PloughBoy
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Well, I guess we are on the same ship, "The Ship of Zion". One body, when I proclaim to others, I also proclaim to my
Self. Right.
What is... the "church"?
- Thread starter B-A-C
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Self. Right.
Brother-Paul
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Following on with... What is the... Church
The following I have taken from - The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery which statesstates... [In Italics]
The Bible provides a rich kaleidoscope of imagery about the church composed of around one hundred metaphors and statements.
The thread on which all other jewels are hung is the idea of the church as an ekklesia (“assembly,” “gathering”). This word, taken from common usage where it applied to the “calling out” of citizens for a civic meeting or of soldiers for battle, is used extensively throughout the Old and New Testaments to refer to the people of God (e.g., Deut 4:10; 9:10; 31:30; Mt 16:18; 18:17; Acts 5:11; Rom 16:5; 1 Cor 1:2; Eph 1:22; 3:10; Heb 12:23).
Looking at these verses and comparing the OT and the NT, there is a clear difference regarding The Church, though both refer to an assembly or congregation and to 'People of God'. To the Jews first who were God's people, whether they followed God all the time or worshipped idols at other times, the Jews were God's chosen people. To the Jews and Gentiles after Jesus' Ministry, death, resurrection and ascension, only those who are born again from above are God's people, people of God.
Looking at the references above, taken from Dictionary of Biblical Imagery for the word Church, ekklesia, OT H6950, NT G1577.
Deuteronomy 4:10 (NKJV)
10 especially concerning the day you stood before the LORD your God in Horeb, when the LORD said to me, 'Gather <H6950> the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.'
Deuteronomy 31:30 (NKJV)
30 Then Moses spoke in the hearing of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song until they were ended:
Deuteronomy 31:30 (KJV)
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
Here in the OT unto me Gather, or Gather unto me, plus assembly and congregation are all H6950 qāhal definitely an assembly or gathering.
Hebrew Strong's Number: 6950
Hebrew Word: קָהַל
Transliteration: qāhal
Phonetic Pronunciation: kaw-hal'
Vine's Words: Assembly
English Words used in KJV:
(gather / assemble) together 14
gather 16
assembled 9
[Total Count: 39]
a primitive root; to convoke :- assemble (selves) (together), gather (selves) (together).
from <H6950> (qahal); assemblage (usually concrete) :- assembly, company, congregation, multitude.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church <G1577>, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Greek Strong's Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
Phonetic Pronunciation:ek-klay-see'-ah
Vine's Words: Assembly, Congregation
English Words used in KJV:
church 115
assembly 3
[Total Count: 118]
from a compound of <G1537> (ek) and a derivative of <G2564> (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :- assembly, church.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
The OT H6950 included assembly, meeting
The NT G1577 includes assembly, congregation, PLUS: 'called out' Saints, on earth, in heaven or both.
Matthew 18:17 (NKJV)
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Acts 5:11 (NKJV)
So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.
Romans 16:5 (NKJV)
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2 (NKJV)
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
To the church or God, to those who sanctified, called to be saints. The church, the ekklesia, is only the called out ones, the born again from above ones.
Ephesians 1:22 (NKJV)
And He (Jesus) put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church
Jesus is Head over all things to the church. The church is the Body of Christ, this can only be born again, called out souls.
Ephesians 3:10-12 (NKJV)
to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Only the born again from above, saved believers, have the boldness and access with confidence through faith in Jesus. The saved are the Church, the ekklesia, the called out ones.
Hebrews 12:22-24 (NKJV)
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
NOTE: Here General Assembly has another meaning with only one reference in the Bible G3831
Greek Strong's Number: 3831
Greek Word: πανήγυρις
Transliteration: panēgyris
Phonetic Pronunciation: pan-ay'-goo-is
Vine's Words: Assembly
English Words used in KJV:
general assembly 1
[Total Count: 1]
from <G3956> (pas) and a derivative of <G58> (agora); a mass-meeting, i.e. (figurative) universal companionship :- general assembly.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
CHURCH remains the same ekklesia G1577, which is quoted 125 times in scripture.
It seems very clear from scripture, those listed above and all the other scripture references previous quoted that
- In the OT, H6950 Church translated, was an assembly or gathering of God's chosen people the Jews. See Deuteronomy 4:10
- In the NT, G1577 Church translated, is ekklesia, assembly, congregation, called out, is the Body of Saved believers, born again from above souls
The NT church was born at Pentecost, Christ is the Head of His Church, born again from above believers are the Body of Christ, Spiritual stones.
