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The war within

Rom 8:13; For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

It doesn't say "kill"

mor·ti·fy
ˈmôrdəˌfī/Submit
verb
verb: mortify; 3rd person present: mortifies; past tense: mortified; past participle: mortified; gerund or present participle: mortifying
1.
cause (someone) to feel embarrassed, ashamed, or humiliated.
"she was mortified to see her wrinkles in the mirror"
synonyms: embarrass, humiliate, chagrin, discomfit, shame, abash, horrify, appall
"I'd be mortified if my friends found out"
2.
subdue (the body or its needs and desires) by self-denial or discipline.
"return to heaven by mortifying the flesh"
synonyms: subdue, suppress, subjugate, control; More
3.
archaic
(of flesh) be affected by gangrene or necrosis.
"the cut in Henry's arm had mortified"

A more accurate translation is...
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Your version of the bible is presenting a false POV.
It is diametrically opposed to the truth of Romans 6:3-6.
As the KJV of Romans 6 , verse 7, has the results of our "old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,", let's see what that result is, shall we?
Romans 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin".
Your version of the bible forces you to adopt a long drawn out "immersion" into Christ and into His death..
How long does the normal baptism take?
A minute?
I have written before that the word "mortify" in Romans 8 means "keep dead". As does your #2 above...subdue, suppress, subjugate, control.
Anything less than that is disobedience.

You should free yourself from your horrible version of scripture before it is too late.
It accommodates sin.
 
there is a Light
help me to see
that i may behold
you, O Lord,
in all Your glory.

In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:4-5

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:19

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Matthew 6:13

there is a Light
help me to see
that i may behold
you, O Lord,
in all Your glory.
 
he is clearly wrong about his belief of all people will be instantly changed

He is not wrong dear brother. For clearly we all do change brother! I think it's the level, speed of change and what that means that disagreement is found in.

For it appears that Brother At Peace's is a change to Perfection (period of time from repentance to perfection yet unknown), while others are a process to that very Perfection being talked of so often here lately.

Is it possible that the change in us can be as he says. Immediate? To deny the possibility of this is to limit the power of God to change a willing man, which I believe can happen but does not happen to all men due to not all men being willing or allowing the power of God to function fully in them or even a lack of knowledge and or understanding upon conversion. I mean who immediately understood and was able to "Love" "Agape" immediately? This does not mean it can't happen, just not something that I can say one would see as an everyday occurrence. However, this does not negate the possibility that change can/will occur in those who have not achieved an immediate state of being Perfect.

Keeping in mind that our Brother in Christ Jesus, still, does not deny repentance at anytime. Which is important for those who have not achieved a state of Grace that he has. Also, if I read some of his words correctly. It also doesn't negate Salvation since it's a future event. I have no issue with this since, Scripture does mention one overcoming. Which can be attributed to both believer/non-believer, and of which I only give credence as being for the believer. Grace & not Works. Yeah I said it ;) :)

This of course is purely conjecture because I do not know the man, and only can make any determination through, first my/his understanding of the word "Perfect/Perfection" which I would hope is the same and second through the words he has shared with us. Nor can he make this determination for any of us, but by the same conditions. That he is able to state that we are not "perfect" is only due to our own admission, which has appeared, which provides him sufficient proof for him to state in his understanding of our words that we are not perfect ergo saved. Still, the latter "saved" should not be an issue for any of us since "Salvation is a future condition". The identifier should be "Believer" or "Non-Believer". Still, I also have no problem with anyone saying they are Saved. For Salvation is through Jesus Christ, in which our Hope resides of which I'm not ashamed. Be I Perfect or Complete in Christ Jesus. Do, I find myself at times almost as the father who cried out "I believe, help my unbelief"? Well, I know that if I do, the Lord will no wise reject me.

