What Is the Difference Between Pentecostal & Charismatics?

[Dovegiven]

It seems I should bring the original post to my own conclusion of difference.

Pentecostal congregations obviously assume anyone attending realizes there might be some Mark 16 signs involved, so should not be surprised or offended about that. They also support doctrinal positions that are well known to conflict with some evangelical positions, all backed by various interpretations of scripture. Otherwise it would be like a Democrat being surprised that a Trump rally would display conservative ideology. Pentecostals are "sold" on Acts 2 and beyond, with no end to the spiritual gifts, often actually requiring the performance of one or more as evidence of salvation. That position opened the door meant for evangelicals, catholics, and others to enter their "Destiny Door", a biblical precept made more popular by the current pastor John Gray. Jesus is holding your next door open, with your name on the reservation plate, for whenever you answer the call. Nobody else can enter but you. That door is behind Satan, the one Jesus wants us to rush upon and through, overcoming him to reach our intended assignment.

Charismatic congregations are usually composed of Christians of multiple denominational backgrounds, people seeking freshness, whether spiritual gifts displayed, or simply energetic preaching and discipleship, or "high praise" forbidden where they formerly attended, where hands raised in worship is forbidden or not encouraged, etc.. When God displays inwardly it is often awkward to conceal the experience, in public or otherwise. There are many reasons for Christians looking around for a more dynamic experience than previously seen, open to active service of some kind already claimed by the status quo. Deacon to me: "Sir, we already have plenty of licensed ministers, so uncalled for comments are not necessary." I've had so many people tell me they were looking to be more than a "bench warmer", wanting to be used for the Lord, but there are no openings where they formerly attended. Unfortunately, many denominational assemblies require formal training to be equipped to serve in the Church Offices listed in Ephesian 4, when certain Christians know they are anointed by God to perform those tasks wherever they are assigned to perform an anointing. The Charismatic Movement sought to heal those disparities, and continue to do that. Openings to service are created rather than kept closed to a special few. who have done it all for the past 30 years. One has only to review the statistics created, such as salvations and baptisms that result.

There are more issues, but those are probably the major ones. It is mostly an effort to stop creation of denominations, end the splits, and attempt to rejoin brethren to common causes under whatever label folks can live with beyond "Christian".

 

[Dovegiven]

Lastly, charismatic congregations have come to a belief that anointing ought not be quenched by demoninational protectionism. Each demonination has its own standard, a set of emphasized doctrines, interpretations of scriptures, rules for living, limitations on living, modes of congregational worship. It can take a new Christian many years to qualify, to learn all that, to serve with approval, often requiring licensing by an association standard. Once licensed, it is possible to be forbidden to minister outside one's denomination without written approval. That was my main issue with the SBC, and it's emerging again with the AOG, but never among charismatics. Charismatics are very open to religious backgrounds, adhering to literal interpretation of the Bible. If the Bible tells it, it is valid today. Pentecostals are pentecostals, a variety of a few denominations with denominational protectionism similar to evangelicals and other mainline denominations and the protestant congregations, each of which emphasize a particular purpose.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

here is a interesting video

I stopped at 6:44 in the video in getting the gist of it. That shaking is one evidence that it is NOT the Holy Ghost because the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets as God is not the author of confusion but of peace in all the churches; not some of them, but all of them. 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV Can she say she was filled with the Holy Spirit when the fruit of temperance is self control? She could say that but her body says otherwise, right?

Anytime anyone give tribute to a change in their lives to a manifestation that they believe was the Holy Ghost, is not talking about Jesus Christ, but to a phenomenon to make that change of one's mind. In the early history of the Penetcostal church, they would give an incident of a great revival of making converts of drunkards from wine to being drunk on the Lord. It was reported that when recipients stopped having those phenomenon, they went back to alcohol. I recall a revival where recipients were stoners or drugs users as they "believed" as their exclamation was that they were getting high on the Lord. I do not know if they went back to their drug habit when the phenomenon no longer visits them to give them their high.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.........6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The important thing is to discern what she is preaching and where she is preaching Christians to go to in having; the Holy Spirit... to receive a manifestation. That is NOT preaching the Lord Jesus Christ at all. She is pointing to a marked difference in her life because of experiencing a phenomenon; not because she was convicted by the Word. So will she go back to her worldly ways when that phenomenon stops manifesting on her? Will she be given a guilt trip by the devil for lack of manifestation into thinking God was done with her and she will not be forgiven and so she is convinced she might as well live it up? I do not know. I see the trend, but His word has led me to discern that she has gone astray supernaturally rather than worldly now.

 

[Dovegiven]

I stopped at 6:44 in the video in getting the gist of it. That shaking is one evidence that it is NOT the Holy Ghost because the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets as God is not the author of confusion but of peace in all the churches; not some of them, but all of them. 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV Can she say she was filled with the Holy Spirit when the fruit of temperance is self control? She could say that but her body says otherwise, right?

Anytime anyone give tribute to a change in their lives to a manifestation that they believe was the Holy Ghost, is not talking about Jesus Christ, but to a phenomenon to make that change of one's mind. In the early history of the Penetcostal church, they would give an incident of a great revival of making converts of drunkards from wine to being drunk on the Lord. It was reported that when recipients stopped having those phenomenon, they went back to alcohol. I recall a revival where recipients were stoners or drugs users as they "believed" as their exclamation was that they were getting high on the Lord. I do not know if they went back to their drug habit when the phenomenon no longer visits them to give them their high.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.........6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The important thing is to discern what she is preaching and where she is preaching Christians to go to in having; the Holy Spirit... to receive a manifestation. That is NOT preaching the Lord Jesus Christ at all. She is pointing to a marked difference in her life because of experiencing a phenomenon; not because she was convicted by the Word. So will she go back to her worldly ways when that phenomenon stops manifesting on her? Will she be given a guilt trip by the devil for lack of manifestation into thinking God was done with her and she will not be forgiven and so she is convinced she might as well live it up? I do not know. I see the trend, but His word has led me to discern that she has gone astray supernaturally rather than worldly now.