Hebrews 12:22-24 (NKJV)
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.
To the general assembly, Jews OT, AND, Church of the first born, which are written in The Book of Life and The Lamb.
What is the... Church?
The following I have taken from - The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery which statesstates... [In Italics]
The Bible provides a rich kaleidoscope of imagery about the church composed of around one hundred metaphors and statements.
The thread on which all other jewels are hung is the idea of the church as an ekklesia (“assembly,” “gathering”). This word, taken from common usage where it applied to the “calling out” of citizens for a civic meeting or of soldiers for battle, is used extensively throughout the Old and New Testaments to refer to the people of God (e.g., Deut 4:10; 9:10; 31:30; Mt 16:18; 18:17; Acts 5:11; Rom 16:5; 1 Cor 1:2; Eph 1:22; 3:10; Heb 12:23).
Looking at these verses and comparing the OT and the NT, there is a clear difference regarding The Church, though both refer to an assembly or congregation and to 'People of God'. To the Jews first who were God's people, whether they followed God all the time or worshipped idols at other times, the Jews were God's chosen people. To the Jews and Gentiles after Jesus' Ministry, death, resurrection and ascension, only those who are born again from above are God's people, people of God.
Looking at the references above, taken from Dictionary of Biblical Imagery for the word Church, ekklesia, OT H6950, NT G1577.
Deuteronomy 4:10 (NKJV)
10 especially concerning the day you stood before the LORD your God in Horeb, when the LORD said to me, 'Gather <H6950> the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.'
Deuteronomy 31:30 (NKJV)
30 Then Moses spoke in the hearing of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song until they were ended:
Deuteronomy 31:30 (KJV)
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.
Here in the OT unto me Gather, or Gather unto me, plus assembly and congregation are all H6950 qāhal definitely an assembly or gathering.
Hebrew Strong's Number: 6950
Hebrew Word: קָהַל
Transliteration: qāhal
Phonetic Pronunciation: kaw-hal'
Vine's Words: Assembly
English Words used in KJV:
(gather / assemble) together 14
gather 16
assembled 9
[Total Count: 39]
a primitive root; to convoke :- assemble (selves) (together), gather (selves) (together).
from <H6950> (qahal); assemblage (usually concrete) :- assembly, company, congregation, multitude.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church <G1577>, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Greek Strong's Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
Phonetic Pronunciation:ek-klay-see'-ah
Vine's Words: Assembly, Congregation
English Words used in KJV:
church 115
assembly 3
[Total Count: 118]
from a compound of <G1537> (ek) and a derivative of <G2564> (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :- assembly, church.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
The OT H6950 included assembly, meeting
The NT G1577 includes assembly, congregation, PLUS: 'called out' Saints, on earth, in heaven or both.
Matthew 18:17 (NKJV)
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Acts 5:11 (NKJV)
So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.
Romans 16:5 (NKJV)
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2 (NKJV)
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
To the church or God, to those who sanctified, called to be saints. The church, the ekklesia, is only the called out ones, the born again from above ones.
Ephesians 1:22 (NKJV)
And He (Jesus) put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church
Jesus is Head over all things to the church. The church is the Body of Christ, this can only be born again, called out souls.
Ephesians 3:10-12 (NKJV)
to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Only the born again from above, saved believers, have the boldness and access with confidence through faith in Jesus. The saved are the Church, the ekklesia, the called out ones.
Hebrews 12:22-24 (NKJV)
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
NOTE: Here General Assembly has another meaning with only one reference in the Bible G3831
Greek Strong's Number: 3831
Greek Word: πανήγυρις
Transliteration: panēgyris
Phonetic Pronunciation: pan-ay'-goo-is
Vine's Words: Assembly
English Words used in KJV:
general assembly 1
[Total Count: 1]
from <G3956> (pas) and a derivative of <G58> (agora); a mass-meeting, i.e. (figurative) universal companionship :- general assembly.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
CHURCH remains the same ekklesia G1577, which is quoted 125 times in scripture.
It seems very clear from scripture, those listed above and all the other scripture references previous quoted that
- In the OT, H6950 Church translated, was an assembly or gathering of God's chosen people the Jews. See Deuteronomy 4:10
- In the NT, G1577 Church translated, is ekklesia, assembly, congregation, called out, is the Body of Saved believers, born again from above souls
The NT church was born at Pentecost, Christ is the Head of His Church, born again from above believers are the Body of Christ, Spiritual stones.
