What If I'm Born Gay?

[Born Again 2004]

@Born Again 2004
As Brother Paul has stated. You didn't leave the church, but a building where those who professed to be like minded in Christ Jesus would assemble. Sadly, accommodating to the world is a too frequent occurrence in the older established denominations. My heart goes out to you, because it could not have been easy after so many years attending there to leave. Just know that you do have an Eternity in the Body of Christ that is The True Church.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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Thank you

 

[Momo19]

Quantrill, how can you say you'd be ok with homosexuals being stoned? That is definitely not from the heart of God. Whether you agree with them or not, they are human beings God created! If they are your enemies, you're supposed to love and pray for them! God doesn't want anyone to perish, but all to come to repentance. Would you be ok with someone stoning you for your sins?

 

[Momo19]

What do you guys think about a Christian who is struggling with bisexuality but who does not give in to the same sex desires for Jesus cause it's a sin but just has the desires?

 

[Rad]

@Rad

We all have a choice my friend, accept all God's Word or reject it and pay the consequences. We cannot pick some bits and leave others or we are in effect saying we know better than God and His Word.

Interpretation is important but this do Comes with a danger sign. For example:

Believe on the Lord and you will be saved. Are you saved?

Call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved. Are you saved?

For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son so that who ever believes in Him will have everlasting life. John 3:16. Areyou saved?

Now read John 3:1-7 which comes before John 3:16, actually read John 3: 1-21 to get the full picture.

John 3:3,5& 7 Jesus Himself says...
You must be born of spirit and water
You should not be surprised when I say, you must be born again
Unless you are born again you will not see the kingdom of heaven.

Interpretation is fine IF you have considered all scripture says on a subject, if we haven't we cannot interpret the true meaning.

We are only saved if our name is in the Book of life and the Lamb. God calls us we do not call him, but we do have to repent of All our Sins and accept Jesus into our hearts unconditional.

Bless you

But what does "belief" entail Brother Paul, is it to Love God with all your Mind, Body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself, and just what does God require of us, is it to act justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly, and will our salvation be based on how we show compassion and mercy to those in need as in the "Sheep and the goats", or will we be condemned as the Rich and told we have received good things in this life whilst others suffered in poverty and so must suffer the consequences,....... i don't know my friend, i do know i'm a miserable sinner who deserves nothing but condemnation for the choices i make every day, so i leave my judgement to God, as one who has received much i know that much will be required of me and whether or not my name is in the Book of Life is for God to decide, but like us all i pray that he is very merciful and very, very forgiving, for all of us are going to be in dire need of both.

 

[Rad]

I did read it again and would say the same thing again. Homosexuality is not the same as living wealthy amid poverty, nor is it the same as adultery. Homosexuality is perversion. It is deviant and perverted. It is abnormal to not just God but to human nature. It is itself a judgement from God upon an individual and a nation.

Because I have the same view of homosexuality as the Scripture, as God does, you say I hate and condemn. I recognize all believers are sinners. That doesn't make all believers homosexuals. Homosexuality is a stage of being turned over by God. It is a product of rejection of God. As I have said before, when homosexuality is acceptable and legal in a country, such as the U.S. homosexuals are like maggots on a dead carcass. They are the result of something having died already.

No one is stoning homosexuals today. Though if a country passed it as law, it wouldn't bother me. But today they roam free and flaunt their supposed free lifestyle, and if you don't accept them, acknowledge that they are just like everyone else, then you are full of hate. And that is where you err. And that is why you struggle. You struggle because your view of homosexuality is not the view of Scripture.