I guess the question we should ask ourselves in truth, "Is Jesus satisfied with us as we are?" If we were to answer this no, I do not believe that it would affect any of us regardless of the position we hold in being Perfect or not being Perfect, because change is what we're about as a new creation. For even for the Perfect person, change is a coming. So, self-evaluation is a good thing! If Yes is ones answer, then it allows us to say we are "Perfect" and have nothing to change to, spiritually speaking. Doing God's will perfectly is all that is left. Oh, but what a wonder! :)

Hope this wasn't too long in replying to just a small part of your post which caught my eye. Unlike, Br. Bear. my dear brother, as are you. I sometimes have difficulty holding off and running off at the keyboard. (Heavy sigh.)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick

P.S. Apologies Brother @B-A-C for going a bit off the thread subject.
 
He is not wrong dear brother. For clearly we all do change brother! I think it's the level, speed of change and what that means that disagreement is found in.

P.S. Apologies Brother @B-A-C for going a bit off the thread subject.

Actually I view this "speed of change". Directly related to "the war within".
The war doesn't start until we get saved. It doesn't end until we are perfect.

I have never said AtPeace is wrong about the final result. We just disagree that it has to
happen immediately.
 
I have never said AtPeace is wrong about the final result. We just disagree that it has to
happen immediately.
Hi, folks.
I want to thank C4E and B-A-C for their participation before I focus in on one thing that seems to separate our POVs.
"Perfection".
When I write "perfect", I mean it as...of God's incorruptible seed, washed from our past sins by the blood of Christ, temples of the Holy Ghost.
In slightly different terminology...reborn, sin free, seat of God on earth.
We all know that God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit, sin.
If we are reborn of that seed, we are also incapable of bringing forth evil fruit (sin).
Fig trees, (God), cannot bear grapes, (wickedness).
Nobody can disagree that we are "sin-free" after our baptism in Jesus' name (for the remission of sins).
That qualifies as perfect to me.
We all also know that God will not reside in a polluted temple, so if God is in you, you must be "perfectly" clean.
The only thing that can ruin one's "perfection" is a a false repentance from sin, which is a manifestation of unGodliness,
We are to know the tree by its fruit.
I do not include all knowledgeable, or wart free, or ignorance of the expected norms in the church body.
We learn as we grow closer to God.
What a new believer thinks is OK may change over time, but it is certain that that thinking or knowledge will never advocate or accommodate sin.
It just isn't in our new nature to lie or steal or any other thing whereby our Lord is defamed. (1 John 3:9)
The nature that used to advocate or accommodate such things was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Turn from sin, be washed, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost-Comforter-mind of Christ. (Acts 2:38)
 
He is not wrong dear brother. For clearly we all do change brother! I think it's the level, speed of change and what that means that disagreement is found in.

For it appears that Brother At Peace's is a change to Perfection (period of time from repentance to perfection yet unknown), while others are a process to that very Perfection being talked of so often here lately.

Is it possible that the change in us can be as he says. Immediate? To deny the possibility of this is to limit the power of God to change a willing man, which I believe can happen but does not happen to all men due to not all men being willing or allowing the power of God to function fully in them or even a lack of knowledge and or understanding upon conversion. I mean who immediately understood and was able to "Love" "Agape" immediately? This does not mean it can't happen, just not something that I can say one would see as an everyday occurrence. However, this does not negate the possibility that change can/will occur in those who have not achieved an immediate state of being Perfect.

Keeping in mind that our Brother in Christ Jesus, still, does not deny repentance at anytime. Which is important for those who have not achieved a state of Grace that he has. Also, if I read some of his words correctly. It also doesn't negate Salvation since it's a future event. I have no issue with this since, Scripture does mention one overcoming. Which can be attributed to both believer/non-believer, and of which I only give credence as being for the believer. Grace & not Works. Yeah I said it ;) :)

This of course is purely conjecture because I do not know the man, and only can make any determination through, first my/his understanding of the word "Perfect/Perfection" which I would hope is the same and second through the words he has shared with us. Nor can he make this determination for any of us, but by the same conditions. That he is able to state that we are not "perfect" is only due to our own admission, which has appeared, which provides him sufficient proof for him to state in his understanding of our words that we are not perfect ergo saved. Still, the latter "saved" should not be an issue for any of us since "Salvation is a future condition". The identifier should be "Believer" or "Non-Believer". Still, I also have no problem with anyone saying they are Saved. For Salvation is through Jesus Christ, in which our Hope resides of which I'm not ashamed. Be I Perfect or Complete in Christ Jesus. Do, I find myself at times almost as the father who cried out "I believe, help my unbelief"? Well, I know that if I do, the Lord will no wise reject me.

