What is Sin & is it OK to be Sin Free?

[Lanolin]

For the last time, only God is perfect. With your free will you can aspire to be. This does not ever mean you actually will be.

Scripture?
This makes zero sense.

Also, people talk about 'free will' well how about 'free won't'. Some people do God's will, others just won't. Its your choice.

God can't make believers perfect? The holy spirit is somehow....not holy?!
1 Peter 5:10 suggests otherwise.

Also Jude 1:24

Oh and Hebrews 12:18-29 esp verse 23

Choose this day who you will serve. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Well God actually pooh poohed the israelites for saying they will serve Him cos He knew they couldn't on their own strength! You can read that in Joshua.

Are we serving God but coming to the wrong mountain? There are two mountains, mount sinai, which was where Moses heard the ten commandments, and Mount Zion, where Jesus was transfigured.

Galatians 4 talks about this esp verse 24 and then you see there are two covenants one is of flesh and one is of spirit, who's child are you? Are you of the bondwoman or of the freewoman?

 

[At Peace]

For the last time, only God is perfect. With your free will you can aspire to be. This does not ever mean you actually will be.

Then it isn't free will.
Those in Christ have been enabled to serve Him perfectly.
Thanks be to God and the cleansing blood of His Son Jesus Christ.

Why would anybody "aspire" to an impossibility?

 

[Dave M]

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

we are made perfect though Jesus Christ this is spiritual while we are in the flesh we are not perfect. If we were perfect we would not need grace to be saved we could work our way to heaven and that is simply is not happening for anyone.

 

[At Peace]

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

we are made perfect though Jesus Christ this is spiritual while we are in the flesh we are not perfect. If we were perfect we would not need grace to be saved we could work our way to heaven and that is simply is not happening for anyone.

It pains me to see you can't fathom the illustrations of the death of the flesh, and life walked in the Spirit thereafter.
Romans 6:3-7 describes how and where/when the flesh is crucified, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. And the results.
Col. 2:11-13 also touches on this miracle from God.
Gal. 5:24 spells out "they that are Christ's".
"Skin" can't make you commit sin.

 

[Dave M]

Peace I get exactly what your saying brother but what we do not agree on is what is Holly and perfect only God is you seem to think you are perhaps I am wrong?? you think you can obtain that here in the flesh that is impossible only Jesus did that while in the flesh, we can spiritually through Christ but in the flesh in order to do that we need to keep all the Law no one can do that so we need another way to obtain salvation which is why we need grace. If we were perfect we would not need grace. the law exposes our sinful nature

 

[At Peace]

Peace I get exactly what your saying brother but what we do not agree on is what is Holly and perfect only God is you seem to think you are perhaps I am wrong?? you think you can obtain that here in the flesh that is impossible only Jesus did that while in the flesh, we can spiritually through Christ but in the flesh in order to do that we need to keep all the Law no one can do that so we need another way to obtain salvation which is why we need grace. If we were perfect we would not need grace. the law exposes our sinful nature

The bible says we can crucify the flesh, bury it, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The results?
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
The new creature is as holy as his brother Jesus Christ. Jesus is "not ashamed to call us brethren." (Heb 2:11)
Both are sons of God, and perfect. (In the sense that neither are slaves to the skin.)
Jesus has received His glorified body already, but we still await the final glory. (Phi 3:21)

BTW, we all need God's grace, to endure till the end. To grow from our initial levels of knowledge and ability.
For the protections and provisions of God.
To remain faithful.
To find open doors for communicating the gospel.
To overcome temptation.
And there are a great any other things that God's grace enables.
Thanks be to God!

 

[KingJ]

Scripture?
This makes zero sense.

I think I have posted this ten times now. Mark 10:18 'Only God is good'.

God is perfect, with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. We are a creation and one beneath the angels. We are only perfect to God because of our acceptance of Jesus. We are sanctified. This does not mean we are perfect beings like God. God is prepared to tolerate us with Him for all eternity.

This ''we are perfect like god'' sounds like something the devil said before he got removed from heaven .

 

[Lanolin]

I think I have posted this ten times now. Mark 10:18 'Only God is good'.

God is perfect, with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. We are a creation and one beneath the angels. We are only perfect to God because of our acceptance of Jesus. We are sanctified. This does not mean we are perfect beings like God. God is prepared to tolerate us with Him for all eternity.

This ''we are perfect like god'' sounds like something the devil said before he got removed from heaven .

Well nobody is saying they are God!
At Peace and Dave M you are posting the same things but seem to be misunderstanding each other. At peace has never said we are perfect in the flesh. We are perfect in the spirit, the flesh is just our container for the spirit. Its the temple!