Quantrill

Of course you would say the same thing again, because you are convinced of your own righteousness and cannot be wrong,....... how fortunate we are Quantrill to have one so blessed with an insight into the mind and actions of God, and whose actions and words are so aligned with those of the Almighty, who knows that Homosexuality is so abhorred by God, such an abomination in his sight that it ranks above all other sins, for it is a sign of Gods rejection and judgement upon an individual and a nation,...... such a sin would be condemned by Christ , he would make it a priority to show his followers just what our Lord thinks of such deviant, unnatural and perverted practices, and the issues of wealth and poverty, compassion for those in need, Adultery, would all pale into insignificance in the face of this abomination,...... and of course Christ would follow the rule set out in the OT for the treatment of women adulterers, stone them to death, for the word of God is unchanging and eternal, and as you say , it wouldn't bother you, or Christ for that matter if Homosexuals were treated in the same way, for thats just what they all deserve,....... after all for someone who has such an insight into the mind of God, why shouldn't you also be his Avenger on this Earth, dispensing out death and destruction to the "un-Godly", first in line and carrying the biggest stone,....... you may have a faith that can move mountains, you may speak in tongues and prophecy, you may give all you have to those in need and offer your life as a sacrifice, but if you have no Love, then you have nothing,.... and that my friend is where you err, for you have no Love in your Soul and as such are as an empty vessel in the sight of God.

 

[Sue D.]

Hi folks -- I just found this thread -- would like to add my 2 cents worth.

God's Word is very definite. God created male and then female. God created marriage between Adam and Eve and they had children. Egg and ***** together create a child - the family - the next generation.

There have been discussions galore about the cause Of homosexuality. Scripturally the 'deal' is that when a person is single the person is to refrain from physical intimacy with either a man or a woman. No matter Who a person is attracted to - that attraction is not to be acted on in a physically intimate way. Marriage is meant to be a very special , closest relationship between a man and a woman that is possible / spiritually, emotionally, physically, psychologically. That involves the entire person. God created a male and female body to be able to join together in a very special , unique way. totally satisfying to both. And able to produce a child between them.

How about the 'love' factor. There are many kinds of love and lots of ways to show it. A woman shows love for her grandparents in a different way than to her dog, her Dad, her boyfriend her husband - her children. Showing love to her husband would be the only one to be physically intimate with. But she can Still show her love by making his favorite meal on his birthday by doing something special for him only. A brother can show his sister love by simply being nice, respectful to her and her friends. By sticking up for her at school when needed. Being supportive of her.

A person's body language shows emotions. A wink, smile.

so -- what about homosexuality. Is anyone Born that way. No. We're all born with a clean slate. A problem can develop when God's Word is not taught. When parents don't teach their kids boundaries. Kids need to be guided in Biblical morals from early on. Mom's need to be Mom's with their daughters. And Dad's need to be Dad's with their sons. And some young ladies Are tomboys and some guys aren't exactly the 'he-man-ish' kind that Dad's would expect them to be. And that's probably when the most guidance is needed. Help kids / teens learn how to be Friends with other teens. Respect for each other. Monitor what they watch on TV and movies. Maybe encourage sports and musical instruments instead of TV / movies. Encourage good grades.

There was a discussion going on in FB yesterday. About homosexuality. What is so disturbing with lots of us is the way Society allows for all the garbage. When people started coming out of their closets --that was disgracefull. Some things are meant to be and stay in the bedroom behind closed doors.

Grade school books are trying to prepare little kids to accept two Daddies or two Mommies as being just another kind of family. That is So Wrong. Adults -- we should be listening to God's Word.

It's been said that kids having two loving adults as parents is better than one of each that are always fighting. Well -- Why are men and women Fighting. What's with all the abuse?! Why is Godly love so alien.

 

[B-A-C]

Marriage is meant to be a very special

That's why getting the government to recognize homosexual marriages, and "civil unions" was such a big deal. That was the beginning of it.

How about the 'love' factor. There are many kinds of love and lots of ways to show it.

Homosexuality has nothing to do with love.

A problem can develop when God's Word is not taught. When parents don't teach their kids boundaries. Kids need to be guided in Biblical morals from early on.

There are homosexuals who know the Bible quite well, at least two large church denominations support homosexuality, gay marriages, and even gay clergy.
There are plenty of "ex Christians" who used to go to church, pray, read the Bible, and some still do.

Grade school books are trying to prepare little kids to accept two Daddies or two Mommies as being just another kind of family.

...and we've let them. We've become so preoccupied with our jobs, hobbies and careers, the liberal media and liberal schools are the only parents children really have these days.
Young parents today are glued to cell phones, the television, have their head phones on, are out walking the dogs, or at the gym paying babysitters, who are also glued to cell phones and televisions.

