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What is the forum's stance on abortion?

@DEM0 -- Your two qualifiers for allowing for aborting a baby -- learning / practicing self-control is Very important. Both on the part of the perpetrator of a rape and the promiscuous woman. But we also need to realize that a new human being is being brought into this world.

And I'll agree that rape Can be a very emotionally, physically traumatic experience for the girl, teen, woman involved. And some of those baby's will abort Naturally. And, of course counseling would be a necessity. But, if at all possible -- give the rape victim all the support possible to get her through the pregnacy and help find a good adoptive home for the innocent baby. And, sometimes, what Has happened, is that the mother-to-be gets attached to the new human that she can feel inside of her. And, so, in that process -- she chooses To keep her baby. Now -- depending on the age and circumstances -- giving the new-born up for adoption to a Christian family is a wonderful solution.

Both men and women need to learn self-control. 'We' Can live without sex. And Biblically we're supposed to until 'we' are married.

We Do need to consider the well-being of the child. Adoption to a Christian family / couple would be a good alternative to 'making her keep it'. Maybe a better alternative would be to hold the young woman financially responsible For the baby's needs. Like a man with child-support.

And, yes, this Is a touchy subject. And , yes, it Does need to be dealt with.

There is a period of time -- beginnings of puberty -- when our bodies are giving us all sorts of signals. A sex drive. That's why God gives us guidelines for using it. Not until marriage. It is supposed to be special for marriage.

You and my wife would get along quite well Sue . We often discuss this topic especially when it comes up during sermon at our church. My wife agrees that any and all options should be tried before an abortion should be done due to rape. I still stand firm and I'm not really moved in my opinion but it's interesting to see other women like yourself want to produce child even under dire circumstances. I'm willing to admit that I may not fully understand because I'm not a woman and I can't really understand the full extent of pregnancy and nurturing a baby in the womb. I only speak my opinion on how I think a woman would feel during a situation like forced pregnancy. Thank you for your response and God bless.
 
@ DEMO -- I've given birth to 4 children. The life being felt inside your womb is extraordinary. Their wake/ sleep cycles. The baby gets hicups. When they're active they can kick the daylights out of ya. My older daughter did that -- her feet got up under my rib cage and kicked and kicked for a while --felt like she was trying to kick her way out. I quit work 6 weeks before she was born.

Many decades ago -- before I was married -- the guy I'd been dating was being sent to Viet Nam. He tried forcing himself on me -- he got distracted for just a moment and I was able to get away. He thought he'd get me pregnant before he left so that he'd have someone to come back home to. That's what he told me after the fact. We were out on a picnic and all of a sudden he was on top of me -- and stripping me. He was Not being 'nice' about it. Of course I still had to have him take me back home. He was actually surprised that I was upset with him. We were dating and practically engaged. Ya just don't report That to the police.

But the 2nd time -- after church and in his car -- he was on top of me Again. This time he succeeded. I raced into my house -- lived with my parents. Ran upstairs to the bathroom. Very thankful that I didn't get pregnant.

And , no, didn't say anything about That either. I mean ' date rape' -- ya know -- 'big deal'.

I'm all for getting to know people. How old is your wife? I'm 70. If she's interested in doing a 'conversation' -- great.
 
@ DEMO -- I've given birth to 4 children. The life being felt inside your womb is extraordinary. Their wake/ sleep cycles. The baby gets hicups. When they're active they can kick the daylights out of ya. My older daughter did that -- her feet got up under my rib cage and kicked and kicked for a while --felt like she was trying to kick her way out. I quit work 6 weeks before she was born.

Many decades ago -- before I was married -- the guy I'd been dating was being sent to Viet Nam. He tried forcing himself on me -- he got distracted for just a moment and I was able to get away. He thought he'd get me pregnant before he left so that he'd have someone to come back home to. That's what he told me after the fact. We were out on a picnic and all of a sudden he was on top of me -- and stripping me. He was Not being 'nice' about it. Of course I still had to have him take me back home. He was actually surprised that I was upset with him. We were dating and practically engaged. Ya just don't report That to the police.

But the 2nd time -- after church and in his car -- he was on top of me Again. This time he succeeded. I raced into my house -- lived with my parents. Ran upstairs to the bathroom. Very thankful that I didn't get pregnant.