Hebrews 12:22-24 (NKJV)
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hebrews 12:23 (KJV)
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.
To the general assembly, Jews OT, AND, Church of the first born, which are written in The Book of Life and The Lamb.
What is the... Church?
PloughBoy
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Excellent work, Brother-Paul. And make sure , you show them why The Roman Catholic Church conspired to replace the Word; congregation in the work of the 1611 "KJV" to the word "church" with King James who was not a Christian, and why He alone elected the advisory counsel and translators.
For you have done a great work on the word "church". Now put the "Cherry" on top of the cake!
For you have done a great work on the word "church". Now put the "Cherry" on top of the cake!
Brother-Paul
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Dear brother, we say the Truth is in The Word, but translations can be so misleading, even more so with key words it seems.
I have said many, many times, we need to look back at the early church, and to the true meaning of translated words, I can only pray brother, answers I have received regarding 'the church' today and the early church are so often, of course things are different today, we have modern buildings, we are a different culture, etc, etc. At times we feel like a voice crying in the wilderness.
Years ago I prayed, Lord forgive your church its errors and reveal them to your children. The RCC came up so many times, and still does my friend, as you know.
It is the errors many of us highlight and make known that should make every saved soul say, 'Am I right with God, am I right with Jesus,am I right in and with the church.' How different are things in the church, ekklesia compared to the early church? Has the place I worship inherited any of the RCC errors of the past?
I'll come back to your question after I have had my tea, (UK) but for now, I must add that I feel the issues with the church started around Constantine around 300 AD, for the same reason King James was involved around 1600, the morals in the Bible helped the state keep law and order. But the RCC kept to Latin, only preaching what they wanted the congregation to hear, they did not want the Bible printing, it undermined their preaching, it was a threat to RCC membership. Any place of worship that has it's own Bible shpuldwarnpeople and they should ask why?. RCC, JW etc etc. If they have 'their own Bible' they have it for a reason, no doubt trying to Hide The Truth!
Got to go brother, my wife is calling, 'Paul Darling'. In my dreams maybe, she wants me to help prepare the tea. LOL
Chat later ;o)
Hekuran
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If 'ekklesia' refers only to those in the body of Christ, how would the apostles or first Christians refer to the groups of people who met in Jesus' name to sing, learn, pray and eat together? presumably these groups were a mix of devout followers of Jesus, those who were not yet committed but earnestly seeking, and those whose faith would waver and fall. Does it seem odd an impractical that there's no word to describe this?
Curtis
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Jesus said concerning the parable of the "sower".
Mar 4:13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? (ESV)
The parable of the sower is the most important parable in the Bible. Miss this one you will get all the others wrong which is why Jesus explained the parable so his followers would not misunderstand its importance.
The parable of the "sower" "identifies" all of those in the regional assemblies.
Mar 4:13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? (ESV)
The parable of the sower is the most important parable in the Bible. Miss this one you will get all the others wrong which is why Jesus explained the parable so his followers would not misunderstand its importance.
The parable of the "sower" "identifies" all of those in the regional assemblies.
Brother-Paul
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I will aim to add what I am aware of PB, but I also know you are more knowledgeable than I, so ask you to add to or correct as necessary.
Parts of the following are taken from https://www.beinaberean.org others are from my own studies
King James I of England decided to authorize his own translation of the Bible in 1611. The other versions fell to the Kings disfavour because their footnotes failed to honour the King. To correct this, he gathered fifty-four scholars and gave them fifteen edicts to follow as they translated and published his Authorized Version. This is a greater concern.
The first edict was that they use the Bishop's Bible (which used "congregation") with as few changes as possible.
The third edict specified that, in select places, they were to use the word "church," and not "congregation," in place of ekklesia.
His fourteenth edict stated that they could use the Tyndale, Matthew, Coverdale, the Great Bible (also called the Whitchurch, Cranmer, and Cromwell Bible), and the Geneva versions of the Bible wherever they were closer to their accessible manuscripts.
NOTE ALSO: The King's influence is also seen where the names of the apostle and brother for Jesus were translated as "James" rather than Jacob (Iakobos)
PREV History - no wonder there became so much confusion.
