What is hell?

[MedicBravo]

All are dead in Adam, all are bound to hell. There is none who is righteous, no, not one. That's Paul's logic laid out in early chapters of Romans, and Yeshua told the same thing to Nicodemus, that all who don't believe are condemned already. Based on that conclusion, unfortunately, babies go down to hell as well - prematurely. It's NOT about morality, it's just a heartbreaking tragedy in this sinful and fallen world. All who don't seek Christ naturally go down to hell like a river flowing into the sea, it's a natural progress of degeneration.

Y'all remember that man who was born blind? And disciples were arguing whether it was the man's fault or his parents? Convert that into a modern day context, the question would be - is it a birth defect or a hereditary disability from the parents' genes? That's typical worldly mentality. When you ask do babies go to hell - or, do they DESERVE to go to hell, you're actually asking the same question those disciples were asking about that blind man. And how did Yeshua respond? NEITHER, but the work of God might be manifested. Then he performed a miracle and gave him sight. The same work of God is manifested when a preterm, weak or sick baby who is certained about to die on his own is saved through medical intervention, that's the modern day equivalent.

Catholics are the ones who believe in nonsense like "babies go to hell". It shows their ignorance of who and what God is.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Catholics are the ones who believe in nonsense like "babies go to hell". It shows their ignorance of who and what God is.

Well that depends on your definition of hell. Isn't that supposed to be grave, Sheol in OT and Hades in NT, which Jesus also went in for two days before he rose on the third day? There's a phase in the grave before the Lake of Fire or New Jerusalem, but obviously no purgatory, as Catholics believe.

 

[B-A-C]

Well that depends on your definition of hell. Isn't that supposed to be grave, Sheol in OT and Hades in NT

Sheol is not hades. Sheol is a large place shaped like a "T" with two sides. Paradise is on one side of the T, and hades is on the other side.
There is a deep chasm between the two sides. Hades is just a part of Sheol.

Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:26; 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

Contrary to what others have said in this thread. The word Hades is not an English concept it is in the original Greek. Jesus Himself uses the word a number of times
including the passage above.

Matt 11:23; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Luke 10:15; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
Acts 2:27; BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
Act_2:31; he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Rev 6:8; I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

The word "hell" is sometimes used inter-changeably.

Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matt 10:28; "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Luke 12:5; "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
Jas 3:6; And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.
2Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Also, as has been mentioned before, Hades is a temporary place. It is eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is a permanent place.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[MedicBravo]

This is about the eternal suffering and fire that Satan, the anti-Christ and False prophet will be thrown in to.
Babies are not old enough to make a decision to accept and follow God.
They are treated differently than the rest of us. It would make no sense to send a baby to hell when they had no ability to make such a decision.

 

[B-A-C]

Babies are not old enough to make a decision to accept and follow God.
They are treated differently than the rest of us. It would make no sense to send a baby to hell when they had no ability to make such a decision.

You may be right, one controversial verse about this is...

1Cor 7:13; And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
1Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

If at least one of the parents is a believer, then the children are covered, but if neither is a believer... "your children are unclean".

This "all babies are saved" causes a bit of a problem for OSAS. If babies are saved and they cannot lose their salvation, then that means
no one can go to hell.

 

[B-A-C]

This is about the eternal suffering and fire that Satan, the anti-Christ and False prophet will be thrown in to.

It isn't just them.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Whoever takes the mark of the beast is also specifically mentioned.
But in fact, it seems all the unsaved will end up in the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

In the story of the sheep and the goats, it seems the goats will also go there.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: According to Rev 20:14, John saw Death discarded in a lake of fire. Well;
death is an abstract. How then can it be spoken of as an object that can be picked
up and thrown like a baseball or a javelin?

REPLY: That passage is likely speaking of Death as a category consisting of
everything and anything one can possibly imagine that God considers dead to
Himself, i.e. whatever it is with which and/or with whom, He prefers not to
associate.

In that respect, the lake of fire could be thought of as a sanitary landfill, viz:
there's a really big Spring cleaning on God's to-do list.
_

 

[B-A-C]

death is an abstract

I would disagree with this statement. Death is static, definable.
It's like a light switch. Life is either on or off. No in between.

 

[MedicBravo]

You may be right, one controversial verse about this is...