And , no, didn't say anything about That either. I mean ' date rape' -- ya know -- 'big deal'.

I'm all for getting to know people. How old is your wife? I'm 70. If she's interested in doing a 'conversation' -- great.

I'm very sorry to hear that you experienced rape early in your life not only on one occasion but multiple times and never mentioning it to authorities is compelling to me. I'm assuming rape or rather rape accusations were treated differently back in the 60s/70s era.

It also seems to me from how comfortable you are talking about it gives me the impression that you've put the experience behind you and moved forward and for that you have my up most respect. Your comments in your earlier post ring a lot louder now considering you were speaking from personal experience in dealing with rape. I thank you for your insight and I wish you the best and God bless you Sue.
 
Over the years I've realized why lots of rapes don't get reported. Either the woman involved feels she was not being forceful enough to Stop it or she didn't want such a big deal made. Sexual crimes are very Personal crimes and no one wants to have to relive it in the public eye -- unless it's been really horrific or the guy is a serial rapist or something like that. And the human body doesn't especially know that That activity is Bad and will end up 'responding' in ways the woman doesn't want to be responding. And then if she ends up pregnant. Well -- so many conflicting emotions. I can appreciate how having to endure a pregnancy under those conditions Could be seemingly impossible. I don't think that That many rapes Do result in pregnancy. that's why Lots of healthy - Spiritual counseling is needed.

When I was in later elementary school age bracket. I Was approached by an older probably high school aged guy. He Did approach me for what I later learned was oral sex. But at That point I had No clue as to what he was doing to me and then wanted me to do with Him. i freaked out -- started crying -- he simply laughed and left me alone. I was almost home at that time, I was upset and my grandmother was staying with us at the time. I told her about what had just happened. She called my Mom and work and then the police. It was a nice guy in a suit who came to talk to me to find out what had actually happened. And THAT started a drama that lasted for a while. No court room or anything. But That experience - no doubt -- had me very hesitant about reporting anything more.

I'm normally a fairly laid-back person. Don't like much attention. And That experience affected me More after marriage than the other. My husband was interested in that and I balked pretty strong about it. Over the years I've learned that Lots of men like it and lots of women Don't.

this is turning out to be more information than I ended To share. But -- maybe someone needs to hear about it.
 
What is the forum's stance on abortion?

Can it be justified in the last semester?

Alan


More importantly, what is your stance? Any answers here are irrelevant to you. It is YOUR stance that is evidence in your trial and your judge is Yeshua Messiah.
 
Abortion is a very complicated issue that isn’t as black and white as many people on this forum believe it to be, and the reason is because not every case is the same.
some women have abortions because of rape and incest, which, before you tell me in so many words, “so what?”, it’s a very serious and traumatic experience that many of you won’t be able to even begin to try and comprehend. Another reason is because some women are grossly misinformed, and last I checked, ignorance is not evil, just sad.
last but not in the least, many women choose to have an abortion for health reasons. One woman my mom knew had a choice to either go through with the labor and most certainly die (and possibly lose her babies in the process), or have the abortion and spare her life. This woman was strong enough to make the decision to go through with the childbirth, and with that she lost her life and two of the triplets. Can you really expect everyone to make a decision where the stakes are literally life or death. Or better yet, do you think that you could make that decision?
Now don’t get me wrong, I know all of the verses that the Bible says about our life not being our own and only God can give and take away, believe me. I also believe that personally, abortion should not be the first choice that doctors give to women as an alternative for pregnancy. But I also believe that abortion only serves to show as an example of what is wrong with society. Some problems being the foster care system. Any pro-choice activist would rebuttal the “just put the child up for adoption if you don’t want it” argument with “the foster care system is broken” or “I wouldn’t want to carry it to full term”. The first rebuttal shows a sad truth about our society, and that is that we as a people don’t think too much about the unwanted children in America, and a lot of these children fall through the cracks. However, I don’t believe that killing these fetuses to spare them of that life is the answer. I would like to think that the answer is much simpler, and that is to switch the paper filing system to a computer system to lessen the probability of mistakes and outliers. As for the latter rebuttal, there are doctors working on making an artificial womb that can sustain a fetus, which means that a woman does not need to carry the baby to full term.
these are just a few ideas that I think about concerning a few arguments on the abortion debate. Personally, I would like to live in a society where abortion is a rare occurrence, so rare that people would look back to our day and age and think “oh wow, we used to do that? How primitive!” But we can only make that future a reality by taking a step back from our own beliefs and try to learn a new perspective.
 