John Wycliffe, of Yorkshire, England, translated the first Bible into English in 1382, not from the original languages, but from the Latin. Therein, Wycliffe translated the Latin word ecclesiam into chirche (in old English spelling):
Matthew 16:18
And Y seie to thee, that thou art Petre, and on this stoon Y schal bilde my chirche, and the yatis of helle schulen not haue miyt ayens it. (Wycliffe, c1382)
Matthew 16:18 (NKJV) - Current
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
The Latin word is similar to the Greek, but because he did not know Greek, he may have used what was commonly called a religious gathering in his day. More on this later.
Other English translations that followed were:
* Tyndale's Bible (1526) - used "congregation":
And I saye also vnto the that thou arte Peter: and apon this rocke I wyll bylde my congregacion. And the gates of hell shall not prevayle ageynst it. (Tyndale, c1526)
* Coverdale Bible (1535) - used "congregation"
* Matthew Bible (1537) - used "congregation"
* The Great Bible (1539) - used "congregation"
* Geneva Bible (1560) - used "church"
And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I will builde my Church: and ye gates of hell shall not ouercome it. (Geneva Bible, c1560)
* Bishop's Bible (1568) - used "congregation":
And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vponn this rocke I wyll buylde my congregation: And the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it. (Bishop Bible, c1568)
The word "congregation," in place of ekklesia, is a good translation since "congregation" means "to gather a flock" and refers to people, not places or institutions.
The flock being the elite, the called out ones.
Other interesting facts...
THE KING JAMES VERSION
The story gets interesting when King James I of England decided to authorize his own translation of the Bible in 1611. The other versions fell to the Kings disfavour because their footnotes failed to honour the King (James 1). To correct this, he gathered fifty-four scholars and gave them fifteen edicts to follow as they translated and published his Authorized Version. This is a greater concern.
The first edict was that they use the Bishop's Bible (which used "congregation") with as few changes as possible.
The third edict specified that, in select places, they were to use the word "church," and not "congregation," in place of ekklesia.
His fourteenth edict stated that they could use the Tyndale, Matthew, Coverdale, the Great Bible (also called the Whitchurch, Cranmer, and Cromwell Bible), and the Geneva versions of the Bible wherever they were closer to their accessible manuscripts.
The King's influence is also seen where the names of the apostle and brother for Jesus were translated as "James" rather than Jacob (Iakobos)
Why would the King be so adamant about using a word, "church", that he knew to mean circle rather than using the correct translation?
What do we know about this King?
One detail of his life that history books do not often discuss occurred before he became King James I of England—while he was James VI, King of Scotland.
"On the west wall of the lodgehall used by Lodge Scoon and Perth No. 3 in Perth, Scotland, can be found a mural depicting James VI kneeling at their altar at his initiation. The oldest existing record of the Lodge, called The Mutual Agreement" of 24 December, 1658, records that James was "entered Freemasonry as a Fellowcraft of the Lodge of Scoon" on 15 April, 1601."
On April 15, 1601, King James entered the secret society of the Freemasons. A cult! In fact, Masons credit him as being the originator of the worldwide system of lodges within present-day Freemasonry. This is the greatest concern.
His version of the Bible became, and still is, the favoured version of Freemasons.
"One of the most important symbols in Freemasonry is a circle with a dot in the center—part of their motif-the shape that is drawn by the compass.”
Throughout Europe and England, the circle was a significant occult symbol and remains so today. It connotes inclusion or influence, as does that of being surrounded. Many good symbols such as the five-pointed star and the six-pointed Star of David become the occult pentagram, pentacles, and the hexagram when encircled, and each is used with prominence in Freemasonry and Witchcraft. Does a circle surrounding these and other symbols place them under the influence of occult powers?
Adherents of the occult believe symbols have power and influence, and especially so when those carrying or connected to the symbol are not aware of it. Would the expression "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" apply to spiritual concerns too? Does ignorance of the law of gravity excuse us of its influence?
Recently, I had occasion to pray with an individual whom Jesus was calling out of a high position within the occult. During our prayers, she asked if we could use a word other than "church" as we prayed. That startled me and when I asked, her reason was that what we refer to as occult covens are referred to as churches by those within occult circles. She wanted to be clear that her prayers referred to the Body of Christ and not to occult churches/covens/circles.
Why do occult organizations such as the Church of Illumination, Church of Scientology, Church of Wicca, Church of Satan, and others embrace the word "church" in their identity? Do they better understand its true meaning and significance? Could it be that we are naive?
John 4:21-24 (NKJV)
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
This is why I have listed so much, there is so much confusion created by the RCC, by the links with Constantine from 300 AD, by King James 1 from 1600 AD, through the reformation and fragments denominations.
