What to expect in Hell

[KingJ]

Sure, that's what God wants. However, man rebelled and fell under control of Satan. Man was destined to death. God sent Christ as a ransom to buy back mankind. However, man is still gonna die. God reaches out His hand so man doesn't have to die. The choice is up to man.

Man has never been under the control of satan. Another literal reading that should not be read literally. Satan would kill us all. He doesn't because he cant, because God protects us all. Nobody, literally nobody alive is ''under the control of satan''. Fact.

Do you believe God knows from birth, who will go to hell and who won't?

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- We're not talking about a human being as a Judge -- we're talking about God -- He is the only Righteous judge.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. "

@Butch5 -- God's Word tells everyone very clearly His plan , His way for all of us to have eternal life in heaven. So there is no 'bait and switch'. That which sends a person to hell is rejecting God's Way to stay out of there.

@KingJ -- Satan Would like lots of company in hell. Well -- He Does reach out to 'us' in the form of the Holy Spirit's convicting power in our heart. And, yes, God alone Does know who will and who won't accept His Son as their personal Savior.
On Our part -- we either accept or reject His way for our salvation. No one does Anything to earn their own salvation.

So - yes - free will to accept or reject. God does not force salvation on anyone. There Are those who believe that a person has no real choice in their salvation. IF God chooses believers from the beginning -- why provide a Savior for all of us. And there are those who say that the blood of Christ was only sufficient for the elect. There are two sides to the coin. On the One side -- God knows exactly who will and who won't -- On the Other side of that same coin. We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. Which Also indicates that not everyone Will listen. And there Are those who will resist until they are going to die. And Then all the things that believers have shared with them will 'click' and they will die as a believer. That's exactly what happened to my uncle.

We are to obey God by sharing His way of salvation. If it were up to Us -- we'd have the really nice people go to heaven and the really Bad people in hell. And That would be a works-based salvation. And we all know that salvation is placing our faith in the blood of Jesus Christ -- His death, burial and bodily resurrection. That His blood shed for us is all that's needed. Upon a person's salvation -- God sees us through that shed blood -- just as if we'd never sinned -- justification.

It's Good to have a brain that works and a heart that accepts. Every person needs to be able to understand right from wrong and realize that they have sinned and need The Savior , Jesus Christ. And it's with a person's heart that they believe and then confess unto salvation.

FACT.

 

[Butch5]

Where does it say that God retrieves a person's spirit? Unless you are talking about the Holy Spirit that we received at the moment of our personal salvation. The born-again believer , upon his death or if that person is alive at the coming of Jesus in the sky at the time of the rapture of the Church -- that person will receive a glorified body. Upon their death, they are immediately with Jesus Christ.

The physical body does die and returns to dust.

We're told in Ecclesiastes 12 that when a man dies God's spirit or breath returns to Him. Upon death people are in the grave. No one is with Jesus until the Resurrection.

7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. (Eccl. 12:7 NKJ)

 

[Butch5]

God is just Psalm 25:8. Lethal injection for all criminals is not justice. You truly need to meditate more on the statements you arriving at from your literal interpretation of 'death'. They are truly just shocking. I am certain God is not impressed!

It's the lack of literal interpretation that is causing you problems. We're told what death means from God Himself. He told Adam if he ate from the tree of knowledge, he would die. Then He said, for dust you are and to dust you shall return. That's the death for sin.

If my conclusions are truly shocking, it shows how far off your theology is. Everything I've presented to you is right there in Scripture.

Not if you understand that the torment is simply living with your free will decisions. Luke 13:28 draws a picture of separation being the torment.

Is that definition found anywhere or did you just make it up?

Whats not just is torture (torture is always wicked) or a punishment that does not fit the crime. God is just and rewards all according to what they did Rom 2:6.

Agreed

People who teach annihilation have no clue who God is. People who teach torture have no clue who God is. People who teach God repays evil with evil have no clue who God is.