I am all for a "women's" right over her own body, but she has no right over another body living inside her!!!
 
The topic of abortion is a touchy subject that is usually met with black and white answers that I feel don't justify the circumstances of the criminal and traumatic act of rape. Rape is something that is beyond a woman's control leaving her paralyzed with raw emotion, fear, anxiety, depression and countless other problems that come with encountering such a despicable act.

If a woman is impregnated during this act I feel like she should have the right to terminate the pregnancy if it would cause intense emotional/physical trauma that would cause who knows what kind of events in her life to happen during such a time.

This is a case worth discussing. What happens if a woman gets pregnant from a rape? There is a right way to handle this and a wrong way. The wrong way is abortion as it is murder.

What is the right way? She needs to seek help. If she does not have the means to raise a child she can seek for assistance, be it from her immediate family or from church. She can pour out all her pain and trauma before God, rather than use that as an excuse to commit sin. In fact, abortion itself is traumatic and can leave devastating results and harm to women.
 
I'd like to know if churches where you are put the same energy into promoting adoption as denouncing abortion. Are there programmes, for example, run by churches to support parents of adopted children. Is this seen as a vital life-giving ministry?
 
This is a case worth discussing. What happens if a woman gets pregnant from a rape? There is a right way to handle this and a wrong way. The wrong way is abortion as it is murder.

What is the right way? She needs to seek help. If she does not have the means to raise a child she can seek for assistance, be it from her immediate family or from church. She can pour out all her pain and trauma before God, rather than use that as an excuse to commit sin. In fact, abortion itself is traumatic and can leave devastating results and harm to women.


Okay so yes, the Bible says that all life is precious, and that God has a purpose for every baby that is conceived. I understand that. But neither you or I, or anyone else for that matter, has a right to judge someone else for their decisions. If a woman decides to have an abortion for whatever reason, then that’s between her and God. It’s for that reason that my stance on abortion is that I wouldn’t do it, mostly because could never bring myself to do it, regardless of the situation or circumstances. However, not everyone shares this belief, and I don’t think it’s in my place to constantly impose what I believe onto others. I believe in the more natural approach, which is that I try to live my life as Jesus would and treat others with love and understanding, and hopefully that would inspire others to ask me for the source of this different kind of love that they wouldn’t find in the world, and then I would tell them about Jesus and what He’s done for me and His plans for us.

But I digress.

I can tell by your post that you’ve never been raped before. And if you have, then I’m sorry, but I find it strange that you have no love or sympathy for these people, and I find it even stranger how, for lack of a better term, black and white your thinking is. First off, I find it hilarious that you would even recommend the hypothetical woman goes to church. I’m sorry, but not everyone has a church to go to, and even less people are Christian by choice. There are also plenty of cases where the immediate family is either nonexistent or even supports the abortion in order to cover the shame that the hypothetical woman went through.

“She can pour out all her pain and trauma before God”. Not every woman is Christian, although you and I would both like that, and “rather than use that as an excuse to commit sin”. I’m sorry, but this one sentence quite honestly angers me a bit, and it took me a while to figure out why, but then I broke it down to one word. Excuse.

The woman didn’t ask to be raped and impregnated, and she didn’t ask to be judged. You see abortion as nothing more than a mere excuse, but to many women, it’s a way out, something to spare them of having to give birth to a child they didn’t ask for and was, in this situation, quite literally forced into them. As a Christian, this situation is viewed differently. But that’s exactly why I try to see this from others perspective. Because I learned that, again, not everyone who goes to planned parenthood is a Christian. In fact, very few are. And to tell them that they can’t do something because a religion they don’t believe in says they can’t doesn’t make sense. And what’s even worse is to tell them that you believe they’re wrong, and that you’re not so subtly judging them on the basis of a religion they don’t follow won’t bring them closer to God, but would only push them further.

That is why I try to look at the situation from both ends. That’s why I don’t judge others for decisions I don’t agree with. That’s why I don’t deem others decisions that were made to prevent further trauma as an excuse is unacceptable to me.

