What Is the Difference Between Pentecostal & Charismatics?
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JesusIs4Me
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Not sure how you cannot be wary when a believer falls backwards and do convulsions. That is hardly an emotional response. That is an example of loss of self control which temperance is a fruit of the Spirit. So how can someone claiming to be being filled with the Spirit apart from salvation experience a loss of self control? If you do not see anything wrong with that picture.... then I reckon you will continue to not see why someone would recommend a psychiatrist to such a person; or for that matter, an exorcist, or even reasonably, calling an ambulance. Grand Maltese.. think God would mimic that? How can falling backwards not be seen as confusion which God is not the author of? 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV
How many Catholics are in the world? Should numbers or might makes right? Yet, Jesus described the latter days as what? False prophets coming into the churches ( Matthew 7:13-17 KJV ) where many become workers of iniquity regardless of the miracles by them as Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23 KJV One outward appearance of evil Jesus has given to those who do not heed His words is they will fall; so how can that not apply to those believers that fall backwards?
The iniquity is the focus on what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming in worship or wanting Him to come and fill them when the indwelling Holy Ghost will ALWAYS point to the Son in worship. It is the spirits of the antichrist that would like to share in the spotlight with the Son to even take that spotlight from the Son in being the sole focus so they would be sought after to receive after a sign.
You speak of benefit, but tongues for private use and thus never interpreted cannot be understood for it to be fruitful to the tongue speaker for why Paul prayed that someone else would interpret it so he would understand it and be fruitful to himself.
What is worse is that tongue speakers continue to ignore that God is not the author of confusion; if His gift of tongues was prophesied to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people, then how can it be turned around for private use? And even for private use, it is confusing because some say it is for self edification while another says it is the Holy Spirit praying, and neither one can prove what the "Holy Spirit" is doing when it comes with no interpretation; hence confusion.
I have been ignorant in a lot of things in my life; ignoring that which should be a red flag, but I went along with it as business as usual... much to my regret. I rely on Him to keep me from falling and to present me faultless to His glory. As it is, many tongue speakers are ignoring the truth in His words in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for Himself in uttering His own intercessions. That truth is maintained in all Bible versions but it is ignored because modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 implies otherwise but the KJV does not when even His groanings cannot be uttered.
No good tree can produce a bad fruit and no evil tree can produce a good fruit; therefore understand why I am blasting away that extra as departing from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils because there has been a supernatural tongue in the world that is just gibberish nonsense before God's gift of tongues came at Pentecost which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people. We are called to test the spirits ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) and the tongues they bring. ( 1 John 4:5-6 & Isaiah 8:19 )
Jesus said many will be going astray and the solution is back to the straight gate; Jesus as all eyes should be on Him anyway since the Bridegroom is coming soon. That means no time out for focus on the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit would always point you to the Son in living that reconciled relationship with God the father through.
But many believers do not want to believe that what they have which is special to them that separates them from the norm of the body of Christ is actually not of Him at all. That extra is not BY the preaching of Jesus Christ & Him crucified but for already saved believers to seek a filling and a sign by that filling which is after the rudiment of the world in the occult. An adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but Jesus is calling Pentecostals/Charismatics to return to their first love to avoid being the foolish virgins out in the market seeking to be filled when the prudent ones know they have been filled and ready to go when the Bridegroom comes.
Dave M
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you know this was exactly what happened at Brownsville revival, one guy acted as if he was drunk, a girl could not stop twitching having spasms , and many people rolled on the floor in laughter, it was total confusion in there from what I saw on videos.
Now I am not doubting any of these people love for Christ nor am I judging them,
But I have to look at scripture and see that God is a God of order, and God tells us to be sober minded, behave decently, and I have to wonder if there actions line up with scripture? I
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1 Corinthians 14:40
But all things should be done decently and in order.
JesusIs4Me
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Their actions obviously do not line up with scripture which is why believers are not to believe every spirit but test them.
