Why does God send people to hell?

[KingJ]

@Curtis

@rstrats is actually making a sound point. If God is the creator of all and knows someone's future, it appears that there is no true free will.

For God to be a good God (which He is!!) He has to either not be the creator or not know someone's future.

I better explain this here Free will.

 

[B-A-C]

@rstrats is actually making a sound point. If God is the creator of all and knows someone's future, it appears that there is no true free will.

For God to be a good God (which He is!!) He has to either not be the creator or not know someone's future.

Why? Knowing someone's future is not the same thing as deciding someone's future.
I may know you're going to do something, ( or not do something as the case may be ) but I'm not the one who made you do it.

The thing is, I gave you the opportunity to do it, I gave you the choice. Whether you do it or not, is up to you.

If I take away someone's opportunity to do something, I take away their choice to do it. I am essentially taking away their free-will.

God doesn't send people to hell. People choose to go to hell.

 

[KingJ]

Why? Knowing someone's future is not the same thing as deciding someone's future.

If you are the creator, it is.

I may know you're going to do something, ( or not do something as the case may be ) but I'm not the one who made you do it.

If you created all, literally all, you can't escape blame.

The thing is, I gave you the opportunity to do it, I gave you the choice. Whether you do it or not, is up to you.

This statement is correct but that is because you removed a phrase you used above ''God knows what you are going to do''.

If I take away someone's opportunity to do something, I take away their choice to do it. I am essentially taking away their free-will.

Correct.

God doesn't send people to hell. People choose to go to hell.

Correct.

Explaining that that is true when God is omnipotent, omniscient and the creator of all is essential for Christians to do.

As I do here Free will, and not to be rude, but I feel I am correct and that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong . There is only one way to explain true free will and that is to teach that God limit's His omniscience.

 

[rstrats]

God doesn't send people to hell.

Revelation 20:15 seems to disagree.

People choose to go to hell.

No sane person would choose that if they believed - were convinced - that it consisted of being tortured 24/7 for eternity.

 

[B-A-C]

evelation 20:15 seems to disagree.

Where does it mention God in this verse?

No sane person would choose that if they believed - were convinced - that it consisted of being tortured 24/7 for eternity.

Well first, not everyone is as sane as they claim to be. so I agree on that point.
Second, convincing people that hell is real is no easy task. Generally if they don't believe in God, they don't believe in heaven or hell either.
Third, some people's idea hell is ...well.. questionable. I've heard famous actors and musicians say hell is going to big one big party.
We will see.

..and finally, ( there always has to be some controversy, right? )

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Some people who believe in Jesus, will simply never stop practicing lawlessness ( sin ).

 

[B-A-C]

f you are the creator, it is.

why?

If you created all, literally all, you can't escape blame.

why?

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

1Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
Jas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone

 

[KingJ]

Revelation 20:15 seems to disagree.

Correct, God does send people to hell. Both you and @B-A-C are correct. God sends to hell those who choose to go there.

No sane person would choose that if they believed - were convinced - that it consisted of being tortured 24/7 for eternity.

Correct. At the same time I will argue that no good person will stay with God in heaven if He tortures the wicked. The wicked instinctively know that God is good and that torture is impossible. What they don't grasp and this is where @B-A-C is correct, is that hell doesnt need torture to be terrifying.

Torture is always evil as I explain here Discussion on Torture. God is not evil as prophets who knew God better than us clearly tried to explain. David in Psalm 145:17, Job in Job 34:12 and John in 1 John 1:5.

Most Christians have just not meditated on this fact (torture = evil) and considered all scripture on the topic of hell. They usually stop at and or cherry pick those mentioning fire, darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28 gives a reason for weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is separation.

Luke 16:19-31 describes suffering in fire, it seems our spiritual bodies cope much better. And Rom 2:6 makes sessions in fire seem viable.

John 3:19 explains that darkness is a metaphor for evil. Evil will take place in hell. Picture a Democrat run city.

 

[KingJ]

why?

Simple math.

Creator + omniscient (all knowing) = no free will.

If you are all knowing you will know that the being you creating will be evil and not ever repent. As Rom 9 explains He can create from the same lump of clay a vessel unto honour or a vessel unto dishonor.

Now no free will would be perfectly fine if there was no eternal damnation. But there is.

As such when you teach the above equation and add eternal hell, you arrive at a teaching that suggests God is pure evil.

As a Christian, we need to have a valid answer and not dance around the question. Unless we don't care that the unsaved believe God is evil.The unsaved will ask 'how and why' we preach on true free will and a good God when simple math of: Creator + ominsicient + eternal hell = evil.

How would you explain the correct equation? I insert a limited in front of omniscience. As some also correctly teach, God knows all 'there is to know' as opposed to all that can be known. Someone's choice is not something that 'can' be known.

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis

@rstrats is actually making a sound point. If God is the creator of all and knows someone's future, it appears that there is no true free will.

For God to be a good God (which He is!!) He has to either not be the creator or not know someone's future.

I better explain this here Free will.

Just the fact that evil exists proofs all of Gods creators have free will to disobey his will.

 

[KingJ]

Just the fact that evil exists proofs all of Gods creators have free will to disobey his will.

The existence of evil points to free will but does not prove it.

I quote Rom 9 to BAC. God can create a vessel unto honor or dishonor. Would the creation truly have free will or only appear to have?

 

[Curtis]

The existence of evil points to free will but does not prove it.

I quote Rom 9 to BAC. God can create a vessel unto honor or dishonor. Would the creation truly have free will or only appear to have?

If God decided to NOT create anything that he knew would do wickedness then there would be no free will then the human race would not exist.

 

[MedicBravo]

This statement is unscriptural and a 100% assumption by you.

If you read unscriptural things like Dante's inferno or books from people who claim to have travelled to hell you will believe such nonsense.

Yes it is.
God has rules and punishment for breaking those rules.
Heaven has walls and a strict immigration policy.
Those who do NOT repent and change will go to Hell and it will be 100% their fault.

 

[Peter1]

If everyone on the earth is in a fallen state and everyone who has ever existed why would God need to send anyone to hell?Seems to me he doesn't have to he just doesn't raise them up to eternal life.People forget that this is what the bible teaches.So if its true I ask does God send anyone to hell?

 

[Curtis]

It does not take long once a person becomes a new creation in Christ and filled with His Spirit that they are willing to give up their own free will to do the will of God which is far better.

 

[Curtis]

God can create a vessel unto honor or dishonor.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

For a person to become a vessel of "honor" he must first depart from "iniquity". That requires a free will choice.

 

[rstrats]

Where does it mention God in this verse?

So if not one the 3 deities, i.e., the Father, the Son or the Spirit personally doing it, who then will be doing the casting?

 

[B-A-C]

So if not one the 3 deities, i.e., the Father, the Son or the Spirit personally doing it, who then will be doing the casting?

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:49; "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It seems the master doesn't throw them out, other servants ( presumably angels ) do.

 

[rstrats]

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:49; "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It seems the master doesn't throw them out, other servants ( presumably angels ) do.

So, the Son directs the angels to cast them into the lake of fire. Seems like a distinction without a difference.

 

[KingJ]

Yes it is.
God has rules and punishment for breaking those rules.
Heaven has walls and a strict immigration policy.
Those who do NOT repent and change will go to Hell and it will be 100% their fault.

No disagreement, but that is a separate matter.

 

[KingJ]

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

For a person to become a vessel of "honor" he must first depart from "iniquity". That requires a free will choice.

Curtis, I agree with you but you are missing the point. See my post # 48 to BAC.