And to comment on your last note. I’m sorry, but if you do a little research, you would find that more women feel relief after having an abortion than trauma. And if a woman does feel PTSD, it’s from the trauma of the pregnancy (rape, incest) or just the pregnancy itself. It’s sad how we’ve come to a point in our society where killing fetuses is normalized and many woman don’t feel regret, but that’s why I try to come to the root of the situation, hence my above argument that you so graciously replied to, and many other possible solutions and ideas that go beyond telling people to open up a Bible.

I hope you have a blessed day.
 
Okay so yes, the Bible says that all life is precious, and that God has a purpose for every baby that is conceived. I understand that. But neither you or I, or anyone else for that matter, has a right to judge someone else for their decisions. If a woman decides to have an abortion for whatever reason, then that’s between her and God. It’s for that reason that my stance on abortion is that I wouldn’t do it, mostly because could never bring myself to do it, regardless of the situation or circumstances. However, not everyone shares this belief, and I don’t think it’s in my place to constantly impose what I believe onto others. I believe in the more natural approach, which is that I try to live my life as Jesus would and treat others with love and understanding, and hopefully that would inspire others to ask me for the source of this different kind of love that they wouldn’t find in the world, and then I would tell them about Jesus and what He’s done for me and His plans for us.

But I digress.

I can tell by your post that you’ve never been raped before. And if you have, then I’m sorry, but I find it strange that you have no love or sympathy for these people, and I find it even stranger how, for lack of a better term, black and white your thinking is. First off, I find it hilarious that you would even recommend the hypothetical woman goes to church. I’m sorry, but not everyone has a church to go to, and even less people are Christian by choice. There are also plenty of cases where the immediate family is either nonexistent or even supports the abortion in order to cover the shame that the hypothetical woman went through.

“She can pour out all her pain and trauma before God”. Not every woman is Christian, although you and I would both like that, and “rather than use that as an excuse to commit sin”. I’m sorry, but this one sentence quite honestly angers me a bit, and it took me a while to figure out why, but then I broke it down to one word. Excuse.

The woman didn’t ask to be raped and impregnated, and she didn’t ask to be judged. You see abortion as nothing more than a mere excuse, but to many women, it’s a way out, something to spare them of having to give birth to a child they didn’t ask for and was, in this situation, quite literally forced into them. As a Christian, this situation is viewed differently. But that’s exactly why I try to see this from others perspective. Because I learned that, again, not everyone who goes to planned parenthood is a Christian. In fact, very few are. And to tell them that they can’t do something because a religion they don’t believe in says they can’t doesn’t make sense. And what’s even worse is to tell them that you believe they’re wrong, and that you’re not so subtly judging them on the basis of a religion they don’t follow won’t bring them closer to God, but would only push them further.

That is why I try to look at the situation from both ends. That’s why I don’t judge others for decisions I don’t agree with. That’s why I don’t deem others decisions that were made to prevent further trauma as an excuse is unacceptable to me.

And to comment on your last note. I’m sorry, but if you do a little research, you would find that more women feel relief after having an abortion than trauma. And if a woman does feel PTSD, it’s from the trauma of the pregnancy (rape, incest) or just the pregnancy itself. It’s sad how we’ve come to a point in our society where killing fetuses is normalized and many woman don’t feel regret, but that’s why I try to come to the root of the situation, hence my above argument that you so graciously replied to, and many other possible solutions and ideas that go beyond telling people to open up a Bible.

I hope you have a blessed day.

My stance was never a personal judgment against raped women, it was the judgment of the Bible. Do not Murder is not a law set by me, it is set by God Himself. Murder is sin in God’s eyes and those who participate in it will suffer just like they will suffer for any other sin.

Again you falsely judge me when you say I don’t have sympathy for these women. I had my own fair share of sufferings that were no less painful than the trauma of rape victims so I know firsthand what trauma is.

It is not love when you comfort a trauma victim and say it is ok for them to commit sin. When they eventually reap the consequences of their sin, you will have their blood on your hands for saying it was ok.

Telling raped women they will be harmed further by the sin of abortion is not an act of judgment, it is an act of love. Some trauma victims (not only limited to rape trauma) abuse drugs and self mutilate to make themselves feel temporarily better, how is it love to tell them it’s ok to abuse drugs and self mutilate?