The point Jesus is making about how a good tree will not bring an evil fruit and an evil tree will not bring a good fruit is that by whatever method or means for which confusion comes, then you should check & discern that you are not doing the same thing for which you deem as "good". If it is the same thing; then it is not of Him at all, and you need to pray to Jesus Christ normally to see why that which you deem "good" that came from that tree that gave evil fruit, is evil, because it is.
Do they not call on the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them?
Do they not claim feeling the Holy Spirit infilling them for why they lost self control?
Do not some that got tongues for private use fell in the same manner?
Ask Jesus to bring in remembrance of those things you have overlooked around you in those times you experience that which you believe was of Him. Ask Him for help because it was prophesied that many will depart from faith in giving heed to "seducing spirits" and doctrines of devils and so even feel good experience has to be discerned.
Antichrist means instead of Christ or instead of the Son. Since the indwelling Holy Spirit will always points us to the Son, then the spirit of the antichrist would be pointing believers to themselves in seeking after them for a sign.
Dovegiven
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Due to an unfortunate event resulting in online threats and obliteration of my favorite Christian chat site, caused by my criticism of religion's doctrine online, I never give location information. I will confirm I am of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Tristan W
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Sir, thank you for your questions, in explaining a point of view. I see it as a humble approach in discussing scripture.
I am constantly asking questions before I set my mind and even then who am I to judge. I am not absolutely knowledgeable and therefore if I am wrong so be it I ask the Lord to show me His path.
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
Dave M
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Dovegiven
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I realize most American Christians are not acquainted with biblical casting out of demons, which is authorized and demonstrated by Jesus often for his disciples, of which I am one. There are some really curious descriptions of that in the Bible. So were the Roman guards at Jesus' tomb, uncharacteristically falling back at the angel
A church is apparently quite free to tolerate demons on and in people, keeping them around, taking a path of least resistance lest we face a long line at the restaurant. After all, many Christians don't believe in them, or a literal Devil (Satan) for that matter. "That's the red guy with a forke It does sometimes require of believers much prayer, fasting, and strong faith. Those are the main reasons many people just don't want to get into that, as the experiences can upset the plans to have a wonderful choir and symphony orchestra, leaving time for the quarter and solo. I understand keeping folks comfortable. Demons coming out can be quite upsetting to witnesses. That was a common occurrence at Brownsville, and goes on in congregations that dare practice teachings of Jesus. Please nobody tell me there are no instructions Jesus taught that modern Christians would refuse to do, and if they attempted would excuse themselves from exercising effective faith by condition of "If it be thy will Lord, please heal Sister Jones." Well, that's a sign of people who have yet to learn God's will. That's a wasted prayer. Nowhere are we instructed it is God's will that sickness should be tolerated for the purpose of pleasing God. Before attacking that please be aware I'm ready to carry that where I know most don't like going.
Matthew 28:1-4 (KJV)
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
There are numerous examples of most of the Brownsville event happenings recorded in the Bible, many in the old Testament. Peter fell into a trance in Acts 10. Paul fell off his horse onto the ground blind in Acts 9, and John fell as dead in Rev. 1, and fell down worshiping, as did many throughout scriptures.
Matthew 17:4-8 (KJV)
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Good advice from a friend of Job:
Job 8:20-21 (KJV)
20 Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
21 Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
Oops, pardon me? "That's old testament, we don't laugh here unless the preacher tells a joke." is similar to what I hear from degrees of unbelievers. Unbelievers can be helped. I am not saying they are disbelievers who refuse to laugh in the Spirit with our God who loves to laugh, in a church service, or sing with soul and body shaking rejoicing. All can at least mutter words by following the hymnal or overhead screen, which is typical of many denominations. When on the platform it's very rare to see rejoicing on faces, but not in a spirit filled meeting. There is more, much more than millions of Christians miss until in Heaven, there realizing what they could have been experiencing all along.
