Why does God send people to hell?

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The State of The Dead:-

(Psa 6:5) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?'

(Psa 30:9) 'What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?'

(Psa 31:17) 'Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.'

(Psa 88:11-12) 'Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?'

(Psa 115:17) 'The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.'

(Psa 146:3-4) 'Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.'

(Ecc 9:5-6) 'For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.'

(Ecc 9:10) 'Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.'

(Isa 38:17-19) 'Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.'

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rxlx]

Catholics gave vast money to priests who claimed they could get 'the souls' of dead relatives freed from Purgatory and sent on to heaven.
This is still being taught in various places in America, Canada and elsewhere.

 

[Rhema]

'And all things are of God,
who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and hath given to us (Paul and his fellow-workers)
the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ,
as though God did beseech you by us:
we pray you in Christ's stead,
be ye reconciled to God.
For He hath made Him to be sin for us,
Who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'
(2Cor. 5:18)

Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.

not imputing their trespasses unto them;

Forgiveness by the Father through repentance is indeed the Gospel.

Not sure why it needed to be repeated in different words, though.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.

Says the Holy Spirit and whatsoever he meant.

 

[Rxlx]

Says Paul, whatever he actually meant by all of that.


Forgiveness by the Father through repentance is indeed the Gospel.

Not sure why it needed to be repeated in different words, though.

Blessings,
Rhema

Your semantics need pulling up?

 

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Ref: (2Cor. 5:18) reply#340

Hello there,@Rxlx, @Rhema, @Garee,

I love the fact that God, was 'in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.'
I love the fact that God was 'reconciling us to Himself by Jesus Christ'.
I love the fact that God was 'not imputing their (our) trespasses unto them (us)'
How could we fail to be moved by the words. 'For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin,'
Why? 'that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'

Please do not treat this lightly.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rxlx]

Jessu is GOD's only-begotten son.
His spirit was transferred into Mary's womb in order for him to be born and live as an innocent pure sacrifical lamb upon which all human's sins were placed.
When the lamb died its blood washed away the sins of all who accepted it was the sacrificial lamb.
Obviously the Pharisees and similar refused to accept it and have since paid the price by the pouring out of their own blood millions of times.
This is The Big Picture.
Forget all the subtitles and insertions.

 

[Garee]

Jessu is GOD's only-begotten son.
His spirit was transferred into Mary's womb in order for him to be born and live as an innocent pure sacrifical lamb upon which all human's sins were placed.
When the lamb died its blood washed away the sins of all who accepted it was the sacrificial lamb.
Obviously the Pharisees and similar refused to accept it and have since paid the price by the pouring out of their own blood millions of times.
This is The Big Picture.
Forget all the subtitles and insertions.

I would suggest it was the Christ as the lamb slain from the foundation . The six days the powerful Father did work finishing all the work of salvation .

Demonstrated outwardly thousands of years later in the garden Gethsemane .The dynamic dual the Father and Son . The Father Christ the one with power . . . bruising the heel of the Son of man Jesus crushing the head of the serpent

 

[Rxlx]

I would suggest it was the Christ as the lamb slain from the foundation . The six days the powerful Father did work finishing all the work of salvation .

Demonstrated outwardly thousands of years later in the garden Gethsemane .The dynamic dual the Father and Son . The Father Christ the one with power . . . bruising the heel of the Son of man Jesus crushing the head of the serpent

No. There was nothing sinful in Creation.
The six days of creation were nothing to do with any salvation.

 

[Rhema]

I love the fact that God, was 'in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.'

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

I love the fact that God was 'reconciling us to Himself by Jesus Christ'.

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

I love the fact that God was 'not imputing their (our) trespasses unto them (us)'

Yes, through Jesus' teachings on forgiveness.

How could we fail to be moved by the words. 'For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin,'

Because Jesus never taught this.

Why? 'that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.'

Please do not treat this lightly.

I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.

How can you pay a debt that's been forgiven?

Rhema

 

[Garee]

Because Jesus never taught this.

Of course, Christ working in us taught that a theophany or vision of Melchizedek could not make do. literal dying flesh signified as sinful was needed to put away sin in the flesh.

The outward demonstration the law of Christs powerful faith. "Let here be" and "there was flesh". All flesh dies.

Romans 8:2-4;For the law of the( invisable) Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.;For what the law(Death) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:;That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Introducing the new order or priesthood of believer. male and female prophets sent as apostles no longer after the tribe of Levi destroying all the kingdoms of men.

Psalm 110:3-5Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.;The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

 

[complete]

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

Yes, through Jesus' teachings (his word).

Yes, through Jesus' teachings on forgiveness.

Because Jesus never taught this.

I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.

How can you pay a debt that's been forgiven?

Rhema

'Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:
or else believe me for the very works' sake.'
(Joh 14:10-11)

Hello @Rhema,

The words and works that our Lord did and said were not His own, but the Father's, as you know. Also the doctrines taught by Paul were given to Him by revelation from the risen Christ. They were not his own.

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;'
(Act 26:16)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rhema]

The words and works that our Lord did and said were not His own, but the Father's, as you know.

So these words were Not Jesus' own words?

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me:​

(Luke 22:42 KJV)

I trow not.

And what of these words?

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (FILL IN - FIX). For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all (COMES INTO BEING. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

(Matthew 5:17-19 KJV)

Were these words done away with?

