I will post the rest right here.
The only so called church that will be found on earth is not the faithful Church, it's the apostate church better known as the Great Harlot and Mother of all Harlots. So all of the fake churches and fake believers will be punished even by the antichrist himself once he gets tired of it as stated in Revelation. So only those failing to become true believers will be punished, not because they stopped believing for a while and then returned but the fact that they cared about the world and its pleasures instead of pleasing God. Curiously the RCC fails to mention this whenever they handle the book of Revelation. There was even a time when RCC even blamed the Protestants of being the apostate church just because they disagreed with their practices and preferred to read the Bible in their native tongue instead of Latin. Even Catholics like Casiodoro de Reina in Spain were persecuted for translating the Holy Word!
I really hope they don't call any other group apostate anymore unless there's any of them denying something as basic as the Trinity.
Well -- it's not the 'fake' churches or 'fake' believers who will be 'punished'. The Church of Jesus Christ won't be here any longer. But there are probably lots of Other churches with various beliefs that will still be here. And either a person is a born-again believer or they are not. No such thing as 'fake' believers.
How about 'this' -- those who Do hear the Gospel during the seven years of tribulation and Do accept Christ as personal Savior will be severely punished in the 'here and now' -- but they will look forward to the 'forever' of heaven -- the New Jerusalem.
The RCC fails to mention Lots of Biblical truths. And lots of pastors don't bother trying to preach on book of Revelation.
The RCC have Always blamed the Protestors / Protestants / for being apostates. Well -- yes -- that's what that group Protested Against -- they disagreed with the practices within the RCC.
Yes, Anyone who tried to translate the Holy Bible were persecuted / sometimes killed Because by Reading it and Translating it --so that Others could read it for themselves -- the Others were able to read the Truth of Scriptures for themselves and Thus see what the RCC was really teaching that was Not in God's Word after all.
A 'works-based' salvation was being taught -- paying the church to forgive sins and paying the church to have their dead loved ones ushered out of Purgatory.
There Are some basic things that Are important to be taught in Church. Jesus Christ being the Son of God. That the blood shed by Christ was sufficient to take care of our sins. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
Your comment about Not being punished for having believed for a while -- left and then came back. -- but because they cared more about the worldly pleasures than pleasing God.
A person's salvation is The most important decision in a person's life. Chances are that the person who believed for a while, left and then returned. Well -- their salvation is the Most important factor In their lives. Someone needs to care enough about their soul to talk with the person privately and try to nudge them To saving faith in Christ. Our actions tell the inside story. So the person's 'inside' needs to be addressed in a caring way.
The 'worldly pleasures rather than pleasing God' will be taken care of when they Do accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. And Lots of people have a great understanding Of salvation, but have never accepted it personally.
Well -- it's not the 'fake' churches or 'fake' believers who will be 'punished'. The Church of Jesus Christ won't be here any longer. But there are probably lots of Other churches with various beliefs that will still be here. And either a person is a born-again believer or they are not. No such thing as 'fake' believers.
I wish there were none of them, but even now they do exist and they keep existing for some period of time during the Tribulation. Really, the Great Harlot and the other harlots will fake their belief. Why? Because lies will entice those unbelievers, pagans and so forth to join the Great Harlot's world religion. It is called Babylon because there they also united according to men's flesh instead of God's Will. It is a dark revival of ancient Babylon! Actually Babylon is also the place where all religions originated from.
And yeah, fake churches and fake believers do exist. Actually some only pretend to be believers to scam people and get rich. Others do that in order to get followers of their own. (They even think they are some sort of messiah...)
The 'worldly pleasures rather than pleasing God' will be taken care of when they Do accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. And Lots of people have a great understanding Of salvation, but have never accepted it personally.
Again, it is not that you are wrong here, the thing is that we must mention another sad truth here as well. Some even had accepted the Lord but later preferred to follow strange doctrines that denied God in any way possible. Some even end up being pagans in the worst sense possible like wiccans or witches or mages. Sadly, I have seen those cases during my lifetime and that is what makes me tell people they should repent from such religions or magic and come back to the Lord. The bad thing is that apostate people are the hardest to convince of sin and their need to return.
