Were they right?

[David777]

Hello Brakelite.

Do you adhere to the following...

The Seventh-day Adventist Church holds a unique system of eschatological (or end-times) beliefs. Adventist eschatology, which is based on a historicist interpretation of prophecy, is characterised principally by the premillennial Second Coming of Christ. Traditionally, the church has taught that the Second Coming will be preceded by a global crisis with the Sabbath as a central issue. At Jesus' return, the righteous will be taken to heaven for one thousand years. After the millennium the unsaved will be punished by annihilation while the saved will live on a recreated Earth for eternity.
The foremost sources are the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. Jesus' statements in Matthew 24 for instance, as well as many other Bible verses are also used. The classic Adventist commentary on the end-times was Uriah Smith's Daniel and the Revelation. The writings of Ellen G. White have also been highly influential, particularly the last part of her book The Great Controversy. "Prophecy seminars", developed since the mid-20th century, have been a key popular source. (Wikipedia)


Just curious brakelite?

 

[rodd]

Protestants believe in grace through faith alone.

Catholics believe in grace through faith and submission the their churches teachings on sacrements and rites and works merit, other than grace merit.
So its faith/works.

As Paul would put it, "another Gospel" other than what he preached.

 

[Christ4Ever]

What is Maryology?

Found this which might give you a brief overview. Had some other papers on this, haven't been able to find it. But a quick search provided me the below. Hope it helps. Doesn't deal with the current view which is a paper all by its self. Search Mary sightings. You'll be surprised. You are correct in your other statement that it sounds like a cult. Very much in the fabric of RCC. Has papal support.
--------------------------------------------------------------

The commonly held teachings of Mariology can be derived from her function as Mother of God (Theotokos), a term first used around 320 and formally approved by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Mariologists argue that Mary, who enabled God the Savior to be born, has a position more exalted than any other creature. She is the Queen of Heaven. Moreover, since her motherhood was indispensable to God's redemptive activity, Mary is essential to the final, spiritual perfection of every creature. Accordingly, although she was not involved in their original physical creation, Mary is, in this ultimate sense, the Mother of God's Creatures. This includes being Mother of Humans, a title found in Ambrose but popularized around 1100, and Mother of Angels, a term first found in the thirteenth century.

Mary's involvement in salvation makes her co-redemptrix along with Christ. Irenaeus contrasted Eve's disobedience, which brought humanity's downfall, with Mary's obedience, which "became the cause of salvation both for herself and the human race." Beginning in the twelfth century references appear to her redemptive work not only in Christ's birth but also at the cross. Most Mariologists insist on both. While Jesus offered his sinless person to appease God's wrath, Mary, whose will was perfectly harmonious with his, offered her prayers. Both atoned for our sins, although Christ's satisfaction was primary and wholly sufficient. Mary's mediatory role includes her present intercession for sinners. This was seldom mentioned before the twelfth century, when popular piety regarded Mary as more lenient than her Son, the Judge.

Mary's exalted role implies Mariological assertions about her life. If Mary had ever been stained by sin, she would have been God's enemy and unfit to bear him. Consequently, she must have been "immaculate" (wholly free from any sin) from the instant she was conceived. The immaculate conception, hotly debated in the Middle Ages and early modern era, was opposed by Thomas Aquinas and his followers. But in 1854 Pius IX declared it an official dogma.

Mary's immaculate conception implies that she possessed a "fullness of grace" from the first instant. Further, she was immune to the slightest sin throughout her life. Mariologists also stress Mary's perpetual virginity. This includes, first, her virginity in partu: that Jesus was born without opening any part of her body; second, that she remained a virgin throughout her life. Though Mary's perpetual virginity, and especially her sinlessness, were challenged by some early fathers, they were generally accepted by Augustine's time. Proponents of perpetual virginity often assumed that anything else would contradict her purity. Finally, Mariologists teach that after her death Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. No clear reference to the assumption of Mary appears before the sixth century. It was not generally accepted until the thirteenth and was promulgated by Pius XII in 1950.