It's unfortunate you didn't watch the rest of it, but would prefer to speculate about the young woman. I have heard preachers speculate that the Prodigal Son returned to the hog pen once fattened and warmed. The word "revival" among Christians indicates a meeting aimed at giving Christians an opportunity to get back to truth, no more faking, no more games. Jesus and the milk of the word is not always required to disciple Christians. The Holy Spirit is our present Spirit, guide, and power, sent by Jesus in His stead, while Jesus is in Heaven.

Too many are still on the milk of the Word, ought to be teachers of the meat of the scriptures. When the Lord catches up to a wayward Christian it can be a powerful experience, and it should be. The whole Church today needs a powerful touch from the Holy Spirit like the 120 did in the upper room. I would not teach they had some experience from Satan, but that experience, not practiced, not expected, was of God resulting in a massive salvation of 3000 Jews, and a growing wave of truth. So what might have been devilish about those tongues? And if tongues were so instrumental then and there, why not for disbelivers and unbelievers today, for whom tongues is a sign to them? Prophecy is meant to be a sign to believers, so why present prophecy to the lost folks?

When those people switch to a campaign for Christ, to reach many lost people, you won't see "in house" manifestations that might cause confusion among the unbelievers. Many of those Christains were Baptists who supported Billy Graham. But few came away confused from Brownsville. The MEDIA and Youtube users spread the half truths. What was witnessed there had it's place and time in truth.

There is a common "mental" assent to Jesus that can't save, with people bowing to Him who can pass through a lifetime never touched, or known by, the Lord, though doing many good works in His name. Some are barely saved as though by fire, are hooked on the milk of the word, unable to chew the meat. It's a sad thing to see a Christian man who needs his mustache parted to insert the milk bottle.

If the Holy Spirit and angels could shake a jail to open prison doors, or cause Roman elite soldiers to shake and fall and become as dead men, might God also repeat such effects upon people tapped on the shoulder by God? Those sitting in a pew with a plaque on it in their name as a major donor seem to be oblivious to spiritual touches.

Have you ever sat on a concrete bench with prisoners behind a closed cell door, to witness to them? I've held many powerful men who shook out of control upon meeting Jesus. I could not count the drug addicts experiencing the same things. Some are preachers now with their own churches and ministries, and yes, some went back into their troubles, having walked out of the realm of helps. Have you volunteered at a hospital to comfort families in surgery waiting rooms? I have watched non-Christians and Christians shake, some deciding to commit to Jesus. Such shaking can be embarrassing to the shaker later, especially when seeing themselves on video, but later helps them shed tears and shake for another sufferer like they were. They do remember what it felt like to be overcomes in the arms of the Lord through the Holy Spirit.

I hope you don't experience judgment for assuming a shaking person with Parkinson's was of the devil when experiencing a healing from God in a church or a revival. Avoid that, even if you can't believe God allows such behavior. Just look away and stay away from His works like that. The college aged woman in that video "fell back" under that power, motionless as though dead, like those soldiers did at Jesus' tomb.

I'm not going to try "selling" you on this, but will warn you out of love. You are accountable for what you SAY about such things if your words interfere with God. Many thousands of Christians attended that revival. I don't believe Satan deceived them, but uses ignorance of old revivals to confuse the ignorant. God also is quite capable of blinding the eyes of people doing great harm to the Church, like Jesus did to Saul (Paul). I will not teach Paul had his basis of conversion based on a satanic experience. I will not support speculation that he simply fell off his horse, hit his head, damaging his brain, to end up with a TIA stroke, blind for a time. The world loves such guesswork.

I still shout Hallelujah, wag my head, dance a few steps, fall to my knees, when a major truth is revealed to the congregation, "taken over" by a move of the Spirit providing that, singing or praying in tongues, oblivious to those around us. It just doesn't matter what someone might judge me over. That's why we no longer attend So. Baptist meetings, even though overall you don't see their names in the newspaper Police Report. They tend to sit motionless. I understand, for I was among them sitting motionless, emotionless, with dry eyes trying to act super-spiritual, in total control of my body. The preacher has to ask for an Amen. It's that superficial, out of sync "SELF CONTROL" that God doesn't appreciate. It's religion denying the power thereof.

I close with honesty towards the Lord, forgiving, praying for any who are troubled with scenes of Christian events presented through eyes of unbelievers. When someone says they had a "heart wrenching" experience, it's definitely hard to empathize with that unless you've had the same experience.

 

[Dovegiven]

A major difference between Pentecostal and Charismatic is that Pentecostals usually name their church after "Pentecostal", thereby alerting people they are a denomination devoted to the message of Pentecost in Acts, and have common characteristics with most other Pentecostal congregations. The differences are mostly from minor splits in theology, liturgical rules, and practice of cogregants.

A Charismatic congregation doesn't usually identify with "petecostal" exclusively. That is inclusive. A typical church name is "Community for Christ" or some variation. A proper Pentecostal might not even enter a home where alcohol or TV is present. They will not tolerate a homeowner's personal ideas long enough to explain where their error is. A woman's choice of dress might separate her from that congregation. But a Charismatic member is more likely to have no trouble at all helping a drug addicted single mother who uses curse words to extreme, lives in a roach infested home, who will take advantage of helps as long as possible. Charismatics, full of the Holy Ghost, and staying freshly filled up with power of the Holy Spirit, will staff the jail and prison chapel hours. They are the ones delivering hot meals to the homeless in dark hours of night while the "righteous" are retired past sundown. Again, I understand, for the training leads them there.

Avoid being guided by men's opinions. After all, the girl in the video was not called a "prophet", but had been serving as an "intercessor", willing to put her fragile life in the path of satanic rule. Being a "prayer warrior" in the arms of sinners has a trauma only healed by God, far beyond her own control.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

It's unfortunate you didn't watch the rest of it, but would prefer to speculate about the young woman. I have heard preachers speculate that the Prodigal Son returned to the hog pen once fattened and warmed. The word "revival" among Christians indicates a meeting aimed at giving Christians an opportunity to get back to truth, no more faking, no more games. Jesus and the milk of the word is not always required to disciple Christians. The Holy Spirit is our present Spirit, guide, and power, sent by Jesus in His stead, while Jesus is in Heaven.

Key word is present as in always abiding in us so that if any believer feels a spirit coming over them or filling them, they know that is NOT the Holy Spirit when He dwells in us since our salvation. You remove that line of discernment of 1 John 4:4, then you can never test the spirits but believe every spirit that comes over you.