1Cor 7:13; And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
1Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

If at least one of the parents is a believer, then the children are covered, but if neither is a believer... "your children are unclean".

This "all babies are saved" causes a bit of a problem for OSAS. If babies are saved and they cannot lose their salvation, then that means
no one can go to hell.

No, that's not it.
Give evidence a baby and/or young child under the Age of Accountability can know right from wrong, good vs evil, and make a life altering, true decision to accept Christ into his/her life and then change and their actions/fruits prove they have become a Christian.
Babies most certainly cannot do that and no young child is intelligent nor mature enough to make life altering decisions like smoking, firing a firearm, driving a car, voting, etc.
No need for some useless philosophy or similar degree.
Knowing who and what God is.....He does not send babies to Hell. It doesn't matter if some "group" of humans believe otherwise.

 

[MedicBravo]

It isn't just them.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Whoever takes the mark of the beast is also specifically mentioned.
But in fact, it seems all the unsaved will end up in the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

In the story of the sheep and the goats, it seems the goats will also go there.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Not talking about those three. There is isn't different parts of Hell nor "purgatory".
He compares the two: Heaven or Hell.

 

[KingJ]

Catholics are the ones who believe in nonsense like "babies go to hell". It shows their ignorance of who and what God is.

I wasn't aware of this, have you got evidence?

As far as I recall St Augustine made a personal statement on this. It is not official Catholic belief that babies go to limbo.

None of the Catholic priests I know believe this.

 

[MedicBravo]

So?
That "saint" is was just another flawed, mortal sinner. No one can change God.
Yet one of many reasons I'll never be Catholic. For them Tradition > God's word.
No one I've asked has given ANY scripture to support babies going to Hell or evidence.
Given Indulgences were re-instated and still a thing and what the recent Anti-pope has said and done more Catholics in America are ignoring him.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This is about the eternal suffering and fire that Satan, the anti-Christ and False prophet will be thrown in to.
Babies are not old enough to make a decision to accept and follow God.
They are treated differently than the rest of us. It would make no sense to send a baby to hell when they had no ability to make such a decision.

Does that matter? Anyone who dies goes back into the dirt, dust to dust, ashes to ashes. But beyond that, those who have a spiritual birth, their spirit will go back to God instead of going down into the ground. So ask yourself, do babies have a spiritual birth, are they born again within one year of physical birth? Unless you believe in christening, which is a Catholic tradition, then you know the answer of where they go after death.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Sheol is not hades. Sheol is a large place shaped like a "T" with two sides. Paradise is on one side of the T, and hades is on the other side.
There is a deep chasm between the two sides. Hades is just a part of Sheol.

You know why gates of Hades shall not overcome the church? Because Yeshua holds the key, the key of Hades (Rev. 1:18). He can open the door, setting the righteous free while shutting the wicked in. Bottom line is, The grave - or the underworld, as in “underneath the earth” - is just a temporary holding place, all in there will be resurrected to embrace their eternal destiny, either reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom or facing the white throne judgement after the kingdom.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, as I said a while back to you, I respect your attempt to credit God as good and therefore reject eternal torment as that can only be evil.

But I plead with you to consider the 'fact' that the statement ''Accept me or die'' is a statement that no loving being can make.

The answer to justifying God as good on eternal torment lies in better understanding those scriptures that speak to what takes place in hell.

You simply cannot ignore the following scriptures on eternal torment:

1. Mark 9:48 / Isa 66:24 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
2. Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3. Matt 25:46 Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life
4. 2 Thess 1:5-10 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
5. Jude 7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire
6. Jude 13 for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
7. Rev 14:9-11 If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name
8. Rev 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I'm not ignoring anything my friend. I have studied this topic in depth for years. I'm well aware of all of the passages you posted. Let's look at them in context. Mark 9:48 quotes Isaiah 66. When we go to Isaiah 66 what we find burning in the fire that is not quenched are dead bodies. These are not souls and/or spirits. They are dead bodies, Also, the word quench means to "put out" Isaiah is speaking of a fire that cannot be "put out", The passage doesn't say that fire will never "go out". Isaiah is simply saying that no one can put it out. This passage does not prove eternal torment.

The rest of the passages all rest on the word aion which is wrongly translated forever or everlasting. That's simply wrong.