Many read ''God is RIGHTEOUS in ALL HIS WAYS'' Psalm 145:17 as '''God is evil'' or ''God is demented'' or ''God is good and evil''.

Just shocking!

That's a rather broad statement. However, I'll go back to what I said before about presuppositions. You've got your own presupposition of what Just means and you're imposing it on the argument. As I said before. the Bible tells us that God is good. It tells us that God is just, and God tells us, though David, that the wicked will be no more. It logically follows that good and just can incorporate the idea of the wicked being no more.

Since you keep saying this is unjust and that is unjust, why don't you define what just means to you and show us how aligns with Scripture.

 

[Butch5]

Man has never been under the control of satan. Another literal reading that should not be read literally. Satan would kill us all. He doesn't because he cant, because God protects us all. Nobody, literally nobody alive is ''under the control of satan''. Fact.

Do you believe God knows from birth, who will go to hell and who won't?

I think this is a problem for you, "Another literal reading that should not be read literally". Do you just say whatever doesn't fit your theology isn't literal? You may want to debate that with Paul.

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:1 (Col. 1:13 KJV)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (Heb. 2:14 KJV)

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,1
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.1 (2 Tim. 2:22-26 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

@KingJ -- We're not talking about a human being as a Judge -- we're talking about God -- He is the only Righteous judge.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. "

@Butch5 -- God's Word tells everyone very clearly His plan , His way for all of us to have eternal life in heaven. So there is no 'bait and switch'. That which sends a person to hell is rejecting God's Way to stay out of there.

@KingJ -- Satan Would like lots of company in hell. Well -- He Does reach out to 'us' in the form of the Holy Spirit's convicting power in our heart. And, yes, God alone Does know who will and who won't accept His Son as their personal Savior.
On Our part -- we either accept or reject His way for our salvation. No one does Anything to earn their own salvation.

So - yes - free will to accept or reject. God does not force salvation on anyone. There Are those who believe that a person has no real choice in their salvation. IF God chooses believers from the beginning -- why provide a Savior for all of us. And there are those who say that the blood of Christ was only sufficient for the elect. There are two sides to the coin. On the One side -- God knows exactly who will and who won't -- On the Other side of that same coin. We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. Which Also indicates that not everyone Will listen. And there Are those who will resist until they are going to die. And Then all the things that believers have shared with them will 'click' and they will die as a believer. That's exactly what happened to my uncle.

We are to obey God by sharing His way of salvation. If it were up to Us -- we'd have the really nice people go to heaven and the really Bad people in hell. And That would be a works-based salvation. And we all know that salvation is placing our faith in the blood of Jesus Christ -- His death, burial and bodily resurrection. That His blood shed for us is all that's needed. Upon a person's salvation -- God sees us through that shed blood -- just as if we'd never sinned -- justification.

It's Good to have a brain that works and a heart that accepts. Every person needs to be able to understand right from wrong and realize that they have sinned and need The Savior , Jesus Christ. And it's with a person's heart that they believe and then confess unto salvation.

FACT.

Sue, God has revealed His plan. Sadly, many Christians have replaced it with the Greek hope of an eternity in Heaven. That's not God's plan.

 

[gaviria.christian]

God is just Psalm 25:8 and rewards all according to their works Rom 2:6. There is no just judge on the planet that sentences all sinners to a lethal injection. Fact.

Maybe a person that has just been released from a psyche ward before their release date and now gets a job as a judge. Sure, he will. Is that who you believe God is?

The true punishment of the wicked is cessation of existence, forever. There is never a "release date" from the state of non existence. And the means how this will be accomplished will be through lava, so that the final moments of all disbelievers will be in terrible agony before they finally cease to exist, for the lava will destroy both body and soul.

 

[Sue D.]