Too many are still on the milk of the Word, ought to be teachers of the meat of the scriptures. When the Lord catches up to a wayward Christian it can be a powerful experience, and it should be. The whole Church today needs a powerful touch from the Holy Spirit like the 120 did in the upper room. I would not teach they had some experience from Satan, but that experience, not practiced, not expected, was of God resulting in a massive salvation of 3000 Jews, and a growing wave of truth. So what might have been devilish about those tongues? And if tongues were so instrumental then and there, why not for disbelivers and unbelievers today, for whom tongues is a sign to them? Prophecy is meant to be a sign to believers, so why present prophecy to the lost folks?

When ecstatic tongues existed before Pentecost and we are not to speak as the world speak nor run the way the world runs after spirits in receiving them after a sign, then for us to abstain from all appearances of evil requires us to prove tongues and not just the spirits. 1 John 4:5-6 KJV

When those people switch to a campaign for Christ, to reach many lost people, you won't see "in house" manifestations that might cause confusion among the unbelievers. Many of those Christains were Baptists who supported Billy Graham. But few came away confused from Brownsville. The MEDIA and Youtube users spread the half truths. What was witnessed there had it's place and time in truth.

There is a common "mental" assent to Jesus that can't save, with people bowing to Him who can pass through a lifetime never touched, or known by, the Lord, though doing many good works in His name. Some are barely saved as though by fire, are hooked on the milk of the word, unable to chew the meat. It's a sad thing to see a Christian man who needs his mustache parted to insert the milk bottle.

If the Holy Spirit and angels could shake a jail to open prison doors, or cause Roman elite soldiers to shake and fall and become as dead men, might God also repeat such effects upon people tapped on the shoulder by God? Those sitting in a pew with a plaque on it in their name as a major donor seem to be oblivious to spiritual touches.

It is not a switch to a campaign for Christ but a switch from preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified to preaching another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh; that is the iniquity here.

Have you ever sat on a concrete bench with prisoners behind a closed cell door, to witness to them? I've held many powerful men who shook out of control upon meeting Jesus. I could not count the drug addicts experiencing the same things. Some are preachers now with their own churches and ministries, and yes, some went back into their troubles, having walked out of the realm of helps. Have you volunteered at a hospital to comfort families in surgery waiting rooms? I have watched non-Christians and Christians shake, some deciding to commit to Jesus. Such shaking can be embarrassing to the shaker later, especially when seeing themselves on video, but later helps them shed tears and shake for another sufferer like they were. They do remember what it felt like to be overcomes in the arms of the Lord through the Holy Spirit.

I hope you don't experience judgment for assuming a shaking person with Parkinson's was of the devil when experiencing a healing from God in a church or a revival. Avoid that, even if you can't believe God allows such behavior. Just look away and stay away from His works like that. The college aged woman in that video "fell back" under that power, motionless as though dead, like those soldiers did at Jesus' tomb.

Problem is... God would never give that appearane of evil for any one to wonder if there wasn't anything medically wrong with such a person. If someone fell backwards and had body parts twitching, it is amazing how nobody is alarmed that the person may be experiencing a grand maltese and calling 911, That said, is why God would not be the author of confusion on such a person nor giving such appearance of confusion to any one else. That is what that young girl get for going to a church that keeps expecting the Holy Spirit to manifest in such a dramatic way that they lose self control when the Holy Spirit is in her since she had been saved

I'm not going to try "selling" you on this, but will warn you out of love. You are accountable for what you SAY about such things if your words interfere with God. Many thousands of Christians attended that revival. I don't believe Satan deceived them, but uses ignorance of old revivals to confuse the ignorant. God also is quite capable of blinding the eyes of people doing great harm to the Church, like Jesus did to Saul (Paul). I will not teach Paul had his basis of conversion based on a satanic experience. I will not support speculation that he simply fell off his horse, hit his head, damaging his brain, to end up with a TIA stroke, blind for a time. The world loves such guesswork.

Preaching anything else other than Jesus Christ and Him crucified, then you are seeking the glory of that something else and the credit for the "chnage" to that life is to something else; and NOT TO the Lord Jesus Christ by His words.

I still shout Hallelujah, wag my head, dance a few steps, fall to my knees, when a major truth is revealed to the congregation, "taken over" by a move of the Spirit providing that, singing or praying in tongues, oblivious to those around us. It just doesn't matter what someone might judge me over. That's why we no longer attend So. Baptist meetings, even though overall you don't see their names in the newspaper Police Report. They tend to sit motionless. I understand, for I was among them sitting motionless, emotionless, with dry eyes trying to act super-spiritual, in total control of my body. The preacher has to ask for an Amen. It's that superficial, out of sync "SELF CONTROL" that God doesn't appreciate. It's religion denying the power thereof.

I close with honesty towards the Lord, forgiving, praying for any who are troubled with scenes of Christian events presented through eyes of unbelievers. When someone says they had a "heart wrenching" experience, it's definitely hard to empathize with that unless you've had the same experience.

Since no good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree can produce a good fruit, what you deem as demonic or not of Him in any movement of the "spirit", then none of it is when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit when He has been in you since you had believed at the calling of the gospel, but if you do not judge any movement of the "spirit" as not of Him, then you have to wonder when any one has tested the spirits, but ignored John's warning by believing every spirit as of God.

 

[Dovegiven]

Key word is present as in always abiding in us so that if any believer feels a spirit coming over them or filling them, they know that is NOT the Holy Spirit when He dwells in us since our salvation. You remove that line of discernment of 1 John 4:4, then you can never test the spirits but believe every spirit that comes over you.



When ecstatic tongues existed before Pentecost and we are not to speak as the world speak nor run the way the world runs after spirits in receiving them after a sign, then for us to abstain from all appearances of evil requires us to prove tongues and not just the spirits. 1 John 4:5-6 KJV



It is not a switch to a campaign for Christ but a switch from preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified to preaching another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh; that is the iniquity here.



