What is Sin & is it OK to be Sin Free?

[Br. Bear]

As I write this.. I am praying that God will reveal the truth (not my truth... not your truth... but His truth)
to all of us.

A good place to begin, Sir.


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

We can agree on the fact that God wants us to serve Him in Spirit and in truth, but you apparently don't think God has provided a way for us to do so. I know He has.

You are blurring three issues. 1. being perfect, 2. being perfect to God, 3. free will.

Only God is perfect. There are no ifs and buts after or before Mark 10:18. Saying He said He, or someone else is good is false. He did not say that. We have the ability to say 'no' to God, now and in heaven. Is that rebellion? yes. Is it rebellion that makes us imperfect to God? Unless its a 'no' to Jesus, no.

Since God is good He allows free will.

What I gather from you is that you believe we are either perfect demigods or have no free will. You believe you will lose free will in heaven? We are all perfect people in heaven? How do you explain ranks among angels?

This is why we need to properly define sin. You are correct if your definition of sin is anything that warrants us missing out on heaven. We are 'perfect' for heaven. Whereas I see sin as any form of rebellion to God and His will. Anything that upsets Him. My wife upsets me often. This does not mean she is not perfect to me or that I need to divorce her. She would need to really upset me, like adultery Matt 5:32. It's the same with God.

 

[KingJ]

Everytime I do this thing,
I ask for repentance. If you have been doing it for 20 or 30 years... you haven't repented.

Matt 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

We are imperfect. It is the natural consequence of a highly intelligent creation with free will.

God's greatest achievement is His love given to us in Jesus that enables Him to house us imperfect people with Him for all eternity.

I don't believe repentance ever stops.

 

[Dave M]

I do have to agree with you at least partly... this perception that they are two different things...
Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining that it is really one and the same thing.

Perhaps you can do a better job of explaining how they are in fact.... two separate things?

I promise you, I am not being facetious here. I am really interested in how they are "different".

As I write this.. I am praying that God will reveal the truth (not my truth... not your truth... but His truth)
to all of us.

The way I see it and maybe I am wrong, but this thread is divided two groups of thought.

1. one group is saying once you are saved you are perfect and will sin no longer. I disagree with that.

2. second group is being completely misunderstood is the way I see it, the first group seems to be thinking the second group is saying its ok to be live in sin, to keep sinning, we are saved by grace we do not need to be perfect.
And thats how I saw your post BAC maybe I am wrong I hope so.

2. second group is saying we are saved we will be changed we are not a slave to sin but we will not be perfect

Because the way I see at least for me is once we are saved we are transformed but its a process, and takes obedience and we will no longer be a slave to sin but we will not be perfect, most people do not get transformed over night it usually takes time and. obedience. And even the most mature Christians will have a unpure thought perhaps for one second in a day that is sin, so no one will be perfect.

Its obvious everyone in this thread loves Jesus and wants to serve him, so it saddens me when hurtful dialog (not from you BAC) but from Lanolin she often accuses people of things when someone does not agree with her point of view, she accused me of making Jesus a liar in this thread how hurtful, just because I have a different view of scripture. I personally do not see how anyone can be perfect until we have glorified bodies. Yes I do see how we are changed and way way better then before and are constantly being changed for the better as we mature but I see it as a process that is not complete until we have glorified bodies, at Peice and Lanolin and maybe you BAC seem to be saying we are perfect now the second we receive Christ we sin no longer I respectfully disagree with that. As long as we are in flesh we have to battle with a sin nature that alone is sinful and makes us a sinner.

I almost get the impression some of the people like Peice and Lanolin think they are righteous on there own work.

BAC I saw your post saying to me that people in this thread are almost endorsing sin saying its ok to sin so I wanted make sure you knew that I did not see that at all, no one here is saying that, most people sin every day and do not even realize it, I think the closer we get to God to the more we see how un-pure we really are.

Thanks for polite thoughtful conduct in your post BAC. God bless you.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Of course every Christian "thinks" they are born again.