Jesus,

Mathew 13:39
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Apostles

Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Paul

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

In these passages the word bolded "world" is the Greek word aion. It clearly doesn't mean eternal or everlasting as each of these passages speaks of the end of the aion. Something that ends is not and cannot be eternal or everlasting. This begs the question, why do the translators translate this same Greek word as eternal and world? Well, they obviously can't translate it eternal when it's speaking of its end. Imagine if they translated it, till the end of eternity. That doesn't make much sense, does it? So, they had to find another word. However, the translation world isn't very good either. The word literally means an age. Some translations get it correct when they translate it, till the end of the age. when it's translated eternal or everlasting we have a clear case of translator bias. The translators are letting their theology drive the interpretation instead of letting the interpretation drive their theology.

Notice in Hebrews 9:26 we have the word "world" twice. Where i'ts underlined the Greek word is cosmos. Where it's bolded it's aion. Cosmos means an orderly system. Aion means an age. Cosmos can be translated world as in the worldly system. However, there is no reason to translate aion as world. It means an age.

Also, look at Rev. 20:10. It speaks of three beings. No one else. How does this prove that man suffers eternal torment when it doesn't even mention man? It doesn't. One of the problems is that people just see the words eternal torment and apply them wherever they choose. That's not exegesis, it's eisegesis.

But we've got even more. You posted Jude 1:7. This passage actually refutes what you've said.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jud 6–7.

Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrha suffered aionios, or eternal fire. Are those two cities still burning today? They are not. Can we go on Google Earth and see them burning? We cannot. Whatever happened to them is aionios, eternal fire. It clearly is not still burning. Thus, aion cannot mean eternal.

You said I can't ignore the passages you posted. I haven't. I've addressed them and shown clearly that they do not support this idea of eternal torment.

Now I would suggest that we cannot ignore these passages either. God said through Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. He didn't say the soul that sins shall suffer eternal torment. Paul said, "the wages of sin is death". He didn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

Are God and Paul both wrong? If the wages of sin is eternal torment, then one must answer yes to this question. What say you?

The amount of evidence against eternal torment is overwhelming. Yet many hold on to a few passages taken out of context and base their arguments on these and the wrong translation of aion.

Here's another problem presented by the eternal torment doctrine. Paul says clearly that the Father alone has immortality, no one else. That means that man doesn't. Since man doesn't have immortality, he will die. The "only" way man could suffer eternal torment is if God specifically kept him alive for that purpose. Are we willing to go there? How can a God who the Bible calls, love, do such a thing?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I'm not ignoring anything my friend. I have studied this topic in depth for years. I'm well aware of all of the passages you posted. Let's look at them in context. Mark 9:48 quotes Isaiah 66. When we go to Isaiah 66 what we find burning in the fire that is not quenched are dead bodies. These are not souls and/or spirits. They are dead bodies, Also, the word quench means to "put out" Isaiah is speaking of a fire that cannot be "put out", The passage doesn't say that fire will never "go out". Isaiah is simply saying that no one can put it out. This passage does not prove eternal torment.

The rest of the passages all rest on the word aion which is wrongly translated forever or everlasting. That's simply wrong.

Jesus,

Mathew 13:39
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Apostles

Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Paul

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

In these passages the word bolded "world" is the Greek word aion. It clearly doesn't mean eternal or everlasting as each of these passages speaks of the end of the aion. Something that ends is not and cannot be eternal or everlasting. This begs the question, why do the translators translate this same Greek word as eternal and world? Well, they obviously can't translate it eternal when it's speaking of its end. Imagine if they translated it, till the end of eternity. That doesn't make much sense, does it? So, they had to find another word. However, the translation world isn't very good either. The word literally means an age. Some translations get it correct when they translate it, till the end of the age. when it's translated eternal or everlasting we have a clear case of translator bias. The translators are letting their theology drive the interpretation instead of letting the interpretation drive their theology.

Notice in Hebrews 9:26 we have the word "world" twice. Where i'ts underlined the Greek word is cosmos. Where it's bolded it's aion. Cosmos means an orderly system. Aion means an age. Cosmos can be translated world as in the worldly system. However, there is no reason to translate aion as world. It means an age.

Also, look at Rev. 20:10. It speaks of three beings. No one else. How does this prove that man suffers eternal torment when it doesn't even mention man? It doesn't. One of the problems is that people just see the words eternal torment and apply them wherever they choose. That's not exegesis, it's eisegesis.