Protestants have criticized Mariology because many assertions apparently lack biblical foundation. Scripture does not mention her immaculate conception or assumption. Her perpetual virginity is challenged by references to Jesus' sisters and brothers (Mark 3:31; 6:3; John 2:12; 7:1 - 10; Acts 1:14; Gal. 1:19; Mariologists claim they were cousins). Moreover, the Gospels do not present Mary unambiguously as sinless and in continuous accord with Christ's will. Protestants have also argued that Mariology exaggerates the contribution that any human can make to divine redemption. Luther and Calvin saw Mary as a human who in herself was nothing; she was enabled to bear Christ wholly through God's grace. Conservative Protestants argue that most Mariological excesses, her roles as Mother of God's Creatures, co - redemptrix, intercessor; her immaculate conception; and her "fullness of grace", spring from overestimating the human role in redemption, which was perhaps already implied by Irenaeus. This ancient theological issue may be the most fundamental one surrounding Mariology.
- T.N. Finger, Elwell Evangelical Dictionary

 

[David777]

Hello Christ4Ever.

Thanks for the info, why do cults associated with the Bible always, always, corrupt the scriptures.

Now, I have to ask you Christ4Ever are you associated with the Seventh Day Adventists?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thanks for the info, why do cults associated with the Bible always, always, corrupt the scriptures.

Now, I have to ask you Christ4Ever are you associated with the Seventh Day Adventists?

We must; all of us continue to share if we're aware of the pitfalls that others may not see or even realize are there in a deceived world. Hope outside of Jesus is no hope at all.

No I'm not associated with the Seventh Day Adventists, even though as a child I remember visiting one of their churches in NYC. Why do you ask Brother?

 

[David777]

Yo Christ4Ever.

Some of the posts in this thread sound like SDA eschatology.

All protestant churches fall under the spell of the antichrist.

All protestant churches join up with the Catholic Church.

The pope is the antichrist, Sunday worship is enforced.

Guess which remnant church is persecuted? The Seventh Day Adventists.

Sure appears that way.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Some of the posts in this thread sound like SDA eschatology.

All protestant churches fall under the spell of the antichrist.

All protestant churches join up with the Catholic Church.

The pope is the antichrist, Sunday worship is enforced.

Guess which remnant church is persecuted? The Seventh Day Adventists.

Sure appears that way.

Dear David777
Keep in mind that brother brakelite is doing this as a study, which if flawed, will be revealed, and as in any study should be questioned, to ascertain to its scriptural validity. So to attribute it to this or that instead of on its own merits would be doing an injustice to a brother in Christ Jesus. However, if you feel he may have some ulterior motive, I’m sure if you were to ask him, he would more than happy to reply. Unless you believe him to be something other than what he appears to be? :suspicious: Ahhh to be able to see the heart of a person and know in truth! :magnify:

Sorry brother but the smilies are not to cast light of your observation, but they just seemed to fit to what I was writing!

The only reason I put my two cents so to speak, or pence, or whatever monetary domination one may use, is that I had researched Mariology last year for a class held at my church (Pentecostal), so figured I could provide the information to you on its origins.

Sad that a major denomination supports and promotes this (Mariology) from the top (Popes) thereby deceiving many who have placed their trust in him instead of the Word of God.

YBIC
C4E

 

[David777]

Hello Christ4Ever.

Yes my brother, there does seem to be some serious flaws.

That is why I asked him about his affiliation with the SDA.

I will wait for his reply.

Sorry that I had to ask you Christ4Ever, I was trying to discover just who was who.

Please accept my apology Christ4Ever.

Yours absolutely in Christ for ever and ever.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Yes my brother, there does seem to be some serious flaws.

That is why I asked him about his affiliation with the SDA.

I will wait for his reply.

Sorry that I had to ask you Christ4Ever, I was trying to discover just who was who.

Please accept my apology Christ4Ever.

Yours absolutely in Christ for ever and ever.

Dear Brother David777,
No apology necessary brother, yet it is accepted willingly. Why should I feel anything but love towards a brother in Christ Jesus? This same Love that our Lord has showered on you, brakelite, me and all who call Him Savior, does and must override the disagreements we may have when examining scripture. Even the apostles had their disagreements, yet always loved each other. We are a family and what family doesn't have their disagreements? At least until that day of His return!