As far as believers becoming witches -- don't think that's possible. Because witches / warlocks have sold their soul to the devil , haven't they? The soul of a believer has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them -- and the Holy Spirit Won't leave a person and nothing else can be there as well. But a believer Can experience oppression, but that's not what you're talking about. So -- a person who actually becomes a witch or warlock was never a born-again believer in the first place.
Born-again believers will Always be know 'by their fruits' in their lives.
As far as believers becoming witches -- don't think that's possible. Because witches / warlocks have sold their soul to the devil , haven't they? The soul of a believer has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them -- and the Holy Spirit Won't leave a person and nothing else can be there as well. But a believer Can experience oppression, but that's not what you're talking about. So -- a person who actually becomes a witch or warlock was never a born-again believer in the first place.
Born-again believers will Always be know 'by their fruits' in their lives.
Say that to the Apostle Paul when he spoke of Alexander and Hymenaeus and Philetus. Plus there are a few passages that actually tell people that some will be apostates and had known the light but rejected it. So yes, some will sadly ditch the Spirit to sell their souls to the devil. Why? Probably because they hated being told what to do and feeling bad for being sinners. Some people just prefer to forget all of it and live shallow lives.
Salvation means you keep believing in God's offer of Salvation. If at some point they stop believing, then they're as good as a heathen. Don't forget how many times the Lord and His Apostles mention we need to stay faithful. Keep Balaam in mind, he was a prophet and still he ignored God and even sold out the Hebrews to the wicked king of some Canaanite people by telling him how to get rid of the invaders.
Okay there Are a Lot of people who Have heard the truth of salvation and Do reject it. They have seen the positive affects of salvation in other people's lives. Even close up --friends / family and Still reject salvation.
No one can ditch the Holy Spirit -- He has sealed the believer so they Can't be lost until they are safely with Jesus Christ.
Some years ago I met a young lady via a forum I was on. She was from a Japanese up-bringing and in this country to get a law degree. Her family was connected to a mob group in that country.
I'd explained both on Forum and in PM's (private messaging) about salvation / Christianity. She tried to explain Her religious beliefs in an effort to convert Me to Her beliefs. She'd been through a Lot of 'mess' in her young life. Tried to share God's forgiveness. But she simply wasn't interested. She said there's So Much I could learn from her -- If only I'd give it a chance. Well -- I said No , not interested because of Bible / Christianity. So -- she'd decided to go back to Japan and 'help' in a family oriented business. Being a top-notch lawyer in the mob -- can only imagine. But she was very content to continue on as she had been -- totally Not accepting Christianity.
Salvation means that a person has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and is growing in grace and knowledge of God -- the Holy Spirit has come to indwell them permanently -- and no, they won't stop believing. And, of Course, we need to be faithful. Church is meant to be a place to read God's Word - to encourage each other spiritually. To listen and help each other.
You take One example from the Old Testament and base What on it?!
During the times of the early Church, there were many false teachers who looked like real Christians living among the children of God. Their purpose was to deceive the Church into believing something false. Most of these false brothers were self-deceived, so what they taught they really believed to be true. This is how Satan works by blinding the mind, and the heart of the unregenerate man so that the light of the Gospel would not shine on them.
Paul the Apostle wrote first, and second Thessalonians to correct some false teaching that had been spread throughout the Church. There was a false teacher(s) who wrote letter(s) to the Church(s) telling them something to the effect that they had missed the rapture, and that the second coming of Christ was about to happen. They even forged the Apostle Paul's name on these letters saying that it came from Paul. Obviously, this upset many in the Church, because this was completely opposite to what Paul had taught them earlier.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 THAT YE BE NOT SOON SHAKEN IN MIND, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, NOR BY LETTER AS FROM US, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Paul again tells the Church that the second coming of Jesus Christ (not the rapture) will not happen until a couple of things happen first.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;
It is very interesting that the word for, “FALLING AWAY” is the Greek word, “apostasia” which means, “DEPARTURE, TO DEPART”. There must be a “DEPARTURE” first, and then the man of sin be revealed. In other words, the man of sin can not be revealed until there is a departure first!! Some people believe that the departure would be some in the Church departing from the faith. Well, that has been going on since the beginning of Christianity, that's nothing new. Many, many people who have not kept the Word of God in themselves who go to Church will always fall away eventually. Jesus tells us this in the parable of the “sower”.