But we've got even more. You posted Jude 1:7. This passage actually refutes what you've said.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jud 6–7.

Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrha suffered aionios, or eternal fire. Are those two cities still burning today? They are not. Can we go on Google Earth and see them burning? We cannot. Whatever happened to them is aionios, eternal fire. It clearly is not still burning. Thus, aion cannot mean eternal.

You said I can't ignore the passages you posted. I haven't. I've addressed them and shown clearly that they do not support this idea of eternal torment.

Now I would suggest that we cannot ignore these passages either. God said through Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. He didn't say the soul that sins shall suffer eternal torment. Paul said, "the wages of sin is death". He didn't say the wages of sin is eternal torment.

Are God and Paul both wrong? If the wages of sin is eternal torment, then one must answer yes to this question. What say you?

The amount of evidence against eternal torment is overwhelming. Yet many hold on to a few passages taken out of context and base their arguments on these and the wrong translation of aion.

Here's another problem presented by the eternal torment doctrine. Paul says clearly that the Father alone has immortality, no one else. That means that man doesn't. Since man doesn't have immortality, he will die. The "only" way man could suffer eternal torment is if God specifically kept him alive for that purpose. Are we willing to go there? How can a God who the Bible calls, love, do such a thing?

Why making things so complicated with this wall of text? Believers die once, live twice; unbelievers die twice, live once, and that’s it. Yeshua is the firstborn from the dead, hence the first fruit, and all believers will be raised on the glorious day of his return.

 

[Butch5]

Why making things so complicated with this wall of text? Believers die once, live twice; unbelievers die twice, live once, and that’s it. Yeshua is the firstborn from the dead, hence the first fruit, and all believers will be raised on the glorious day of his return.

It is that simple. However, it seems it's not that clear to everyone.

 

[MedicBravo]

Does that matter? Anyone who dies goes back into the dirt, dust to dust, ashes to ashes. But beyond that, those who have a spiritual birth, their spirit will go back to God instead of going down into the ground. So ask yourself, do babies have a spiritual birth, are they born again within one year of physical birth? Unless you believe in christening, which is a Catholic tradition, then you know the answer of where they go after death.

Of course it matters.
That is the body not the soul. What makes more sense? People who falsely believe babies go to Hell b/c they truly don't know who God is or the fact God by his very being wouldn't send them there.
How can you punish someone who never had a chance nor were mentally mature enough to make such a decision? Easy.
Catholics do a lot of wrong things and most are based on tradition.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Of course it matters.
That is the body not the soul. What makes more sense? People who falsely believe babies go to Hell b/c they truly don't know who God is or the fact God by his very being wouldn't send them there.
How can you punish someone who never had a chance nor were mentally mature enough to make such a decision? Easy.
Catholics do a lot of wrong things and most are based on tradition.

No, soul in the bible is defined as a LIVING BEING (Gen. 2:7, Rev. 13:15). Any object has a physical body, a LIVING BEING is a soul. In Rev. 18:13, "bodies and souls of men" are listed among the commodities of the traders, that's human trafficking. This living being is made of dirt, and when life ends, it will return to the dirt. "For dust you are, and to dust you shall return." That's the design, not punishment. You're making a work-based argument that actually aligns with Catholic teaching, not me. And you also deny the original sin by assuming that babies are born sinless.

 

[Beetow]

Hell is a society where evil is neither discouraged nor restrained; so we have to
expect that when new folks arrive there they will be subjected to discord, hatred,
meanness, factions, cliques, mistrust, prejudice, bias, caste systems, double
standards, partiality, racism, sexism, favoritism, deceit, surmising, dishonesty,
gossip, slander, sarcasm, cynicism, ridicule, envy, rivalry, resentment, gossip,
character assassination, slander, complaining, confrontations, quarrels,
assertiveness, heated debates,

. . . chafing, trickery, grudging, stonewalling, bitterness, silent treatments,
revenge, stubbornness, cold shouldering, snobbery, egotism, dominance,
demeaning comments, pecking orders, gangs, arrogance, attitudes, subterfuge,
treachery, betrayal, suspicion, conceit, vanity, superiority complexes, depression,
melancholy, antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, toxic rejoinders, smart-Alek retorts,
snide remarks, and quite possibly violent assaults so vicious and so terrible that
if it were possible to die from injuries; they would.
_