Too often we beat each other with the letter of the law and forget about the spirit of it. We need to remember that Love can be communicated even when we are dotting "i's" or crossing "t's" in our postings. That’s why I will reread a post of mines 3, 4 or more times if necessary so that the heat of my response becomes tempered, by remembering who I’m communicating with; brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus or of greater importance to non-believers. Not being perfect (yet), I don’t always do this, and regret it later for not having taken my time and greater care in choosing my words.

Always remember because you see serious flaws, communicating them constructively and in love provides an avenue by which the Holy Spirit may help us all whether communicator or recipient, come to a greater understanding of His Word. I have to post this somewhere above my PC to remind myself of this very thing from time to time
As always my brother
YBIC
C4E

 

[brakelite]

Do you adhere to the following...

The Seventh-day Adventist Church holds a unique system of eschatological (or end-times) beliefs. Adventist eschatology, which is based on a historicist interpretation of prophecy, is characterised principally by the premillennial Second Coming of Christ. Traditionally, the church has taught that the Second Coming will be preceded by a global crisis with the Sabbath as a central issue. At Jesus' return, the righteous will be taken to heaven for one thousand years. After the millennium the unsaved will be punished by annihilation while the saved will live on a recreated Earth for eternity.

Yes, that pretty well sums it up, although I would add one or two more for a fuller picture. I would disagree however with the term "unique". The historicist system of Biblical understanding regarding prophecy had been around since Paul. And most of the more Biblically centered scholars of ages past and the reformers were historicists. And as for the uniqueness of SDA eschatology, the whole goal of this thread was intended to point out that far from being unique, the reformers held steadfastly to the same view, and paid for it with their lives. So the question still remains, and very few in here have been game enough to answer...were they right? Because if you are game enough to claim they were wrong, then you better have some pretty good evidence to back up your claim considering the weight of Biblical evidence that stands against you. To deny the truth as it is revealed is to deny the author of it.

The foremost sources are the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation. Jesus' statements in Matthew 24 for instance, as well as many other Bible verses are also used. The classic Adventist commentary on the end-times was Uriah Smith's Daniel and the Revelation. The writings of Ellen G. White have also been highly influential, particularly the last part of her book The Great Controversy. "Prophecy seminars", developed since the mid-20th century, have been a key popular source. (Wikipedia)


Just curious brakelite?

While I did enjoy reading Uriah Smiths book, I do not use it as a reference or study guide. Nor for that matter E G White's books. You may or may not have noticed that throughout this thread I have not once referred to any other source material except for historical purposes other than the Bible. It is in fact a generally misunderstood point that Adventism can be defended quite adequately without the help of E G White, and more than that, she herself stated categorically that the Bible and the Bible only is the foundation and source for all doctrine and faith.
Surprised it took you so long to 'out' me lol.

 

[brakelite]

Some of the posts in this thread sound like SDA eschatology.

All protestant churches fall under the spell of the antichrist.

And, according to Ellen White, the majority of those claiming to be Adventists as well. Lukewarmness and compromise can be found anywhere, and no-one is impervious to deception once they veer away from accepting Biblical teachings.

All protestant churches join up with the Catholic Church.

Not all. One must remember however that Babylon the Great, of which the papacy plays no small part,in fact as it is being played out as we speak, the leading role, is the mother of harlots. Like mother like daughter.

The pope is the antichrist, Sunday worship is enforced.

Not quite correct. The papal system is the antichrist. It is the system that places itself as the role of mediator, thus displacing Christ from His true function. And yes, Sunday observance will be enforced on all the world. As we speak the pope is promoting such throughout Europe with no small success. The Protestant churches in the States are doing likewise. Even Judaism is now leaning in this direction. Sure, it isn't called 'Sunday worship'...its being promoted as a 'family day', but the result will be the same. Following the commandments of man above those of God.

Guess which remnant church is persecuted? The Seventh Day Adventists.

Sure appears that way.