Problem is... God would never give that appearane of evil for any one to wonder if there wasn't anything medically wrong with such a person. If someone fell backwards and had body parts twitching, it is amazing how nobody is alarmed that the person may be experiencing a grand maltese and calling 911, That said, is why God would not be the author of confusion on such a person nor giving such appearance of confusion to any one else. That is what that young girl get for going to a church that keeps expecting the Holy Spirit to manifest in such a dramatic way that they lose self control when the Holy Spirit is in her since she had been saved

Preaching anything else other than Jesus Christ and Him crucified, then you are seeking the glory of that something else and the credit for the "chnage" to that life is to something else; and NOT TO the Lord Jesus Christ by His words.

Since no good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree can produce a good fruit, what you deem as demonic or not of Him in any movement of the "spirit", then none of it is when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit when He has been in you since you had believed at the calling of the gospel, but if you do not judge any movement of the "spirit" as not of Him, then you have to wonder when any one has tested the spirits, but ignored John's warning by believing every spirit as of God.

Did the apostles only teach Jesus? No. They taught how to live in Christ, going far beyond the depth of the words of Jesus, as promised by Jesus, to be taught by the Holy Spirit. Are you of the "Jesus Only" denomination? There remains a rebellion against the apostolic teachings beyond the "synoptic gospels". So I must ask what is your source of spiritual knowledge which Jesus said would come after His?

John 14:26 (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit was sent to add and remind. How much have you received from that Holy Ghost? Denials from your leaders claiming Paul, Peter, et. al. were false apostles, but they today are the true ones?

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Did the apostles only teach Jesus? No. They taught how to live in Christ, going far beyond the depth of the words of Jesus, as promised by Jesus, to be taught by the Holy Spirit. Are you of the "Jesus Only" denomination? There remains a rebellion against the apostolic teachings beyond the "synoptic gospels". So I must ask what is your source of spiritual knowledge which Jesus said would come after His?

John 14:26 (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit was sent to add and remind. How much have you received from that Holy Ghost? Denials from your leaders claiming Paul, Peter, et. al. were false apostles, but they today are the true ones?

Definition of the Jesus Only Movement; "Jesus Only Movement. The Jesus Only Movement maintains that there is only one person in the Godhead: Jesus. One view held in the Jesus only movement is that the person of the Father became the person of the Son who then became the person of the Holy Spirit and that the persons are consecutive, not simultaneous. "

So by that definition, all Pentecostals and Charismatics are more "LIKE" the Jesus Only Movement since now the focus is only on the Holy Spirit as being that Jesus Only now as if He is the ONLY Go To in coming to God the Father by.

And yet Jesus said Himself that HE is the only way to come to God the Father by; He did not say..." ooops.. I almost forgot. You can come to the Holy Spirit in coming to God the Father by." in John 14:6 He said it and He meant it; that He is the only way to come to God the Father by.

That includes how we honor God the Father in worship as the latter part of verse 23 in John 5:23 cites that when you honor NOT the Son, you are NOT honoring the Father; and the Holy Spirit was never mentioned as the other part of the Triune God to honor because He dwells in us to lead us to honor the Father by only honoring the Son in worship because the Holy Spirit is SUPPOSED to glorify JESUS CHRIST thru us in worship. There is no other way for the Holy Spirit to do that.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Those who worship God the Father must do so IN spirit & IN truth but those saints who seek to receive the "Holy Spirit" on them when He is already n them are doing so in denial as out of the spirit and apart from the truth.

 

[Dave M]

@Dovegiven

I appreciate your passion for Jesus and our love for him unites us. You have my respect and Love as a brother in Christ.

I would like to ask, what would it look like for a false anointing, or a false revival?? please understand I am not accusing anyone of anything, because I am not mature enough to understand what is going on in these videos this I know for sure.

also how would this verse apply to the videos posted?

1 Corinthians 14 ---40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven

I appreciate your passion for Jesus and our love for him unites us. You have my respect and Love as a brother in Christ.

I would like to ask, what would it look like for a false anointing, or a false revival?? please understand I am not accusing anyone of anything, because I am not mature enough to understand what is going on in these videos this I know for sure.

also how would this verse apply to the videos posted?

1 Corinthians 14 ---40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

Many blessings on you, Brother.
The tongues issue is simple to support. On the Day of Pentecost, when the 120 Jews appeared as drunk to the crowd, risking being arrested for Law violation given they were in the day and in public, strongly suggesting the Holy Spirit took over their tongues as well as their overall actions. Then came the salvation of the whole house of Cornelius, a gentile. They spoke in tongues and prophecied, convincing Peter and company of a true experience in Christ for them. If unknown languages or utterances, that's enough to disturb the status quo clergy of any century. Now, if those people suddenly, miraculously spoke with known languages not known to them previously, others perfectly understanding, then we have a fantastic miracle, those speakers not in control of their mouths. A few decades later Paul ran across a group of John's disciples in Acts 19. John's disciples believed with John, and witnessed the Savior John said was coming. Many of them followed Jesus, who interestingly is never on record as batptizing folks in water. He baptizes in the Spirit, like John taught. Their fault was knowing only the gospel of John the Baptist. Paul was not called to baptize people, leaving such ordinances to folks like John's disciples. But when he learned those men had not even heard of the Holy Spirit, he laid hands on them and they were baptized i nthe Holy Spirit, with evidence of speaking in tongues and prophesying. Where did all that end? No scripture predicts it, lest love itself has left.

I don't have to look at Brownsville to give an example of how when the Holy Spirit totally takes over, we know it isn't the Devil in them. For one, the Devil is not known to heal people miraculously of disease. He doesn't get folks saved and delivered from a life of crime. He will not divide his own house.
A Christain ladie's son here was horribly hooked on meth. She asked me to do something. She found out he was being evicted for drug crimes in a rental house, and needed to move his belongings into storage. I had never met him, but the day I did I let him ride on my pickup. As I shared the Lord with him, he curled up in the floorboard like an armadillo, delirious with fear, screaming "I can't be saved, it's too late. Stop telling me!" Well, I was driving, and helping. I just said Jesus still loves him, and is quite capable of getting him through that belief, and was ready to deliver him. I left him at the storage facility, with him refusing more kindness. But my wife told him "We helped you today, so you owe me something. I will see you in church Sunday."