I guess the question we should ask ourselves in truth, "Is Jesus satisfied with us as we are?" If we were to answer this no, I do not believe that it would affect any of us regardless of the position we hold in being Perfect or not being Perfect, because change is what we're about as a new creation. For even for the Perfect person, change is a coming. So, self-evaluation is a good thing! If Yes is ones answer, then it allows us to say we are "Perfect" and have nothing to change to, spiritually speaking. Doing God's will perfectly is all that is left. Oh, but what a wonder! :)

Hope this wasn't too long in replying to just a small part of your post which caught my eye. Unlike, Br. Bear. my dear brother, as are you. I sometimes have difficulty holding off and running off at the keyboard. (Heavy sigh.)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick

P.S. Apologies Brother @B-A-C for going a bit off the thread subject.

so cherry picking a statement I said taken out of context of the full meaning is sad, sorry but I got nothing but love for Piece we just dont agree on this neither of us have been rude, and yet we have moderators who encourage this false doctrine and try to twist things around. If its such a sore spot perhaps you guys should just not join in the conversation. You certainly are not doing any good.

Dear brother you having taken what I was saying out of context here is what it boils down to


are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?


Peice said
That is precisely what I'm saying.

 
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The process of transfiguring, into the image of Christ takes time even though Christ in us is already perfect. Our understanding of who this person this, and how to allow him to operate through us takes a life time and then some.

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom). [Isa_61:1-2]
2Cor 3:18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 
so cherry picking a statement I said taken out of context of the full meaning is sad, sorry but I got nothing but love for Piece we just dont agree on this neither of us have been rude, and yet we have moderators who encourage this false doctrine and try to twist things around. If its such a sore spot perhaps you guys should just not join in the conversation. You certainly are not doing any good.

Dear brother you having taken what I was saying out of context here is what it boils down to


are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?


Peice said
That is precisely what I'm saying.

If I was speaking as a Moderator I would have signed it as a "Moderator". My post was only as one Brother to another. I know how to separate posting as a joint Member verses as a Moderator.

Disagree with me when I fill either position. Your prerogative. However, as much as I love you brother, when I sign it as a Moderator, how you reply can come with consequences. That you decided to include in your response quoted within this post to "issues with Moderators encouraging false doctrines", and included me as being one that should not join such conversations. Requires me to make this post as a Moderator and not just one Member replying to another.

If you have an issue with how Moderators are performing or applying or posting as Moderators. Then you do have alternatives on how to address this. This is done so that order can be maintained and authority respected. Whether you agree with it or not. I sure won't stand up in the middle of a Church Sermon being given by anyone, whether I agreed or not and begin to question their integrity. Because even if you are correct on the issue, you are wrong in the method/location chosen in doing so. So, my suggestion to and request to you is as follows when addressing "Moderators" as "Moderators".
  1. You can PM the Moderator in question to address the issue itself. Including maybe another Moderator in this PM is both welcomed and suggested.
  2. You can go right to the top and PM Administrator @Chad. I have never found him to be anything but honest and straight forward in addressing these issues. Whether it includes the Moderating Team or not.
There are others, but why tell you about the obvious ones you already know. Though my greatest suggestion either as Moderator and one that I'd give you as a fellow Member as well is to pray before replying. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide your words. Putting the anger/frustration of the moment behind you. Balance your response upon the predicate of "will this be a loving response even if the words disagree with the other's response." Yes, it is possible to disagree and still be loving.

If you have issue with this post. You are welcome to use 1, 2 or any other obvious ones to address or not address "this post" of mine. Otherwise, understand that "Moderator Bashing" will not be tolerated.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><
 
If there is war going on within, then there must be "weapons" to wage this battle.