I realize any simblance of charismatic worship would probably cost a Baptist preacher his license to preach, but the experience of being in the powerful presence of God is well worth it. I will never again be too fearful or ashamed like in those days past to let my body be subject to the wonderful and frequent effects of the Holy Spirit light flooding me. No healthy person walks about 24/7 trembling and quaking, but a spiritual man ought to let that happen whenever the Lord lets it.
You are all already invited to enter the throne room boldly, so try it.
Hebrews 12:21-26 (KJV)
21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Touch His mountain. Many did in Brownville and all over America, folks still mightily blessed from it.
Hebrews 4:16 (KJV)
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
That means come in face forward, not backing in with excuses. You disciples of Christ are sons of the living God, so take the limits off and live free. If you truth there will be agreement. If this sours, then go read the Bible, grade yourself for what commandments of Jesus you really are willing to do. None of those passed away with the last apostle as disbelievers teach.
A church is apparently quite free to tolerate demons on and in people, keeping them around, taking a path of least resistance lest we face a long line at the restaurant. After all, many Christians don't believe in them, or a literal Devil (Satan) for that matter. "That's the red guy with a forke It does sometimes require of believers much prayer, fasting, and strong faith. Those are the main reasons many people just don't want to get into that, as the experiences can upset the plans to have a wonderful choir and symphony orchestra, leaving time for the quarter and solo. I understand keeping folks comfortable. Demons coming out can be quite upsetting to witnesses. That was a common occurrence at Brownsville, and goes on in congregations that dare practice teachings of Jesus. Please nobody tell me there are no instructions Jesus taught that modern Christians would refuse to do, and if they attempted would excuse themselves from exercising effective faith by condition of "If it be thy will Lord, please heal Sister Jones." Well, that's a sign of people who have yet to learn God's will. That's a wasted prayer. Nowhere are we instructed it is God's will that sickness should be tolerated for the purpose of pleasing God. Before attacking that please be aware I'm ready to carry that where I know most don't like going.
Matthew 28:1-4 (KJV)
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
There are numerous examples of most of the Brownsville event happenings recorded in the Bible, many in the old Testament. Peter fell into a trance in Acts 10. Paul fell off his horse onto the ground blind in Acts 9, and John fell as dead in Rev. 1, and fell down worshiping, as did many throughout scriptures.
Matthew 17:4-8 (KJV)
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Good advice from a friend of Job:
Job 8:20-21 (KJV)
20 Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
21 Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
Oops, pardon me? "That's old testament, we don't laugh here unless the preacher tells a joke." is similar to what I hear from degrees of unbelievers. Unbelievers can be helped. I am not saying they are disbelievers who refuse to laugh in the Spirit with our God who loves to laugh, in a church service, or sing with soul and body shaking rejoicing. All can at least mutter words by following the hymnal or overhead screen, which is typical of many denominations. When on the platform it's very rare to see rejoicing on faces, but not in a spirit filled meeting. There is more, much more than millions of Christians miss until in Heaven, there realizing what they could have been experiencing all along.
I realize any simblance of charismatic worship would probably cost a Baptist preacher his license to preach, but the experience of being in the powerful presence of God is well worth it. I will never again be too fearful or ashamed like in those days past to let my body be subject to the wonderful and frequent effects of the Holy Spirit light flooding me. No healthy person walks about 24/7 trembling and quaking, but a spiritual man ought to let that happen whenever the Lord lets it.
You are all already invited to enter the throne room boldly, so try it.
Hebrews 12:21-26 (KJV)
21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Touch His mountain. Many did in Brownville and all over America, folks still mightily blessed from it.
Hebrews 4:16 (KJV)
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
That means come in face forward, not backing in with excuses. You disciples of Christ are sons of the living God, so take the limits off and live free. If you truth there will be agreement. If this sours, then go read the Bible, grade yourself for what commandments of Jesus you really are willing to do. None of those passed away with the last apostle as disbelievers teach.