When I’m talking about harm of abortion, I’m talking about both physical and psychological harm. Feeling relief from abortion is a temporary ease, the source you gave fail to give an account how the act of abortion affects them throughout their lives. Some women even lose their ability to be pregnant because of abortion.
 
My stance was never a personal judgment against raped women, it was the judgment of the Bible. Do not Murder is not a law set by me, it is set by God Himself. Murder is sin in God’s eyes and those who participate in it will suffer just like they will suffer for any other sin.

Again you falsely judge me when you say I don’t have sympathy for these women. I had my own fair share of sufferings that were no less painful than the trauma of rape victims so I know firsthand what trauma is.

It is not love when you comfort a trauma victim and say it is ok for them to commit sin. When they eventually reap the consequences of their sin, you will have their blood on your hands for saying it was ok.

Telling raped women they will be harmed further by the sin of abortion is not an act of judgment, it is an act of love. Some trauma victims (not only limited to rape trauma) abuse drugs and self mutilate to make themselves feel temporarily better, how is it love to tell them it’s ok to abuse drugs and self mutilate?

When I’m talking about harm of abortion, I’m talking about both physical and psychological harm. Feeling relief from abortion is a temporary ease, the source you gave fail to give an account how the act of abortion affects them throughout their lives. Some women even lose their ability to be pregnant because of abortion.

I apologize if I passed judgement on you. It is not my intention to try and speculate what kind of person you are, but only to respond to you with facts and, if possible, reason. I'm also afraid that the more I respond to these posts, the further away I'm getting from my main argument, so let me clarify a few points:
1. I understand that abortion is a sin from a biblical standpoint.
2. I also understand that telling someone who isn't Christian that abortion is murder and a sin from a biblical standpoint is fruitless. I know, because I've had these discussions before, and the response I typically get is "it's just a clump of cells", to which I normally reply with "tell that to a woman who just had a miscarriage". Regardless, people still believe what they want to believe.
3. I am not trying to tell women who have abortions that "it was okay," I'm trying to fight for other options so that abortion isn't the first option doctors give women in unwanted pregnancies. That way, there are less abortions, and women have more options. Everyone wins.
4. The fact that women will be harmed further by abortion is inaccurate. In professional clinics (at least in the US), side effects are rare. And emotionally, women typically feel relief after an abortion. Any negative feelings a woman feels after the abortion aren't usually because of the abortion itself. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but those are the facts. That's why I find it more effective to try and find other options, rather than just tell people it's murder and a sin.
5. "Some trauma victims (not only limited to rape trauma) abuse drugs and self mutilate to make themselves feel temporarily better, how is it love to tell them it’s ok to abuse drugs and self mutilate?" Follows the red herring and straw man fallacy. You're saying that because I apparently believe it's fine to tell women it's okay to have an abortion, it must be okay to tell people of trauma to cut and mutilate as a method of coping. I never said that I was pro-choice. And, we're not talking about people who cut or mutilate because of trauma. We're discussing abortion as a response to trauma, which, although my heart bleeds for these people, these are two very different topics. I don't support abortion. I also don't support telling people that aren't Christian that it's a sin as if that changes anything. It doesn't. If it does, then abortion should be non existent. I also don't support telling people who are aware that it's a sin that it's a sin, because that would be quite literally preaching to the choir.
6. Telling people that their committing a sin is not an act of love, it's an act of pointing the obvious, which helps no one. And it helps even less people when the people you're talking to aren't even Christian to begin with. Providing other options for these women other than abortion and trying to help them emotionally, physically, financially, etc. is, however, an act of love.
"If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:16)
If we just tell people that abortion is a sin, then what exactly are we accomplishing?