If you remember back in the OT how God dwelled amongst his people well He couldnt be contained although He chose to connect with them at the tabernacle /tent and later King Solomon built a house for Him, and it was glorious...but the building itself is nothing. It got destroyed anyway because Jesus Christ he came in the flesh to dwell amongst us and then when he arose from the dead he sent his spirit to dwell within us. In our bodies. Cos he wants our souls in heaven where hes going to give us heavenly bodies. That are incorruptible and immortal, akin to angels.

The spirit is like the wind it blows where it wills, if people can understand that our flesh will decay but our bones wont if they have the spirit in them..see ezekiel about the valley of the dry bones. Remember how adam was formed out of clay and eve was from his rib..his bone. God makes the skeleton first then breathes life. Dont ask me how He does it He just does. Our flesh is temporary. It cant be perfect, its just our outer covering. Subject to corruption, like a flower that will fade.

In heaven nobody will be dying and we wont be aging and weak like we are on earth. It will be totally different we will be changed and transformed, but it doesnt mean Gods work hasnt already started on believers although we may not see it.

 

[KingJ]

1. Well nobody is saying they are God!

2. That are incorruptible and immortal, akin to angels.

3. Our flesh is temporary. 4. It cant be perfect, its just our outer covering. Subject to corruption, like a flower that will fade.

5. In heaven nobody will be dying and we wont be aging and weak like we are on earth. It will be totally different we will be changed and transformed, but it doesnt mean Gods work hasnt already started on believers although we may not see it.

1. If Jesus says only God is perfect and we then say we are perfect. Are we not saying we are a god? New age teaching is full of this kind of nonsense.
2. Angels are not incorruptible. They have ranks and will one-day be judged by us 1 Cor 6.
3. Yes, but who we 'are' remains forever. IE the human race. We never stop being the human race. A creation with high intelligence and free will. Able to say yes or no on every matter. Thus a high likelihood of there being ranks among humans in heaven. Some will want to serve God more then others.
4. It is not due to sin / corruption that the flesh fades. Adam and Eve were placed in sinless bodies that would still have expired had they not sinned.
5. Agreed. We just need to remember we remain humans. That guy that is saved by the skin of his teeth will now be 100% geared to serving God 100%? 1 Pet 4:18. I think not.

Remember Lanolin, Adam and Eve sinned (Matt 5:28) when they thought about eating the fruit before they were removed from Eden. Jesus says the devil has been sinning from the beginning 1 John 3:8. That means he was sinning in heaven, got promoted and then got removed. So what sin did he commit that got him removed?

It is the seed of Jesus in us that is incorruptible 1 Pet 1:23. There is nothing incorruptible about us. We just need to hold onto God's promise that He will never leave nor forsake us, even in heaven. God is a God. We are a creation. We cannot dictate to God. We live by His mercy.

 

[At Peace]

I think I have posted this ten times now. Mark 10:18 'Only God is good'.

Jesus suffered, died, and was raised from the grave so we all could be "good".
Your insistence on being "bad" serves nobody but the devil.

God is perfect, with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

Verse 7 says we too can walk in the light.
With "no darkness at all".

We are a creation and one beneath the angels. We are only perfect to God because of our acceptance of Jesus. We are sanctified. This does not mean we are perfect beings like God. God is prepared to tolerate us with Him for all eternity.

The angels are also a creation of God, and "under" God's level.
But are they not as perfect as can be?
And God would never have allowed His Son to be tortured and killed just so He could "tolerate us"
He loves us, and has provided a way for us to serve Him perfectly.

It seems to me that you use the skin as the reason for your inferiority.
But the reborn mans skin is, technically, Christ's skin. (Gal 2:20)
And nobody is equating themselves with God, so that avenue is closed.
We can be perfect in service to God and to our neighbor, without sin, always in the light, in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
Bad knees and the inability to do algebra do not make us any less perfect...to God.
Only sin will separate us from God.

This ''we are perfect like god'' sounds like something the devil said before he got removed from heaven .

Do you think Jesus is returning for a church that is not "perfect"?
It is written..." That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)
If you have surmised an impossibility of Him finding that on earth when He returns...then surely you won't be among them.
Repentance from sin and baptism into Christ's death are available to you if you desire that glorious reunion.

 

[At Peace]

Well nobody is saying they are God!

. At peace has never said we are perfect in the flesh. We are perfect in the spirit, the flesh is just our container for the spirit. Its the temple!
.