Come Sunday, when pastor started an altar call, the young man jumped over a pew, ran down the aisle, and fell face to the floor. He jerked, rolled, chattered his teeth, cried, shouted. Awful chemical odors emitted, and a yellow stain soaked his shirt. He spoke in tongues, and eventually rose to his feet totally sane snf accepting the Lord gloriously. He even quit cigarettes that day. He became a model soul winner going after the drug lab folks, the users too, and being a mechanic stopped to help anyone stranded on a highway, going after parts, repairing on the spot, not taking reimbursement or payment. His second ministry was doing that so he could tell drivers "No money, but you do owe the Lord a visit to my church Sunday." That opened up hearts, people kneeling to receive Jesus. He became a fanatic for Jesus.

I will never believe Satan or any demon had a single thing to do with his salvation experience. His body was rid of no telling how many poisons that Sunday, not to mention a demon(s). He "recharges" in the Spirit very easily, sparking other folks to get to the altar, commit to doing SOMETHING for Jesus besides warming a pew, ready to take on the most vile of sinners.

A false revival? I would expect the harvest would be many unbelievers staying corrupted, going forth to spread their venom, destroying as many lives as possible. The folks who attended Brownsville went to witness a mighty move of God, returning home freshly energized to read and learn the scriptures more and be much more involved in ministry.

Unfortunately we don't see such events often, maybe twice more in 20 years, producing a good number of rededicated college students in 2016 who were sliding away. Tongues occasionally, but that does still wake up the dead.
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

They might miss the points of a sermon, but will see somethng miraculous they can't shake off. One man going to that revival on the bus found himself answering an altar call for anyone wanting to be saved. The appeal lingered, lingered. He struggled, thinking he was a Christian, but yielded anyway. He saw the shaking, folks on the floor, heard the tongues, all of which "woke him up" to his deep need for a real relationship with Jesus. It turns out thousands of church folks went down there, somewhat hardened/dulled to preaching, but responding to the evidences of the Spirit which cannot be denied, though of course strange.

I understand someone seeing those videos and being alarmed. I too was disturbed when first seeing such. But a bus load of us escorted a teenage girl in our church, not responding to many prayers for relief from extreme rheumatoid arthritis all over her body, to a Benny Hinn crusade. I know, but let me finish. She was placed in the wheelchair rows by the stadium platform. She was exhausted from the trip, slumped over, held in by straps. Before Benny even came into view, workers down there began ministering to the disabled. One by one rose up, some dancing, one guy tearing tubes out of himself. Some sang who had not been able to speak. That teenage girl got up dancing "in the Spirit", rode home with wheelchair packed away, and a week later was totally healed. She joined the praise and worship team, and sometimes was overcome with what the Lord had done, shaking and testifying, pleading for others to trust Jesus. The girl in the video reminds us of her. It isn't that such movements are "out of control", but that the blessed are easily overwhelmed with joy whenever the Lord is manifesting in power, all the days of their lives.

If you had been there I have no doubt you, being sensitive to the wonders of God, would have understood. The Holy Spirit was not "in" that video, but was "there" for those attending.

 

[Dave M]

@Dovegiven

thanks for sharing brother !!

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Many blessings on you, Brother.
The tongues issue is simple to support. On the Day of Pentecost, when the 120 Jews appeared as drunk to the crowd, risking being arrested for Law violation given they were in the day and in public, strongly suggesting the Holy Spirit took over their tongues as well as their overall actions.

@Dave M I point out that the slander of them being drunk was because they were speaking in foreign languages; not because they were all falling down and stuff. I also point out that Peter was able to stand and speak plainly to the Jews. Now if he was falling donw, shaking or whatever, the Jews would just think them "drunk" as someone slandered, and move on.

Then came the salvation of the whole house of Cornelius, a gentile. They spoke in tongues and prophecied, convincing Peter and company of a true experience in Christ for them. If unknown languages or utterances, that's enough to disturb the status quo clergy of any century. Now, if those people suddenly, miraculously spoke with known languages not known to them previously, others perfectly understanding, then we have a fantastic miracle, those speakers not in control of their mouths.

Although not all understood what was said, everything that was said was in a foreign language to be heard by those nearby that did understood it.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

So those who said they were drunk, it is written that they were mocking aboout them speaking in foreign languages.

A few decades later Paul ran across a group of John's disciples in Acts 19. John's disciples believed with John, and witnessed the Savior John said was coming. Many of them followed Jesus, who interestingly is never on record as batptizing folks in water. He baptizes in the Spirit, like John taught. Their fault was knowing only the gospel of John the Baptist. Paul was not called to baptize people, leaving such ordinances to folks like John's disciples. But when he learned those men had not even heard of the Holy Spirit, he laid hands on them and they were baptized i nthe Holy Spirit, with evidence of speaking in tongues and prophesying. Where did all that end? No scripture predicts it, lest love itself has left.

Paul came across certain disciples, not knowing what kind they were. When they did not know about the Holy Spirit, he had asked them of what water baptism they were under. John's baptism. That told Paul they were disciples of John the Baptist's and not disciples of Jesus Christ. Then Paul proceeded to testify to them that Jesus was the One John was preaching about, then they believed because they got water baptized in Jesus's name and then they got saved. So they were not believers in Jesus Christ, but heard about Someone coming and Paul confirmed Whom that Someone was. Look at how John preached below;

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

So not every disciple of John's was around when Christ had finally come. Even later on, John sent his disciples to confirm when he was in prison.

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

So when Paul came across "certain" disciples, that was like saying that he did not know what kind a disciple. Discovering they were disciples of John, Paul told them the good news, got water baptized in Jesus's name, and they got saved.

I don't have to look at Brownsville to give an example of how when the Holy Spirit totally takes over, we know it isn't the Devil in them. For one, the Devil is not known to heal people miraculously of disease. He doesn't get folks saved and delivered from a life of crime. He will not divide his own house.
A Christain ladie's son here was horribly hooked on meth. She asked me to do something. She found out he was being evicted for drug crimes in a rental house, and needed to move his belongings into storage. I had never met him, but the day I did I let him ride on my pickup. As I shared the Lord with him, he curled up in the floorboard like an armadillo, delirious with fear, screaming "I can't be saved, it's too late. Stop telling me!" Well, I was driving, and helping. I just said Jesus still loves him, and is quite capable of getting him through that belief, and was ready to deliver him. I left him at the storage facility, with him refusing more kindness. But my wife told him "We helped you today, so you owe me something. I will see you in church Sunday."

