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The Trinity

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Eph 1:4 According as He made choice of us, in Him, before the founding of the world, that we might be holy and blameless in His presence ; In love
marking us out beforehand unto sonship, through Jesus Christ, for Himself. (EMP)

So the plan all along was for God to have actual children that would grow up to be conformed to the Image of the first born Son who is the
express Image of the Father.

No wonder it is so hard to distinguish the two. Imagine when there are 144,000 plus 2.

Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work in which ye shall in no wise believe,
though a man declare in unto you.


Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and His Maker, Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons, and concerning the work of
My hands command ye Me.

That is not correct, Sam!

God did not predestinate/pick and choose the individual person for salvation, it was His plan of salvation that was predestined for man.

God knew man would fall in the Garden, so before He created man His plan was already determined that His Son would die on the Cross for man to be redeemed.

It's the plan not the individual person that is predestinated.
 
Greetings,

I'm sorry, what doctrine was being espoused through fleshly thinking? I only put up eleven verses that point to where all of us came from and why, that isn't
a doctrine. The reader can come to their own conclusion. Unless the reader has no spiritual understanding then carnal minded man interprets literally and
gets nothing from it.

I realize you dislike me but not sure how quoting the Bible is fleshly thinking, but as is your way to condemn most things you cannot grasp I suppose
it was expected.
None the less you came from the same place as I, and that is from God our Father so a brother none the less.

Please try to resist personal grievances on the forums. The P.M. or Conversations section is preferred.

For the record, I actually think well of you. Universalism is incorrect but I perceive a man genuinely trying to help and share and love both his fellow man and God.
That does not mean I overlook error and I am quite sure most of your postings are in some way, at least, driven by much the same desire to discuss truth as found in Scripture.

Post in Peace


Bless you ....><>
 
Greetings,

not sure how quoting the Bible is fleshly thinking

Perhaps consider the Mormons or JW's? I can give you more examples but sufficient enough now to pass on the point?

I recall posts with words written that suggest that fleshly thinking is why others can not see something 'spiritual'.

Bless you ....><>
 
Greetings again,

but as is your way to condemn most things you cannot grasp I suppose
it was expected.
much as you do to all others who disagree with your current doctrine?

Post in peace, less personal jabs so we can all grow in His grace, not our own wisdom.


Bless you ....><>
 
Greetings,

but as is your way to condemn most things you cannot grasp I suppose
it was expected.

it would appear you did not grasp what i wrote?

Again, rather than trying to cut me, perhaps engage in kindness and ask what you can not as yet grasp?

Jesus Christ is the Lord


Bless you ....><>
 
Samson2020.

I was wondering if you would share with us the religion you are following. I think this would clear up a lot of questions.

I know JW keeps calling themselves Christian, but i do not see why. And Methodist's have altered more of there bibles, so it is difficult talking scripture with they/them (tongue in cheek) :-) Mormon's are in thier own world.

The concepts you have are foreign to many here. Like God being only 2 in One
 
Samson2020.

I was wondering if you would share with us the religion you are following. I think this would clear up a lot of questions.

I know JW keeps calling themselves Christian, but i do not see why. And Methodist's have altered more of there bibles, so it is difficult talking scripture with they/them (tongue in cheek) :) Mormon's are in thier own world.

The concepts you have are foreign to many here. Like God being only 2 in One
I do not follow any religion as a disciple of Jesus Christ He is who I follow. He is not a denomination nor separated in any way.
I speak in tongues, have cast out unclean spirit, have laid hands on the sick which have recovered, been sent by the Lord to do things, all of which were done at His direction, have been kicked out of Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Baptist facilities, some of which I was directed to go back into and when they would not hear were
shuttered or the pastors resigned. I find no where within these organizations are their congregations able to speak the truth that the Holy Ghost shows them.
This causes the separation between even brethren. Some follow other men after conversion, some follow the HG to learn the whole truth.
Those that follow other men will stagnate at the point they subjected themselves to another other than the HG. Thus they remain babes
with a bottle, and are unskillful.
The rulers of those denominations love the praise of men more than the praise of God, and require subjects to praise them. Any one who sees above them
is rejected as they will no longer praise the leader, as they have come to understand its all about the individual relationship between you and the Lord.
Is there no interaction? No, but quite limited, and typically outside the confines of the organization. Anyone who associates with an actual follower of the
Lord is ostracized for it by the organization they attend, and they too must have the fellowship of the group instead of the fellowship of the one.