Yep, the skin is just a vessel, but after repentance from sin and baptism into Christ and into His death, it is perfect enough for the Holy Ghost to reside in us.
We can be "new creatures" now, without the degradation of the former descriptions of the "flesh".
Our new minds hold the steering wheel, not our now crucified lusts

 

[Lanolin]

Yep, the skin is just a vessel, but after repentance from sin and baptism into Christ and into His death, it is perfect enough for the Holy Ghost to reside in us.
We can be "new creatures" now, without the degradation of the former descriptions of the "flesh".
Our new minds hold the steering wheel, not our now crucified lusts

Gosh King J likes to argue.
I dont know where all these weird ideas are coming from cos Im certanly not the one propogate them. God sees perfection in the heart, He actually sees perfection in things we dont necesarily think are perfect. The devil will try and sell you a line that if its perfect on the outside and looks good and feels good then you are like a god but nobody seriously believes that except maybe some deluded sports and movie stars.

I can name one - shirley maclaine.

 

[KingJ]

Jesus suffered, died, and was raised from the grave so we all could be "good".
1. Your insistence on being "bad" serves nobody but the devil.

Verse 7 says we too can walk in the light.
With "no darkness at all".

The angels are also a creation of God, and "under" God's level.
2. But are they not as perfect as can be?
3. And God would never have allowed His Son to be tortured and killed just so He could "tolerate us"
He loves us, and has provided a way for us to serve Him perfectly.

4. It seems to me that you use the skin as the reason for your inferiority.
But the reborn mans skin is, technically, Christ's skin. (Gal 2:20)
5. And nobody is equating themselves with God, so that avenue is closed.
We can be perfect in service to God and to our neighbor, without sin, always in the light, in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
Bad knees and the inability to do algebra do not make us any less perfect...to God.
6. Only sin will separate us from God.

7. Do you think Jesus is returning for a church that is not "perfect"?
It is written..." That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)
If you have surmised an impossibility of Him finding that on earth when He returns...then surely you won't be among them.
Repentance from sin and baptism into Christ's death are available to you if you desire that glorious reunion.

1. Saying we are not perfect is not saying we are evil.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I don't see this verse supporting your statement. It is quite literally explaining that it is Jesus's blood that makes us clean / perfect. IE We are perfect when covered by His blood. This does not mean 'we' are perfect beings who do not sin. A completely different verse and meaning to 1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

2. Perfect as can be? I am sure they have 'their days'. God is reasonable.
3. Tolerate our rebellion.
4. No I don't.
5. But you are. I have already explained this. Please see post # 115 point 1.
6. Define sin. The wages of sin is death. Every human in the OT went to death. Because every human sins. But in death there were two homes. Those in Abrahams bosom were those in death that had repented sincerely of their sins. Hated their sin more then they loved it. These are the humans that God chooses to wash clean and adopt into heaven. Their hearts are good. Albeit they rebel now and then. I have already explained this to you.
7. Define perfection. See my post # 82 to you.

 

[KingJ]

Gosh King J likes to argue.

We have an obligation to defend the truth and expose heresy. When we say '''we'' are good like God, we are in extreme error. Close to committing the same sin that got the devil booted out of heaven.

Have you not heard how new age Christianity says ''we'' cast demons out and heal the sick. We don't need to say ''let your will be done God'' or ''God please heal so and so''. It is ''leave. I command it''. Hilarious and concerning ''Christianity''.

God sees perfection in the heart,

I wouldn't say our hearts are perfect. But He does see depth of intent when we repent and accept Jesus. It is also important to grasp that our mind is 'renewed' and not 'whitewashed'.

 

[At Peace]

Gosh King J likes to argue.
I dont know where all these weird ideas are coming from cos Im certanly not the one propogate them. God sees perfection in the heart, He actually sees perfection in things we dont necesarily think are perfect. The devil will try and sell you a line that if its perfect on the outside and looks good and feels good then you are like a god but nobody seriously believes that except maybe some deluded sports and movie stars.

I can name one - shirley maclaine.

Pray for her to come to repentance.

 

[At Peace]

1. Saying we are not perfect is not saying we are evil.

"God is light and in Him is no darkness at all"...pretty much shoots down your POV.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Then you missed the "ALL SIN" part of the verse.
If ALL our sin can be cleansed, what prohibits us from saying exactly what the verse says will happen?
"I am without sin...because it was cleansed by the blood of Christ."
Of course it is our responsibility to remain in the light henceforth.

I don't see this verse supporting your statement. It is quite literally explaining that it is Jesus's blood that makes us clean / perfect. IE We are perfect when covered by His blood. This does not mean 'we' are perfect beings who do not sin. A completely different verse and meaning to 1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Your fixation on remaining "imperfect" has blinded you to what you are posting.
Darkness is sin, (Pro 4:19) and there is no sin "in God".
Are you "in God"? Or not?

2. Perfect as can be? I am sure they have 'their days'. God is reasonable

You sell the angels who fought against satan short.
.

3. Tolerate our rebellion.

God has assigned a day when they will return...with fire to cleanse the old earth.

