The Trinity

[Charlie24]

I don't want to be the stick in the mud here, but the Apostle Paul makes it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is the Creator of the Universe.

"All things were created by Him, and for Him." Colossians 1:16.

There is a strong argument among the scholars that the Jehovah God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ.

If this is true, then Genesis 1:1 reads "In the beginning God/Jesus Christ created the heaven and the earth."

When Moses asked God "who do I say has sent me" God said, " tell them I AM sent you."

When Christ was questioned by the Pharisees about Abraham, Christ said, "before Abraham was, I AM."

 

[Twistie]

When the comforter came,Christ could be everywhere all over the world at the same time because he is Spirit.
Christ while in the flesh was limited to whatever area he was in.

Wonder why peep think YH would only name the flesh n not the spirit..

 

[Bill]

Indeed, when did FAITH become a logical thing?

It Is by faith then that I know that God is co-equal in every way

 

[Bill]

Wonder why peep think YH would only name the flesh n not the spirit..

It's only because people relate to Jesus more that way.

We, you and I have to accept those who feel that way. And pray for them, that the spirit would open their mind to understand the deeper side of God.

It is why Paul talks about those who feel they can eat every sort of thing, must not begrudge those that only feel they can only eat vegetables

 

[Samson2020]

There is a strong argument among the scholars that the Jehovah God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ.

If this were the case then Rev 3:14 would seem pretty weird trying to explain how God created Himself??
..................these things saith the amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.

In light of Col 1:16 Mark 10:6 Rev 4:11 and 3:14 and other verses, it could be concluded that the beginning of the creation started with the creative word of God.
It (He) could not have existed if He was created as Rev 4:11 states. He was created to create the created realm, and the spiritual, including ALL things whether
principalities, powers, things on earth or things in Heaven. And they were created for Him.
They were not in His possession until all power in heaven and earth was given to Him by the Father. Matt 28:18 For the ruler of this world had not been defeated
until after His crucifixion.

Thus God created the word in order to create the worlds, seen and unseen. God speaks, the word creates what He speaks into existence.
The word Elohim translated as God in the Bible is a plural word, whereas El is singular and also interpreted God. So when Elohim created the heavens and
the earth it was a plural use of the word, but since there was no other God at that time the word could not be an independent life form, but instead substance
of God not capable of being self sustaining as it was in need of being sustained. Thus when Jesus is given life to have within Himself from the Father it must be
concluded that He did not have that self sustaining ability prior to that begetting in the spirit. Therefore; "THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE" He becomes as
the Father as all the fullness of God was dwelling in Him.
Does this mean we do not respect the deity of Jesus? No. It only questions when He became independent self sustaining Deity.
Are the two one in spirit? Yes.
But if one created the other then they are not equal?
And if created as Rev 4:11 states then one was not co-eternal to begin with.

The next question that comes to mind is who exactly is Elohim? Is it just the Father and the singular creative word or is the creative word composed of more than
one entity? Keep in mind that I stated the creative word was substance of God but not independent of God.
Which begs the question who are we to Jesus? He says we are His brethren, we are His own. Does this mean we were part of the creative word as well or
that we were just part of what God spoke into existence through Him?
As a spirit that came out from God am I a creation of Jesus or a specific spirit assigned a specific task in this world that will some day be just like my elder brother,
my Lord Jesus Christ?

It is confusing as it leads one to believe that Jesus is our creator, but the Father has been assigned that title, and Jesus our Brother. So just who were you?

Before the world began God promised eternal life Tit 1:2 Unto whom was that promise made? And how was it made to anything that did not yet exist?

 

[Charlie24]

If this were the case then Rev 3:14 would seem pretty weird trying to explain how God created Himself??
..................these things saith the amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.

In light of Col 1:16 Mark 10:6 Rev 4:11 and 3:14 and other verses, it could be concluded that the beginning of the creation started with the creative word of God.
It (He) could not have existed if He was created as Rev 4:11 states. He was created to create the created realm, and the spiritual, including ALL things whether
principalities, powers, things on earth or things in Heaven. And they were created for Him.
They were not in His possession until all power in heaven and earth was given to Him by the Father. Matt 28:18 For the ruler of this world had not been defeated
until after His crucifixion.