Dovegiven
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Attending a Creflo Dollar church meeting would expose you to some activities like that video, not shown on the TV segments that cover maybe 10% of the whole. People of every color show up to get their healing there and others like that, in so doing get filled with the Spirit after being saved and baptized since probably childhood, devoted to their churches, loving Jesus, but just not able to find an atmosphere of faith on their own. Miracles happen when that man of God speaks, or any of the other pastors there. Tears will flow like you never experienced. It would be odd to come away not revived and freshly empowered to go lay hands on the sick.
It would take me a lot of time to explain what that young black man from Birmingham was experiencing, reliving a recent spiritual high. That is simply what you saw but of course, if not "been there", couldn't begin to answer the OP question.
This thread is still like asking a squirrel why a zebra has stripes, taken to asking a Colorado cow what the difference is between a zebra and a horse. The cow might have seen a horse, but not likely a zebra.
It would take me a lot of time to explain what that young black man from Birmingham was experiencing, reliving a recent spiritual high. That is simply what you saw but of course, if not "been there", couldn't begin to answer the OP question.
This thread is still like asking a squirrel why a zebra has stripes, taken to asking a Colorado cow what the difference is between a zebra and a horse. The cow might have seen a horse, but not likely a zebra.
Dovegiven
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God allows the emotional, the fantastic, the unexpected like the shaking of the mountain for Moses and Israel. He can make elite soldiers fall to their faces. before Him or an angel. That Roman guard would have been among Rome's special forces assigned to protect Pilate, intended to be ultimately trustworthy. Yield to God, neighbors. Pride marches before destruction.
amadeus2
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Praise the Lord, indeed!
Dovegiven
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Among pentecostals, when the Spirit moves and touches like the guards of Jesus' tomb were "slain" fallen back, disabled), knocked senseless, it's all decent and in order, without confusion. If God didn't authorize unusual behavior like that, then why did those soldiers do somethng they should have been executed for? Most if not many Christians are practically emotionless in services, so of course any excitement would be upsetting. We went to a local Baptist revival to hear a visiting TV preacher. He said something surprising good, that met with a man shouting AMEN twice. The ushers guided him out. In our church the whole congregation would have shouted AMEN.
amadeus2
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Yes, there is often a judgment made against people who yield to instead of quenching the Holy Spirit. I am a "visitor" meaning I like to visit different churches regularly. Some of them are too dead for me to allow the Spirit to flow freely. At age 75 I still shout and raise my hands to praise the Lord. Less often these days do I run or dance as David danced, but still it does happen. The old flesh won't go for long as my lungs fail me and I have to breathe, but sometimes God gives me some of that youthful strength of former days... even if only for a few minutes.
Give God the glory!
Dovegiven
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I'll invite anyone I have time with to visit our church, usually offering to pick them up. Many of those are former church goers who just fell off going for many usually bad excuses. We find many of different denominations. That way I can sit with them and explain anything "out of the ordinary". Actually, the average service would not alarm any Baptist. The Holy Spirit knows who is present, waiting for men like you to be there. I'm 2 years behind you, and have yet to hear of a single complaint from anyone experiencing a display of the gifts of the Spirit. Those usually spark inquiries, lingering, returning for another "dose". We get folks from churches that don't expect healing, grown up believing what they were taught by their denominational doctrines, usually that God might want you to suffer cancer to teach you a lesson, make you more spiritual from it, contrary to
Luke 11:4-13 (KJV)
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;
6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?
7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.
8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Why would God give cancer to someone looking to Him for healing?
When cancer strikes, it is understandably more difficult to be "more spiritual" through that. The most obvious tendency of folks under siege of their health is to not want to return to church at all. It's then that Baptists and others not familiar with the scriptures for blessings in Christ will take up their phone to ask for help from pentecostals/charismatics. When hope returns, some will try a spirit-filled meeting. Where does the hope come from for long-time church goers devoid of real hope? From someone telling them it is not at all God's will for any to suffer like that. What He loves is His children being persecuted because of their testimony of Christ in them.
