There is no trinity in John 1:1

[Butch5]

Joh 5:18 So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God. (NLT)

That's shows that the Jews misunderstood. Jesus didn't think He was equal with God. We have the New Testament, they didn't. We are told expressly that Jesus didn't think He was equal with God, why do Christians?

 

[Curtis]

,But a likeness of something still isn't the thing itself. We don't say the Father is the likeness of God. He is God. If Jesus is the likeness of God, He's not the God He's the likeness of. Why defend the indefensible?

Which indicates that He wasn't God at the time John wrote.

Jesus came in the "likeness" of sinful flesh. Another translation says he came in the guise (disguise) of sinful flesh.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (KJV)

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice], [Lev_7:37] (AMP)

Not until Jesus took Peter, James, and John up to the mount of Transfiguration did Jesus reveal who he really was.

Mat 17:1 AND SIX days after this, Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 And His appearance underwent a change in their presence, and His face shone clear and bright like the sun, and His clothing became as white as light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, who kept talking with Him.
Mat 17:4 Then Peter began to speak and said to Jesus, Lord, it is good and delightful that we are here; if You approve, I will put up three booths here--one for You and one for Moses and one for Elijah.
Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a shining cloud [composed of light] overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, This is My Son, My Beloved, with Whom I am [and have always been] delighted. Listen to Him! [Psa_2:7; Isa_42:1] (AMP_

 

[Curtis]

Correct. But, no one part is the whole body.

That's right, but one part is representative of the whole. This is why Jesus said, "he that sees me sees the Father."

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Curtis]

That's shows that the Jews misunderstood. Jesus didn't think He was equal with God. We have the New Testament, they didn't. We are told expressly that Jesus didn't think He was equal with God, why do Christians?

The Jews were not deceived by what Jesus was claiming to be. They got it right!

 

[Butch5]

Jesus came in the "likeness" of sinful flesh. Another translation says he came in the guise (disguise) of sinful flesh.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (KJV)

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice], [Lev_7:37] (AMP)

Not until Jesus took Peter, James, and John up to the mount of Transfiguration did Jesus reveal who he really was.

Mat 17:1 AND SIX days after this, Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 And His appearance underwent a change in their presence, and His face shone clear and bright like the sun, and His clothing became as white as light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, who kept talking with Him.
Mat 17:4 Then Peter began to speak and said to Jesus, Lord, it is good and delightful that we are here; if You approve, I will put up three booths here--one for You and one for Moses and one for Elijah.
Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a shining cloud [composed of light] overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, This is My Son, My Beloved, with Whom I am [and have always been] delighted. Listen to Him! [Psa_2:7; Isa_42:1] (AMP_

Not sure what your point is here.

 

[Butch5]

The Jews were not deceived by what Jesus was claiming to be. They got it right!

Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the Son of God.

 

[Butch5]

That's right, but one part is representative of the whole. This is why Jesus said, "he that sees me sees the Father."

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

But a representation isn't the thing it represents.

 

[Butch5]

@Curtis, have you considered that you are trying to refute Scripture?

 

[Curtis]

But a representation isn't the thing it represents.

let me ask you does God have a body?

 

[Butch5]

let me ask you does God have a body?

Not flesh

 

[Garee]

Did you actually READ John 1:1? The Word was with God? and the Word was God....there you two parts of our triune God. Jesus IS the Word of God. When you read the Word, don't do it alone...You have the Holy Spirit to teach you....Listen to Him! Not to your own intelligence.

Why three?

God is Spirit. His words that he speaks are spiritual as a law of faith . . "Let there be" witnessed by the testimony "it was good"

One God who promised to reveal himself during the 3 day and night promised demonstration of the lamb slain during the first six days the father did work .

Two is the witness God spoke. (dynamic dual). Three denotes the end of a matter. Three' is a crowd .

 

[Curtis]

Not flesh

God is a Spirit and he is invisible to physical eyes, but he does have a body.

Speaking of Jesus Christ the scripture says….

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

In Christ dwells ALL the FULNESS of the Godhead BODILY.

Gods body is Jesus Christ.

How will you know God when you see him? Who will you see?

you will see Jesus Christ because God the Father lives in his fulness in Jesus.

Joh 10:38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”

 

[Butch5]

God is a Spirit and he is invisible to physical eyes, but he does have a body.

Speaking of Jesus Christ the scripture says….

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

In Christ dwells ALL the FULNESS of the Godhead BODILY.

Gods body is Jesus Christ.

How will you know God when you see him? Who will you see?

you will see Jesus Christ because God the Father lives in his fulness in Jesus.

Joh 10:38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”

There is no "the Godhead". It's the old English term for godhood. It's like fatherhood or motherhood. It's godhood. In Jesus dwell the fullness of godhood.

God is wind. What does that mean? Does wind have a body?