Thus God created the word in order to create the worlds, seen and unseen. God speaks, the word creates what He speaks into existence.
The word Elohim translated as God in the Bible is a plural word, whereas El is singular and also interpreted God. So when Elohim created the heavens and
the earth it was a plural use of the word, but since there was no other God at that time the word could not be an independent life form, but instead substance
of God not capable of being self sustaining as it was in need of being sustained. Thus when Jesus is given life to have within Himself from the Father it must be
concluded that He did not have that self sustaining ability prior to that begetting in the spirit. Therefore; "THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE" He becomes as
the Father as all the fullness of God was dwelling in Him.
Does this mean we do not respect the deity of Jesus? No. It only questions when He became independent self sustaining Deity.
Are the two one in spirit? Yes.
But if one created the other then they are not equal?
And if created as Rev 4:11 states then one was not co-eternal to begin with.

The next question that comes to mind is who exactly is Elohim? Is it just the Father and the singular creative word or is the creative word composed of more than
one entity? Keep in mind that I stated the creative word was substance of God but not independent of God.
Which begs the question who are we to Jesus? He says we are His brethren, we are His own. Does this mean we were part of the creative word as well or
that we were just part of what God spoke into existence through Him?
As a spirit that came out from God am I a creation of Jesus or a specific spirit assigned a specific task in this world that will some day be just like my elder brother,
my Lord Jesus Christ?

It is confusing as it leads one to believe that Jesus is our creator, but the Father has been assigned that title, and Jesus our Brother. So just who were you?

Before the world began God promised eternal life Tit 1:2 Unto whom was that promise made? And how was it made to anything that did not yet exist?

It' s not possible for the mortal mind to understand the relationship between the Father and the Son. That's why the Scripture makes no effort to explain it.

We assume we know, but we don't. We explain it in many different ways, but the fact remains we have no idea.

They are 2 individual beings but at the same time they are the same person. The Godhead/Trinity is impossible to explain for mortal man.

 

[lentz]

Wonder why peep think YH would only name the flesh n not the spirit..

I have been wondering why people call him uh instead of Jesus

 

[Twistie]

I have been wondering why people call him uh instead of Jesus

Its a personal relationship I call on Yeshua Immanuel YH Abba He has many names one can call on..

 

[lentz]

Its a personal relationship I call on Yeshua Immanuel YH Abba He has many names one can call on..

So then it should be Y I

 

[Twistie]

So then it should be Y I

Between you n YH what u call Him who am I to tell you what you should call the Father...like I said it's a personal relationship.. one must have one with Him to understand that tho.. ya know?

To tell anyone how they should call on Abba would be like u telling my son how he should address me or telling me how I should address my mom or dad.. that be arrogant dont ya think?

 

[Bill]

I don't want to be the stick in the mud here, but the Apostle Paul makes it perfectly clear that Jesus Christ is the Creator of the Universe.

"All things were created by Him, and for Him." Colossians 1:16.

There is a strong argument among the scholars that the Jehovah God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ.

If this is true, then Genesis 1:1 reads "In the beginning God/Jesus Christ created the heaven and the earth."

When Moses asked God "who do I say has sent me" God said, " tell them I AM sent you."

When Christ was questioned by the Pharisees about Abraham, Christ said, "before Abraham was, I AM."

There is no English translation to the phrase God said to Moses " I am who am " the closest true translation is "I's am whom am" .

We do not have a singular plural noun in our vocabulary.

The Israelites already knew God was 2 persons as 1 . God and the Spirit of God.

And as scripture states, Jesus had not yet been revealed to them

 

[Bill]

If this were the case then Rev 3:14 would seem pretty weird trying to explain how God created Himself??
..................these things saith the amen, the faithful and true witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.

In light of Col 1:16 Mark 10:6 Rev 4:11 and 3:14 and other verses, it could be concluded that the beginning of the creation started with the creative word of God.
It (He) could not have existed if He was created as Rev 4:11 states. He was created to create the created realm, and the spiritual, including ALL things whether
principalities, powers, things on earth or things in Heaven. And they were created for Him.
They were not in His possession until all power in heaven and earth was given to Him by the Father. Matt 28:18 For the ruler of this world had not been defeated
until after His crucifixion.