@gaviria.christian -- if a person ceases to exist -- they don't feel or think or do Anything. A non-existence -- why would That be a punishment? And where does your lava come into it? God's Word -- book of Revelation says non-believers will be thrown or placed into the lake of fire and brimstone and That will last forever. Total darkness whailing / knashing of teeth. And yes, terrible agony for sure -- and Forever.

Normal fire Does destroy a body -- well -- there's parts of a skelaton remaining sometimes. But a person dies from smoke inhalation before the fire actually gets to them.

Maybe you're equating the brimstone with lava?

It would be like someone being thrown into a bbq pit. and staying there suffering and Not dying.

In our human experience a fire eventually burns itself out. And we have fire-fighters ready with something to extinguish flames.

And Revelation Also tells us that all of this horrendous condition is really only meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet. And the non-believer Will also end up there as per Revelation.

And I suspect that lots of non-believers -- people who really have a thing against God for whatever reason -- figure they can endure a little bit of real pain for a short time because after That they will not exist / feel anything any more.

And satan Wants them to continue thinking that way -- cause he knows that That isn't reality at all. Satan Wants lots of company to suffering forever right along with him. But once the human non-believer discovered the Real Truth -- they Can't leave -- they are their Forever.

And That's why God's Word Warns us Now as to what's Really going to happen. No One Has To end up there. We Do have the other alternative -- Heaven. And that will Also last forever.

 

[Sue D.]

@Butch5 -- born-again believers Do have that hope of heaven waiting for us. It's not a 'hope it will really happen' type of 'hope'. It's a 'looking forward To' the future heaven that God has promised.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5 -- born-again believers Do have that hope of heaven waiting for us. It's not a 'hope it will really happen' type of 'hope'. It's a 'looking forward To' the future heaven that God has promised.

No Sue, they don't. That is Greek philosophy. There is nothing in Scripture that says people go to Heaven when they did. The Christian hope is the Kingdom of God, not Heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

@Butch5 -- the Kingdom of God IS 'heaven' and Will be the New Jerusalem which God, Himself, will bring down from heaven. as per Rev. 21 :1-4.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5 -- the Kingdom of God IS 'heaven' and Will be the New Jerusalem which God, Himself, will bring down from heaven. as per Rev. 21 :1-4.

The Kingdom of God is not Heaven. The Jews had the Kingdom. Jesus said it would be taken from them and given to others.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. (Matt. 21:42-45 KJV)

The Jews surely weren't in Heaven. As I said, there is nothing in the Scriptures that says people go to Heaven when they die. The idea of ascending into the Heavens was taught by Plato and others and was a popular Greek teaching in New Testament times. This teaching is still around today. There are plenty of non believers who believe their loved ones ascend into Heaven when they die. However, this idea isn't found in Scripture.

 

[Sue D.]

Take a look at Acts 1: 9 -12. -- the ascending into heaven by Jesus Christ. It's God's inspired Word. It's taught by God's Word.

 

[Butch5]

Take a look at Acts 1: 9 -12. -- the ascending into heaven by Jesus Christ. It's God's inspired Word. It's taught by God's Word.

Yeah, Jesus ascended to Heaven, but He wasn't dead. However, because Jesus ascended doesn't mean anyone else will. Look at the passage you quoted. They told the apostles that Jesus would return in like manner. There's nothing here about the dead going to Heaven. As I said, there's nothing in Scripture about the dead going to Heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

Butch5 -- Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven After he'd risen from the dead. I just saw what you're trying to say.

Take a look at 2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

 

[B-A-C]

Take a look at 2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

There are of course two questions here. When do we leave the body? Immediately when we die... or on the last day?

John 6:39; "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54; "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24; Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
John 5:25; "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

The second question question is... where is Jesus when this happens? Where does it say He is in heaven?

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:11; Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Even the great white throne judgment will not be in heaven. Verse 11 above says "heaven fled away".

So this leaves the New Jerusalem, and the new Earth... But neither of those are here yet.