Yep, that is a problem, church is full of them...When I first became a Christian, I realized that I had been just a "Bench Warmer" for 20 yrs. and went back to church with a renewed vigor. I searched for BAC's to share our experiences....I found very few...most probably were but, only a couple knew what it meant!

In my case... B-A-C stands for Born Again Christian.

Again, I have known you for a long time and though I see too much legalism in your views, I have always thought, from other things you say that you were a true Christian....I will never look at B-A-C the same way again.

We are of course able to be born physically,

If you are here, you have had no choice

and we are more than capable of "dying" physically.

Again, you have no choice.

and we are capable of dying spiritually.

Ah!!! but you do have a CHOICE...you can die either with Christ in you or with Christ not in you!

I myself have never left God

I know, but the question is ( and please answer if you will)''....could you B-A-C, LEAVE God?

I've known dozens of people who have. Some have been pastors,
missionaries, worship leaders.

You still have no evidence that any of these people were truly believed in God in their hearts. We now have Gay Pastors among us, are they saved you think?

living Godly lives...
simply by virtue of "believing in Jesus".

Again, churches are full of these people.

Deut 29:25; "Then men will say, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.
Deut 32:15; "But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Jdgs 2:12; and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jdgs 2:13; So they forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtaroth.
Jdgs 10:6; Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him.
1Kin 9:9; "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the LORD has brought all this adversity on them.'"

Again, there is no evidence that these people truly believed in their hearts that God was who He said He was!.....Pharisees and Sadducee's of Jesus day were a prime example!

 

[B-A-C]

There is an old native American legend, of course this isn't in the Bible... but I will include it here for a point.

A grandfather is talking with his grandson and he says there are two wolves inside of us which are always at war with each other.

One of them is a good wolf which represents things like kindness, bravery and love. The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred and fear.

The grandson stops and thinks about it for a second then he looks up at his grandfather and says, “Grandfather, which one wins?”

The grandfather quietly replies, the one you feed

Now while this story isn't in the Bible.... the principle is.

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

For the record, I do not believe the transformation is instant in most cases. Wheat, fruit, seeds, all take time to grow.

But where does the Bible say we "have" to keep sinning after we are saved?

How much are we "allowed" to sin?

1. As much as we want to, with no consequences. (Grace covers all)

2. 49% of the time, as long as I am "feeding the good wolf" 51% of the time.

3. As much as we want, provided it isn't on purpose.

4. Seven times seventy? (I am pretty sure even 490 times wouldn't be enough for many people).

5. Some other arbitrary amount?

I think some people want a formula... they want hard numbers.... "exactly how far can I go"?

Others think I'm OK... as long as I don't sin "most of the time". Both of the lines of thinking reveal
the heart. Instead of thinking "how righteous and Godly can I be". Some people are more interested in "how
sinful and wicked am I allowed to be... (and still remain in God's grace).

I think there is grace for sin, when Christians sin. But I also think many use the "grace card" to the point
where it is no longer grace.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Some people use grace as an excuse to sin. I stand by my statement, if someone is repenting of the same sin
for 30 years.... they haven't really repented. As Romans 6:16; puts it... they are still obeying sin... thus they are a
slave to sin. (The bad wolf wins)

Luke 13:5; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

I truly believe in my heart, that God doesn't want us to be slaves of sin until our dying day.

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Rom 12:2; And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Php 3:15; Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

Heb 12:23; to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Jas 1:4; And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

It seems that some people in the church were "perfect".

Jas 1:25; But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Jas 3:2; For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

I admit... that last verse is a two edged sword... "we stumble"... but yet some are able to be perfect.

2 Pet 3:14; Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,

Jude 1:24; Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

Now atPeace and Lanolin and I disagree on a few things... immediate perfection is one of those things.
But I also disagree that we can never get there.

2 Tim 3:1; But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 Tim 3:2; For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3; unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
2 Tim 3:4; treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

It seems that if we are lovers of self, money, arrogant, disobedient... etc... all the way to our grave... We have effectually denied the power of God.

I am not accusing anyone here of being that way... but the Bible makes it clear those people exist.

 

[SearchforBelievers]

Would you be kind enough to say what this is relevant to?