I hear here and in a lot of places the phrase "IN CONTEXT" the only problem is that the gold nuggets that are in the Bible are left "Here a little, there a little"
The word of God is written like a zigsaw puzzle and without the writer residing in you, you have no chance of uncovering the Mysteries of the word,
Indeed it is written to keep those out who are not called to understand at this time. Maybe this is part of the problem?

I hear also more self righteousness than one can tolerate simply because of the lack of understanding. The scriptures are twisted to make them say
whatever the doctrine they have been taught to regurgitate, mean.
The simple stuff thats red and white, or black and white and factual statements are disregarded in favor of doctrine that can't even be explained.
Does that make sense?

I believe in One True God our Father, and One Jesus Christ who is the Son of God and the mediator between God and man, the High Priest Heb 5:5
of our profession. I believe in the baptism in the Holy Ghost as I have experienced it no doubt. The Lord speaks whenever He has something to
say to you and if one has not heard His voice then what shall we say? "My sheep know my voice" are they His sheep because they say so? Or rather the
workers of Iniquity who will have to depart from Him at that day?

I write according to what I have been taught, not by a man or mans inferior doctrines, but as the Lord hath taught me. If anyone finds my posts offensive
to their religion, then good, maybe they should examine their positions as the Gospel is the good news fro all, but all I hear is how most are gonna roast,
and that is nothing more than a misunderstanding, a lack of rightly dividing the word.
Jesus spoke in parables/riddles so most were left without vision of the kingdom. And those who cling to just that particular portion of the word are still
without vision. That changed after He died with the actual expounding of what His sacrifice bought for all mankind, which Paul presents, even Jesus at
times hinted at those same things.

Every one of us has a spirit that came out from God and was placed in a dust body, including Jesus. God did not do all that He has done to be vengeful
to His own creation. We are not at odds with God by our own choice as we were born into this world with carnal minds on purpose to bring about
His plan. In the end His plan ends with every man being brought into life eternal through Christ Jesus which is the reconciliation of ALL. 1 Co 15:22-23
If one has not attained to that understanding then they are lacking in vision. God only allows some to see this so I do not condemn anyone that cannot see
this as I too was once in most of your shoes. But with maturity and mercy comes greater understanding of our Father and His plan.

Many years ago the Lord said to me to "call unto Him and He would answer me and show me great and mighty things that I did not know" Jer 33:3
(I didn't earn this but by His choice and mercy I received it) I did and He has lived up to His word and shown me more than I ever thought was possible,
but with God all things are possible.
He will show you what you must overcome to be allowed access to the hidden manna, and the white stone with your new name, seen that,
the things that cause some to stumble, some to stay exactly where they are and not grow further, road blocks.

There is only a remnant that are part of this first death dispensation. We can all agree on that, however; the vision is gone past that for the majority
for they have no eyes with which to see His higher purpose for man. That being the creation of sons for Himself that will have all the fullness of
God residing in them such that as Jesus is the spitting Image of His Father so shall we all be. Lowered into Adamic decay from within God
to return to Him as a son where nothing shall be impossible to us. This is His plan, and not because of our choices, is He doing it. As from before the
beginning of time it was His plan. 2 Ti 1:9

Now tell me what about that irks you? Is it they didn't do what I did? They didn't work like I did? What did any of us receive that wasn't a gift? 1 Co 4:7
And if a gift why do we try to work for it afterwards? Out of a feeling of need to pay for it? Can't be done! Gal 3:3
What have I said that causes fear to anyone? Is not the outcome indeed good news for all? Yes but those whom have not been chosen in this
dispensation and in the times prior to Jesus have no choice but to wait until the next dispensation. Even though there will be weeping and
gnashing of teeth there will come a day when they understand it always was Gods choice for them to be vessels of dishonor at least during
this the first death dispensation. Rom 9:21 They will come into the knowledge of the truth. 1 Ti 2:4 but for now they are kept in 1 Ti 3:7

If one understood the Mystery of Iniquity it would become much clearer as to why. We are perfected unto sonship by the things we suffer for
that gospels sake. Jesus was, so will I.
This couldn't happen without those who are not aware of what God is doing through them for the first group. Much less the second.
Thus "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Now I ask would you ever hear such at any organized religious institution? No for they do not know so how could they tell you. Not to mention they
are busy saving the world with your money, so even if they knew, its a job and they need to get paid, build new facilities, fight evil in the world
always looking outside themselves instead of looking at the real enemy within, the carnal mind.