Also the doctrines taught by Paul were given to Him by revelation from the risen Christ. They were not his own.

The doctrines you speak of came from an angel of light calling itself Jesus. Paul even said this.

But why would Jesus need to give Paul direct revelation? Wasn't the gospel taught by the twelve sufficient?

Jesus did not command the disciples to wait around until some guy named Paul was given the "true" gospel.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

The text does not say, "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded Paul." And I would note that the book of Matthew was written after the ministry and epistles of Paul.

But I do realize that most Christians do not accept that the teachings of Paul (during his later ministry) are different from those things which Jesus taught. Please realize that I am NOT rejecting that Jesus was the Son of God, sent to "fix" or reform a Judaism that had gone off the rails. Nor do I reject that God raised him from the dead to prove that his teachings and his teachings alone were Truth. I am an Acts 2:38 Christian, and as such have no need to believe that the Gospel preached by Jesus is insufficient for salvation. Nor do I need to believe that Paul is my teacher, being inerrant in those things which Paul wrote.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached.

Blessings,
Rhema

They were not his own.

Said Paul.

 

[Garee]

So these words were Not Jesus' own words?

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from meLuke 22:42 KJV)

They are words of an apostle's prophets Gods word working in them

 

[Rxlx]

I never treat the teachings of Jesus lightly, nor do I supplant them with the teachings of Paul.


Rhema

But you call Jesus a liar! That is not good. Prepare for a bad Judgment Day.

Revelation 21:8; 'But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.'

 

[Rhema]

But you call Jesus a liar!

Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

 

[complete]

So these words were Not Jesus' own words?​

​

Saying, Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from Me:​

(Luke 22:42 KJV)​

​

​

Blessings,​

Rhema​

'I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses),
and will put My words in His mouth;
and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto My words
which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of Him.
(Deu 18:18-19)

Hello @Rhema, (Ref:- reply #353)

Do we distinguish between the words of our Lord, spoken when teaching, from that spoken at other times, in regard to if they be of the Father or not? I believe that every word uttered by the Lord has importance, and do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are, to whom they are spoken, or the occasion in which they are uttered. All is of God, and nothing recorded lacks relevance or reason.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rxlx]

Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

You called Jesus a liar every time you said Satan isn't ruling Earth right now.

You have serious cognitive dissonance as I've said many times previously.

 

[Garee]

Your unfounded, and uninformed opinion only.
Where have I ever called Jesus a liar?
(No unhinged replies need be made.)
On the contrary, you have denied Christ before men when rejecting the words of Jesus here:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

- Matthew 28:18 KJV

Rhema

Thanks be to God that the book of Revelation is not in our canon - the only canon established by an Apostle.

If you remove that chapter of the book of law then there is no warning not to add or subtract from the perfect sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

Yes all power of the Father was given to the Son of Man jesus that lived in a earthen body of death appointed to die once. It is blasphemy to say His power is of us
2 Corinthians 4:7 ;But we (no power) have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Rhema]

All is of God, and nothing recorded lacks relevance or reason.

Like the Didache or the Gospel of Thomas? What of the Acts of Barnabas?

(I) do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are, to whom they are spoken, or the occasion in which they are uttered.

And yet Jesus said you ought to:

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.​

- Matthew 7:15 KJV

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is (I met him) in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.​

- Matthew 24:24-26 KJV

(I) do not intend distinguishing between them in this way, no matter what the words are,

And if these words contradict the actual teachings of Jesus?

The thing is, you do distinguish, if you ascribe to a canon. But who has selected your canon? How did it develop?

I'm sure you realize that the Roman Catholic Church created the canon that you use, and most would say that these Bishops were guided by God. And yet, why do Protestants believe that God guided the Catholic Bishops in selecting the canon, but did not (or was unable to) guide these very same Bishops to preach an accurate Gospel of Salvation? All I ask is that Protestants (sorry, I'm not one - neither Catholic) recognize the conundrum - the contradiction - in their thinking; in their beliefs.

I believe that every word uttered by the Lord has importance,

I would wholeheartedly agree, both the LOGOS word of God, and the RHEMA word of God. But Paul's words are his own, and he had even given advice from his own thoughts and not that of the "Lord." (Just in case I need to cite this: cf. 1st Cor. 7:12.) Don't you think that we ought to look at the actual words written, and not obfuscate, adulterate or mix concepts via religious emotion? That's how we ended up with this doctrine of Hell.

Do we distinguish between the words of our Lord, spoken when teaching, from that spoken at other times, in regard to if they be of the Father or not?

Of course. Do not many, many people claim to be speaking on behalf of either Jesus or the Father? Look around at all these preachers on TV or YouTube saying "The Lord!" "The Lord!" when it is not of (or from) the Lord?

There is only one LOGOS (Word of God) which is the teachings of Jesus - the bread of the Eucharist (as explained in the Didache). And there is only one RHEMA (Word of God) the direct voice of the Father that speaks directly to you - the Holy Spirit.

'I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses),
and will put My words in His mouth;
and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.
And it shall come to pass,
that whosoever will not hearken unto My words
which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of Him.
(Deu 18:18-19)

I most certainly do not think that the author was speaking about Paul. Do you? There were certain prophecies that Paul attributed to himself, (might you know of these?) but I don't find that this was one of them.

Blessings,
Rhema