Come Sunday, when pastor started an altar call, the young man jumped over a pew, ran down the aisle, and fell face to the floor. He jerked, rolled, chattered his teeth, cried, shouted. Awful chemical odors emitted, and a yellow stain soaked his shirt. He spoke in tongues, and eventually rose to his feet totally sane snf accepting the Lord gloriously. He even quit cigarettes that day. He became a model soul winner going after the drug lab folks, the users too, and being a mechanic stopped to help anyone stranded on a highway, going after parts, repairing on the spot, not taking reimbursement or payment. His second ministry was doing that so he could tell drivers "No money, but you do owe the Lord a visit to my church Sunday." That opened up hearts, people kneeling to receive Jesus. He became a fanatic for Jesus.

I will never believe Satan or any demon had a single thing to do with his salvation experience. His body was rid of no telling how many poisons that Sunday, not to mention a demon(s). He "recharges" in the Spirit very easily, sparking other folks to get to the altar, commit to doing SOMETHING for Jesus besides warming a pew, ready to take on the most vile of sinners.

A false revival? I would expect the harvest would be many unbelievers staying corrupted, going forth to spread their venom, destroying as many lives as possible. The folks who attended Brownsville went to witness a mighty move of God, returning home freshly energized to read and learn the scriptures more and be much more involved in ministry.

Unfortunately we don't see such events often, maybe twice more in 20 years, producing a good number of rededicated college students in 2016 who were sliding away. Tongues occasionally, but that does still wake up the dead.
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

They might miss the points of a sermon, but will see somethng miraculous they can't shake off. One man going to that revival on the bus found himself answering an altar call for anyone wanting to be saved. The appeal lingered, lingered. He struggled, thinking he was a Christian, but yielded anyway. He saw the shaking, folks on the floor, heard the tongues, all of which "woke him up" to his deep need for a real relationship with Jesus. It turns out thousands of church folks went down there, somewhat hardened/dulled to preaching, but responding to the evidences of the Spirit which cannot be denied, though of course strange.

I understand someone seeing those videos and being alarmed. I too was disturbed when first seeing such. But a bus load of us escorted a teenage girl in our church, not responding to many prayers for relief from extreme rheumatoid arthritis all over her body, to a Benny Hinn crusade. I know, but let me finish. She was placed in the wheelchair rows by the stadium platform. She was exhausted from the trip, slumped over, held in by straps. Before Benny even came into view, workers down there began ministering to the disabled. One by one rose up, some dancing, one guy tearing tubes out of himself. Some sang who had not been able to speak. That teenage girl got up dancing "in the Spirit", rode home with wheelchair packed away, and a week later was totally healed. She joined the praise and worship team, and sometimes was overcome with what the Lord had done, shaking and testifying, pleading for others to trust Jesus. The girl in the video reminds us of her. It isn't that such movements are "out of control", but that the blessed are easily overwhelmed with joy whenever the Lord is manifesting in power, all the days of their lives.

I point out that those who profess Him were doing miracles in His name too in Matthew 7:21-23, but because they were workers of iniquity was why their houses were falling down; hence symbolic of believers losing self control & falling backwards in Matthew 7:24-27 for ignoring His words that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by in worship, prayer, and fellowship ( John 14:6 & John 5:23 KJV ) and the spirit of the antichrist as in "instead of Christ" or "instead of the Son hence the Bridegroom" in taking that spotlight away from the Son in seducing saints to chase after them to receive after a sign, denying the Holy Spirit in them as promised at the calling of the gospel; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 KJV

If you had been there I have no doubt you, being sensitive to the wonders of God, would have understood. The Holy Spirit was not "in" that video, but was "there" for those attending.

The apostle John taught us how to test the spirits and if any one confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; ( that is the same thing as saying Jesus Christ is presently in us for the examination of our faith in 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV ) then they are bearing true witness 1 John 4:1-2 KJV; but if they say Jesus Christ is NOT come in the flesh, then that is the spirit of the antichrist that is IN THE WORLD as greater is He that is in you than that spirit which is in the world 1 John 4:3-4 KJV

So when they say the Spirit of Christ is in the worship place..... what for when our bodies is the temple of the Holy Spirit and He dwells in us as 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 KJV says? But the line of discernment John has given us tells us that is the spirit of the antichrist that is in the worship place. .. doing the iniquity that the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do.. take the spotlight off of the Bridegroom in worship to chasing after them to receive by a sign as an adulterous generation.

They are still saved, but Luke 13:24-30 also testifies to those who profess Him and feel His Presence when eating and drinking ( Mass or "holy communion" ) as they and those of the miraculous in Matthew 7:21-23 are at risk of being left behind to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation.

Keep your eyes on the Bridegroom, @Dave M because the Bridegroom will be coming soon, Don't follow after them that are in the market place looking to fill their lamps with oil when the prudent knows they are Spirit-filled & ready to go.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dave M I point out that the slander of them being drunk was because they were speaking in foreign languages; not because they were all falling down and stuff. I also point out that Peter was able to stand and speak plainly to the Jews. Now if he was falling donw, shaking or whatever, the Jews would just think them "drunk" as someone slandered, and move on.

I will have to halt on that first statement. Where does it say that was why the 120 were slandered? Did not the hearers understand all their words in their own dialects, amazed because they were but Galileans? How might just one of them do that when drunken? One or a few more accused of drunkenness.

When a suspect is stopped as suspected of DUI, their speech pattern is part of a determination, but a cop has to rule out a disease causing speech impediment. He then has the suspect perform tasks common to people who are licensed to drive without printed restrictions. Then the officer can proceed to request a breathalyzer test, or go to an ER to have it done medically. If they refuse that, then they are legally assumed to be evading law, a judge sentencing. The Jews had their own regulations, and were quite adept at enforcing the Law.

I would not judge that situation on the basis of speaking in tongues. No other instance of doing that brought up a similar charge. Peter and those accompanying him to the house of Cornelius were strict Jews, acting on behalf of Jewry, naturally arriving with doubt concerning any blessing for a gentile, but for Peter's dream.

