That verse was likely added. it doesn't exist in the original manuscripts. If you're quoting that in response to my question about how the church is restraining the anti-Christ,, sorry, it's way off.
The Rapture
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That doesn't answer the question - try again!
Curtis
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That's funny this verse is in all of my Bibles I own!
Curtis
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I can not help you if you do not want to believe scripture! Sorry!
Brother-Paul
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I am just asking for confirmation brother. Are you saying here that the Rapture will take place, 7 years before the end of the great tribulation period, when Christ Returns in Glory and defeats the devil and makes all things new. Which is the start of the Tribulation period. You are therefore referring to Pre-Trib.
I understand the 7 year period of Tribulations as, 3 1/2 years Tribulation period, 3 1/2 years Great Tribulation period.
I have no problem believing scripture, it's you who I don't believe. The verses you've quoted DO NOT answer my question.
It doesn't have anything to do with my question anyway! It's in every bible I own too, but I made a mistake, it's not Luke 10 that's likely NOT in the original text, it's Mark 16:17-20. People - esp. Pentecostals have died believing drinking poison and handling poisonous snakes wouldn't hurt them.
Curtis
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The "tribulation" period will begin when the AntiChrist makes a peace covenant with Isreal, and then after 3 1/2 years, he will break that covenant (starting the Great tribulation) for 3 1/2 more years. The Church will be gone before the peace covenant is made with the AntiChrist. Of course, the world will not know this man as the AntiChrist until he claims himself to be God halfway through the tribulation period.
Dan 9:27 And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week [seven years]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and upon the wing or pinnacle of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate, until the full determined end is poured out on the desolator. (AMP)
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition), (Dan 7:25) (Dan 8:25)(1Ti 4:1
2Th 2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God. (Eze28:2) (Dan 11:36-37) (AMP)
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Folks, ONLY Paul had revelation knowledge of the rapture of the church. You won't find it in the gospels. If we study 1 Thes. 4 & 5, Paul gives away the timing - but not with the first reading: it takes study.
This is my synopsis of Paul's rapture events:
SUDDENLY - at a time when people are thinking and saying "Peace and safety" the dead in Christ around the world will fly up out of their graves and into the air. Considering Matthew 27, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." when God raises the dead in Christ, it will cause a massive, world wide earthquake - which will be Paul's "sudden destruction."
Next, a moment later, Paul shows us a paradigm: two different groups of people get two separate results. Those are are alive and "in Christ" will get salvation: they will be caught up just as the ground begins the shake. But those left behind will get the full sudden destruction earthquake.
Paul then hints very strongly that this sudden destruction earthquake will be the start of the wrath of God. He tells us that God will not set any appointments for us with His wrath, but those left behind will be in His wrath: therefore the sudden destruction is the beginning of His wrath.
Where they does this scenario fit in John's Revelation narrative? Where is the first earthquake in Revelation? Where does the wrath of God start in Revelation? Both begin at the 6th seal. Therefore Paul's rapture will be a moment before the 6th seal.
Did you all ever notice what the 5th seal is? It is the martyrs of the church age. They are told they just wait for the start of judgment (the 6th seal) until the full number of martyrs will be killed. So what will cause a certain martyr to be the final church age martyr? Of course, the rapture will END the church age. So in short, these martyrs are told they must wait for the rapture that will end the church age - and THEN judgment will begin.
It is no mistake then that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in chapter 7, right after the 6th seal.
The truth then is Paul DOES tell us where his rapture will be in relation to wrath. The rapture, it seems, will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord or the day of His wrath.
Considering the great crowd, too large to number: ONLY the rapture (perhaps 50 generations of believers) will be a crowd too large to number: probably many billions. Next, don't be thrown off or led astray by John's "out of great tribulation." John has not yet even started the 70th week, MUCH LESS arrived at the second half where the days of GT Jesus spoke of will begin. All John is telling is in chapter 7 is that at the time of the rapture, people will be being martyred around the world. "Tribulation" cannot be any greater for one that is martyred. He or she cannot be killed twice!
This is my synopsis of Paul's rapture events:
SUDDENLY - at a time when people are thinking and saying "Peace and safety" the dead in Christ around the world will fly up out of their graves and into the air. Considering Matthew 27, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened..." when God raises the dead in Christ, it will cause a massive, world wide earthquake - which will be Paul's "sudden destruction."
Next, a moment later, Paul shows us a paradigm: two different groups of people get two separate results. Those are are alive and "in Christ" will get salvation: they will be caught up just as the ground begins the shake. But those left behind will get the full sudden destruction earthquake.
Paul then hints very strongly that this sudden destruction earthquake will be the start of the wrath of God. He tells us that God will not set any appointments for us with His wrath, but those left behind will be in His wrath: therefore the sudden destruction is the beginning of His wrath.
Where they does this scenario fit in John's Revelation narrative? Where is the first earthquake in Revelation? Where does the wrath of God start in Revelation? Both begin at the 6th seal. Therefore Paul's rapture will be a moment before the 6th seal.