The Word of God is a two edged sword, and will cut where it may.

I guess your POV is that it is NOT OK to be sin free. (As per the OP)
In 1 John 1, John is describing the walk of two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the darkness-sin, and those who walk in the light-God.
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing here, (as did Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh)
A, is those in darkness...They cannot say they have fellowship with God, they cannot say they have no sin, and they cannot say they never sinned.
B, is those who walk in the light...They can say they have fellowship with God, they can say the have no sin, and they can say they confessed their past sins before being washed of all sin by the blood of Christ.

It is only men walking in darkness who cannot say they have no sin.

I guess your POV is that it is NOT OK to be sin free. (As per the OP)
In 1 John 1, John is describing the walk of two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the darkness-sin, and those who walk in the light-God.
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B, style of writing here, (as did Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh)
A, is those in darkness...They cannot say they have fellowship with God, they cannot say they have no sin, and they cannot say they never sinned.
B, is those who walk in the light...They can say they have fellowship with God, they can say the have no sin, and they can say they confessed their past sins before being washed of all sin by the blood of Christ.

It is only men walking in darkness who cannot say they have no sin.

Love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced His perfect love. Are we beginning to praise ourselves again? Are we like others, who need to bring you letters of recommendation, or who ask you to write such letters on their behalf? Surely not. Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame. Of course we know, that at a curtain moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. The Lord God called to the man saying; “Where are you"? he replied; I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself. Who told you that you were naked?” the LORD God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?
Notice this is a two part question the Lord asks Adam: He first asks “WHO told you, you were naked? Implying that SOMEONE told them of their nudity. The Lord was not ignorant of man’s recent encounter with the serpent; HE knew exactly how things transpired. Just like when He asked Adam “Where are you,” do you honestly believe that the Lord didn’t know? It was a heart question that Adam heard the Lord ask in the garden that day, a question that all hear when they are hiding from God.
“Where are you,” is not a question concerning a geographical location, it’s a question that cuts straight to the heart and speaks to your sin and asks, “whose voice are you listening to now?” Where are you? Means: If you are no longer walking in accordance to MY will, whose will are you walking in accordance to? For you have moved outside of MY will. His question about "WHO told you, you were naked?", makes it evident that a person’s nakedness can only be perceived if SOMEONE tells them they are naked. The Lord could have said, “How do you know that you are naked?” but He didn’t. He said “Who told you?
Now, not only did they know what sin was; they understood what it meant to turn from what is good and choose evil instead.
This is why they hid themselves amongst the many trees in the garden. This is very similar as to why some go to large churches; often times, it’s to blend in among the masses. The Garden of Eden in Hebrew means the Garden of Pleasure. The Garden represents the earth and we are its trees. Numerous times in scriptures the Lord compares us to trees i.e. (you can tell a tree by its fruit) When we know we have sinned we hide ourselves amongst the trees of the world in hopes that God won’t see us or our sins in the midst of everyone else’s. But we as children of God will always hear the voice of the Lord walking in the garden of this world calling out to us, “Where are you?” whenever we stretched forth our hand for that forbidden fruit.
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous — not even one. And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants he shall be to his brethren.” And he said: “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem, and May Canaan be his servant. May God enlarge Japheth, and may he dwell in the tents of Shem; and may Canaan be his servant.
In the case of Noah’s sons, the hearts of each man was revealed. Ham after happening upon his father’s weakened and shameful condition went immediately and told his two brothers of the news. Shem and Japheth handled the news like true Christians and demonstrated the true love of God by covering Noah’s nakedness without looking upon his shame. When we approach one another’s weaknesses with this heart attitude, we will be just like the man in the parable Jesus told about the Good Samaritan that demonstrated what a neighbor was and what being a neighbor meant.
All a man’s ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD.
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.” But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’ Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.

 

[At Peace]

You are blurring three issues. 1. being perfect, 2. being perfect to God, 3. free will.

When I mention being "perfect", it is in the realm of obedience to God.
We can obey Him without fault...since we were given the gifts of repentance and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
We are also given the gift of the Holy Ghost-Comforter, and the mind of Christ.