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The battle is for man's logical analytical mind in his head. The Word of God is the only weapon that can be used to cast down any kind of "imaginations", and "fortresses" that have been built up by mans logical analytical mind that is totally against the revelation of God's Word, taught by Christ (anointing)

Hi, folks.
I want to thank C4E and B-A-C for their participation before I focus in on one thing that seems to separate our POVs.
"Perfection".
When I write "perfect", I mean it as...of God's incorruptible seed, washed from our past sins by the blood of Christ, temples of the Holy Ghost.
In slightly different terminology...reborn, sin free, seat of God on earth.
We all know that God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit, sin.
If we are reborn of that seed, we are also incapable of bringing forth evil fruit (sin).
Fig trees, (God), cannot bear grapes, (wickedness).
Nobody can disagree that we are "sin-free" after our baptism in Jesus' name (for the remission of sins).
That qualifies as perfect to me.
We all also know that God will not reside in a polluted temple, so if God is in you, you must be "perfectly" clean.
The only thing that can ruin one's "perfection" is a a false repentance from sin, which is a manifestation of unGodliness,
We are to know the tree by its fruit.
I do not include all knowledgeable, or wart free, or ignorance of the expected norms in the church body.
We learn as we grow closer to God.
What a new believer thinks is OK may change over time, but it is certain that that thinking or knowledge will never advocate or accommodate sin.
It just isn't in our new nature to lie or steal or any other thing whereby our Lord is defamed. (1 John 3:9)
The nature that used to advocate or accommodate such things was killed on the cross with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Turn from sin, be washed, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost-Comforter-mind of Christ. (Acts 2:38)

What you are missing is that man has "two" natures. A "divine nature" which came by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God, and mans "human nature" which came by man being born of a woman.
The battle within man is who will dominate man, his flesh, or his spirit. A born again man can sin at the drop of a hat if he is walking in the flesh. If he walks in the Spirit then sin in the flesh is kept under control.
Learning to walk in the Spirit, and becoming transformed into the image of Christ takes a life time, and then some.
 
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We all also know that God will not reside in a polluted temple, so if God is in you, you must be "perfectly" clean.
The only thing that can ruin one's "perfection" is a a false repentance from sin, which is a manifestation of unGodliness,

You do know Satan was cast out of heaven for rebellion. ( Luke 10:18; )
You do know there was a war in heaven. You do do know there will be another. ( Rev 12:7; )
You do know that Satan has visited heaven since his rebellion. ( Job 1:6; Job 2:1; )

You do know this is partly why there will be a new heavens and new earth. In the meantime
God and us are where we are.
 
so cherry picking a statement I said taken out of context of the full meaning is sad, sorry but I got nothing but love for Piece we just dont agree on this neither of us have been rude, and yet we have moderators who encourage this false doctrine and try to twist things around. If its such a sore spot perhaps you guys should just not join in the conversation. You certainly are not doing any good.

Dear brother you having taken what I was saying out of context here is what it boils down to

are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?
and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?
is this what you are saying?

Peice said
That is precisely what I'm saying.
Do you really think that obedience to God from the start of an alleged repentance from sin is a false doctrine?
If so, what is the point of "turning from" sin at all?
 
The process of transfiguring, into the image of Christ takes time even though Christ in us is already perfect. Our understanding of who this person this, and how to allow him to operate through us takes a life time and then some.

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (emancipation from bondage, freedom). [Isa_61:1-2]
2Cor 3:18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.

James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Were you not perfect, after you were washed of your past sins in the blood of Christ?

What you are missing is that man has "two" natures. A "divine nature" which came by the incorruptible seed of the Word of God, and mans "human nature" which came by man being born of a woman.
The battle within man is who will dominate man, his flesh, or his spirit. A born again man can sin at the drop of a hat if he is walking in the flesh. If he walks in the Spirit then sin in the flesh is kept under control.
Learning to walk in the Spirit, and becoming transformed into the image of Christ takes a life time, and then some.
I can't agree.
When I was crucified with Christ and buried with Him, all of my "old man"-"body of sin" was destroyed. (Rom 6:6) That included my affections and lusts...nature, if you will. (Gal 5:24)
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Isn't your "old" nature part of the "old things are passed away"?
I thank and praise God for making the divine nature available to those who want it.
It is available to all those who won't tolerate a split personality nature.
 