In short who is part of 1 Ti 2:4 now, and who is in the 1Ti 3:7 category at present?

Examine ourselves daily for any self righteousness for it will blind your eyes to the higher things of God.
Jesus did say seek ye first the Kingdom of God AND His righteousness, (BOTH VERY IMPORTANT),THEN all these things will be added unto you.
You cannot attain to any higher righteousness than that which God gifted you, so self righteousness is less than what God gave. Stand only in His
righteousness.
Let anything that says I accepted etc.. depart from your mouth and your heart and possibly you too may become separated from the pack as well.
But if the praise of the pack is what you require then so be it for now. Just remember Jesus was completely alone except for the Father, for no man
understood Him either.

PS ALL religions are traps, especially organized Christianity. They are to be overcome and is why they exist, as an obstacle to your higher spiritual sight.
Just like the Bible itself it will keep out those not intended to know/see at this time.
 
Samson2020

New Add bookmark 1 minute ago #93

Bill said:

I guess I can't understand that thinking of no Trinity.

Samson2020 said:

"It's just that the way it is presented as Co-eternal, co-equal persons.
If the Son is equal to the Father then why did He say that the Father is GREATER than I? John 14:28
If the Son was co-eternal then why was it necessary for the Father to give life to the Son to have within Himself? John 5:26

The progression of life giving is presented in John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given unto us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
The same life Jesus received from His Father to give to us. If Jesus needed to receive it to be able to give it then He wasn't God to begin with, but was as
the Bible states a MAN just like us who became a life giving spirit."

You are right, they can not be equal, unless they are as One

To me the trinity is like a candle. The candle has three parts: the wax, the fire, the wick.

I think about the wax like it was Jesus, as we see the candle of the beauty of the candle what it's made of How It's formed. It's like looking at the life of Jesus.

The fire, like the Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus. So if you see a candle burning at a distance and you come to look at it then you see the beauty of the candle itself. Maybe smell the aroma of the wax. It's the way of the Holy Spirit that draws us to Jesus.

The wick I look at as God the Father. Because when we know of God the father is just a little peace just a little bit.

As the wax Burns only a little bit of the wick is revealed. And as Jesus says you have to go through him to get to the Father who is in heaven.
---------------
The mystery of God is very unique. The Trinity that is One God United, has three entities that are all individuals. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit.

They are not equal. God the Father is hidden and is only revealed by the Son, Jesus. Jesus often says things like only the Father knows. And it's written in Scripture that the father created everything for his Son Jesus. The mention of the Holy Spirit comes from Jesus saying I will send the Paraclete.

And we experience the Holy Spirit who comes down on the apostles with tongues of flame. And they are filled with the Anointing of the Holy Spirit.

I'm bringing the subject up because of a couple of our members who do not believe in the Trinity. And think of it as a diabolical scheme, I think that was their words.

Let us have a civil discussion, without name calling. And let us try to understand why or why not to believe in the Trinity
I was raised believing that the trinity doctrine is not biblical. It actually came about at 325 CE at the council of Nicea. I believe that the late Bryan Huie explained oneness best. When the antichrist comes, he will claim to be Almighty God himself. If you believe in the trinity, you may just believe him as they believe there are 3 in 1. My personal experience is if you ask 3 different Christians what the trinity is, you will get 3 different answers.