A cursory study of history will reveal that Sabbath keepers have been persecuted since the apostolic age. First the early Christians (who were Sabbath keepers) were persecuted by the Romans, along with the Jews. When the Jews began to resent Christian presence in the synagogues on Sabbath, they instituted laws and prayers which 'outed' the followers of Christ, and so Christians were then persecuted by the Jews.
Throughout history there have been faithful Christians who adhered to the Sabbath, preferring to keep God's commandment rather than compromise and obey the child of the papacy, Sunday observance. And the papacy then persecuted Sabbath keeping Christians. The Waldenses, the church of the East, the Celtic church. When Sunday (blue) laws were established in the USA Sabbath keepers were again persecuted. Fined and jailed for not attending church on Sunday or for working on Sunday.
And it continues. I have been on many forums and been banned, edited out, abused, castigated and called heretic and worse because I am an Adventist. And the Sabbath is the prime point of contention.
So when the whole world is observing Sunday as a day of rest, in keeping with the dictates of the 'man of sin' regardless of the motivation, and God's judgements begin to fall upon mankind, because Sabbath keepers are out of step with the rest of the world, (by this time I doubt that there will be any official SDA church left, at least not a Sabbath keeping church) who will the world blame for God's judgments? After all, everyone is dutifully keeping Sunday, going to church, following steadfastly the 'representative of God on earth', His 'vicar', they don't deserve to be judged do they? So who is not obeying the majority opinion?

 

[jiggyfly]

A cursory study of history will reveal that Sabbath keepers have been persecuted since the apostolic age. First the early Christians (who were Sabbath keepers) were persecuted by the Romans, along with the Jews. When the Jews began to resent Christian presence in the synagogues on Sabbath, they instituted laws and prayers which 'outed' the followers of Christ, and so Christians were then persecuted by the Jews.
Throughout history there have been faithful Christians who adhered to the Sabbath, preferring to keep God's commandment rather than compromise and obey the child of the papacy, Sunday observance. And the papacy then persecuted Sabbath keeping Christians.

So are you propagating one must keep the law to be a faithful "Christian"?

 

[Christ4Ever]

So are you propagating one must keep the law to be a faithful "Christian"?

I should let him answer this without intruding, but one can see the outcome quite easily from having reviewed other threads when the subject of the law is brought up.

Just the manner in which you phrased it, left me to wonder if the correspondence that is sure to follow should not be moved to another thread or threads that are already in existence which deal with the subject of "Is a Christian accountable to the law or not?" More than one thread on another subject seems to disintegrate into this line of thought. I would like to be able to prevent it from happening here.

This has little to do with the subject study of this thread.

You know I love you brother. The position of accountability to the law, as a believer, seems to be a never ending battle here at TJ as you well know.

This is what I’m hoping to prevent by interjecting at this point of the discussion. So far the study has been educational, into the arena of eschatology until it seemed to swerve into another direction. Hopefully, this is just temporary, since the study has little to do with the law, instead of current and future events.

YBIC
C4E

 

[David777]

Hello Brakelite.

This is what you stated,

following steadfastly the 'representative of God on earth', His 'vicar', they don't deserve
to be judged do they? So who is not obeying the majority opinion?

Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ.

No other name under Heaven.

You opinions on eschatology or any other matter are irrelevant.

My opinions are also irrelevant Brakelite.

It was and is only about Jesus, there is no one else, there never was
any other issue.

The Gospel is simple, the full Truth and Life.

I wish you could see through the mist, and only see Jesus.

Divisions are the result of a focus that is not centered on the messiah.

 

[brakelite]

This is what you stated,

following steadfastly the 'representative of God on earth', His 'vicar', they don't deserve
to be judged do they? So who is not obeying the majority opinion?

Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ.

No other name under Heaven.

You opinions on eschatology or any other matter are irrelevant.

My opinions are also irrelevant Brakelite.

It was and is only about Jesus, there is no one else, there never was
any other issue.

The Gospel is simple, the full Truth and Life.

I wish you could see through the mist, and only see Jesus.

Divisions are the result of a focus that is not centered on the messiah.