Conclusion
I don't support abortion. I think it's wrong, and I think it's sad that many people are brought to the point that they even consider it, let alone go through with it.
I've been in too many pro-choice pro-life arguments, and I can tell you that I have heard it all. Every argument and rebuttal, either Christian or secular, I've heard it all. But, in the midst of all the disagreements, I very rarely hear people talk about solutions. People are so busy pushing what they believe, that very little people are trying to actual solve the problem at its root and ask the most basic question: Why do women have abortions. When you do that, you come to a few reasons.
1. Finances.
2. Medical reasons.
3. They were forced by family.
4. Very rare, but rape/trauma.
5. Ignorance
so what could be some possible solutions.
1. Maybe financial aid?
2. 3 years ago, doctors came up with a successful artificial womb that held a lamb. Maybe
this could be a viable option for women who can't or don't want to carry the baby to full term.
3. Try to raise community efficacy through programs for these girls.
4. See number 2. Another option would be counseling, because, with the right mindset, there are
girls who went through with the pregnancy even though they had been victimized. This feminist website agrees,
even stating that abortion as a result of rape is "misdirected anger". And I agree.
These other women share their own stories of trauma and how the results of their traumatic experience saved them.
5. A proper sex education. For goodness sakes, sex isn't something so taboo that it shouldn't be taught professionally in middle schools, when bodies are changing and kids are hormonal like crazy. There's a good video that talks about the problems with America's sex education system.

So do I support abortion? Not at all. Would I have an abortion, as tempting as it may be considering my situation (I'm trying to get into a male dominated career as a police officer, not the ideal place for mothers), absolutely not. My mother was told that she would die if she had my siblings, but she had them anyway and they're all happy and healthy.
But would I judge someone for having an abortion? Of course not. Would I blame them for making a tough decision and making a decision I wouldn't make? Nope. Because I'm not called to judge, or to throw in my two sense when nobody asked. All I could do is pray for them, help them as best as I could with real solutions, and hope that society can finally wake up, stop fighting with each other, and fight for a world where abortion is the last thing that doctors recommend to these women.
 
I apologize if I passed judgement on you. It is not my intention to try and speculate what kind of person you are, but only to respond to you with facts and, if possible, reason. I'm also afraid that the more I respond to these posts, the further away I'm getting from my main argument, so let me clarify a few points:
1. I understand that abortion is a sin from a biblical standpoint.
2. I also understand that telling someone who isn't Christian that abortion is murder and a sin from a biblical standpoint is fruitless. I know, because I've had these discussions before, and the response I typically get is "it's just a clump of cells", to which I normally reply with "tell that to a woman who just had a miscarriage". Regardless, people still believe what they want to believe.
3. I am not trying to tell women who have abortions that "it was okay," I'm trying to fight for other options so that abortion isn't the first option doctors give women in unwanted pregnancies. That way, there are less abortions, and women have more options. Everyone wins.
4. The fact that women will be harmed further by abortion is inaccurate. In professional clinics (at least in the US), side effects are rare. And emotionally, women typically feel relief after an abortion. Any negative feelings a woman feels after the abortion aren't usually because of the abortion itself. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but those are the facts. That's why I find it more effective to try and find other options, rather than just tell people it's murder and a sin.
5. "Some trauma victims (not only limited to rape trauma) abuse drugs and self mutilate to make themselves feel temporarily better, how is it love to tell them it’s ok to abuse drugs and self mutilate?" Follows the red herring and straw man fallacy. You're saying that because I apparently believe it's fine to tell women it's okay to have an abortion, it must be okay to tell people of trauma to cut and mutilate as a method of coping. I never said that I was pro-choice. And, we're not talking about people who cut or mutilate because of trauma. We're discussing abortion as a response to trauma, which, although my heart bleeds for these people, these are two very different topics. I don't support abortion. I also don't support telling people that aren't Christian that it's a sin as if that changes anything. It doesn't. If it does, then abortion should be non existent. I also don't support telling people who are aware that it's a sin that it's a sin, because that would be quite literally preaching to the choir.
6. Telling people that their committing a sin is not an act of love, it's an act of pointing the obvious, which helps no one. And it helps even less people when the people you're talking to aren't even Christian to begin with. Providing other options for these women other than abortion and trying to help them emotionally, physically, financially, etc. is, however, an act of love.
"If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:16)
If we just tell people that abortion is a sin, then what exactly are we accomplishing?

