What is the forum's stance on abortion?

[Sue D.]

WE might want to consider something. Abortion is Murder -- no matter if a person is a believer or not. Non-saved and saved Alike are sentenced to prison even death penalty for 1st degree murder. And abortion Is premeditated murder. No one accidentally ends the life of an unborn child. Now Misscarriage is entirely different. But we're talking about man-made aborting of a living baby. And Lots of babies are born really early and Still survive in this 'outside' world.

I've given birth to 4 babies. Life is felt very early on. A heart beat is heard by the dr. No question as to life being present.

And mother's who's lives are threatened by pregnancy -- they do Anything needed to preserve that unborn life within them.

I can't believe what I read "IF a Christian wishes to oppose abortion" I should sincerely Hope that they Would oppose it.

Unless a woman / teen is raped or a victim of incest -- she is an unwilling participant in sexual intercourse. Otherwise -- it Always takes two to get a female pregnant. The situation is Allowed to take place. The guy is as at fault for the pregnancy as the gal is. So -- the parents-to-be need to take responsibility for Their actions and Not kill the product of their ill-advised activities.

You guys Are the responsible parties in the pregnancy. If You don't want to be a father in 9 months or less -- Don't put yourself inside of 'her'.

Judgement is brought upon yourselves for Your lack of self-control -- People CAN live Without sex. It's Not like being deprived of water or food.

Abortion clinics Should be against the law. There Does need to be Biblical ethics and morality taught and followed.

 

[brighthouse98]

I am Pro life. I do not find it needed to judge what others do,except if they decide upon ending a child life,I do not want my taxes to go to it! ( Mark 2:7) Let them pay for it themselves. Some call this murder,I understand this view,but there are a couple of points I would like to make for others to consider.

1. If the doctor says to me we cannot save both lives,either the child inside your wife will die,or your wife. If she chooses to be sacrificed,I would not allow this!! For her body is not her own!! It is also mine!( 1 Cor 7:4) We can always have another child,so I would sacrifice the child,notice I did not say murder the child!

2. I my daughter was raped and she did not wish to keep an alien child,( at least to her this is true) I would not let my daughter go through 9 months of hell,if she did not wish to! Again the child would be sacrificed. One last point as to the word sacrificed instead of murder.Abraham was never quoted as to murdering his child when called upon to do so,it was called a sacrifice.

What if they believe God told them to preform this?? ( James 2:21-23) Personally this two points which I made for you to consider for yourself I have witnessed myself in the Church. I cannot judge them brothers and sisters. Many will,but I cannot. Of course much prayer would be needed for either case,because we would have to live the rest of our life with that decision. But is there decision not mine to call.

 

[Sue D.]

Thing is -- you Don't know that 'you can always have another child'.

For one thing -- as long as your wife is conscious and able to make that decision -- you would not be able to 'over-ride' her choice. And I should sincerely hope that you and your wife would realize that that unborn baby Does have a right to his/ her life.

You use the wording 'sacrifice the child' Rather than murder /kill the child. When, in fact -- that babies life is being taken away by Your choice and That is something You would be living with for the rest of Your life. And you're attempting to over-ride your wife's desires for the baby She is carrying -- Could end up ruining your marriage. Your Wife is the one who's been feeling that living, moving baby inside her body for a long time.

If my child -- I have two daughters -- IF one of them Had been raped and became pregnant as a result. That child is Not an 'alien'. A child won't be getting pregnant. It would be a young lady -- it would be how She is reacting to the rape she went through and how it was affecting her emotionally, physically, spiritually. And the parent Could help her understand that the baby inside of her is an innocent child. She Could be and Should be receiving counseling every step of the pregnancy to Keep that developing baby and then put it up for adoption. It would not Have to be 9 months of torture for her. And again , that child would be getting killed -- not your nicy-nice term of 'being sacrificed'.

And you're comparing This with Abraham and Isaac. Other than there Is No comparison. Apples and ground beef. Not even 'oranges'.

CAn't believe you're actually trying to Make such a 'comparison'. For one thing -- IF you remember Correctly -- Abraham Was willing to give his only son back to God. But -- God provided the ram at the last minute. No 'sacrifice' was needed. Abraham didn't Have to end up killing his son.

God won't ever tell a pregnant woman to kill her unborn baby. Even if rape / incest are involved. NEVER. That's a lie from satan. Now -- there Was a situation back in a war -- POW situation. The men and women were in different areas of a camp. The wife had gotten pregnant and when the other women found out, they knew what would happen. When it would be time for her to give birth. The soldiers would tie her legs together to prevent delivery and both would die. So -- in that situation -- it was decided to end her pregnancy -- yes, killing the child inside of her. They were believers who knew that the baby would be with God. And the woman would stand a chance of surviving concentration camp. As it turned out, her husband didn't survive. But she was able to survive and continued on with her life. Now -- chances are that the conditions of life in that camp would not allow her body to survive pregnancy. War is horrible.

