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A Biblical verse on accepting our gay brethren: Acts 8:26-40

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RJ

Fornication is any sexual activity that is performed outside of monogamous, heterosexual marriage.

The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin, just as all other forms of fornication are sin.

Yes, we should love gay people, the same as we should love murderers and liars. But that doesnt mean accepting their sinful behavior.
Exactly, it is about the sin and not as much about the sinner.
I get so tired of the Religous left saying that homosexuality is a matter of loving and accepting their life style. If we don't then we are not showing God's love and being judgemental, also calling me a homophobe!
I don't fear homosexuals, I fear what is going to happen to them.
Here's the really main point about all this:
There will be no non-regenerated or unrepentant sinners in heaven, including wilfull homosexuals, none because they will be in Hell. That is not my choice, God is the judge and he has told us what the guidlines are.
There have been and will always be regenerated and repentant sinners, though they struggle at times, will go to heaven with there slates wiped clean. Just because you stuggle, we all do, the mark of a saved homosexual, is one with Christ in them, they are regenerated because they hate their sin and are constanly working to get out of this lifestyle, though they may slip back into at times for what ever reason. The unrepentant homosexual is not saved no more than any other non-repentant sinner.
So, yes, love the homosexual but we are not to accept their unrepentantness. True God's love is to love them and explain the error of their ways and they will be lost for all eternity if they truly do not repent and allow God to renew them to salvation.
 
Member
Exactly, it is about the sin and not as much about the sinner.
I get so tired of the Religous left saying that homosexuality is a matter of loving and accepting their life style. If we don't then we are not showing God's love and being judgemental, also calling me a homophobe!
I don't fear homosexuals, I fear what is going to happen to them.
Here's the really main point about all this:
There will be no non-regenerated or unrepentant sinners in heaven, including wilfull homosexuals, none because they will be in Hell. That is not my choice, God is the judge and he has told us what the guidlines are.
There have been and will always be regenerated and repentant sinners, though they struggle at times, will go to heaven with there slates wiped clean. Just because you stuggle, we all do, the mark of a saved homosexual, is one with Christ in them, they are regenerated because they hate their sin and are constanly working to get out of this lifestyle, though they may slip back into at times for what ever reason. The unrepentant homosexual is not saved no more than any other non-repentant sinner.
So, yes, love the homosexual but we are not to accept their unrepentantness. True God's love is to love them and explain the error of their ways and they will be lost for all eternity if they truly do not repent and allow God to renew them to salvation.

So... what do you think about all the persecution, beatings, imprisonment, and murder being perpetrated under the name of Christ that I just shared with you above. Does it tire you?
 
Active

RJ

So... what do you think about all the persecution, beatings, imprisonment, and murder being perpetrated under the name of Christ that I just shared with you above. Does it tire you?
They are an abomination as well. You know, one wrong doesn't right another. Jesus didn't say that we are to accept or enemies, he said that we are to love them. In the case of the above autrocities, love means to be forgiving, compassionate and not vindictive and cruel.
The answer is true repentativeness.
There are plenty of "Christians", by name only, who are not saved:
Revelation 3:16
Matthew 7:21-23
In these above verses, it is not about doing good works, it is about sinners, of which we all are equally sinners. And regarding those sinners that stand up and say or represent in their actions, that they are not repentant, there is no salvation for them and they are not true "Born Again" Christians!
God bless and I hope this helps explain God's principle of renpenting!
 
Member
They are an abomination as well. You know, one wrong doesn't right another. Jesus didn't say that we are to accept or enemies, he said that we are to love them. In the case of the above autrocities, love means to be forgiving, compassionate and not vindictive and cruel.
The answer is true repentativeness.
There are plenty of "Christians", by name only, who are not saved:
Revelation 3:16
Matthew 7:21-23
In these above verses, it is not about doing good works, it is about sinners, of which we all are equally sinners. And regarding those sinners that stand up and say or represent in their actions, that they are not repentant, there is no salvation for them and they are not true "Born Again" Christians!
God bless and I hope this helps explain God's principle of renpenting!

God bless you too.

Exodus 20:14 (One of the 10 Commandments)

"You shall not commit adultery.”

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

The Bible says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer, and that anyone who marries a divorced woman is an adulterer as well, and clearly says that they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 40-50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage? They cannot 'repent' over their adultery since they are committing it continuously once they have chosen to remarry to someone who is divorced, or by divorcing more than once.

Do you believe there is no salvation for them as well?
 