Conclusion
I don't support abortion. I think it's wrong, and I think it's sad that many people are brought to the point that they even consider it, let alone go through with it.
I've been in too many pro-choice pro-life arguments, and I can tell you that I have heard it all. Every argument and rebuttal, either Christian or secular, I've heard it all. But, in the midst of all the disagreements, I very rarely hear people talk about solutions. People are so busy pushing what they believe, that very little people are trying to actual solve the problem at its root and ask the most basic question: Why do women have abortions. When you do that, you come to a few reasons.
1. Finances.
2. Medical reasons.
3. They were forced by family.
4. Very rare, but rape/trauma.
5. Ignorance
so what could be some possible solutions.
1. Maybe financial aid?
2. 3 years ago, doctors came up with a successful artificial womb that held a lamb. Maybe
this could be a viable option for women who can't or don't want to carry the baby to full term.
3. Try to raise community efficacy through programs for these girls.
4. See number 2. Another option would be counseling, because, with the right mindset, there are
girls who went through with the pregnancy even though they had been victimized. This feminist website agrees,
even stating that abortion as a result of rape is "misdirected anger". And I agree.
These other women share their own stories of trauma and how the results of their traumatic experience saved them.
5. A proper sex education. For goodness sakes, sex isn't something so taboo that it shouldn't be taught professionally in middle schools, when bodies are changing and kids are hormonal like crazy. There's a good video that talks about the problems with America's sex education system.

So do I support abortion? Not at all. Would I have an abortion, as tempting as it may be considering my situation (I'm trying to get into a male dominated career as a police officer, not the ideal place for mothers), absolutely not. My mother was told that she would die if she had my siblings, but she had them anyway and they're all happy and healthy.
But would I judge someone for having an abortion? Of course not. Would I blame them for making a tough decision and making a decision I wouldn't make? Nope. Because I'm not called to judge, or to throw in my two sense when nobody asked. All I could do is pray for them, help them as best as I could with real solutions, and hope that society can finally wake up, stop fighting with each other, and fight for a world where abortion is the last thing that doctors recommend to these women.

If I was trying to discourage non-Christian women from abortion, I would obviously say it is harmful rather than it is sinful since they have no concept of what sin is. Sin is indeed harmful anyway so I make the same point across regardless. If they were Christians I would use both terms. Offering solutions is important, but so is discouraging women from abortion.

That said, some posters (including me) did offer some solutions, but you’ve never really addressed them.
 
I apologize if I passed judgement on you. It is not my intention to try and speculate what kind of person you are, but only to respond to you with facts and, if possible, reason. I'm also afraid that the more I respond to these posts, the further away I'm getting from my main argument, so let me clarify a few points:
1. I understand that abortion is a sin from a biblical standpoint.
2. I also understand that telling someone who isn't Christian that abortion is murder and a sin from a biblical standpoint is fruitless. I know, because I've had these discussions before, and the response I typically get is "it's just a clump of cells", to which I normally reply with "tell that to a woman who just had a miscarriage". Regardless, people still believe what they want to believe.
3. I am not trying to tell women who have abortions that "it was okay," I'm trying to fight for other options so that abortion isn't the first option doctors give women in unwanted pregnancies. That way, there are less abortions, and women have more options. Everyone wins.
4. The fact that women will be harmed further by abortion is inaccurate. In professional clinics (at least in the US), side effects are rare. And emotionally, women typically feel relief after an abortion. Any negative feelings a woman feels after the abortion aren't usually because of the abortion itself. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but those are the facts. That's why I find it more effective to try and find other options, rather than just tell people it's murder and a sin.
5. "Some trauma victims (not only limited to rape trauma) abuse drugs and self mutilate to make themselves feel temporarily better, how is it love to tell them it’s ok to abuse drugs and self mutilate?" Follows the red herring and straw man fallacy. You're saying that because I apparently believe it's fine to tell women it's okay to have an abortion, it must be okay to tell people of trauma to cut and mutilate as a method of coping. I never said that I was pro-choice. And, we're not talking about people who cut or mutilate because of trauma. We're discussing abortion as a response to trauma, which, although my heart bleeds for these people, these are two very different topics. I don't support abortion. I also don't support telling people that aren't Christian that it's a sin as if that changes anything. It doesn't. If it does, then abortion should be non existent. I also don't support telling people who are aware that it's a sin that it's a sin, because that would be quite literally preaching to the choir.
6. Telling people that their committing a sin is not an act of love, it's an act of pointing the obvious, which helps no one. And it helps even less people when the people you're talking to aren't even Christian to begin with. Providing other options for these women other than abortion and trying to help them emotionally, physically, financially, etc. is, however, an act of love.
"If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?" (James 2:16)
If we just tell people that abortion is a sin, then what exactly are we accomplishing?