Thus God created the word in order to create the worlds, seen and unseen. God speaks, the word creates what He speaks into existence.
The word Elohim translated as God in the Bible is a plural word, whereas El is singular and also interpreted God. So when Elohim created the heavens and
the earth it was a plural use of the word, but since there was no other God at that time the word could not be an independent life form, but instead substance
of God not capable of being self sustaining as it was in need of being sustained. Thus when Jesus is given life to have within Himself from the Father it must be
concluded that He did not have that self sustaining ability prior to that begetting in the spirit. Therefore; "THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE" He becomes as
the Father as all the fullness of God was dwelling in Him.
Does this mean we do not respect the deity of Jesus? No. It only questions when He became independent self sustaining Deity.
Are the two one in spirit? Yes.
But if one created the other then they are not equal?
And if created as Rev 4:11 states then one was not co-eternal to begin with.

The next question that comes to mind is who exactly is Elohim? Is it just the Father and the singular creative word or is the creative word composed of more than
one entity? Keep in mind that I stated the creative word was substance of God but not independent of God.
Which begs the question who are we to Jesus? He says we are His brethren, we are His own. Does this mean we were part of the creative word as well or
that we were just part of what God spoke into existence through Him?
As a spirit that came out from God am I a creation of Jesus or a specific spirit assigned a specific task in this world that will some day be just like my elder brother,
my Lord Jesus Christ?

It is confusing as it leads one to believe that Jesus is our creator, but the Father has been assigned that title, and Jesus our Brother. So just who were you?

Before the world began God promised eternal life Tit 1:2 Unto whom was that promise made? And how was it made to anything that did not yet exist?

God was never created. God always was

 

[Charlie24]

There is no English translation to the phrase God said to Moses " I am who am " the closest true translation is "I's am whom am" .

We do not have a singular plural noun in our vocabulary.

The Israelites already knew God was 2 persons as 1 . God and the Spirit of God.

And as scripture states, Jesus had not yet been revealed to them

Jesus was revealed to Israel through the Sacrificial System of the Law of Moses.

The early Israelites knew this, but by the time Christ came they had totally perverted the Law and the Sacrifice of an innocent animal that represented Him.

 

[Bill]

Jesus was revealed to Israel through the Sacrificial System of the Law of Moses.

The early Israelites knew this, but by the time Christ came they had totally perverted the Law and the Sacrifice of an innocent animal that represented Him.

I was quoting scripture. It states that the Israelites did not know him

You could say that Jesus was revealed to the Israelites through the word that was transcribed on to the two stone tablets. But they still didn't recognize him

 

[Charlie24]

I was quoting scripture. It states that the Israelites did not know him

You could say that Jesus was revealed to the Israelites through the word that was transcribed on to the two stone tablets. But they still didn't recognize him

That generation of Israel didn't know Him because they didn't want a Suffering Lamb, they wanted a conquering Warrior to overthrow Rome.

They believed they were saved by being born of Jacob, being a Hebrew. They didn't need a Saviour.

That's how perverted they had become.

God had plainly told them,

Lev. 17:11

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

They knew through Moses that this sacrifice on the alter of an innocent animal shedding it's blood represented the coming Messiah.

 

[Samson2020]

We assume we know, but we don't. We explain it in many different ways, but the fact remains we have no idea.

They are 2 individual beings but at the same time they are the same person.

At least your honest, still you lean on something you don't understand but honest about it.

No wonder so many are so confused. They are 2 but really just one?? No they are two, a Father and a Son, the first begotten Son of many to come. Only One TRUE God
our Father, and Jesus Christ our brother who is a Co Heir with me in His Fathers Kingdom. Rom 8:17

However this has been beaten to death so.......................

2 Tim 1:9 For God saved us and called us to live a Holy life. He did this not because we deserve it,
but because that was His plan from before the beginning of time
to show us His grace through Jesus Christ.

I have tried to cause thought on the subject of who we were and why are we here, but it just doesn't seem to get much attention, as if nobody cares.
So I will give a few verses and let you figure it out if you can or want to.