What is clear, and I have 'tried' to get the message over, sorry if not well enough, is exactly what I have explained, from scripture, in Posts 64, 65, 66 and post 142, best read in that order and concluding here.
The church, the ekklesia, the congregation of called out ones, is the Body of Christ, Our Lord's Church, of which every born again from above believer is part of and is the Body of Christ, it is the born anew, the new creatures, the new creations in Christ Jesus, who are His, these are the ones who 'Worship in Spirit and Truth.
Unsaved souls cannot worship in Spirit and Truth, The Word is Folly to them and they have not received the Holy Spirit of Christ, they are still in sin and the devil is the father of all unsaved souls, whether they go to and join a congregation of believers or not. Only the Saved souls are the spiritual body of Christ, Only our Lord is or could ever be the Head of His Church, the ekklesia.
Shalom
Brother-Paul
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Romans 8:31-39 (NKJV)
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We are over comers, we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus our Lord
Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, In Jesus Precious Name, Amen
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We are over comers, we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus our Lord
Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, In Jesus Precious Name, Amen
Brother-Paul
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There are arguments both ways brother, the truth is that so many people have had their finger in the pie over the years, calling a church building was RCC that has caused lots of confusion, but one thing is clear from the 125 verses the translation comes from in the NT, they all say the same, church, ekklesia, called out. Whether we look at a congregation, call it a church or an assembly doesn't matter, I guess, what matters is they are a church, ekklesia, assembly, a congregation of called out souls. Only the saved souls can be the Body of Christ, His church, which in Matthew He says is 'My Church'
The assembly of Jews in the OT, Deuteronomy, was an assembly of God's people the Jews.
The Church, ekklesia, congregation of called out one's in NT, are the born again from above souls. God's chosen people, God's called ones.
We worship in spirit and truth, God's children worship in spirit and truth, those who are not saved cannot worship in spirit and truth, they do not have the Spirit and do not understand the Truth.
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It is not what I call them brother, or what you call them, it is what scripture tells us, everything I have shared on here has come from scripture.
If God is not your Father the devil is.
Hekuran
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Scripture uses the word ekklesia to describe the meeting.
Brother-Paul
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Brother-Paul
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The church the ekklesia was born at Pentecost, those who received the Holy Spirit are the church, the ekklesia, the born again, the called out ones
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Here is the "perfect" example of the Church.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
There are no unsaved here.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
There are no unsaved here.
Brother-Paul
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Greeting brother Curtis,
I totally agree, but what is also clear here is verse 23. The general assembly AND the Church.
In Deut we saw the assembly of Jews, who were God's chosen people. Then in NT we have the church, born at Pentecost, the ekklesia, those called out, who belong to Jesus and His Church.
The Jews didn't need calling out, they were already God's people, Jesus emphasised 'we MUST BE Born Again'. The church, the ekklesia, is what Jesus said in Matthew 'MY Church' it is made up of those God calls, those who repent and accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. He said, I know my sheep and my sheep know me.
Strongs Word Dictionary, is very clear and very consistent in the translation, the church in the NT is the ekklesia, the congregation of called out ones.
Bless you brother
I totally agree, but what is also clear here is verse 23. The general assembly AND the Church.
In Deut we saw the assembly of Jews, who were God's chosen people. Then in NT we have the church, born at Pentecost, the ekklesia, those called out, who belong to Jesus and His Church.
The Jews didn't need calling out, they were already God's people, Jesus emphasised 'we MUST BE Born Again'. The church, the ekklesia, is what Jesus said in Matthew 'MY Church' it is made up of those God calls, those who repent and accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. He said, I know my sheep and my sheep know me.
Strongs Word Dictionary, is very clear and very consistent in the translation, the church in the NT is the ekklesia, the congregation of called out ones.
Bless you brother
Brother-Paul
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Brother-Paul
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The assembly of Jews in the OT, Deuteronomy, was an assembly of God's people the Jews.
The Church, ekklesia, congregation of called out one's in NT, are the born again from above souls. God's chosen people, God's called ones.
In both cases they are God's people.
Those who are not born again, will not see the kingdom of heaven, not here on earth or thereafter.
Lord's prayer, Thine Kingdom come, Thy will be done, ON earth AS IT IS IN heaven.
You should not be surprised when we say you must be born again, Jesus told us so. If a person is not born again, not saved, they are unsaved. God is not their father, the devil is. Jesus's own words.