Women will go to great lengths to help their unborn baby sustain life until it can safely be born.

And lots of times a rape or incest won't end up pregnant and if they Do -- lots of times they miscarry. But for those who Do end up pregnant. With a young lady -- lots of times -- once that woman feels movement. She feels life and feels a motherly instinct / protective instinct towards that baby.

And many decades ago -- a sister-in-law -- as a teenager had gotten pregnant as a result of incest. She had the baby and it was put up for adoption. The story that was circulated is that she had a boyfriend who got her pregnant . He moved away and she had the baby. When, in fact, it was by their Dad. Their Dad would go after their Mother and attack her. Their older daughter was able to get a job as soon as she was old enough to and was able to get an apartment. The other daughter wasn't so lucky. All the boys in the family got jobs as soon as possible and were gone as soon as possible. Their Mom divorced their Dad early on. She was raising 9 kids on her own. Sometimes life Is ugly. But we don't kill helpless babies. Or we Shouldn't. Every woman who's had an abortion suffers as a result.

And, yes, ugly situations Do come up in churches. And sometimes the choices are not good. People live with the choices they make.

 

[brighthouse98]

You have so much anger in you,sad. Your always so critical of others.Shame when the Word tells us all this!!( Gal 6:1-2!!!)

 

[Sue D.]

You have so much anger in you,sad. Your always so critical of others.Shame when the Word tells us all this!!( Gal 6:1-2!!!)

Why do you feel I have anger in me? ??????? How am I being critical of others???

 

[Bill]

I love how everyone is saying how abortion is wrong and bad and people shouldn't have them. Like, no duh abortion is messed up. The process takes a toll on BOTH parties involved, and although there are many women who feel relieved after the procedure (believe it or not), there are also women who may have regrets. No two cases are the same. But it's because abortion is such a complex issue with so many varying cases that we as a people should look into WHY people are preforming abortions to begin with, and try to solve the problem at it's roots.
One reason that I've found is because of financial instability. Sad truth is that some people can't afford to have another child. What can we do to make family life more affordable?
Another reason is because young people are having unsafe/unprotected sex. Now in a perfect world, telling a hormonal teenager to not have sex because God doesn't like sex before marriage, he'll say "okay understandable have a nice day." But we're not in your perfect world, we're in the real world. And in the real world, sex is not seen as taboo. It's seen as something healthy, something that should be learned about in depth, and I agree with that. There's nothing wrong with sex, even if it's outside the confines of marriage. So sorry guys, but not every one is a christian and is going to follow christian doctrine. And purity culture has shown to do more harm than good, so I don't see how teaching abstinence only education helps anyone.
But teaching these young people about responsibility, about safety, and about all of the risks and how to prevent them. That is a more universal answer that I feel should be explored a bit more. Teaching young people about their own bodies can also serve as a deterrent for those who have abortions as a contraceptive.

If having children is nothing more then just having sex then what's make homosexual activity the norm whatshap having sex with animals the norm let's just have having sex with telephone poles the norm but it is not the normal thing to do and sex is a very gross oversight of what having children is all about in the first place. The concept of sex as you put it belittle men and women it belittles what marriage is and it reduces the view that God has given to us as far as family goes . Intercourse between a husband and wife is something that should be valued , not something that is , let's just do it just cuz it makes us feel good . If men and women rhave Christian nature teach their children the values of having children,

Yes there are a lot of issues but taking them out on The Unborn should not be part of it .few are helping teaching letting the woman go to full term hag aild and then teaching them to give up the child for adoption

I love how everyone is saying how abortion is wrong and bad and people shouldn't have them. Like, no duh abortion is messed up. The process takes a toll on BOTH parties involved, and although there are many women who feel relieved after the procedure (believe it or not), there are also women who may have regrets. No two cases are the same. But it's because abortion is such a complex issue with so many varying cases that we as a people should look into WHY people are preforming abortions to begin with, and try to solve the problem at it's roots.
One reason that I've found is because of financial instability. Sad truth is that some people can't afford to have another child. What can we do to make family life more affordable?
Another reason is because young people are having unsafe/unprotected sex. Now in a perfect world, telling a hormonal teenager to not have sex because God doesn't like sex before marriage, he'll say "okay understandable have a nice day." But we're not in your perfect world, we're in the real world. And in the real world, sex is not seen as taboo. It's seen as something healthy, something that should be learned about in depth, and I agree with that. There's nothing wrong with sex, even if it's outside the confines of marriage. So sorry guys, but not every one is a christian and is going to follow christian doctrine. And purity culture has shown to do more harm than good, so I don't see how teaching abstinence only education helps anyone.
But teaching these young people about responsibility, about safety, and about all of the risks and how to prevent them. That is a more universal answer that I feel should be explored a bit more. Teaching young people about their own bodies can also serve as a deterrent for those who have abortions as a contraceptive.