First, I was speaking with tongue very firmly placed in cheek when I said that they who are following the Antichrist, the 'vicar of Christ' (vicarius filli dei) do not deserve to be judged. MY reasoning to the effect that judgement will be the last thing on the minds of those who feel secure in their own works. By following the beast's commandments re worship all will be confident that they are not transgressing the commands of God, believing as they will that the beast is but speaking for God, and his false prophet confirming this every step of the way. That will be the nature of the coming great deception. Take another perusal of Revelation 13, and think back to what Jesus constantly reminded everyone of throughout His ministry. "Take heed that no-one deceive you". Deception in these last days will be Satan's weapon of choice. Persecution will only be used as a last resort against those who are not deceived, a small minority, what you rightly described as the 'remnant'. And the purpose of this deception is to bring the entire planet under the authority of Satan's masterpiece of counterfeit Christianity. And as you read through Revelation 13, the central issue is worship. It is not as some would have you believe a money issue. The mark of the beast, the Roman Catholic Church, is not a bankcard, a security mark, an identification card, tattoo, bar-code, computer chip, or banana flavoured ice-cream. These things will be used as inducements, but they are not the mark. They are used to enforce obedience or compliance. The choice will be accept the mark, or be denied the right to buy and sell. The choice will be to worship according to the dictates of the majority opinion who have all fallen under the spell of the deception, or worship[ according to the commandments of God. That is precisely why you read in Revelation 14:12 "Here are they who keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus." This group, who in Revelation 12:17 are described as the remnant, are set forth in direct contrast to those who have accepted the mark. It is this group who are keeping God's commandments, and are the focus of Satan's wrath in the final days.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world......
......12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed......
.....15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Worship in this context is not as some would think, that we bow on bended knee before a statue. Satan is a little more artful than that, no-one will do such a thing in this day and age. But they will surrender to the authority of the beast and the image of it. This surrender is akin to worship.The image to the beast by the way is not a statue, but a copy of the system of the RCC, only Protestant in nature. As the RCC is a church state union, a pagan concept enforcing religious dogma through steate legislation, so the Protestant churches in America will create an image of that concept by doing the same.

I wholeheartedly agree David, Jesus ought always be our focus, and our uncompromising obedience to Him sacrosanct.

I see through the mist clearly David. The question is will we be a part of the majority who worship the NWO system and keep its mark, or will we be in the minority who obey God's commandments? Oh, of course that raises another question. If the mark of the RCC is not a financial issue, then what is the mark of the Roman Catholic Church???? I think we could discuss that soon. :wink:

 

[brakelite]

I should let him answer this without intruding, but one can see the outcome quite easily from having reviewed other threads when the subject of the law is brought up.

Just the manner in which you phrased it, left me to wonder if the correspondence that is sure to follow should not be moved to another thread or threads that are already in existence which deal with the subject of "Is a Christian accountable to the law or not?" More than one thread on another subject seems to disintegrate into this line of thought. I would like to be able to prevent it from happening here.

This has little to do with the subject study of this thread.

You know I love you brother. The position of accountability to the law, as a believer, seems to be a never ending battle here at TJ as you well know.

This is what I’m hoping to prevent by interjecting at this point of the discussion. So far the study has been educational, into the arena of eschatology until it seemed to swerve into another direction. Hopefully, this is just temporary, since the study has little to do with the law, instead of current and future events.

YBIC
C4E

Thankyou C4E...with all due respect to Jiggy......on that note I will ignore the query.

 

[jiggyfly]

Thankyou C4E...with all due respect to Jiggy......on that note I will ignore the query.

Ignore away:shade:

 

[jiggyfly]

I should let him answer this without intruding, but one can see the outcome quite easily from having reviewed other threads when the subject of the law is brought up.

Just the manner in which you phrased it, left me to wonder if the correspondence that is sure to follow should not be moved to another thread or threads that are already in existence which deal with the subject of "Is a Christian accountable to the law or not?" More than one thread on another subject seems to disintegrate into this line of thought. I would like to be able to prevent it from happening here.

This has little to do with the subject study of this thread.

You know I love you brother. The position of accountability to the law, as a believer, seems to be a never ending battle here at TJ as you well know.

This is what I’m hoping to prevent by interjecting at this point of the discussion. So far the study has been educational, into the arena of eschatology until it seemed to swerve into another direction. Hopefully, this is just temporary, since the study has little to do with the law, instead of current and future events.

YBIC
C4E

Is this thread about sabbath keepers or should we move that post to another thread?:wink:

 

[Christ4Ever]

Is this thread about sabbath keepers or should we move that post to another thread?

It would require more stretching then is reasonable to make it fit within the original thought

How threads seem to multiply from a singular one!

You think we might be able to make a coat of many colors out this one?