 

[Sue D.]

I'd have to disagree with your comment that homosexuality has nothing to do with love. To the people involved in that kind of relationship it Can have Everything to do with it. It's just misplaced emotions. I think that a lot of close friendships have just been allowed to go too far. Women especially. We can become very good friends with other women and sometimes curiosity will come into play. Many years ago I did a research paper on The Gay Right's Movement in college. Turned out to be 13 1/2 pages. But I learned a lot in the process Of. My concern back then had been young ladies / teens who get caught up in lesbianism simply because they've been curious and maybe have one encounter with a close friend and see themselves as 'full-blown' lesbians when they really Aren't. And maybe they get invited to a sleep-over and observe the other gals getting 'into it' and don't want to be 'left out' so they let themselves experience feelings that they hadn't before.

And, yes, there Are 'gay' supportive churches. Apparently the thought is that 'they' need to be Somewhere where they are accepted as they are and 'loved'.

On FB earlier this evening there was a cartoon which featured young parents eating and texting at the table. Then the mother was horrified to see their toddler in his high chair with a saltine cracker trying to imitate them by 'texting' his cracker. Quite an eye-opener.

I was at a subway shop getting a sandwich. At one of the tables there was a family of 4 two adults and two grade-school aged kids. They were sitting with their heads bowed and I thought WOW they are saying their blessing before eating. Well -- then I noticed they all had their 'devices' in their hands texting. Oh, well.

And there Are those who have been saved Out of homosexuality through intense Bible study groups. We just never know How God will be using His Word.

 

[Armin]

You describe yourself as a homosexual who has not come out. This is why you are dangerous to any fellowship you are part of.

Ceasing to be homosexual is not a discipline. It is a change of nature.

You can find homosexuals in certain churches today that accept them openly. Oh yes, they love God they say. They say just because they are queers, doesn't mean they don't love God and Christ. Hogwash. They love themselves and their perverted lifestyle. They love living in a way that is opposed to God in every way, and going to a house of God and displaying that perversion. Yet they will tell you they love God. Who do you believe?

Quantrill

Look, the Bible says that if you habitually sin you are not a believer, not that if you are tempted to sin in disgusting ways you aren’t saved. I’m the latter.

 

[KingJ]

leviticus were written for the jewish people to be distinct from every other nation.

Distinct as in holy. A sign to all of what a holy nation is. As you said God does not change. So Christians should obey plus.

Surely if you serve God and know that in the OT He ordained death by stoning as a fitting punishment for said sin, you apply every effort possible to avoid said sin? Otherwise how in the universe can you claim to '''love''' Him. You ''love'' Him on your terms. You do not love Him.

 

[KingJ]

Look, the Bible says that if you habitually sin you are not a believer, not that if you are tempted to sin in disgusting ways you aren’t saved. I’m the latter.

The bible draws a distinction between sinners that repent and sinners that do not repent. Sinners that repent God will not turn away Psalm 51:17.

We all sin 1 John 1:8. Only God is perfect Mark 10:18.

Now when we continue in a grievous sin. One that God clearly ordained capital punishment for. One can argue that you are ''far'' from being truly repentant of sin.

We are to get on our knees and work out our salvation in fear and trembling before a good, righteous and holy God Phil 2:12.

 

[KingJ]

Of course you would say the same thing again, because you are convinced of your own righteousness and cannot be wrong,....... how fortunate we are Quantrill to have one so blessed with an insight into the mind and actions of God, and whose actions and words are so aligned with those of the Almighty, who knows that Homosexuality is so abhorred by God, such an abomination in his sight that it ranks above all other sins, for it is a sign of Gods rejection and judgement upon an individual and a nation,...... such a sin would be condemned by Christ , he would make it a priority to show his followers just what our Lord thinks of such deviant, unnatural and perverted practices, and the issues of wealth and poverty, compassion for those in need, Adultery, would all pale into insignificance in the face of this abomination,...... and of course Christ would follow the rule set out in the OT for the treatment of women adulterers, stone them to death, for the word of God is unchanging and eternal, and as you say , it wouldn't bother you, or Christ for that matter if Homosexuals were treated in the same way, for thats just what they all deserve,....... after all for someone who has such an insight into the mind of God, why shouldn't you also be his Avenger on this Earth, dispensing out death and destruction to the "un-Godly", first in line and carrying the biggest stone,....... you may have a faith that can move mountains, you may speak in tongues and prophecy, you may give all you have to those in need and offer your life as a sacrifice, but if you have no Love, then you have nothing,.... and that my friend is where you err, for you have no Love in your Soul and as such are as an empty vessel in the sight of God.