To start lets look at the above verse. It states that God wanted to do this before the beginning of time. My first thought here is that if He wanted to do that
for me, who was I and did I exist prior to this life I live in the flesh? Seems as though I must of, but as what? Same as Jesus, part of the creative word of God.
Elohim plural word.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.

Rom 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son.

2 Thess 2:13........................because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth: Whereunto
HE CALLED YOU by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jer 17:12 A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

Psa 82:6 I have said ye are gods(Elohim); and ALL of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men..................

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

Rom 11:36 For of him and through Him and to Him are all things; to whom be glory forever, Amen.

John 16:27 For the Father Himself loveth you, for you have loved me, and believed that I came out from God.

Foreknown, predestinated, chosen from before the beginning of time, a child of the Most High, promised eternal life before the world began, and from Him.

You figure it out if you care.

 

[Samson2020]

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country(God) from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

He isn't speaking of land here.

Mic 4:10 Be in pain, and labor to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt though go forth of the city(God), and thou shalt
dwell in the field(earth), and thou shalt go even to Babylon(sinful state of man); there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee
from the hand of thine enemies.

Deliver us from evil????
This is nothing less than current, future, and past condition of all the spirits of mankind. They came out from God, dwell on the Earth, and live in a state of sin
and seperation from God. We shall be delivered and redeemed from these conditions but all in due time(s). Why? Because it is His will!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

At least your honest, still you lean on something you don't understand but honest about it.

No wonder so many are so confused. They are 2 but really just one?? No they are two, a Father and a Son, the first begotten Son of many to come. Only One TRUE God
our Father, and Jesus Christ our brother who is a Co Heir with me in His Fathers Kingdom. Rom 8:17

However this has been beaten to death so.......................

2 Tim 1:9 For God saved us and called us to live a Holy life. He did this not because we deserve it,
but because that was His plan from before the beginning of time
to show us His grace through Jesus Christ.

I have tried to cause thought on the subject of who we were and why are we here, but it just doesn't seem to get much attention, as if nobody cares.
So I will give a few verses and let you figure it out if you can or want to.

To start lets look at the above verse. It states that God wanted to do this before the beginning of time. My first thought here is that if He wanted to do that
for me, who was I and did I exist prior to this life I live in the flesh? Seems as though I must of, but as what? Same as Jesus, part of the creative word of God.
Elohim plural word.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.

Rom 8:29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son.

2 Thess 2:13........................because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth: Whereunto
HE CALLED YOU by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jer 17:12 A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

Psa 82:6 I have said ye are gods(Elohim); and ALL of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men..................

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

Rom 11:36 For of him and through Him and to Him are all things; to whom be glory forever, Amen.

John 16:27 For the Father Himself loveth you, for you have loved me, and believed that I came out from God.

Foreknown, predestinated, chosen from before the beginning of time, a child of the Most High, promised eternal life before the world began, and from Him.

You figure it out if you care.

It appears that the Word has been overlooked or put aside for fleshly thinking.

Perhaps you can figure it out, if you care?

We do well to sit back from our doctrine and see what the Word is about.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Samson2020]

It appears that the Word has been overlooked or put aside for fleshly thinking.

I'm sorry, what doctrine was being espoused through fleshly thinking? I only put up eleven verses that point to where all of us came from and why, that isn't
a doctrine. The reader can come to their own conclusion. Unless the reader has no spiritual understanding then carnal minded man interprets literally and
gets nothing from it.

I realize you dislike me but not sure how quoting the Bible is fleshly thinking, but as is your way to condemn most things you cannot grasp I suppose
it was expected.
None the less you came from the same place as I, and that is from God our Father so a brother none the less.

 

[Samson2020]

Eph 1:4 According as He made choice of us, in Him, before the founding of the world, that we might be holy and blameless in His presence ; In love
marking us out beforehand unto sonship, through Jesus Christ, for Himself. (EMP)

So the plan all along was for God to have actual children that would grow up to be conformed to the Image of the first born Son who is the
express Image of the Father.

No wonder it is so hard to distinguish the two. Imagine when there are 144,000 plus 2.

Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work in which ye shall in no wise believe,
though a man declare in unto you.

Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and His Maker, Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons, and concerning the work of
My hands command ye Me.