The war within

[KingJ]

How do you justify your post in light of the exhortations to... "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" ((1 Peter 3:15)

His perfection, not mine.

If I can't defend my hope, or laud the Lord whose death and resurrection accomplished what it set forth to do, without being labeled as 'boastful', then I will allow it to happen.

Jesus did not die so that you can be '''perfect'''. He died so that an imperfect person can be perfect to God. You are literally missing the boat.

Call me whatever you want, but don't forget the exhortations I, and others, deliver.

I commended you for making us all re-visit our salvation. Paul says we should do it often. It is the only thing I receive from your posts. It is not a compliment to you though. As your full message is '''your''' righteousness. Our righteousness. That is not Christianity.

If you continue to serve sin...you will perish..

I fight sin and fail often. That is not serving sin. With your take of the gospel we will all perish. Including you!!.

A way has been offered by God for us to "cease from sin". Take it or leave it.

Is that how you view a relationship with Jesus? Like a piece of candy on the table. Take it or leave it.

I preach freedom from sin, and you call that preaching "sin". "How ironic"?

You preach self righteousness. Yes, that is sin. It's not ironic. You saying you are without sin, when you twist scripture and embarrass the gospel message, is ironic.

 

[amadeus2]

What you imply is that grape vines CAN bring forth figs.

No, what I say is that followers of Jesus are usually double minded when they begin their walk with God. This is not good and needs to be corrected. That is happens is the reason James writes about it so specifically.

If men will kill the old man and his Adamic nature, and be reborn of Godly, incorruptible seed, he will no longer bring forth Adamic fruit.

I agree that when the old man is finally and completely dead he will no longer bring forth adamic fruit.

 

[Bendito]

I know it is true.
If one "slips all the time", it is habitual.
Why not "resist the devil and he will flee from you", (James 4:7), all the time?

Oh how I wish you could know the joy of oneness with God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Sin separates man from that joy.
Jesus provided the way to join Him in conquest of sin.

Its interesting how you will take what a person says and twist it to fit your agenda....I said 'Christians slip all the time' meaning it happens to all of us often....We, like children make mistakes, thats how we learn... I did not say 'one Christian slips continually' So you can take 'All the time' to mean Christians, as I said, collectively. I did NOT say Chritians slip all the time individually....

I think I'll step away from this thread before I say something I'll regret.

 

[At Peace]

You don't believe in OSAS, so as that scripture I quoted highlights, I have this against you:
Stop boasting that you are perfect and keep yourself saved.
Stop running down the salvation of others because they are not as perfect as you.
Stop saying you are a god, the devil did that.
Stop saying you are perfect and show us the evidence of it. All anyone has seen / heard of you is internet banter, pride and self righteousness. If you were a perfect person that God says as He did to David ''there is a man I can use for anything'', we would know you before your posts on TJ.
Stop trolling everyone's threads. The A-Z of your contribution in your last 100 posts has been ''I am perfect, only perfect people go to heaven''. Open ONE thread and let everyone know that. Trolling is pride / sin / harassment.

If you aren't interested in serving God without fault...that is on you.
The "uninterested" were given a chance once before. They didn't board the ark, and were destroyed.

I've been reading Jeremiah lately, and I can identify with his sorrow that the Jews wouldn't listen to him before Nebuchadnezzar invaded Judah.
"Nebuchadnezzar" is at the door, KingJ.

 

[At Peace]

No, what I say is that followers of Jesus are usually double minded when they begin their walk with God. This is not good and needs to be corrected. That is happens is the reason James writes about it so specifically.

How is that different from apple seeds bringing forth onions?
Even James wrote..."Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." (James 3:12)
People who decide to walk with God, and then turn back into darkness, manifest that they never left the darkness.

I agree that when the old man is finally and completely dead he will no longer bring forth Adamic fruit.

That happens when a man is baptized into Christ's death and burial, and than "resurrected with Him to walk in newness of life". (Romans 6:3-6)

 

[At Peace]

.
I said 'Christians slip all the time' meaning it happens to all of us often....
I did not say 'one Christian slips continually'
So you can take 'All the time' to mean Christians, as I said, collectively.
I did NOT say Christians slip all the time individually....

?
Our definition of "Christian" differs.

 

[amadeus2]

How is that different from apple seeds bringing forth onions?
Even James wrote..."Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." (James 3:12)
People who decide to walk with God, and then turn back into darkness, manifest that they never left the darkness.


That happens when a man is baptized into Christ's death and burial, and than "resurrected with Him to walk in newness of life". (Romans 6:3-6)

Again you are speaking of the ideal beginning and that which should at be at the end our walk with God. Some people have to walk along their road and learn to correct their errors as they move ahead toward the Light. It would be better to immediately be bathed completely in the Light sooner, but it simply does not always happen that way. God knows the hearts of all of those who are not there yet better than anyone else. He alone is able to fairly stand in judgment of them anywhere along the road that they walk. From what you say it is not identical to your road. We are not all the same part of the Body of Christ, are we?

 

[At Peace]

Again you are speaking of the ideal beginning and that which should at be at the end our walk with God.

Yes, ideal...as opposed to "false".

Some people have to walk along their road and learn to correct their errors as they move ahead toward the Light.

That sounds a lot like 'earning salvation by our works'.

It would be better to immediately be bathed completely in the Light sooner, but it simply does not always happen that way. God knows the hearts of all of those who are not there yet better than anyone else. He alone is able to fairly stand in judgment of them anywhere along the road that they walk. From what you say it is not identical to your road. We are not all the same part of the Body of Christ, are we?

Those not acting in the interest of Christ are not in Christ.
There is no sin in the body of Christ.

 

[Br. Bear]

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it; that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:1-2

 

[amadeus2]

That sounds a lot like 'earning salvation by our works'.