You seem very confused on a very simple matter.

Adultery got capital punishment, male or female.

Homosexuality is not the same type of sin as murder or theft. With homosexuality you don't hurt anyone. That is why many are blurred on seriousness of it. But yet it is pulling the middle finger to your Creator. He is disgusted at the sin. It is evidence of 100% submission to the lust of one's flesh. It is a detestable deed. Sodom was destroyed for doing what is detestable.

If you are ''ok'' with it, you have made yourself ''ok'' with it. Which is simply evidence of you not caring about God's thoughts on it.

 

[Armin]

The bible draws a distinction between sinners that repent and sinners that do not repent. Sinners that repent God will not turn away Psalm 51:17.

We all sin 1 John 1:8. Only God is perfect Mark 10:18.

Now when we continue in a grievous sin. One that God clearly ordained capital punishment for. One can argue that you are ''far'' from being truly repentant of sin.

We are to get on our knees and work out our salvation in fear and trembling before a good, righteous and holy God Phil 2:12.

O
God can punish however he wants. He doesn’t need to kill or damn for everything.

 

[KingJ]

God can punish however he wants. He doesn’t need to kill or damn for everything.

Well God does not really kill anyone. We all live for eternity. He basically only removed people / brought change in the OT.

He does not damn anyone. We damn ourselves when we choose to not repent.

 

[Quantrill]

Of course you would say the same thing again, because you are convinced of your own righteousness and cannot be wrong,....... how fortunate we are Quantrill to have one so blessed with an insight into the mind and actions of God, and whose actions and words are so aligned with those of the Almighty, who knows that Homosexuality is so abhorred by God, such an abomination in his sight that it ranks above all other sins, for it is a sign of Gods rejection and judgement upon an individual and a nation,...... such a sin would be condemned by Christ , he would make it a priority to show his followers just what our Lord thinks of such deviant, unnatural and perverted practices, and the issues of wealth and poverty, compassion for those in need, Adultery, would all pale into insignificance in the face of this abomination,...... and of course Christ would follow the rule set out in the OT for the treatment of women adulterers, stone them to death, for the word of God is unchanging and eternal, and as you say , it wouldn't bother you, or Christ for that matter if Homosexuals were treated in the same way, for thats just what they all deserve,....... after all for someone who has such an insight into the mind of God, why shouldn't you also be his Avenger on this Earth, dispensing out death and destruction to the "un-Godly", first in line and carrying the biggest stone,....... you may have a faith that can move mountains, you may speak in tongues and prophecy, you may give all you have to those in need and offer your life as a sacrifice, but if you have no Love, then you have nothing,.... and that my friend is where you err, for you have no Love in your Soul and as such are as an empty vessel in the sight of God.

I am convinced of what the Scriptures say about homosexuality.

To accept one's homosexuality as just a sin like all other sins is not love.

God's view of homosexuals has never changed. Never. The way they are treated by Israel today has changed as Israel is in rejection of God. Once Israel gets right with God and Christ, the law against homosexuality will again be enforced.

As far as Gentile nations are concerned, as I said, I have no problem with making homosexuality illegal and punishable by death. That would be in line with the will of God.

I don't think Christ needs an avenger as He is quite capeable Himself.

So, if you have it all figured out, why do you struggle? Think about it. If you simply believed the Scripture, you would not struggle over it.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill, how can you say you'd be ok with homosexuals being stoned? That is definitely not from the heart of God. Whether you agree with them or not, they are human beings God created! If they are your enemies, you're supposed to love and pray for them! God doesn't want anyone to perish, but all to come to repentance. Would you be ok with someone stoning you for your sins?