 

[Curtis]

There is no "the Godhead". It's the old English term for godhood. It's like fatherhood or motherhood. It's godhood. In Jesus dwell the fullness of godhood.

God is wind. What does that mean? Does wind have a body?

"Godhead"

θεότης
theótēs; gen. theótētos, fem. noun from Theós (G2316), God. Deity, Godhead as directly revealed, God's personality (Col_2:9), as distinguished from theiótēs (G2305) in Rom_1:20, divinity or divine power and majesty, a concept arrived at by observing God's mighty works.

(AMPC) For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

(AMPC+) For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].


(ASV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

(BBE) For in him all the wealth of God's being has a living form,

(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.

(Darby) For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;

(EMTV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

(ERV) I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth.

(ESV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

(ESV+) For R18in him the whole fullness of deity dwells R19bodily
,
(GNB) For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ, in his humanity,

(GW) All of God lives in Christ's body,

(ISV) because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.

(Moffatt NT) It is in Christ that the entire Fulness of deity has settled bodily,

(JUB) For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,

(KJV) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(KJV+) ForG3754 inG1722 himG846 dwellethG2730 allG3956 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 GodheadG2320 bodily.G4985

(LITV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

(Murdock) in whom dwelleth all the fullness of the Divinity corporeally.

(NAS77) For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

(NASB) For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

(NASB+) For in Him allG3956 the R1fullnessG4138 of DeityG2320 dwellsG2730 in bodilyG4985 formG4985,

(NET) For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,

(NET.) For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,

(NIrV) God's whole nature is living in Christ in human form.

(NIV) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

(NIV84) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

(NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

(NLT) For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

(Remedy) For Jesus Christ is God in human flesh. Jesus is the very nature and substance of Divinity manifested in humanity; he is the channel through which God’s character, methods and principles flow into mankind,

(RV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

 

[Rhema]

In his review of the New World Translation that forms part of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures,

I'm sorry, that sentence doesn't make sense to me. The NWT doesn't form part of the KIT. They are two separate stand alone books.

Whenever JW's stop by to chat, I always have them use the KIT to present their spiel. The utter confusion and chaos is quite enjoyable.

Might you be a JW, by the way ???

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Come on Rhema, you know that is a false argument.

No, I don't. And I recall posting on the problems of taking the Greek article and placing significant theological weight on its absence or presence. It's a fools game to do so.

And I've already provided my English translation of the John 1:1 in Post #2.

(John 1:1 RFV) The Pattern (λογος) was suffused throughout the cosmic protoplasm, and the Pattern was only of the Divine Good, and Sovereign is the Pattern.​

Remember "all scripture in inspired by God.

Since you seem quite comfortable making arguments based on the Greek language, then, you can read Greek, yes?

If so, then you'd better read through this again.

(2Ti 3:14-16 TR) συ δε μενε εν οις εμαθες και επιστωθης ειδως παρα τινος εμαθες και οτι απο βρεφους τα ιερα γραμματα οιδας τα δυναμενα σε σοφισαι εις σωτηριαν δια πιστεως της εν χριστω ιησου πασα γραφη θεοπνευστος και ωφελιμος προς διδασκαλιαν προς ελεγχον προς επανορθωσιν προς παιδειαν την εν δικαιοσυνη ​

Because that does NOT say "all scripture is inspired by God"... Far from it.

I look forward to your translation.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Two twins could an exact likeness.

Getting warmer.....

 

[Rhema]

Gods body is Jesus Christ.

How will you know God when you see him? Who will you see?

you will see Jesus Christ because God the Father lives in his fulness in Jesus.

I've run into this before, although rarely.

(deleted)

Your words, Curtis, seem to indicate that Jesus and the Father are NOT separate persons. Is that your position?

Seems like a bit of Modalism being expressed here.

Rhema

 

[Curtis]

I've run into this before, although rarely.

Jesus... the meat puppet of God.

Your words, Curtis, seem to indicate that Jesus and the Father are NOT separate persons. Is that your position?

Seems like a bit of Modalism being expressed here.

Rhema

Jesus is not God the Father or the Holy Spirit. God the father is an invisible Spirit which no man has seen yet he does have a body which is Jesus Christ. All through Jesus ministry he claimed his father was living inside him and that he lived inside of his Father For they are one. The scriptures reveal that Jesus is the “brightness” of God,s glory.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The invisible image of God can be seen in Jesus. God is light but he also surrounds himself in light which is Jesus Christ.

Psa 104:1 Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, You are very great; You have put on honor and majesty,
Psa 104:2 covering Yourself with light as with a robe; and stretching out the heavens like a curtain;

Revelation of God is seen in His light.

Psa 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Jesus said….

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Curtis]

Col 1:15 [Now] He is the  N1 exact likeness of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible]; He is the Firstborn of all creation. (Amp)