Did you all ever notice what the 5th seal is? It is the martyrs of the church age. They are told they just wait for the start of judgment (the 6th seal) until the full number of martyrs will be killed. So what will cause a certain martyr to be the final church age martyr? Of course, the rapture will END the church age. So in short, these martyrs are told they must wait for the rapture that will end the church age - and THEN judgment will begin.
It is no mistake then that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in chapter 7, right after the 6th seal.
The truth then is Paul DOES tell us where his rapture will be in relation to wrath. The rapture, it seems, will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord or the day of His wrath.
Considering the great crowd, too large to number: ONLY the rapture (perhaps 50 generations of believers) will be a crowd too large to number: probably many billions. Next, don't be thrown off or led astray by John's "out of great tribulation." John has not yet even started the 70th week, MUCH LESS arrived at the second half where the days of GT Jesus spoke of will begin. All John is telling is in chapter 7 is that at the time of the rapture, people will be being martyred around the world. "Tribulation" cannot be any greater for one that is martyred. He or she cannot be killed twice!
Your post shows me how our illustrious prophecy teachers have influenced your thinking.
People who believe in Daniel's 70th week tell us that the covenant with many is a peace treaty between Israel and most other countries of the world that the anti-Christ initiates and then breaks in the middle of the 70th week.
Problem is a covenant isn't a peace treaty and Israel isn't mentioned in the text!
DAN 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:...
The word covenant is the word briyth ber-eeth' from 1262 (in the sense of cutting (like 1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):--confederacy, (con-)feder(-ate), covenant, league.
The word covenant is an alliance or confederacy. Alliances are always made with friends. They are not made with enemies. Peace treaties are made with enemies. If you're a believer in Daniel's 70TH week, understand that what is mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty. It's an alliance of nations who want to destroy Israel! The idea of a peace treaty also comes from Daniel 8:25 where it is said, "and by peace shall destroy many."
Israel will never makes friends or have an alliance with the Arabs and Muslims.
Well -- past history has proved to be Very interesting -- just imagine what Future history has in store -- apparently some Surprises.
B-A-C
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Matt 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14; No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15; Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14; No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15; Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
John Prewett
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5 He was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies. And he was given authority to wage war for forty-two months. 6 He opened his mouth to speak blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe and tongue and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, all whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13
7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints
7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints
7 It was granted to him to wage war with the saints
Not even a hint of another batch of saints being whisked to heaven before the Beast wages war on the saings. PreTrib is a major false prophecy of our age.
Pretribbers invent an imaginary group that gets whisked away before the Beast even shows up. This group is purely fictional. Exist only in pretribber imaginations.
ONLY Revelation 13-Rev 20:4 reveals OUR generations end time sequence of events.
If you are studying end time prophecy you shouldn't be in Daniel.
Nor pay attention to Paul's predictions.
Nor pay attention to Matt 24/Mark 13.
All that Paul wrote that pretribbers rely on HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.
2000 years ago Jesus came back FOR His Church as Paul and Jesus predicted.
But Revelation 19 reveals in OUR era, Jesus is coming back WITH His Church.
We who will REIGN WITH CHRIST will have been BEHEADED ... as per Rev 20:4.
Are you saying Christ returned back around AD70?
God doesn't remove people from their troubles, He preserves them through them. Jesus said the gathering happens at the end of tribulation, and Paul's account in 1Thes. puts the harpazo in with the Parousia which occurs at the end of tribulation.
Well -- I'm choosing to Not follow you suggestion as to where to stay Out of. How do you figure that Jesus came back For His church 2,000 yrs. ago. He certainly didn't Take us anywhere since we're all still Here. NOTHING has 'already' happened.
Maybe you should be reading the areas that you're telling 'us' Not to.
And, yes,. Jesus Christ Will be coming back -- the 2nd coming To reign for those coming 1,000 yrs. with the saints all those who are living -- who've survived the 7 yrs. of tribulation. The difference between Now and Then , is that satan will be locked up so that he can't interfere with us any more. And Then satan does get loosed again to gather anyone who wants to be with him. God appears and destroys them.
And Why would born-again believers have to go through / experience God's wrath? We've accepted Him, not Rejected Him. There's going to be a lot of havoc created by non-believers For believers Before the rapture. Which IS Before the 7 yrs. of tribulation yet to come.
Your question is flawed because the tribulation period is not God's wrath.
Brother-Paul
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This appears to be a sticking point with some, many of the post trib. say they cannot accept God would punish the world by the Rapture happening pre or mid trib. They don't accept if the Rapture happened at either of the two earlier stages mentioned, that those left behind should suffer, as in the example of the driver of a car is Raptured because he or she is Saved, they say why should the others be in accidents, go over the edge of a cliff side road and similar. They believe God will not let them suffer and die in this manner.
What they fail to accept is, these are lost souls who have rejected rejected God and His Christ. They cannot seem to see that Jesus lifts out the Saved believers, His Church, and that those left behind are lost souls. So in effect they choose to turn a blind eye to the Saved suffering through the Tribulation and Great Tribulation Periods, so long as they and their loved ones don't suffer.
Matthew 16:25-27 (NKJV)
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
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