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You do know Satan was cast out of heaven for rebellion. ( Luke 10:18; )
You do know there was a war in heaven. You do do know there will be another. ( Rev 12:7; )
You do know that Satan has visited heaven since his rebellion. ( Job 1:6; Job 2:1; )
You do know this is partly why there will be a new heavens and new earth. In the meantime
God and us are where we are.
Is that an attempt to say the temple of God is corrupt?
That we can or should put up with satan's residency in ourselves?
What a yucky train of thought!
It is written..."For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" (Heb 7:26)
Neither Jesus not the Father abides with evil.
 
@At Peace I hope you have a wonderful weekend buddy I will have to bow out of this conversation, you and eye will not come to complete agreement on some things and thats ok.
 
Greetings,

Is that an attempt to say the temple of God is corrupt?
That we can or should put up with satan's residency in ourselves?
What a yucky train of thought!
It is written..."For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" (Heb 7:26)
Neither Jesus not the Father abides with evil.

If God permits may i add some to this?

The Temple was a sacred place, with courts, areas and porches, etc and as you entered it there were limits put on each person as to how far 'in' they could go.
We need to stop and consider this more 'correctly' in order to better grasp some of these references made as we travel the road.

For example, at a certain place, one could not proceed with death being the punishment if they did, these being such as Gentiles, those who had had contact with dead bodies, various sick people, those who had had contact with menstruous women, those who had that day been through one of the ritual cleansings from the various needed/prescribed cleansings, women, etc etc

The keeping of the 'rules and regulations' was a very serious task and the solemnity with which the holiness of the Temple was to be approached and entered was detailed as well as thourough in its carrying out of all the requirements so that no profanity would defile the Temple. Inviolable is a word that describes it well - we get 'violate' from the same word. So to get the picture, there were many ways the Temple could be violated and the keeping it holy was a must.

What we can, but must not forget is this:
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
we see this again in Exodus 34:14 ; Deuteronomy 6:15

The sort of jealousy we need to understand as very much a part of the not defiling the Temple with any unclean thing, be it an image or a person, the uncleaness was met with the strongest of vehement indignation and wrath. If we can better understand this we also will see a lot more clearly the things that were behind many of the Scriptures we read, in the New Testament.

For us now we have the same intensity to face and to expect from the same GOD and LORD of the Old Testament times. When we read and/or quote verses about the Temple we MUST keep these things in mind so that in our interpretations we do not suggest profanity against that which He HAS made Holy.

We have two verses being touched on here that must be considered...

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Corinthians 3:16 and 1Corinthians 3:17

If you loked at the previous Scriptures regarding the jealousy of GOD you will see, in these two verses, a significant deliberation put forth by the Apostle. He knew what he was talking about, the Apostle Paul probably better than any of the Apostles, having been, previous to conversion, a level one Pharisee and a zealous one at that.
To refresh your mind,
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Exodus 34:14
(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. Dueteronomy 6:15
So, if any man defile the Temple of God, him shall God destroy, takes on a whole new meaning.
Now, ye are the Temple of God, the Temple of God is holy, which you are.... we must consider by what means was the Old Temple clean? Once a year the High priest, after he had offered up all sacrifice for himself (to be cleaned and acceptable) entered in to the Holy of Holies, the innermost part of the Temple. He HAD to be extra clean, so to speak. Throughout the year, daily the strictest of rules/law/requirements had to be adhered to.

How then is the New Temple made clean? Is it by anything we can do?

Who HAS made His Temple clean, Holy, acceptable?

Guarantee to you is that it is none of us either prior nor after conversion at any point in time either now or in eternity that any of us or all of us altogether can make any part of the Temple He has Cleansed any cleaner.

Now, stop here. Ye are the Temple which is Holy, made holy By Christ Jesus alone. Think about it.
Not one has done the work of Christ. None can.

So, ye are the Temple. We are told that if any man defile the Temple... that is, defile you, usually plural, not individuals, which we tend to overlook... him will God destroy.