JOHN 17:11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be ONE [hen] even as We are. (NASU)

 
I do not follow any religion as a disciple of Jesus Christ He is who I follow. He is not a denomination nor separated in any way.
I speak in tongues, have cast out unclean spirit, have laid hands on the sick which have recovered, been sent by the Lord to do things, all of which were done at His direction, have been kicked out of Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Baptist facilities, some of which I was directed to go back into and when they would not hear were
shuttered or the pastors resigned. I find no where within these organizations are their congregations able to speak the truth that the Holy Ghost shows them.
This causes the separation between even brethren. Some follow other men after conversion, some follow the HG to learn the whole truth.
Those that follow other men will stagnate at the point they subjected themselves to another other than the HG. Thus they remain babes
with a bottle, and are unskillful.
The rulers of those denominations love the praise of men more than the praise of God, and require subjects to praise them. Any one who sees above them
is rejected as they will no longer praise the leader, as they have come to understand its all about the individual relationship between you and the Lord.
Is there no interaction? No, but quite limited, and typically outside the confines of the organization. Anyone who associates with an actual follower of the
Lord is ostracized for it by the organization they attend, and they too must have the fellowship of the group instead of the fellowship of the one.

I hear here and in a lot of places the phrase "IN CONTEXT" the only problem is that the gold nuggets that are in the Bible are left "Here a little, there a little"
The word of God is written like a zigsaw puzzle and without the writer residing in you, you have no chance of uncovering the Mysteries of the word,
Indeed it is written to keep those out who are not called to understand at this time. Maybe this is part of the problem?

I hear also more self righteousness than one can tolerate simply because of the lack of understanding. The scriptures are twisted to make them say
whatever the doctrine they have been taught to regurgitate, mean.
The simple stuff thats red and white, or black and white and factual statements are disregarded in favor of doctrine that can't even be explained.
Does that make sense?

I believe in One True God our Father, and One Jesus Christ who is the Son of God and the mediator between God and man, the High Priest Heb 5:5
of our profession. I believe in the baptism in the Holy Ghost as I have experienced it no doubt. The Lord speaks whenever He has something to
say to you and if one has not heard His voice then what shall we say? "My sheep know my voice" are they His sheep because they say so? Or rather the
workers of Iniquity who will have to depart from Him at that day?

I write according to what I have been taught, not by a man or mans inferior doctrines, but as the Lord hath taught me. If anyone finds my posts offensive
to their religion, then good, maybe they should examine their positions as the Gospel is the good news fro all, but all I hear is how most are gonna roast,
and that is nothing more than a misunderstanding, a lack of rightly dividing the word.
Jesus spoke in parables/riddles so most were left without vision of the kingdom. And those who cling to just that particular portion of the word are still
without vision. That changed after He died with the actual expounding of what His sacrifice bought for all mankind, which Paul presents, even Jesus at
times hinted at those same things.

Every one of us has a spirit that came out from God and was placed in a dust body, including Jesus. God did not do all that He has done to be vengeful
to His own creation. We are not at odds with God by our own choice as we were born into this world with carnal minds on purpose to bring about
His plan. In the end His plan ends with every man being brought into life eternal through Christ Jesus which is the reconciliation of ALL. 1 Co 15:22-23
If one has not attained to that understanding then they are lacking in vision. God only allows some to see this so I do not condemn anyone that cannot see
this as I too was once in most of your shoes. But with maturity and mercy comes greater understanding of our Father and His plan.

Many years ago the Lord said to me to "call unto Him and He would answer me and show me great and mighty things that I did not know" Jer 33:3
(I didn't earn this but by His choice and mercy I received it) I did and He has lived up to His word and shown me more than I ever thought was possible,
but with God all things are possible.
He will show you what you must overcome to be allowed access to the hidden manna, and the white stone with your new name, seen that,
the things that cause some to stumble, some to stay exactly where they are and not grow further, road blocks.

There is only a remnant that are part of this first death dispensation. We can all agree on that, however; the vision is gone past that for the majority
for they have no eyes with which to see His higher purpose for man. That being the creation of sons for Himself that will have all the fullness of
God residing in them such that as Jesus is the spitting Image of His Father so shall we all be. Lowered into Adamic decay from within God
to return to Him as a son where nothing shall be impossible to us. This is His plan, and not because of our choices, is He doing it. As from before the
beginning of time it was His plan. 2 Ti 1:9