Those not acting in the interest of Christ are not in Christ.
There is no sin in the body of Christ.

Is the Body of Christ complete as of now, or is God still calling people and working with people who have been called, perhaps through the five ministries listed in these verses?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:11-16

God is working on the Body by means of the Holy Spirit through the ministers He has called. It is not fitly joined together yet because the individual parts are not ready yet. There will be no sin in the Body of Christ, but are not some believers who have not yet completely overcome all that needs to be overcome still missing a step by sinning still at times. They should be improving continuously in this, but some are still very much in the process and falling short of what they need to be in the end to be a part.

I do not believer that God instantaneously makes every part of the Body flawless and ready to work perfectly in that Body... although He may do so with some. Rather He has provided through His Son and the Holy Spirit for each person all that is needed to get ready. It is a process. Undoubtedly some parts are ready, especially among those who have already had the dirt thrown over their faces, but others are not... not yet. As we are called to do so, we can and should work as ministers [as per verses quoted] to help them get to the point where they do not need such help. They will be ready to take their proper place in the Body of Christ connected to the Head as well as to other parts by the Holy Spirit.

 

[At Peace]

Is the Body of Christ complete as of now, or is God still calling people and working with people who have been called,

I hope thousands more will turn from the power of satan and unto God. Thousand who will undergo the circumcision done without hands, casting off the flesh. Thousands who will permanently turn from sin and be reborn of incorruptible Godly seed.

I do not believer that God instantaneously makes every part of the Body flawless and ready to work perfectly in that Body... although He may do so with some.

You should make up your mind about which one you believe.

 

[Br. Bear]

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Galatians 6:1

 

[At Peace]

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Galatians 6:1

Did you notice that it is the Spiritual man who is charged with the restoration of the "fleshly" man.
There is no mixing of these natures.
Be one, or be the other.

 

[Dave M]

Did you notice that it is the Spiritual man who is charged with the restoration of the "fleshly" man.
There is no mixing of these natures.
Be one, or be the other.

hey Peace who are some of your teachers you listen to ??

______________________________________________________________________________--

under the mercy and grace of Lord Jesus

 

[At Peace]

hey Peace who are some of your teachers you listen to ??

______________________________________________________________________________--

under the mercy and grace of Lord Jesus

Hello, Dave.
The only teachers I listen to are the apostles and prophets.
Those that have the Spirit of God in them.

When I listen to TV or radio "preachers", I usually count the seconds before they ask for money.
That is what they serve..

 

[amadeus2]

You should make up your mind about which one you believe.

I know where I am in my beliefs. I cannot and do not attempt to speak for others. It is not my job. I guess you think it is yours. That is between you and God.

 

[At Peace]

I know where I am in my beliefs. I cannot and do not attempt to speak for others. It is not my job. I guess you think it is yours. That is between you and God.

I made no mention of "others".
You wrote..."I do not believer that God instantaneously makes every part of the Body flawless and ready to work perfectly in that Body... although He may do so with some."
So you actually DO believe He "instantaneously makes parts of the body flawless and ready to work perfectly in that body".
The "flawless" portion of the equation comes from our rebirth from God's incorruptible seed.
The flawless will grow in grace and knowledge to ever enhance their usefulness to the Lord.
But they start out flawless.
A true repentance from sin will keep them flawless.

 

[Dave M]

@At Peace

are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?

 

[At Peace]

@At Peace

are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?

That is precisely what I'm saying.
Look at 1 John 3:9..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
If we are reborn of God's seed, we cannot bear the fruit of an evil progenitor.
Figs and grapes cannot come from the same tree/vine.
God is the root.
Jesus is the vine.
We are the branches.
How can evil come forth from a holy branch?

We have been given the gift of repentance: an ability to turn from sin. (Acts 11:18)
Partaking of that gift makes us as ex-sinners.
We have also been given the gift of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
So. we are ex-sinners who have been washed by the blood of Christ.
God will give the gift of the Holy Ghost to all those who have the faith to partake of these gifts.
God has thus made us cleaned, ex-sinners who have the Holy Ghost in us.
Perfect.
Only the manifestation of a false repentance can change that.

 

[B-A-C]

are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?

That is precisely what I'm saying.

Hmmm... kind of takes Calvinism to a new level

Whenever you ask someone who believes in OSAS, what about this person doing (homosexuality, adultery, fornication, etc...)
They will say... oh that person was never saved in the first place.

You are raising the bar here and saying if they (lie, cheat, lust, dishonor parents, steal, etc...) any sin at all, they were never saved in the first place.

If that's the case, I'm not saved. I want to be, I try to be. You say "just stop sinning". You think I haven't tried? You think I don't want to?
You say "we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us". I believe that also.... but I haven't completely stopped sinning 100%
if I am honest with myself.

I suspect under your rules, you might be the only Christian on TJ. @Christ4Ever, [USER]Fragrant Grace [/USER], @Chad... none of them are Christians according to you. @Dave M, @Bendito,@KingJ @Curtis -- none of us are Christians according to you.

I myself have told people they aren't really Christians, when this happened, they didn't have scripture to support their beliefs.
You have been given dozens of scriptures of why we believe what we believe.

Now some of us have been Christians a long time. (even if you don't agree) and we take your teachings with "a grain of salt" so to speak.
We rather believe the majority of the Bible, rather than one verse. But new Christians who read this, will likely get discouraged and give up.

Lam 3:22; The Lord’s lovingkindnesses indeed never cease,
For His compassions never fail.
Lam 3:23; They are new every morning;
Great is Your faithfulness.

Prov 24:16; For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again,
But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.

Micah 7:18; Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity and passes over the transgression of the remnant of His inheritance—who does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in loving devotion?