Brother, walk daily at least around your house. Increase your goal a block a week, breathing deeply every step, stopping to rest ever so far as necessary. At our age it is even more vital to eat the Med diet, using wisdom, as it becomes harder to digest nutrients. I have done that, beat that. Keep your D3 up so you can absorb calcium, keeping bones strong. Eat calcium foods before magnesium foods. I made the error of saying many times beginning in 2007 that I was retired. That was a command to my body I regretted later, as it went into retirement. The wisdom from God brought me back out of what I named "retirement syndrome".
amadeus2
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I love to let the Holy Spirit lead me and everyone else present. This is really, as I believe it, where and when 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, He is right there in their midst. We need to understand what is meant by being "In His Name". Give God the glory!
Within the last five years we have a good friend in the Lord who had miracles in her body because of cancer. The first time she had a traffic accident with only minor injuries, but one of them was to her head so they scanned her head, discovering a large tumor in her brain. Because of the location they were unable to tell if it was cancerous without surgery. The surgery was needed even if it was benign because of its size and location. She had had some symptoms from it prior to the car accident but had not y et been to a doctor about them.
They performed surgery and removed the tumor which indeed was cancerous. All of the follow ups were negative. The tumor was not coming back. But then about 2 years ago the scans showed the tumor was back and approximately the same size it had been the first time. She was of course quite upset as was her family.
Again they prepared her for brain surgery. Of course during all of this time prior to the first surgery and afterward people were praying for her healing. As she was being scanned one final time for detailed information prior to the second surgery, a ministering brother, with a long history of praying for the illnesses of people and having God heal them, was traveling back to his home in southern Oklahoma. As he was driving the Lord spoke him telling him to pray for this sister, who he had known for a long time. He stopped the car and prayed. Only later did he understand what God had done.
In that final scan of her brain after that brother's prayer but before any second surgery they were unable to locate the tumor. It was there on several previous X-rays but all of a sudden it simply was not there. They knew that since the first tumor in the same location was cancerous this one almost certainly would have been as well. But, they have never cut on her again. Despite repeated X-rays and brain scans the tumor could not be seen. It has never come back...
Give God the glory!
My wife has just started us on the Mediterranean diet beginning this month. We are also looking into joining a local exercise club. If we cannot afford it I'll have to start with the more walking where I can. I've done that in the past, but the changeable weather has been a problem. Thank you for you consideration.
Dovegiven
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Every time a prayer is answered by God it is time to stop and praise Him. Hallelujah! Are we surprised? I will not be surprised, as that is characteristic of God in Jesus' name. Many Christians were "in Jesus' name" simultaneously miles and hours apart. Those prayers were poured from vials into His mercy bowl for Him to savor. Our God loves for us to appreciate every manifestation of His power by way of belief that which is believed for shall come to pass. That inspires more people to be faithful to do His will a day at a time, whatsoever we hear from Him.
We have a Planet Fitness that's $10 a month, plus an annual fee for equipment replacement, I think about $35. Most everyone is about our age, the gym full of Silver Sneakers folks. They keep a coach on staff days who helps plan around goals, included in the fee. I avoid repetitive machines that can damage joints, doing light resistance weight training instead. The Med diet is actually easier to prepare than most ways of eating, takes a lot less time. The main thing to avoid is sugar, and high glycemic index foods and reduce high glycemic load foods. I didn't give up walking alternate days not at the gym, except days I have to walk a lot on a project. A major goal is not to sit a lot. I have to do more of that than I want, using the computer for hours at a time designing, then an hour or two on chat. Walking is probably the very best exercise, very natural for the body. Swing those arms and be brisk too. I carry a 10 pound 5' slate bar, stabbing the air as I walk.
I do intermittent fasting when gaining weight from a holiday, by skipping 2 breakfast meals, for an 18 hour fast. All that keeps my glucose average, triglycerides and cholesterol levels low normal, and body mass index good. It does take some work to keep these temples of the Holy Spirit fit for use.
amadeus2
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Always praising is of course the very best way... and then too:
"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Col 3:17
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