What do you guys think about a Christian who is struggling with bisexuality but who does not give in to the same sex desires for Jesus cause it's a sin but just has the desires?

If a nation made it a law, that homosexuality was illegal and punishable by death, I would have no problem with it.

If I have a love and prayer for the homosexual it is that he turn back to God. It is not to accept him as he is in his perverted condition, which is a product of his rejecting God. If one comes into your fellowship saying he loves God and is an homosexual, but doesn't see the sin of being a homosexual, as something wrong, then you need to show him the door. If one comes in and says he is an homosexual but doesn't practice homosexuality, you need to show him the door.

This appears to be the new argument homosexuals have to the Christian. I have noticed it surface on other forums also. They say they are homosexual in their desires but they don't fulfill their desires. Which in their eyes makes them alright and they should be part of any Church fellowship. First of all, I don't believe them. If they are homosexual they will fill their homosexual desires. Second of all, the fact that they are homosexual is the problem. They do what they do because of who they are.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Look, the Bible says that if you habitually sin you are not a believer, not that if you are tempted to sin in disgusting ways you aren’t saved. I’m the latter.

Well, as I said, you describe yourself as an homosexual. And as I said to another, first of all, I don't believe you. A homosexual will fulfill his sexual desires in homosexual ways. It sort of like when Bill said 'I did not have sex with that woman'. Second of all, the fact that you are homosexual is the abomination.

Quantrill

 

[Sue D.]

@Quantrill -- being Tempted is Not sinning -- it's giving into the temptation that IS. I can be Tempted to do a Lot of things , but I Don't Do them. It's practicing self-control -- it's taking myself Out of a questionable situation cause I know what my natural desire Is. And, horrors be that I Might give in to a strong temptation occasionally. Does that make me any Less of a believer? I should Hope Not. I Will feel a twinge in conscience as a result, though. And, maybe more that just a twinge. God Does know our hearts -- He knows when we are doing something out of rebelliousness or out of weakness.

Jesus Christ was tempted and when He was hungry / vulnerable / by Satan. So if being Tempted is sinning then we're All totally Doomed. Jesus Christ endured tempting and answered back To His tempter with Scripture and by telling him to get away from Me.

It totally appalls me -- your attitude -- the guy was admitting that he had homosexual thoughts / desires but did Not act on them. And That is the difference. Choosing to NOT act on those desires. The only thing that's dangerous to a body of believers are those who come to church and openly are obviously same sex relationship and are just waiting for someone in the congregation to 'say something' negative to them. And THEN they will have an excuse to say how bigoted Christian people Are. They are trouble-makers from the getgo.

One evening at Bible study the question was asked to pastor -- if an obviously 'gay' couple came to church , how would he respond. He said No differently than he would with any other people. Be welcoming and invite them over for lunch. Give them absolutely No reason say they were frowned upon or disliked in any way. And he would include the plan of salvation just like in any other service. And if he was in process of teaching through the book of Romans especially the first couple of chapters, he would not change Anything. It's God's Word he's teaching.

Enough of my ranting.

One more comment. The abomination is two people of the same sex actively engaging in that act. It is Not allowing God to bless people with children as He sees fit. Homosexuality is satan's desire to counter-act God's plan for family. He told us to 'be fruitful and multiply' and That is impossible with two of the same sex being together. And two people of the same sex Can have good, deep feelings for each other. Some people are together just to Prove to the 'rest of us' that they Can 'do it'. And there are a host of unexpected problems that go with it.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Being tempted is one thing.
Being tempted and not acting on it is another thing.

What one does with the thoughts is entirely yet another thing.

Scripture clearly states we must take All Thoughts Captive...

This means you don't entertain those thoughts after all Scripture also says...

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

This Applies to both male and female towards either.

Blessings

 

[Sue D.]

And, yes , that is All 100% true.

It's what a person does With the temptation.

A person can be attracted to any number of people -- it's how a person chooses to React to the attraction that is the person's choice.

It's Also true that a person has no real control over the thoughts that enter their minds. It's what they Do With those thoughts that is up to the person. do we choose to dwell on them or change our direction.