Only God is perfect. There are no ifs and buts after or before Mark 10:18. Saying He said He, or someone else is good is false. He did not say that. We have the ability to say 'no' to God, now and in heaven. Is that rebellion? yes. Is it rebellion that makes us imperfect to God? Unless its a 'no' to Jesus, no.

The only imperfections we have are those of a physical or knowledge based perspective.
To get those remedied we will "endure till the end", in hope of our glorified bodies.
But a body with bad knees, spotty memory, and glasses can still remain obedient to his Redeemer.

Since God is good He allows free will

.
What I gather from you is that you believe we are either perfect demigods or have no free will. You believe you will lose free will in heaven? We are all perfect people in heaven? How do you explain ranks among angels?

It is because of the gift of free-will that we CAN choose to serve God perfectly...I will to do so.
I don't know why you feel I think we will lose our free-will in heaven, as it is heaven, where our will is still focused on God. And if we "want" a Twinkie, it will be served quickly.
As to "ranks with angels"...I never considered it before.
The vessel Jesus transverses the world with, in me, will eventually show it's inferiority to the angels, but my mind and spirit's-soul's "rank" are inconsequential.
I don't compare myself with angels, but I do make every effort to remain subservient to God.

This is why we need to properly define sin. You are correct if your definition of sin is anything that warrants us missing out on heaven. We are 'perfect' for heaven.

That being said, you infer that neither of us commits sin.
As sin will be the cause of every sinner's "missing out on heaven".

Whereas I see sin as any form of rebellion to God and His will. Anything that upsets Him.

Agreed.
Don't you equate "rebellion against God" and "making Him upset" with sin?
I do.

My wife upsets me often. This does not mean she is not perfect to me or that I need to divorce her. She would need to really upset me, like adultery Matt 5:32. It's the same with God.

Is she not a Christian?
Is she unaware of her place,or your's, in the "hierarchy" of your household?
(This last part may be better served with a new thread)...

 

[At Peace]

Matt 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

We are imperfect. It is the natural consequence of a highly intelligent creation with free will.

God's greatest achievement is His love given to us in Jesus that enables Him to house us imperfect people with Him for all eternity.

I don't believe repentance ever stops.

You need a better definition of repentance.
To me, it means "turn from", or, "change".
If you are still doing the same sins over again, you neither "turned" nor "changed".

 

[At Peace]

The Word of God is a two edged sword, and will cut where it may.

OK Thanks...but the water has gone too far under the bridge for me to get anything from that.

 

[At Peace]

Love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced His perfect love. Are we beginning to praise ourselves again? Are we like others, who need to bring you letters of recommendation, or who ask you to write such letters on their behalf? Surely not. Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame. Of course we know, that at a curtain moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. The Lord God called to the man saying; “Where are you"? he replied; I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself. Who told you that you were naked?” the LORD God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?
Notice this is a two part question the Lord asks Adam: He first asks “WHO told you, you were naked? Implying that SOMEONE told them of their nudity. The Lord was not ignorant of man’s recent encounter with the serpent; HE knew exactly how things transpired. Just like when He asked Adam “Where are you,” do you honestly believe that the Lord didn’t know? It was a heart question that Adam heard the Lord ask in the garden that day, a question that all hear when they are hiding from God.
“Where are you,” is not a question concerning a geographical location, it’s a question that cuts straight to the heart and speaks to your sin and asks, “whose voice are you listening to now?” Where are you? Means: If you are no longer walking in accordance to MY will, whose will are you walking in accordance to? For you have moved outside of MY will. His question about "WHO told you, you were naked?", makes it evident that a person’s nakedness can only be perceived if SOMEONE tells them they are naked. The Lord could have said, “How do you know that you are naked?” but He didn’t. He said “Who told you?
Now, not only did they know what sin was; they understood what it meant to turn from what is good and choose evil instead.
This is why they hid themselves amongst the many trees in the garden. This is very similar as to why some go to large churches; often times, it’s to blend in among the masses. The Garden of Eden in Hebrew means the Garden of Pleasure. The Garden represents the earth and we are its trees. Numerous times in scriptures the Lord compares us to trees i.e. (you can tell a tree by its fruit) When we know we have sinned we hide ourselves amongst the trees of the world in hopes that God won’t see us or our sins in the midst of everyone else’s. But we as children of God will always hear the voice of the Lord walking in the garden of this world calling out to us, “Where are you?” whenever we stretched forth our hand for that forbidden fruit.
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous — not even one. And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants he shall be to his brethren.” And he said: “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem, and May Canaan be his servant. May God enlarge Japheth, and may he dwell in the tents of Shem; and may Canaan be his servant.
In the case of Noah’s sons, the hearts of each man was revealed. Ham after happening upon his father’s weakened and shameful condition went immediately and told his two brothers of the news. Shem and Japheth handled the news like true Christians and demonstrated the true love of God by covering Noah’s nakedness without looking upon his shame. When we approach one another’s weaknesses with this heart attitude, we will be just like the man in the parable Jesus told about the Good Samaritan that demonstrated what a neighbor was and what being a neighbor meant.
All a man’s ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD.
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.” But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said, ‘Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’ Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.