 

[Bill]

No more voice to text . Lol

But our values of having children should not be deminnished to a level of the aftermath . Whoops , you are pregnant because my timing was off , or that a rubber broke . What does this say about the Gift of Life , that it is only an accident .

But this IS how many pregnancies come about , " unplanned " because we do not value the Gift God has given to us .

It is so rare now when couples will say , we are planning to have children . We are trying for God's Blessings.

Everywhere you go , Sex Sex Sex . Plastered on so many billboards . Society has devalued marriage, "" a union between two people "" Society has devalued the family , individual people "" blacks , whites , euro- Americans , Christians , Muslims "" as if God created all of humanity into separate groups .We are all God's Created children, period . And every one of those Children God holds dear in His Heart

 

[Sue D.]

NYQueens977 -- abortion is killing an unborn baby. You commented that abortion takes a toll on Both parties -- It certainly does -- it Kills one of them. Pregnancy changes a woman's hormones and killing that baby changes those hormones Again. So does delivering that baby. Giving a Live baby to a couple / man-woman couple is the solution.

Men don't get pregnant -- their girlfriend does. The minute the woman gets pregnant -- that's life -- and then the heartbeat can be heard by the stethescope and then movement can be felt by the mother. She feels all the changes taking place in her body. That new life that is totally dependent on Her for Healthy nourishment - protection.

 

[Bill]

NYQueens977 -- abortion is killing an unborn baby. You commented that abortion takes a toll on Both parties -- It certainly does -- it Kills one of them. Pregnancy changes a woman's hormones and killing that baby changes those hormones Again. So does delivering that baby. Giving a Live baby to a couple / man-woman couple is the solution.

Men don't get pregnant -- their girlfriend does. The minute the woman gets pregnant -- that's life -- and then the heartbeat can be heard by the stethescope and then movement can be felt by the mother. She feels all the changes taking place in her body. That new life that is totally dependent on Her for Healthy nourishment - protection.

it takes 3 to make a baby . Man woman and God

 

[PloughBoy]

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Thing is -- you Don't know that 'you can always have another child'.

For one thing -- as long as your wife is conscious and able to make that decision -- you would not be able to 'over-ride' her choice. And I should sincerely hope that you and your wife would realize that that unborn baby Does have a right to his/ her life.

You use the wording 'sacrifice the child' Rather than murder /kill the child. When, in fact -- that babies life is being taken away by Your choice and That is something You would be living with for the rest of Your life. And you're attempting to over-ride your wife's desires for the baby She is carrying -- Could end up ruining your marriage. Your Wife is the one who's been feeling that living, moving baby inside her body for a long time.

If my child -- I have two daughters -- IF one of them Had been raped and became pregnant as a result. That child is Not an 'alien'. A child won't be getting pregnant. It would be a young lady -- it would be how She is reacting to the rape she went through and how it was affecting her emotionally, physically, spiritually. And the parent Could help her understand that the baby inside of her is an innocent child. She Could be and Should be receiving counseling every step of the pregnancy to Keep that developing baby and then put it up for adoption. It would not Have to be 9 months of torture for her. And again , that child would be getting killed -- not your nicy-nice term of 'being sacrificed'.

And you're comparing This with Abraham and Isaac. Other than there Is No comparison. Apples and ground beef. Not even 'oranges'.

CAn't believe you're actually trying to Make such a 'comparison'. For one thing -- IF you remember Correctly -- Abraham Was willing to give his only son back to God. But -- God provided the ram at the last minute. No 'sacrifice' was needed. Abraham didn't Have to end up killing his son.

God won't ever tell a pregnant woman to kill her unborn baby. Even if rape / incest are involved. NEVER. That's a lie from satan. Now -- there Was a situation back in a war -- POW situation. The men and women were in different areas of a camp. The wife had gotten pregnant and when the other women found out, they knew what would happen. When it would be time for her to give birth. The soldiers would tie her legs together to prevent delivery and both would die. So -- in that situation -- it was decided to end her pregnancy -- yes, killing the child inside of her. They were believers who knew that the baby would be with God. And the woman would stand a chance of surviving concentration camp. As it turned out, her husband didn't survive. But she was able to survive and continued on with her life. Now -- chances are that the conditions of life in that camp would not allow her body to survive pregnancy. War is horrible.