Now tell me what about that irks you? Is it they didn't do what I did? They didn't work like I did? What did any of us receive that wasn't a gift? 1 Co 4:7
And if a gift why do we try to work for it afterwards? Out of a feeling of need to pay for it? Can't be done! Gal 3:3
What have I said that causes fear to anyone? Is not the outcome indeed good news for all? Yes but those whom have not been chosen in this
dispensation and in the times prior to Jesus have no choice but to wait until the next dispensation. Even though there will be weeping and
gnashing of teeth there will come a day when they understand it always was Gods choice for them to be vessels of dishonor at least during
this the first death dispensation. Rom 9:21 They will come into the knowledge of the truth. 1 Ti 2:4 but for now they are kept in 1 Ti 3:7

If one understood the Mystery of Iniquity it would become much clearer as to why. We are perfected unto sonship by the things we suffer for
that gospels sake. Jesus was, so will I.
This couldn't happen without those who are not aware of what God is doing through them for the first group. Much less the second.
Thus "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Now I ask would you ever hear such at any organized religious institution? No for they do not know so how could they tell you. Not to mention they
are busy saving the world with your money, so even if they knew, its a job and they need to get paid, build new facilities, fight evil in the world
always looking outside themselves instead of looking at the real enemy within, the carnal mind.

In short who is part of 1 Ti 2:4 now, and who is in the 1Ti 3:7 category at present?

Examine ourselves daily for any self righteousness for it will blind your eyes to the higher things of God.
Jesus did say seek ye first the Kingdom of God AND His righteousness, (BOTH VERY IMPORTANT),THEN all these things will be added unto you.
You cannot attain to any higher righteousness than that which God gifted you, so self righteousness is less than what God gave. Stand only in His
righteousness.
Let anything that says I accepted etc.. depart from your mouth and your heart and possibly you too may become separated from the pack as well.
But if the praise of the pack is what you require then so be it for now. Just remember Jesus was completely alone except for the Father, for no man
understood Him either.

PS ALL religions are traps, especially organized Christianity. They are to be overcome and is why they exist, as an obstacle to your higher spiritual sight.
Just like the Bible itself it will keep out those not intended to know/see at this time.
V I will have to read all of the contents later as I just don't have the time at the moment to do that.

May the lord always bless us

I read the very first few lines that you rode and deed felt his presence of the spirit within you, even though you don't acknowledge the spirit as God. Or maybe I'm missing something.

As we know in the Old Testament the spirit of God filled people like Elijah and others and they in turn did the will of God and had Faith to use the gifts even though they didn't know they were gifts in the first place. They just had their faith in God.

Kind of the irony of your words before where you recognized the father and the son. The Jews on the other hand recognize God in the spirit of God but they did not recognize the son Jesus.

I'm sharing with you this because I think it's important for everyone here to realize that just because a person does not understand or does not recognize one of the parts of God as in your case the spirit or in the case of the Israelites Jesus does not mean that God cannot work through that person to achieve his own goals.

If I could say one thing to you though. Don't be so condemning of those of us that believe in the spirit is being God too because obviously God work through as I said Elijah, and that should show you something that there is a spirit of God as well
 
I do not follow any religion as a disciple of Jesus Christ He is who I follow. He is not a denomination nor separated in any way.
I speak in tongues, have cast out unclean spirit, have laid hands on the sick which have recovered, been sent by the Lord to do things, all of which were done at His direction, have been kicked out of Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Baptist facilities, some of which I was directed to go back into and when they would not hear were
shuttered or the pastors resigned. I find no where within these organizations are their congregations able to speak the truth that the Holy Ghost shows them.
This causes the separation between even brethren. Some follow other men after conversion, some follow the HG to learn the whole truth.
Those that follow other men will stagnate at the point they subjected themselves to another other than the HG. Thus they remain babes
with a bottle, and are unskillful.
The rulers of those denominations love the praise of men more than the praise of God, and require subjects to praise them. Any one who sees above them
is rejected as they will no longer praise the leader, as they have come to understand its all about the individual relationship between you and the Lord.
Is there no interaction? No, but quite limited, and typically outside the confines of the organization. Anyone who associates with an actual follower of the
Lord is ostracized for it by the organization they attend, and they too must have the fellowship of the group instead of the fellowship of the one.

I hear here and in a lot of places the phrase "IN CONTEXT" the only problem is that the gold nuggets that are in the Bible are left "Here a little, there a little"
The word of God is written like a zigsaw puzzle and without the writer residing in you, you have no chance of uncovering the Mysteries of the word,
Indeed it is written to keep those out who are not called to understand at this time. Maybe this is part of the problem?