Do you think that a man who has "crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24) is still in the "realm of the flesh"?

 

[SearchforBelievers]

Do you think that a man who has "crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24) is still in the "realm of the flesh"?

I will answer your question, if you answer mine. Is it possible to be burdened, again, by a yolk of slavery, when one is standing firm, being set free by Christ Jesus? Why is it, that if you let yourself be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all? Has it not been declared to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law? If we are justified by the law, does that not alienate us from Christ? Have you fallen away from Grace? What is Grace, and why do those in Christ need it? Is it not through the Spirit - that - we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope? Are you not running a good race? Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? Are we not called to be free? Do you walk by the Spirit? And, if you are in the Spirit, do you no longer deal with the desires of the flesh? Is it not written that if whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart? And, if one speaks foul of his brother is guilty of murder? And also, whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire? Should we not declare by my rejoicing in one-another which we have in Christ Jesus our Lord: We die daily? And did you crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts, and if so, how?

 

[At Peace]

I will answer your question, if you answer mine.

OK.

Is it possible to be burdened, again, by a yolk of slavery, when one is standing firm, being set free by Christ Jesus?

No.
And I understand you to mean slavery to sin. (John 8:32-34)
Upon further reading of your post it seems you are referring to the Mosaic Law's bondage.
And again, No.
We are free from the works of the law in Christ. And by Christ.

Why is it, that if you let yourself be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all?

That is a second question.
And I believe quite the opposite.
Among other things, we are to pray "in His name", and to be carriers of the Spirit of God till our vessel wears out or is killed.

Has it not been declared to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law?

I understand that the circumcision you refer to is of the heart, and not of the "flesh" and of the Mosaic Law.
The "law" we are to obey completely now is the law of Christ, ie...love God above all else and our neighbor as ourselves.

If we are justified by the law, does that not alienate us from Christ? Have you fallen away from Grace? What is Grace, and why do those in Christ need it? Is it not through the Spirit - that - we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope? Are you not running a good race? Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? Are we not called to be free? Do you walk by the Spirit? And, if you are in the Spirit, do you no longer deal with the desires of the flesh? Is it not written that if whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart? And, if one speaks foul of his brother is guilty of murder? And also, whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire? Should we not declare by my rejoicing in one-another which we have in Christ Jesus our Lord: We die daily? And did you crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts, and if so, how?

You have derailed the thread with questions of Mosaic Law,
Now, how about your answer to my question?

 

[SearchforBelievers]

Would you be kind enough to say what this is relevant to?

The name of the thread is "What is Sin & is it okay to be sin free?"
Romans 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
It is quite simple, anything that comes not from faith is sin, hence giving a simple scripture based answer to the question of the thread, "What is sin?"

OK Thanks...but the water has gone too far under the bridge for me to get anything from that.

Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

OK Thanks...but the water has gone too far under the bridge for me to get anything from that.