Multiplied millions of worldwide Christians have experienced what Cornelius' family experienced. We KNOW. No disbeliever will shake that from them, or me. A believer can remain in some unbelieving denomination, but will find the intended power to serve with gladness, power and true joy is probably missing. Be filled with the Spirit, again for the first time.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@Dave M I point out that the slander of them being drunk was because they were speaking in foreign languages; not because they were all falling down and stuff. I also point out that Peter was able to stand and speak plainly to the Jews. Now if he was falling down, shaking or whatever, the Jews would just think them "drunk" as someone slandered, and move on.

I will have to halt on that first statement. Where does it say that was why the 120 were slandered? Did not the hearers understand all their words in their own dialects, amazed because they were but Galileans? How might just one of them do that when drunken? One or a few more accused of drunkenness.

My rebuttal in your post to @Dave M was to point out there was no shaking nor any one falling down as if they were slandered as drunk in that way; but it was written that they were mocking them that spoke in foreign languages. Even now as the rest of your quote continues, you go back to the shaking and thus validating the falling down that comes with the spirit that caused this shaking which you claim was the Holy Spirit later on in life apart from the time you were born again of the Spirit when you were saved.

When a suspect is stopped as suspected of DUI, their speech pattern is part of a determination, but a cop has to rule out a disease causing speech impediment. He then has the suspect perform tasks common to people who are licensed to drive without printed restrictions. Then the officer can proceed to request a breathalyzer test, or go to an ER to have it done medically. If they refuse that, then they are legally assumed to be evading law, a judge sentencing. The Jews had their own regulations, and were quite adept at enforcing the Law.

I would not judge that situation on the basis of speaking in tongues. No other instance of doing that brought up a similar charge. Peter and those accompanying him to the house of Cornelius were strict Jews, acting on behalf of Jewry, naturally arriving with doubt concerning any blessing for a gentile, but for Peter's dream.

Multiplied millions of worldwide Christians have experienced what Cornelius' family experienced. We KNOW. No disbeliever will shake that from them, or me. A believer can remain in some unbelieving denomination, but will find the intended power to serve with gladness, power and true joy is probably missing. Be filled with the Spirit, again for the first time.

The irony is that you allow a shaking and a falling down to move you from the traditions taught of us as to when believers had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth which was at the calling of the gospel and no other time. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 So once again, that is not what had happened at Pentecost and to include what you had experienced today as to be what was happening back then in Acts 2 when scripture did not say, that is falsehood.

As sickly as that girl was looking, no way would that look like the Good News to devout Jews hearing the disciples speak in foreign languages if they were acting like that. No way.

 

[Dovegiven]

The crowd witnessing the 120 heard every one of those Christians preaching in very diverse languages, even down to precise dialects (versions of a language). If each of the 120 had acquired all that, that was miraculous.

I see that major denominational folks still don't understand pentecostals. That doesn't rob pentecostals and charismatics of their blessings. Pentecostals do stick to a general notion that speaking in tongues is "the" sign of salvation. That doctrine helped develop the Charismatic movement. There had to be something else. Well, John the Baptist and Jesus taught salvation through repentance and believing the gospel of Christ.

Examine the way of John. Repent of sin so the repenter can be forgiven of sin. Turn around. Be willing to meet face to face with holy God with a clear conscience. That puts a heavy face on "repent". Next came Jesus, preaching John's way, repenting of sin, but adding believe on Him who was coming (Jesus the Christ of God), who came came right away, submitting to John's baptism in water which was a sign to others one had repented and looked forward to the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus came and went out preaching
Mark 1:15 (KJV)
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

That is salvation.

Now let's move on to
1 John 5:6-13 (KJV)
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Where did the "three" witnesses enter in? At the tabernacle of God, patterned after His heavenly temple. There wer three steps to approaching Holy God in the inner sanctuary. Outside that hold space containing the Holiest of All, the Ark of God, were three spaces. The first the priest encountered was the ALTAR, where the blood was applied. That signified the coming final sacrifice of Jesus, body and blood though inherently innocent of sin. Who could say a little lamb could be of sin? That place was established as the provisional salvation of God based on shed blood.

Next came the LAVER, the bowl of cleansing. It is still outside the Holy Place. That, for Christians, is signified in water baptism. Dying to sin, per John's gospel, drowned with Jesus in death, with hope only remaining. Most hold at that place, hoping their repentance and water baptism fixed everything. But then comes offered the third step, approaching holy God in the Holy Place.

The next place outside the Holy Place is the flask of anointing, the holy oil representing the Holy Spirit. Both the blood of the altar, and the oil of anointing, was sprinkled on the priest. Only then could the priest enter the presence of holy God. The pattern is three step, and cannot be changed. That step is taken by Pentecostals and Charismatics, all of the Full Gospel, daring to believe and practice the Word of God without fear. Critics are not hated, but are given the truth in love without malice.

We all heard, repented of sin, when the notion of sin came to us probably through some preacher or evangelist. We Christians believed the gospel of Christ, so believing on Christ. That is SALVATION.

Pentecostals love the third step. Entering in to the JOY of Christ, with power to do the mighty things He commanded disciples to do. We. along with what chaismatics label "Full Gospel" doctrine, accepting all the word of God as a living precept, do not choose to ty to sidestep that last of three stations. The old priests were subject to dying whenever skipping that last step. That is why many denominations have so far strayed from the way of God that they sit as dead monuments, critics of what they vaguely hoped for. Saved? Probably, if they repented and believed the gospel. Victorious, more than conquerors? Not likely, given the sidestepping of that third station leading to the entrance of the Holy, and then on to the Most Holy, which is of course out of range for the unbelieving.

Without suspecting a bit of that, Millennials and other more youthful people are said frequently these days to have departed from the Church in droves. Not so. They have departed en masse from a spirit of religion to wherever they find truth and power, the Spirit of God, finding answers to their powerful questions and doubts. Moving to "interdenominational or non-denominational status takes them off man's list of denominational adherents, so are counted as "departed", not counted, therefore lost to the "Spirit of Religion", a net loss of members of "recognized" congregational status. No, they are not lost. They are lively, energized, on fire for God's Kingdom.

If anyone here thinks they have the "fire" of pentecost, they are not "more saved", but are saved to do the commandments of God in Christ with power. You will have no problem understanding why the voice of the prophet Isaiah shook the building and filled it with smoke. For us who shake and tremble in His presence, it is natural. For those who stand in their own power, woe.