Women will go to great lengths to help their unborn baby sustain life until it can safely be born.

And lots of times a rape or incest won't end up pregnant and if they Do -- lots of times they miscarry. But for those who Do end up pregnant. With a young lady -- lots of times -- once that woman feels movement. She feels life and feels a motherly instinct / protective instinct towards that baby.

And many decades ago -- a sister-in-law -- as a teenager had gotten pregnant as a result of incest. She had the baby and it was put up for adoption. The story that was circulated is that she had a boyfriend who got her pregnant . He moved away and she had the baby. When, in fact, it was by their Dad. Their Dad would go after their Mother and attack her. Their older daughter was able to get a job as soon as she was old enough to and was able to get an apartment. The other daughter wasn't so lucky. All the boys in the family got jobs as soon as possible and were gone as soon as possible. Their Mom divorced their Dad early on. She was raising 9 kids on her own. Sometimes life Is ugly. But we don't kill helpless babies. Or we Shouldn't. Every woman who's had an abortion suffers as a result.

And, yes, ugly situations Do come up in churches. And sometimes the choices are not good. People live with the choices they make.

Actually Sue...When one aborts a child they do sacrifice it....Abortion is a direct result of the worship of the god Molloch..Molech if you wish....Baal, Abadon, Apophis, Satan They're all the same person...he demands blood sacrifice of babies, and he always has...So millions of babies are sacrificed to this so called diety every year...What hope do we have as a country with this going on?

 

[Downunder]

Abortion is not only the death of a baby, but also denies all those who may come afterwards - further children and grandchildren.

 

[Brad Huber]

Actually Sue...When one aborts a child they do sacrifice it....Abortion is a direct result of the worship of the god Molloch..Molech if you wish....Baal, Abadon, Apophis, Satan They're all the same person...he demands blood sacrifice of babies, and he always has...So millions of babies are sacrificed to this so called diety every year...What hope do we have as a country with this going on?

Satan has always liked to encourage humans to kill their children. He knows that children are usually more innocent and hence he delights more in the death of those who dont yet belong to him. Back during the time of Israel, it was molloch/molech, but thats just a made up name, like all the rest. Sometimes its his minions that do it, but their master satan is the one who wishes his servants to promote the death of the most innocent. They way they are trying to corrupt the children as early as possible, and promoting abortion, it just increases the anger of the Lord, being held up still till the day of the Lord, and when that happens, the evil people and evil spirits wont have a lot of time for regret till they die, but even after death, they will continue to suffer until the day that the Lord rolls up the universe and creates a new heaven and a new earth. And His elect will work with the Lord with the new heaven and earth.

 

[Bill]

Satan has always liked to encourage humans to kill their children. He knows that children are usually more innocent and hence he delights more in the death of those who dont yet belong to him. Back during the time of Israel, it was molloch/molech, but thats just a made up name, like all the rest. Sometimes its his minions that do it, but their master satan is the one who wishes his servants to promote the death of the most innocent. They way they are trying to corrupt the children as early as possible, and promoting abortion, it just increases the anger of the Lord, being held up still till the day of the Lord, and when that happens, the evil people and evil spirits wont have a lot of time for regret till they die, but even after death, they will continue to suffer until the day that the Lord rolls up the universe and creates a new heaven and a new earth. And His elect will work with the Lord with the new heaven and earth.

May the Love of Jesus fill us.

That Day, the Day of the Lord. So close now , closer than most know or care to believe.

Many things will happen in rapid succession. The army from the north will march on Israel , " as they come on " it is written . As they step into Israel. It will happen.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- one thing about this Forum -- ya never know what 'concept's are going to 'pop up'. Referring to Brad Hubers' comments.

 

[Bill]

Well -- one thing about this Forum -- ya never know what 'concept's are going to 'pop up'. Referring to Brad Hubers' comments.

Brad is right , that the devil only wants the distruction of family. The very Institution that God has ordained for us

 

[Sue D.]

It's the subject of abortion that I'm talking about. Women who purposely kill their unborn babies and doctors who allow that to happen.

The reference to the Old Testament sacrificing of young Children to the various 'gods' -- Molech being one of them. Was looking that up.. Back in various cultures believed that killing children, offering them up as a sacrifice would end a drought or some other devistating thing in nature. It was a very emotional time for the parents, but they believed their children would continue to live on. It was children around 6 yrs. of age who already had some painful illness or deformity who were offered. That paid was supposed to be an added significant emphasis to the 'offering'. The person doing the offering had been known to inflict pain to the child if necessary. To pacify the 'gods' -- very sad / sick.