4. No I don't.

You are definitely unaware that it is His skin after our rebirth. (Gal 2:20)

5. But you are. I have already explained this. Please see post # 115 point 1.

You are using an OT, preresurrection verse in the NT, wherein we can be "in Christ".

6. Define sin.
The wages of sin is death. Every human in the OT went to death. Because every human sins. But in death there were two homes. Those in Abrahams bosom were those in death that had repented sincerely of their sins. Hated their sin more then they loved it. These are the humans that God chooses to wash clean and adopt into heaven. Their hearts are good. Albeit they rebel now and then. I have already explained this to you.

It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin:" (1 John 5:17)
Enoch didn't "die", and neither did Abraham, Jacob, Isaac or Elijah.
"God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt 22:32)
(You are clearly endowing the skin with too much importance.)
The Abraham's bosom story was a parable, intended to teach a moral, ie...no unrighteous men will be allowed into heaven.
If "the hearts are good", they wouldn't sometimes be evil.

7. Define perfection. See my post # 82 to you.

Perfection?...loving God above all else and our neighbors as ourselves.
The simplicity of Christ.

 

[At Peace]

We have an obligation to defend the truth and expose heresy. When we say '''we'' are good like God, we are in extreme error. Close to committing the same sin that got the devil booted out of heaven.

Would that be the "truth" that Jesus said could free you from committing sin, in John 8:32-34?

Have you not heard how new age Christianity says ''we'' cast demons out and heal the sick. We don't need to say ''let your will be done God'' or ''God please heal so and so''. It is ''leave. I command it''. Hilarious and concerning ''Christianity''.

Is it God's will that we continue to commit sin?

I wouldn't say our hearts are perfect. But He does see depth of intent when we repent and accept Jesus. It is also important to grasp that our mind is 'renewed' and not 'whitewashed'.

I hope you can see that you are defending "imperfection" ie...sin.
You don't have to mount that defense anymore, if you are in Christ.

 

[amadeus2]

So then can anyone ever become perfect? Jesus told us to be perfect:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Would He have told us to do something that God had made it impossible for us to do?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

For us alone in our flesh without God it is impossible, but... did Jesus come for nothing? Is He not dwelling in us now?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

To say that Christ in us cannot overcome all sin and all the pathways that lead to sin is, I believe, to call Him a liar.

People too often look at the old man of themselves which is not completely dead and say that God cannot overcome all of the temptations that lead us to sin so we can overcome as Jesus overcame.

Look to the rewards of overcomers in Revelation chapters 2 & 3 [seven total] but especially to this one:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7 [See also Gen 3:22]

It would seem to me that anyone who does NOT overcome, will not be able to eat of the Tree of Life and therefore will NOT live forever.

People who stand on a negative faith [for example: I cannot be perfect] are denying the power of God. Jesus spoke also of this:

"... According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

If we believe that we can then according to our faith, we can. If we believe that we cannot, then according to our lack of faith, we cannot.

Jesus is not liar and we should not try to make Him one in order to excuse our own shortcomings. Jesus did not come for nothing. He came so that we could have Life and be like Him. The price has been paid and the necessary tools provided. It is done through faith, NOT negative faith:

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

And what is it that we are to overcome? I would think it is all that is in our own little world of self:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

 

[At Peace]

So then can anyone ever become perfect? Jesus told us to be perfect:
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48
Would He have told us to do something that God had made it impossible for us to do?
"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27
For us alone in our flesh without God it is impossible, but... did Jesus come for nothing? Is He not dwelling in us now?
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:
To say that Christ in us cannot overcome all sin and all the pathways that lead to sin is, I believe, to call Him a liar.
People too often look at the old man of themselves which is not completely dead and say that God cannot overcome all of the temptations that lead us to sin so we can overcome as Jesus overcame.
Look to the rewards of overcomers in Revelation chapters 2 & 3 [seven total] but especially to this one:
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7 [See also Gen 3:22]
It would seem to me that anyone who does NOT overcome, will not be able to eat of the Tree of Life and therefore will NOT live forever.
People who stand on a negative faith [for example: I cannot be perfect] are denying the power of God. Jesus spoke also of this:
"... According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29
If we believe that we can then according to our faith, we can. If we believe that we cannot, then according to our lack of faith, we cannot.
Jesus is not liar and we should not try to make Him one in order to excuse our own shortcomings. Jesus did not come for nothing. He came so that we could have Life and be like Him. The price has been paid and the necessary tools provided. It is done through faith, NOT negative faith:
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
And what is it that we are to overcome? I would think it is all that is in our own little world of self:
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

Am I detecting a change of heart from you?

 

[amadeus2]

Am I detecting a change of heart from you?

No, not at all! I have believed that way for many years.
What do you think has changed?