And also, are rivers of living water not gushing from your belly? If you are thirsty, and the water has all gone too far under the bridge for you to get anything from that , then is the water gone, and beneath the bridge a dry river? And is the Word of God not quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart?

OK.
No.
And I understand you to mean slavery to sin. (John 8:32-34)
Upon further reading of your post it seems you are referring to the Mosaic Law's bondage.
And again, No.
We are free from the works of the law in Christ. And by Christ.

You did quote Galatians 5 to question rather or not one would think that a man who has "crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24) is still in the "realm of the flesh".
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled "again" with the yoke of bondage.
KJV. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled "again" with the yoke of bondage. Oh, there's that word, AGAIN.

That is a second question.

Never once was it specified how many questions would be asked to you, only that your one would be answered, provided that you would answer mine, which gives no numeric value as to how many "question" would be given.

I believe quite the opposite.
Among other things, we are to pray "in His name", and to be carriers of the Spirit of God till our vessel wears out or is killed.

Apparently so, you believe quite the opposite that is. For it is written also in Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

I understand that the circumcision you refer to is of the heart, and not of the "flesh" and of the Mosaic Law.
The "law" we are to obey completely now is the law of Christ, ie...love God above all else and our neighbor as ourselves.

The correct answer is, YES. It is a simple yes or no answer for it is also written in Galatians 5
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Therefore, it has been declared.

You have derailed the thread with questions of Mosaic Law, Now, how about your answer to my question?

You have derailed from fulfilling your word of "OK" by not answering the rest of the questions, and also where have questions of Mosaic Law been introduced by specification; "What is Sin" - however - being the topic for this thread would be quite appropriate to bring in questions of Mosaic Law, would you not agree?
Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

 

[KingJ]

You need a better definition of repentance.
To me, it means "turn from", or, "change".
If you are still doing the same sins over again, you neither "turned" nor "changed".

We agree if the sin is say 'continuing in murdering people' (mortal sin). But If the sin is immoral thoughts (venial sin). No.

God did not obliterate Sodom, Gomorrah and the earth at the time of Noah, because people had biweekly immoral thoughts of envy, lust or greed.

Some sins just don't go away. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Now we know Paul did not continue in murdering Christians (mortal sin). So what was he doing that he hated?

 

[At Peace]

We agree if the sin is say 'continuing in murdering people' (mortal sin). But If the sin is immoral thoughts (venial sin). No.

It is written..."For the wages of sin is death..." (Rom 6:23)
I see no differentiation between murder and lies.
Any sin will warrant a second death.

God did not obliterate Sodom, Gomorrah and the earth at the time of Noah, because people had biweekly immoral thoughts of envy, lust or greed.

Got a scripture for that?
Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden for disobedience. Not murder.
The Jews of Egypt were denied the promised land because of idolatry...among other things.
With 1 John 3:9 in mind, any sin shows who a sinner is the child of.

Some sins just don't go away. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Now we know Paul did not continue in murdering Christians (mortal sin). So what was he doing that he hated?

You can't use Romans 7 to justify sin, ant that is exactly what you are doing.
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

All your sin would "go away" if you ever decide to REALLY repent of ALL sin.
Then get baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of your past sins, killing the flesh and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
A life walked in the light instead of in the darkness.
A life walked in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

 

[At Peace]

The name of the thread is "What is Sin & is it okay to be sin free?"
Romans 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
It is quite simple, anything that comes not from faith is sin, hence giving a simple scripture based answer to the question of the thread, "What is sin?"

OK, if it is not of faith it is sin.
No disagreement from me.

And also, are rivers of living water not gushing from your belly? If you are thirsty, and the water has all gone too far under the bridge for you to get anything from that , then is the water gone, and beneath the bridge a dry river? And is the Word of God not quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart?

You are mixing your metaphors..

You did quote Galatians 5 to question rather or not one would think that a man who has "crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24) is still in the "realm of the flesh".
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled "again" with the yoke of bondage.
KJV. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled "again" with the yoke of bondage. Oh, there's that word, AGAIN.