Very different from aborting babies.

And the comment about 'the elect will work with the Lord in creating the new heaven and new earth."

And "until the day that the Lord rolls up the universe and creates a new heaven and new earth."

That's not what Revelation 21:1 - 2 says "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. vs 2, Then, I , John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride for her husband."

And, yes, satan Does want to destroy the family as God ordained it. Through homosexuality / STD's / the effect that abortion has on a woman both physically and emotionally.

 

[Brad Huber]

It's the subject of abortion that I'm talking about. Women who purposely kill their unborn babies and doctors who allow that to happen.

The reference to the Old Testament sacrificing of young Children to the various 'gods' -- Molech being one of them. Was looking that up.. Back in various cultures believed that killing children, offering them up as a sacrifice would end a drought or some other devistating thing in nature. It was a very emotional time for the parents, but they believed their children would continue to live on. It was children around 6 yrs. of age who already had some painful illness or deformity who were offered. That paid was supposed to be an added significant emphasis to the 'offering'. The person doing the offering had been known to inflict pain to the child if necessary. To pacify the 'gods' -- very sad / sick.

Very different from aborting babies.

And the comment about 'the elect will work with the Lord in creating the new heaven and new earth."

And "until the day that the Lord rolls up the universe and creates a new heaven and new earth."

That's not what Revelation 21:1 - 2 says "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. vs 2, Then, I , John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride for her husband."

And, yes, satan Does want to destroy the family as God ordained it. Through homosexuality / STD's / the effect that abortion has on a woman both physically and emotionally.

Rolls up the heavens and the earth = First heaven and earth passed away

Does it bother you that I dont print it exactly as its stated in scripture?

In both ancient Israel and now, the innocent are killed, difference is age is not much.
1. In ancient Israel, there would be a statue of Molech, it was pretty high, the priest would place the child in the outstreched hands of the idol while a fire was stoked just below. I was never there of course, but I read that the children were bound alive and burned alive. Makes their crops grow better supposedly as I read. If times were hard, you sacrificed a child, one less mouth to feed while encouraging more food. Disgusting! Evil!!

2. Now in abortion clinics, a living child, supposedly safe inside the womb is torn into pieces while alive and pulled out piece by piece. Disgusting! Evil!!

Would you like the info in some other way that pleases you more?

 

[Bill]

Rolls up the heavens and the earth = First heaven and earth passed away

Does it bother you that I dont print it exactly as its stated in scripture?

In both ancient Israel and now, the innocent are killed, difference is age is not much.
1. In ancient Israel, there would be a statue of Molech, it was pretty high, the priest would place the child in the outstreched hands of the idol while a fire was stoked just below. I was never there of course, but I read that the children were bound alive and burned alive. Makes their crops grow better supposedly as I read. If times were hard, you sacrificed a child, one less mouth to feed while encouraging more food. Disgusting! Evil!!

2. Now in abortion clinics, a living child, supposedly safe inside the womb is torn into pieces while alive and pulled out piece by piece. Disgusting! Evil!!

Would you like the info in some other way that pleases you more?

No thanks , i see it in my mind as my heart weeps.

 

[Bill]

It's the subject of abortion that I'm talking about. Women who purposely kill their unborn babies and doctors who allow that to happen.

The reference to the Old Testament sacrificing of young Children to the various 'gods' -- Molech being one of them. Was looking that up.. Back in various cultures believed that killing children, offering them up as a sacrifice would end a drought or some other devistating thing in nature. It was a very emotional time for the parents, but they believed their children would continue to live on. It was children around 6 yrs. of age who already had some painful illness or deformity who were offered. That paid was supposed to be an added significant emphasis to the 'offering'. The person doing the offering had been known to inflict pain to the child if necessary. To pacify the 'gods' -- very sad / sick.

Very different from aborting babies.

And the comment about 'the elect will work with the Lord in creating the new heaven and new earth."

And "until the day that the Lord rolls up the universe and creates a new heaven and new earth."

That's not what Revelation 21:1 - 2 says "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. vs 2, Then, I , John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride for her husband."

And, yes, satan Does want to destroy the family as God ordained it. Through homosexuality / STD's / the effect that abortion has on a woman both physically and emotionally.

It is murder any way you want to say it.

To deprive a human to grow in the glory of God . It is the greatest offense .

All the excuses made , can not grasp what is lost