John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Acts 2:34; "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

 

[gaviria.christian]

@gaviria.christian -- if a person ceases to exist -- they don't feel or think or do Anything. A non-existence -- why would That be a punishment? And where does your lava come into it? God's Word -- book of Revelation says non-believers will be thrown or placed into the lake of fire and brimstone and That will last forever. Total darkness whailing / knashing of teeth. And yes, terrible agony for sure -- and Forever.

Normal fire Does destroy a body -- well -- there's parts of a skelaton remaining sometimes. But a person dies from smoke inhalation before the fire actually gets to them.

Maybe you're equating the brimstone with lava?

It would be like someone being thrown into a bbq pit. and staying there suffering and Not dying.

In our human experience a fire eventually burns itself out. And we have fire-fighters ready with something to extinguish flames.

And Revelation Also tells us that all of this horrendous condition is really only meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet. And the non-believer Will also end up there as per Revelation.

And I suspect that lots of non-believers -- people who really have a thing against God for whatever reason -- figure they can endure a little bit of real pain for a short time because after That they will not exist / feel anything any more.

And satan Wants them to continue thinking that way -- cause he knows that That isn't reality at all. Satan Wants lots of company to suffering forever right along with him. But once the human non-believer discovered the Real Truth -- they Can't leave -- they are their Forever.

And That's why God's Word Warns us Now as to what's Really going to happen. No One Has To end up there. We Do have the other alternative -- Heaven. And that will Also last forever.

Ceasing to exist is punishment because you are deprived of all life. That is why the wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment. The teaching of eternal punishment is a colossal error that the scriptures do not actually teach. It is based on fantasy and ignorance and misinterpretation of scripture. As such, "hell" will be a lake of lava that will form outside the southern wall of Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, which is Gehenna. There the world will be thrown to die in agony, and be destroyed both body and soul. The lava that will form there will come from Mount Zion, which will form around the mountains of Hebron, and lava will flow from Mount Zion to the north from there, to Jerusalem, and form into a lake, and lava will flow from Mount Zion to the south, burning Yatir Forest in Negev, and a river of water will flow from Mount Zion to the east, to the Dead Sea, and make the Dead Sea living.

 

[KingJ]

FACT.

 

[Butch5]

Butch5 -- Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven After he'd risen from the dead. I just saw what you're trying to say.

Take a look at 2 Corinthians 5:6-9.

I have many times. If you read the passage in context you'll see that it's about the Resurrectiom. In that passage Paul actually refutes your claim where he says he doesn't want to be found naked. He's referencing the Greek teaching that some part of man leaves the body at death.

What's really amazing about this idea that people go to Heaven when they die is that its believed by so many and yet there isn't a single passage of Scripture that says people go to Heaven. It's all by way of inference. One would think that if this was the ultimate goal in life the Bible would at least state it once somewhere. Yet, it's nowhere to be found.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- we Do have John 14:1-6 -- Jesus Christ is in heaven preparing a place for us.

2 Corinthians 5:8 -- going back to the beginning of the chapter -- He's talking about our body / our earthly tent/ -- as something Does happen to that / our body/ we Do have a building from God. (a glorified body) eternal in the heavens.

We'd much rather be in our heavenly home / body/ -- we have a desire for clothes here in this world. We don't want to be found naked. Either physically or spiritually. 'dressed' in Jesus Christ. Then going to vs 8 so we'd rather be absent from This body and be present with the Lord. So in the here and now -- we want to be living in a way that is pleasing to God Because at some point we Will be standing before God giving an account for our lives.

so - the question Would be -- What will we be Doing With Jesus Christ upon our death Or being taken up in the rapture. We will be receiving our new glorified bodies.

That's why born-again believers who have loved ones die from a diseased or broken body say that they are Now enjoying a healed body.

"We" Do have information 'by inference' in God's Word. You've noticed that God doesn't always state things the way we want to hear them.

BTW -- it's Only born-again people that Do go to heaven when they die.