Actually, I asked just you if you thought that.
You are avoiding the answer.
Obey the exhortations and live.
Disobey and suffer the second death.

Never once was it specified how many questions would be asked to you, only that your one would be answered, provided that you would answer mine, which gives no numeric value as to how many "question" would be given.

In context, that being I asked a single question and you replied with the demand to answer your question first, my response was in the perspective of a single question.

Apparently so, you believe quite the opposite that is. For it is written also in Galatians 5
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Yep.
But he is referring to the circumcision of the flesh as mandated by the Mosaic Law.
Not the circumcision of the heart that the repentant undergo when the are crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-7, Col 2:11-12)

The correct answer is, YES. It is a simple yes or no answer for it is also written in Galatians 5
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Therefore, it has been declared.

Agreed.
If one relies on the "works of the law" for salvation he is indebted to the whole law.

You have derailed from fulfilling your word of "OK" by not answering the rest of the questions, and also where have questions of Mosaic Law been introduced by specification; "What is Sin" - however - being the topic for this thread would be quite appropriate to bring in questions of Mosaic Law, would you not agree?
Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

I wasn't aware that I needed to answer ten of your questions to get one answer from you.
All I tried to do was delineate between fleshly circumcision and spiritual circumcision and the works of the law from the freedoms in the law to Christ.
You make it difficult to see from what angle you come from.

Now, how about that original question...Do you believe that a man who has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts is still in the "realm of the flesh"?

 

[KingJ]

It is written..."For the wages of sin is death..." (Rom 6:23)
1. I see no differentiation between murder and lies.
2. Any sin will warrant a second death.


3. Got a scripture for that?
Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden for disobedience. Not murder.
The Jews of Egypt were denied the promised land because of idolatry...among other things.
With 1 John 3:9 in mind, any sin shows who a sinner is the child of.


4. You can't use Romans 7 to justify sin, ant that is exactly what you are doing.
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

5. All your sin would "go away" if you ever decide to REALLY repent of ALL sin.
Then get baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of your past sins, killing the flesh and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
6. A life walked in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

1. I can't believe you wrote that.
2. In the OT there were two places in death / Hades. Abrahams bosom and the other side of Hades. Why were there people in AB? Was God partial?
3. Just read every OT law that God ordained disobedience to result in the death penalty.
4. We have already discussed Rom 7. He is referring to living by the spirit and being judged by the spirit. Albeit the spirit is in a very imperfect flesh.
5. Please stop saying you are without sin. According to scripture you deceive yourself 1 John 1:8.
6. A flesh that still sins? How do you believe your spirit in heaven will exercise free will?

 

[At Peace]

1. I can't believe you wrote that.
2. In the OT there were two places in death / Hades. Abrahams bosom and the other side of Hades. Why were there people in AB? Was God partial?
3. Just read every OT law that God ordained disobedience to result in the death penalty.
4. We have already discussed Rom 7. He is referring to living by the spirit and being judged by the spirit. Albeit the spirit is in a very imperfect flesh.
5. Please stop saying you are without sin. According to scripture you deceive yourself 1 John 1:8.
6. A flesh that still sins? How do you believe your spirit in heaven will exercise free will?

I'm sorry to see you still live n the OT.
In the NT, the "very imperfect flesh" has been crucified with Christ, (Rom 6:3-7)
Its former standing has been nullified and is now sanctified by the blood of Christ.
It isn't our flesh anymore. It is His vessel.
If you are still "in the flesh", you most certainly are not exhibiting the works of the Spirit.

If you would read 1 John 1:7 and 9 you would see that ALL our sins/unrighteousness can be washed/cleansed , making us...what?
Sin free!
Thanks be to God, and thanks be to God for the tools and grace to remain in the light till the end!

You seem to be unaware that some folks use their "free will" to obey God.
Why should heaven constrain that will?

 

[KingJ]

You seem to be unaware that some folks use their "free will" to obey God.
Why should heaven constrain that will?

For the last time, only God is perfect. With your free will you can aspire to be. This does not ever mean you actually will be.