 

[brakelite]

A Reminder

Sorry for the long absence...had a busy month. Though I would recap on a most important aspect of this thread...something which very early on I said was important to remember...so I'll quote from one of my earlier posts...
With this thought in mind, I will now turn to Daniel. The prophecies of Daniel are incredibly revealing. They are intricately detailed, providing specific information and points of character and events regarding the history of nations, beginning from Daniels time and unfolding throughout history and progressing throughout all generations right down to the close of time and the second coming. And the Antichrist is a prominent feature throughout. This is not an accident. God desires that we are thoroughly informed of the nature and character of the Antichrist. Let us take heed. I will begin with Daniel 2.

All of Daniels visions are built on the one previous. Each one is a magnification, or an enlargement of the one before. The vision of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniels explanation regarding the statue forms the foundation for all the subsequent visions. Once we establish the foundation, we must take care that our understanding of later visions are built on that foundation. Our conclusions and interpretations must not deviate nor contradict or we shall soon lose our way, and our understanding become darkened.

Over recent decades we have witnessed a number of things in this not so wonderful world of ours, apart from the huge increase in crime and disasters etc. We have seen within the Protestant churches a decided move away from the beliefs of the reformers, many now even disclaiming the title Protestant, undoubtedly because they see nothing more to protest about. The other thing we have witnessed is a decided move toward Rome. The signing of the document Evangelicals and Catholics Together in the mid-nineties was a massive shift toward ecumenical unity. Pretending to agree on theological points which in times past were the cause of division between Rome and Protestantism, for the sake of political expediency the signers have compromised doctrinal foundations inimical to their very identity. But which signers? The Catholic or the Protestant? I will tell you now, that without equivocation, Rome has not budged on any principle, doctrine, or belief that sparked Luther's door decorations. Not one. Yet here today we have Protestants claiming unity in doctrine, (justification by faith alone), on the very point which makes antichrist antichrist.

Protestants have forgotten the principles that I laid down at the beginning of this thread, and quoted above. Rather than look to history for the fulfillment of prophecy, they now peek like clairvoyants into the future, even to the extent of making movies, writing long fictional novels, propounding eloquent on television, numerous unbiblical prognostications about the future appearing of an antichrist which has been living in their back garden for 1500 years.

However much the prophecies logically, historically, and precisely pinpoint papal Rome as the Antichrist, the almost unanimous Protestant identification of Rome as the Antichrist for the previous 4 to 500 years has been abandoned (with the very helpful development of ecumenism) in favour of a future individual (as opposed to a system), even though the texts themselves demand an historicist approach to eschatological exegesis.

In Daniel, the chronological sequence of Babylon, Madia/Persia, Greece and Rome (of which 3 are mentioned by name!) prove beyond any shadow of doubt, (it doesn't even take faith to accept it it is so in your face) that the prophecies reveal a successive progression of world history, which is why historicism has been so long used by both Jewish and Christian scholars.
For example, the statue of Daniel 2 reveals 4 metals representing as we all know, Babylon, Meda/Persia, Greece, with the 4th kingdom of iron following immediately after Greece and carrying on all the way down to the toes (albeit in another form) to be destroyed by Christ at the second coming. This iron power can only be, Rome, and no other.
In Daniel 7 the fourth beast, in the form of the little horn which grows out of it, endures to the end also to be destroyed. That little horn can once again be only Rome, and no other.
In Daniel 8 the power after Greece, Rome, arises and remains until destroyed 'without hand'. Again, only Rome, and no other. Solely, totally, and only Rome. And because the scripture often depicts pagan Rome and papal Rome as a single power, and because the pagan phase has long gone, papal Rome only remains....that entity which is unmistakeably depicted, clearly and irrefutably revealed, and condemned in scripture.

Why should we be surprised then that the reformers, and many scholars before and after them, for many centuries were virtually unanimous in the collective finger pointing to Rome when the question arose, "who is Antichrist?"

Because the identification of this entity is so important, (as I said previously there is no other entity in scripture with as many detailed prophecies apart from Jesus Himself), and the fact that God has revealed it so clearly, it is frankly astonishing and quite dramatically prophetic in itself that Protestantism has shifted the way it has.
And this prophetic shift is detailed for us in Revelation 13, with the false prophet, (American Protestantism) cosying up to the beast and enforcing submission to the beast first in their own nation, then to the world.

Those of you who live in America, can you deny that this scenario is taking place before your very eyes?