I hear also more self righteousness than one can tolerate simply because of the lack of understanding. The scriptures are twisted to make them say
whatever the doctrine they have been taught to regurgitate, mean.
The simple stuff thats red and white, or black and white and factual statements are disregarded in favor of doctrine that can't even be explained.
Does that make sense?

I believe in One True God our Father, and One Jesus Christ who is the Son of God and the mediator between God and man, the High Priest Heb 5:5
of our profession. I believe in the baptism in the Holy Ghost as I have experienced it no doubt. The Lord speaks whenever He has something to
say to you and if one has not heard His voice then what shall we say? "My sheep know my voice" are they His sheep because they say so? Or rather the
workers of Iniquity who will have to depart from Him at that day?

I write according to what I have been taught, not by a man or mans inferior doctrines, but as the Lord hath taught me. If anyone finds my posts offensive
to their religion, then good, maybe they should examine their positions as the Gospel is the good news fro all, but all I hear is how most are gonna roast,
and that is nothing more than a misunderstanding, a lack of rightly dividing the word.
Jesus spoke in parables/riddles so most were left without vision of the kingdom. And those who cling to just that particular portion of the word are still
without vision. That changed after He died with the actual expounding of what His sacrifice bought for all mankind, which Paul presents, even Jesus at
times hinted at those same things.

Every one of us has a spirit that came out from God and was placed in a dust body, including Jesus. God did not do all that He has done to be vengeful
to His own creation. We are not at odds with God by our own choice as we were born into this world with carnal minds on purpose to bring about
His plan. In the end His plan ends with every man being brought into life eternal through Christ Jesus which is the reconciliation of ALL. 1 Co 15:22-23
If one has not attained to that understanding then they are lacking in vision. God only allows some to see this so I do not condemn anyone that cannot see
this as I too was once in most of your shoes. But with maturity and mercy comes greater understanding of our Father and His plan.

Many years ago the Lord said to me to "call unto Him and He would answer me and show me great and mighty things that I did not know" Jer 33:3
(I didn't earn this but by His choice and mercy I received it) I did and He has lived up to His word and shown me more than I ever thought was possible,
but with God all things are possible.
He will show you what you must overcome to be allowed access to the hidden manna, and the white stone with your new name, seen that,
the things that cause some to stumble, some to stay exactly where they are and not grow further, road blocks.

There is only a remnant that are part of this first death dispensation. We can all agree on that, however; the vision is gone past that for the majority
for they have no eyes with which to see His higher purpose for man. That being the creation of sons for Himself that will have all the fullness of
God residing in them such that as Jesus is the spitting Image of His Father so shall we all be. Lowered into Adamic decay from within God
to return to Him as a son where nothing shall be impossible to us. This is His plan, and not because of our choices, is He doing it. As from before the
beginning of time it was His plan. 2 Ti 1:9

Now tell me what about that irks you? Is it they didn't do what I did? They didn't work like I did? What did any of us receive that wasn't a gift? 1 Co 4:7
And if a gift why do we try to work for it afterwards? Out of a feeling of need to pay for it? Can't be done! Gal 3:3
What have I said that causes fear to anyone? Is not the outcome indeed good news for all? Yes but those whom have not been chosen in this
dispensation and in the times prior to Jesus have no choice but to wait until the next dispensation. Even though there will be weeping and
gnashing of teeth there will come a day when they understand it always was Gods choice for them to be vessels of dishonor at least during
this the first death dispensation. Rom 9:21 They will come into the knowledge of the truth. 1 Ti 2:4 but for now they are kept in 1 Ti 3:7

If one understood the Mystery of Iniquity it would become much clearer as to why. We are perfected unto sonship by the things we suffer for
that gospels sake. Jesus was, so will I.
This couldn't happen without those who are not aware of what God is doing through them for the first group. Much less the second.
Thus "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Now I ask would you ever hear such at any organized religious institution? No for they do not know so how could they tell you. Not to mention they
are busy saving the world with your money, so even if they knew, its a job and they need to get paid, build new facilities, fight evil in the world
always looking outside themselves instead of looking at the real enemy within, the carnal mind.

In short who is part of 1 Ti 2:4 now, and who is in the 1Ti 3:7 category at present?