Conclusion
I don't support abortion. I think it's wrong, and I think it's sad that many people are brought to the point that they even consider it, let alone go through with it.
I've been in too many pro-choice pro-life arguments, and I can tell you that I have heard it all. Every argument and rebuttal, either Christian or secular, I've heard it all. But, in the midst of all the disagreements, I very rarely hear people talk about solutions. People are so busy pushing what they believe, that very little people are trying to actual solve the problem at its root and ask the most basic question: Why do women have abortions. When you do that, you come to a few reasons.
1. Finances.
2. Medical reasons.
3. They were forced by family.
4. Very rare, but rape/trauma.
5. Ignorance
so what could be some possible solutions.
1. Maybe financial aid?
2. 3 years ago, doctors came up with a successful artificial womb that held a lamb. Maybe
this could be a viable option for women who can't or don't want to carry the baby to full term.
3. Try to raise community efficacy through programs for these girls.
4. See number 2. Another option would be counseling, because, with the right mindset, there are
girls who went through with the pregnancy even though they had been victimized. This feminist website agrees,
even stating that abortion as a result of rape is "misdirected anger". And I agree.
These other women share their own stories of trauma and how the results of their traumatic experience saved them.
5. A proper sex education. For goodness sakes, sex isn't something so taboo that it shouldn't be taught professionally in middle schools, when bodies are changing and kids are hormonal like crazy. There's a good video that talks about the problems with America's sex education system.

So do I support abortion? Not at all. Would I have an abortion, as tempting as it may be considering my situation (I'm trying to get into a male dominated career as a police officer, not the ideal place for mothers), absolutely not. My mother was told that she would die if she had my siblings, but she had them anyway and they're all happy and healthy.
But would I judge someone for having an abortion? Of course not. Would I blame them for making a tough decision and making a decision I wouldn't make? Nope. Because I'm not called to judge, or to throw in my two sense when nobody asked. All I could do is pray for them, help them as best as I could with real solutions, and hope that society can finally wake up, stop fighting with each other, and fight for a world where abortion is the last thing that doctors recommend to these women.

That said, I get your point that not all women have the choices or right guidance to avoid abortion altogether, and not all solutions are viable in every situation, but to those women who do have the choices to do otherwise and have alternative solutions, I see no reason to not persuade them to seek alternatives.

Did I say to condemn those women who had no choice but to abort? No, to these women there is a chance of forgiveness from God, who in His grace does consider their circumstances. If these women are willing to come to God in repentance and hold onto faith in Jesus, they will still be saved and forgiven for their sins. So the ultimate solution for these women is the Gospel.
 
That said, I get your point that not all women have the choices or right guidance to avoid abortion altogether, and not all solutions are viable in every situation, but to those women who do have the choices to do otherwise and have alternative solutions, I see no reason to not persuade them to seek alternatives.

Did I say to condemn those women who had no choice but to abort? No, to these women there is a chance of forgiveness from God, who in His grace does consider their circumstances. If these women are willing to come to God in repentance and hold onto faith in Jesus, they will still be saved and forgiven for their sins. So the ultimate solution for these women is the Gospel.

But what about the women who reject God? Don't you think that their children deserve as much as a chance as women who do see God as an option? My outlook is more utilitarian, that I want to see if there's an option that saves as many lives possible. I see every reason to try and persuade them to seek an alternative aside from abortion, and those alternatives need to be cheap yet cost effective, and readily available to anyone who needs it. And some of these alternatives can have a relatively easy fix. All I'm saying is that it doesn't hurt to try.
I'm not saying that you're being judgmental, and I know that these women are in God's grace. But the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of these women decided that there is no God, so to try and use the Gospel to convince them to not have an abortion doesn't make sense. But driving home other alternatives that are better than abortion may just be the solution.
 
What is the forum's stance on abortion?

Can it be justified in the last semester?


Alan
Abortion is unacceptable in any means . Life is God's gift to the world and should not be taken lightly.

All life is greater than any death

This was a phrase given to me by the Holy Spirit, and it's something that I have lived My Life by.

There are no exceptions with abortion even if it is in Saving the mother's life. We are not the ones to make the Judgment whether to take a life or give a life where abortion is concerned.

Jesus himself was adopted by Joseph it should stand to reason that children have the opportunity to be adopted as well
 
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