In the Amplified Bible, in its footnotes, it says the word “FALLING AWAY” means “THE DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH!! Of course, there will for sure be a DEPARTURE of a certain group of people from another group of people, so that what happens to one group of people, will not happen to the other!!! :smile: This is why Jesus told his followers to “watch, and pray that you may be counted worthy to escape those things that will come upon the earth”(Luke 21:36)
The tribulation period can not even begin to start until the Antichrist is revealed, and that can not happen until the Church has left the building!!! If we don't believe verse 3 as the departure of the Church, don't worry, because the Apostle Paul tells us the exact same thing a couple of verses later.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM NOW SO THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS IT WILL DO SO UNTIL HE IS OUT OF THE WAY.
2Th 2:8 And THEN THE LAWLESS ONE WILL BE REVEALED, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (ESV)
There is a “POWER” that is “RESTRAINING” this man of sin (Antichrist) from being revealed in his time. Who could this person be who is “RESTRAINING” the wicked one from being revealed? It is the exact same people who have already departed the earth, who alone had that power over all the works of the evil one!!!
Jesus Christ himself gave his Church that “AUTHORITY” in his “NAME” to have dominion over all the works of the devil including the devil himself!!! (Luke 10:19) The “POWER” that backed up that
“AUTHORITY” was the Holy Spirit, and he too was given unto the Church!! (Acts 1:8)
Someone might say, “it will the Holy Ghost (Spirit) who will be taken away, so the Antichrist can be revealed.”
There is only one small problem with that kind of thinking. Jesus said when the Holy Ghost (Spirit) comes he will abide with us forever!!
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER;
John 14:26 BUT THE COMFORTER, WHICH IS THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
If the Holy Spirit goes, so does the Church!!! :smile:
The body of Christ, which is the Church, is the only thing restraining and holding back the Antichrist from being revealed to this world. Once the Church is gone (raptured, taken out of the way) the Antichrist will be revealed, and all hell is going to break out on planet earth. May God have mercy on all those who remain!!
It's only people in the pre-trib camp that say the word apostasia is a departure. Falling away is a really bad translation, and departure isn't a whole lot better. The word is translated FORSAKE in Acts 21.
Fall, Fallen, Falling, Fell: "a defection, revolt, apostasy," is used in the NT of religious apostasy; in Act 21:21, it is translated "to forsake," lit., "thou teachest apostasy from Moses." In 2Th 2:3"the falling away" signifies apostasy from the faith. In papyri documents it is used politically of rebels. Note: For "mighty fall," Rev 18:21, RV, see VIOLENCE. Forsake: "an apostasy, defection, revolt," always in NT of religious defection, is translated "to forsake" in Act 21:21, lit., "(thou teachest) apostasy (from Moses);" in 2Th 2:3, "falling away."
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Tell me, how is the Church restraining and holding back the Antichrist from being revealed to this world?
It's only people in the pre-trib camp that say the word apostasia is a departure. Falling away is a really bad translation, and departure isn't a whole lot better. The word is translated FORSAKE in Acts 21.
Fall, Fallen, Falling, Fell: "a defection, revolt, apostasy," is used in the NT of religious apostasy; in Act 21:21, it is translated "to forsake," lit., "thou teachest apostasy from Moses." In 2Th 2:3"the falling away" signifies apostasy from the faith. In papyri documents it is used politically of rebels. Note: For "mighty fall," Rev 18:21, RV, see VIOLENCE. Forsake: "an apostasy, defection, revolt," always in NT of religious defection, is translated "to forsake" in Act 21:21, lit., "(thou teachest) apostasy (from Moses);" in 2Th 2:3, "falling away."
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Tell me, how is the Church restraining and holding back the Antichrist from being revealed to this world?
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
1Th 3:12 And may the Lord make you to increase and excel and overflow in love for one another and for all people, just as we also do for you,
1Th 3:13 So that He may strengthen and confirm and establish your hearts faultlessly pure and unblamable in holiness in the sight of our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) with all His saints (the holy and glorified people of God)! Amen, (so be it)! (AMP)
This is speaking of Jesus second coming along with ALL of his saints the Church!! The catching away happens seven years (before the tribulation period) before this happens.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