Examine ourselves daily for any self righteousness for it will blind your eyes to the higher things of God.
Jesus did say seek ye first the Kingdom of God AND His righteousness, (BOTH VERY IMPORTANT),THEN all these things will be added unto you.
You cannot attain to any higher righteousness than that which God gifted you, so self righteousness is less than what God gave. Stand only in His
righteousness.
Let anything that says I accepted etc.. depart from your mouth and your heart and possibly you too may become separated from the pack as well.
But if the praise of the pack is what you require then so be it for now. Just remember Jesus was completely alone except for the Father, for no man
understood Him either.

PS ALL religions are traps, especially organized Christianity. They are to be overcome and is why they exist, as an obstacle to your higher spiritual sight.
Just like the Bible itself it will keep out those not intended to know/see at this time.
You said "There is only a remnant that are part of this first death dispensation. " Can you give scripture? I've always believed that there will be few alive followers of the Way who are quickened at Yeshua's return; however, there will be millions possibly billions who are resurrected from the dead when Yeshua returns.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 New King James Version (NKJV)Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing ... (The dead awaiting revenge from the Almighty for sins committed against them/God's people).
 
Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could count, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing ... (The dead awaiting revenge from the Almighty for sins committed against them/God's people)
No. You have to understand that Jesus died for ALL men. Just as ALL were condemned by Adams disobedience ALL have been justified unto life by the crucifixion
of Jesus. Rom 5:18
Second if you will examine what gets thrown into the lake of fire you should find the beast(governments), the false prophet(false religions), Satan, death,
hell(the grave), and everybody not found written in the book of life of the lamb.
Now what of those things is not present in this dipspensation? Or first death. It is a resetting of the necessary ingredients to bring about another harvest
of Gods chosen children.
The verses in 1 Co 15:22-23 As in Adam(flesh) ALL die, even so IN CHRIST shall ALL be MADE ALIVE, but every man in his own order.............
There is nothing that can stop God from gifting initial salvation whenever He chooses, and to whomever He chooses for it is a gift that cannot be obtained
any other way. This is Gods righteousness. If it has not been gifted then the Kingdom is hidden.
In Rev 7:9 it shows a picture of the end of Gods plan in that ALL have become alive in Christ and are glorifying Him because of it.

The last enemy of the cross is death. Death only has power due to sin. That sin has been paid for by Jesus, and when the last man enters into the
life bought for Him by the sacrifice of the Son, death will have no dominion anymore.
Otherwise death would hold everyone in the grave(hell) and it is an enemy destroyed prior to death.

If you are spiritual at all then read Isa 59:21 and tell me what you see even though it may be hard to say, what does your spirit tell you?
This is God speaking to Jesus prior to His coming.
 
I thought Br Bill it was obvious I left the Trinity discussion long ago. It only becomes fuel for the fire that subverts everything else.
 
Dear @Samson2020
Question with follow up: If Universalist is what you are, then why are you so concerned about those who believe in the Trinity being wrong, when there are so many other religions as you are aware of that don't even come that close in their belief, or non-belief in One God, or even Son of God, much less the Holy Spirit, and yet will all live? Unless the belief has to do with where they will live the life they will have, which would be with God or separate from Him?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
When the comforter came,Christ could be everywhere all over the world at the same time because he is Spirit.
Christ while in the flesh was limited to whatever area he was in.
While Christ was on earth, his spirit may have been entirely contained within his body according to the limits prescribed by the Father. Everything he wanted to know outside the normal 5 senses would have come to him through prayer to the father. The text seems to imply he was not omniscient, and only heard peoples thoughts on occasion, not all the time. -as we are today.

For some, such as Elijah, it was not sin for him to be outside his body, as recorded when he tells his servant "did you not know i was with you in spirit?" But this was not frequent. As another man said to the kin of syria iirc "thr jews have prophets who can hear the words you speak in your bedroom".. but this was not all the time.

Jesus may have been outside his body on occasion, but while on earth he would have been mostly subjected to the limits of time and physical space.

Now that he is in heaven outside of time, Jesus can speak immediately to anyone on earth. Ever notice that 99% of the time people cant distinguish the difference between Jesus speaking to them vs thr Holy Spirit? -maybe you should think about that.