THIS is not about us, the members of the Temple doing the defiling but those who might come in from the outside uncleaned and so defile it (us, the Temple) with the pollution whereby he is defiled.
Our God IS a jealous God and ye are His. Do not be deceived.

we read in 2Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


....Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it; that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27

yes, let us be thankful that we do have a high priest....
For such an High Priest became us, Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26
and has entered in....

and to recap, It is and was because the Spirit of God was/is indwelling the Temple that the Temple is Holy. Ye are the Temple of God, not made with hands, yes, ye are the Holy Temple kept Holy by the indwelling of the Spirit of God.
Be encouraged and take confidence, not in yourselves but in Him, Who has entered in....


Bless you ....><>

Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

If any man defile the Temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the Temple of God is Holy, which Temple ye are.
1Corinthians 3:16-17
 
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Greetings Dave,

you asked me about the following on another post/thread? but I can't remember where it was.

are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?
and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?
is this what you are saying?

Peice said
That is precisely what I'm saying.

Can you remember because I haven't forgotten about you. Binabitbusy!!

Let me know if you remember as I did want to get back to you.


Bless you ....><>
 
I can't agree.
When I was crucified with Christ and buried with Him, all of my "old man"-"body of sin" was destroyed. (Rom 6:6) That included my affections and lusts...nature, if you will. (Gal 5:24)
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Isn't your "old" nature part of the "old things are passed away"?
I thank and praise God for making the divine nature available to those who want it.
It is available to all those who won't tolerate a split personality nature.

Remember, I asked you on another thread, and you could not give me a answer. I asked, "If Jesus was God in the flesh, and he was, how could Jesus ever be tempted when the scripture says", "God can NOT be tempted with evil, neither does he tempt any man?" (James 1:3) If you do not fully understand that man has two natures, a divine, and a human nature, you could not possibly answer this question.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

The only thing that ALL men have in "common" with each other is that we all have a human nature. Not all men have the divine nature. (not born again) When Jesus was tempted it was not his divine nature because God can not be tempted with evil. It was in his human nature he was tempted. All born again children of God are also tempted in their human nature, which is why this scripture says, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man:"
Now, we should be able to understand this scripture.

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Man has a divine nature within himself which is Christ in us. Christ can never be tempted to sin, for it can not sin, but mans human nature which is common to all men can.
 
Greetings,

if i may...?

Jesus was and is also the Son of man. Can you fit that into the whole point presented?

also, I really do think that most overlook the 'summary' account of the teaching of Jesus Christ as was witnessed by the Apostles in the Life of Jesus Whom they were with and Who called them and made them His Apostles, and that we have been taught by tradition to read 1John in a light (or hazy sort of appearance of light) that ignores this fact as per the Apostles opening words in his letter/epistle.


Bless you ....><>
 
are you saying everyone that is Gods children is made perfect sinless instantly?

and if that does not happen they are not Gods children?

is this what you are saying?

Peice said
That is precisely what I'm saying.

So who are God's children?

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." I John 3:9-10

If we sin at all are we God's children? Are we born again or perhaps we are still in the womb or still in the birth canal?
People are often quick to say that they are born again, when perhaps the process of birth is incomplete. The child is undergoing formation before it exposed to the Light for 9 months. The child does not breath air alone until after 9 months.

Even when the child is born it is still immature for a number of years. What is it we are looking for? What is it that God wants from us?
 
Were you not perfect, after you were washed of your past sins in the blood of Christ?

My spirit yes, my physical body no. Your body in which you are now living in is "corruptible", and if it isn't, your physical body would never die. The Apostle Paul never claimed to be sinless, in fact he said...

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

What is sin?

  • Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4)
  • All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17)
    ; that is, if it is not righteous, it is sin.
  • Failing to do something you should have done is sin, because James 4:17
    states, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
  • Whatsoever is not done in faith is sin (Roman 14:23)
  • The thought of foolishness is sin (Proverbs 24:9)
  • A proud heart is sin (Proverbs 21:4)
Anyone who says they are sinless in this life has a "proud heart" and is committing sin!
 
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