If you are not even attending and supporting a local church congregation, you are not abiding in that Spirit of filling. You are like a coal burning to mere ash, having a memory of the good, wandering by every breeze moving ashes on the hearth, to be heaped in the yard in a pile for the rain to dissolve.

Be ye filled with the Spirit of God, not fearing what others think of that. The world will hate you because it hates Jesus. Live anyway.

 

[Curtis]

I was asked to come to a small Church to teach, and play music, which I accepted glad-fully. After I have finished teaching a lesson, I asked if anyone wanted to come up for prayer. A few people came up, and I prayed for them. Then another lady came up to be prayed for. When I laid my hand on her head she fell backward. When the service was over the pastor came up and said he thought this lady fell down because we planned it ahead of time for her fall back!!! He thanked me for coming, but did not want us to ever come back!!! I was amazed at what he said. I never thought anything like that would ever happen to me. It did not bother in the least, as we drove off back home rejoicing in the Lord that we were persecuted for what we believe.

I believe what the Bible teaches me, and could care less what man says unless there is a witness of the Holy Spirit that what I am hearing is from the Spirit of truth. I do not consider myself to be Pentecostal, or charismatic but I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and no they have not passed away. I am just your basic standard believer. :smile:

 

[Sue D.]

@ Curtis -- so What was the implications of the lady falling backward. I would have been concerned that she had fainted or passed out or something.

 

[Dovegiven]

I was asked to come to a small Church to teach, and play music, which I accepted glad-fully. After I have finished teaching a lesson, I asked if anyone wanted to come up for prayer. A few people came up, and I prayed for them. Then another lady came up to be prayed for. When I laid my hand on her head she fell backward. When the service was over the pastor came up and said he thought this lady fell down because we planned it ahead of time for her fall back!!! He thanked me for coming, but did not want us to ever come back!!! I was amazed at what he said. I never thought anything like that would ever happen to me. It did not bother in the least, as we drove off back home rejoicing in the Lord that we were persecuted for what we believe.

I believe what the Bible teaches me, and could care less what man says unless there is a witness of the Holy Spirit that what I am hearing is from the Spirit of truth. I do not consider myself to be Pentecostal, or charismatic but I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and no they have not passed away. I am just your basic standard believer. :smile:

I've experienced that several times, like when presenting the Gideon International message, or just filling in for an absent pastor. It's common for local churches to not even have a pastor, or anyone that can preach or teach. I've been told in some "cowboy" churches I was over-dressed in a suit, making the men uncomfortable, so won't call us back. We always assumed that style unless advised before the date. The purpose was to share some testimonies of people receiving a Bible or NT, how they are blessed. Gideon rules advise never to preach a sermon lest some doctrine you are not aware of there offends, and Gideons are no longer welcome. I had difficulty keeping that rule, but didn't keep it when asked to bypass that.

Even some little mainline congregations don't want the word "blood" uttered, though they believe in the blood of Jesus. Some pastors will ask, or whoever is in charge of a service as soon as we arrive to just preach the gospel. Well, some denominations are well known so that isn't much of a problem. Some will try to make a habit of inviting if they receive the preaching.

I learned to keep it very basic (the Cross), learn a congregation, see what they practice there, and preferably have a sit-down with pastors beforehand. Some will say "No altar call, we're all saved here." Getting the gospel out there sometimes requires building relationships. There are now more invites than can be filled, so I gave up the Gideon work, but support Bible distribution around the world.

I assume you know not to lay hands on people in a Baptist church! Even some pentecostal congregations have stopped letting people fall out under the Spirit like that lady because of news of a lawsuit from someone being injured falling, or another hurt helping them back up, or "catching" to ease a fall. Hard on backs!

So I'd just keep on ministering wherever you can, don't let such things matter to you, as you said. Lay hands on folks if you are invited to, and don't let any challenge you to hold the snake against your best judgment.

 

[MadHermit]

I grew up in a Pentecostal church left it for seminary and then, over the years, was exposed to various charismatic churches. So what are the differences?
(1) Classic Pentecostals teach that speaking in tongues is THE indispensable initial evidence for Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Many charismatics believe that speaking tongues can be, but need not be the initial evidence.
(2) Classic Pentecostals believe in a pre-tribulation, premillennial rapture of the church, but charismatics don't necessarily share that belief.
(3) There are Catholic, Episcopal, Anglican, and Baptist [or "Bapticostal"] charismatic groups that adhere to their denomination's doctrines, but also believe in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues, prophecy, and divine healing.

Posters who bash Pentecostal spirituality should note that Pentecostal young people are often willing to pray for long periods and to risk danger by engaging street evangelism and door-to-door witnessing.

 

[B-A-C]

I consider myself Pentecostal. I have always wondered how non Pentecostals justify certain verses.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

If these signs accompany "those who have believed" (in Jesus's name).. and these signs aren't accompanying you or your church, do you ever worry?

1 Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Why does God give these gifts to the church?

[NLT] 1 Cor 12:7; A spiritual gift is given to each of us so we can help each other.

If there is no tangible evidence of the Holy Spirit moving in your church, how do you know the Holy Spirit is even there?
No prophecies, no miracles, no tongues or interpretations, and no healings. If these things aren't happening in your church do you ever get worried?

1 Cor 14:4; One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Cor 14:5; Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy ; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

If a church is only "speaking in tongues" and there are no miracles, healings, or prophesies, I would be pretty concerned.
Anything can be abused, perhaps the video is the Holy Spirit, perhaps not.. I do not know. But even if it isn't. We can't say God never uses the gifts of the Spirit in the church today.

Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Have you received this "power". Have you evidenced it in your life? Have you done a miracle, healed someone, prophesied, spoke in a language you didn't know?
Then how do you know you have this power?

When the apostles (and others, Stephen and Barnabas for example) did these signs and wonders, people could not deny they were from God.
People got saved when they saw the power of God moving. Is this happening in your life?

1 Cor 2:4; and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Thes 1:5; for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

Now I don't believe you have to do these things in order to be saved, nor does doing these things prove you ARE saved. (Matt 7;21-23; )
But if God gave us this power, why wouldn't you want to use it?