Most of the older mature christians i know, focus most on their relationship with God and the voice of Jesus. Not the holy Spirit.
 
I thought Br Bill it was obvious I left the Trinity discussion long ago. It only becomes fuel for the fire that subverts everything else.
The Trinity discussion is what this thread is about, and i am the one that started it.

You have spoken about your experience of casting out devils and many other things. This i accept and understand. Now let us see if you can accept my experience.

I have seen all Three Persons of the Trinity.

In my spiritual work, the Angel who works for me, will recieve the work the Holy Spirit has for us to do. Mostly heavy spiritual warfare. I work with millions of Angels.

I tell you this so you can see there are others who do simular work. There are a couple other people here at Talk Jesus that do the same type of work i do. I am just more talkative about it.

There are others in this world, some who are not Christian's as members of talk Jesus would think, that are on our side.

Remember Jesus said, if they are not against us, they are for us.

So now, it is not my place to teach you of the Holy Spirit. God will teach, if it is nessecary.

For those of you that may wonder how i know Samson2020 already has the Spirit. He stated he cast out demons. This is very important.
Scripture shows us, the devil can not cast itself out. And humans do not have the authority on thier own. So the Spirit has to be with him
 
Dear @Samson2020
Question with follow up: If Universalist is what you are, then why are you so concerned about those who believe in the Trinity being wrong, when there are so many other religions as you are aware of that don't even come that close in their belief, or non-belief in One God, or even Son of God, much less the Holy Spirit, and yet will all live? Unless the belief has to do with where they will live the life they will have, which would be with God or separate from Him?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
Out of curiosity, did he call himself a Universalist? That is one of the few teachings i have not studied (to understand how they think)
 
While Christ was on earth, his spirit may have been entirely contained within his body according to the limits prescribed by the Father. Everything he wanted to know outside the normal 5 senses would have come to him through prayer to the father. The text seems to imply he was not omniscient, and only heard peoples thoughts on occasion, not all the time. -as we are today.

For some, such as Elijah, it was not sin for him to be outside his body, as recorded when he tells his servant "did you not know i was with you in spirit?" But this was not frequent. As another man said to the kin of syria iirc "thr jews have prophets who can hear the words you speak in your bedroom".. but this was not all the time.

Jesus may have been outside his body on occasion, but while on earth he would have been mostly subjected to the limits of time and physical space.

Now that he is in heaven outside of time, Jesus can speak immediately to anyone on earth. Ever notice that 99% of the time people cant distinguish the difference between Jesus speaking to them vs thr Holy Spirit? -maybe you should think about that.

Most of the older mature christians i know, focus most on their relationship with God and the voice of Jesus. Not the holy Spirit.
That was very well written, you have good understanding of the spiritual.

My relationship with God is "different" lol. I would say almost 100% of my conversation is with God the Father. And this is often on a daily basis. The Holy Spirit is very involved in my life because of the spiritual work i am involved in. I experience Jesus, but He always directs me to the Father.

I can distinguish between the voices of God the Father, Jesus, and know the movement of the Holy Spirit, whether in me or others. On 2 occasions i heard the voice of the Trinity as One. Way more powerful than the Father and overwhelming.

I hope this helps you in your understanding
 
Out of curiosity, did he call himself a Universalist? That is one of the few teachings i have not studied (to understand how they think)
Dear Brother,
Clearly that is what he believes. A Universalist is a person who believes that all humankind will eventually be saved. In his case, he also believes Satan and all the fallen angels will also. I am trying to refine the particulars, of his belief. "Universalist" is what comes closest to what he seems to ascribe to. So, my question to him in my last post.

I used "live" in my post instead of saved, because "saved" connotes many different things to some folks, so "live" seemed more appropriate to what he has said will happen to all creation at least scripturally speaking that is.

If you'd like you can go to the top of any page and type in Universalist, and postings of his will come up, amongst others as well. However, how receptive he will be to replying since I have warned him that this belief is not compatible to the tenets of Talk Jesus, I do not know. We shall see. Oh, the telling word in scripture for him is "ALL". The implication is that when used there is no exception, separation or deviation as being accepted when "ALL" is used.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Out of curiosity, did he call himself a Universalist?


Yes, he has.
 
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