Member
There is a lot of truth in that. Sometimes it takes both.
Eph 4:2; with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,
Eph 4:14; As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
Eph 4:15; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

2 Tim 2:24; The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
2 Tim 2:25; with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2:26; and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

1 Cor 13:2; If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Sometimes... letting people continue to do what they want to do without warning them, is not really showing love.
Luke 16:27; "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Ezek 3:18; "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.
Ezek 3:19; "Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself.
Ezek 3:20; "Again, when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an obstacle before him, he will die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Ezek 3:21; "However, if you have warned the righteous man that the righteous should not sin and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; and you have delivered yourself."
Yes, sometimes it takes both. But just having the scriptures doesn't help me to know when to warn and correct and when to tolerate in love. In the stuff I am dealing with right now, the Spirit says to be quiet and put my hope in God. Without the Spirit, with just knowing the scriptures, I would be confused about what to do in my situation. My situation, of course, is a personal matter and has nothing to do with this thread on gays. But it is similar because it has to do with acceptance, tolerance and love even when a sin distresses me. The Spirit has made it clear that my job is to let Him do His job. If you were in a similar situation, maybe the Spirit would tell you to do something different. But the scriptures alone, without the Spirit's guidance, are really not much help.
 
Active

RJ

God bless you too.

Exodus 20:14 (One of the 10 Commandments)

"You shall not commit adultery.”

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

The Bible says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer, and that anyone who marries a divorced woman is an adulterer as well, and clearly says that they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 40-50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage? They cannot 'repent' over their adultery since they are committing it continuously once they have chosen to remarry to someone who is divorced, or by divorcing more than once.

Do you believe there is no salvation for them as well?
Again, judgement is up to Jesus/God.
A person, by their own admittance or actions, I have the right to discern whether they are truly regenerated or not, but being saved is up to God, for who knows the heart fo a man better than God, even from the foundation of the world?
Here is what God syas about divorce and adultery:
Matthew 19:3-12
Matthew 5:28
So, the Bible clearly indicates what is adultery by Old Law / Old Testament rules.
We no longer are saved by Old Testament laws, we are now saved, under New Testament grace from God. In the New Testament, Jesus took this converstion a step further when he said , "If you have even looked at a woman with lust in your heart, you have comitted Adultery. So, I ask you how many Christians can pass that rule?
If you are truly not repentant at the time of death, no matter the circumstance, you are probablly not saved....I wouldn't take the chance!
 
Loyal
Lest anyone falsely accuse me of 'promoting' homosexuality by sharing this article from an Anglican priest, I most definitely am not. I am, however condemning murder perpetrated under the name of Christ. Here is an article that is well worth reading on the subject of Christ's teachings being used to justify persecution and worse:

Op-Ed- 'How anti-gay Christians evangelize hate abroad', by Kapya Kaoma. Reverend Kaoma is an Anglican priest and the senior religion and sexuality researcher at Political Research Associates in Boston. He wrote the reports "Colonizing African Values" and "Globalizing the Culture Wars."

If you live in the United States, it's easy to be lulled into thinking that the battle for broader civil rights for gay people is nearly over. The last few years have brought important victories in courts, legislatures and at the ballot box, and momentum is firmly on the side of increased equality.

That's not true, however, in other parts of the world. The hateful vitriol that has fueled U.S. culture wars for so long is now being exported, and some of our most ardent culture warriors are finding a far more receptive audience abroad.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Even if every single nation was pro-gay rights and legalized same sex "marriages" it would still be sin in God's eyes.
Even if all people supported it, even if every church said it was OK, it would still be sin.

How does NOT telling them it is sin help anyone?
 
Active

RJ

Yes, sometimes it takes both. But just having the scriptures doesn't help me to know when to warn and correct and when to tolerate in love. In the stuff I am dealing with right now, the Spirit says to be quiet and put my hope in God. Without the Spirit, with just knowing the scriptures, I would be confused about what to do in my situation. My situation, of course, is a personal matter and has nothing to do with this thread on gays. But it is similar because it has to do with acceptance, tolerance and love even when a sin distresses me. The Spirit has made it clear that my job is to let Him do His job. If you were in a similar situation, maybe the Spirit would tell you to do something different. But the scriptures alone, without the Spirit's guidance, are really not much help.
So, it sounds like you know what to do" in your situation". Your blessed, keep persuing the truth!
 
Loyal
God bless you too.

Exodus 20:14 (One of the 10 Commandments)

"You shall not commit adultery.”

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

The Bible says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer, and that anyone who marries a divorced woman is an adulterer as well, and clearly says that they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 40-50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage? They cannot 'repent' over their adultery since they are committing it continuously once they have chosen to remarry to someone who is divorced, or by divorcing more than once.

Do you believe there is no salvation for them as well?

I hope so, I myself am divorced and remarried. My wife's first husband died. a long time before I knew her.
I never wanted a divorce and never signed the divorce papers, I have to hope God isn't going to hold it against me.
King David only did it once, but he was forgiven.
The Samaritan woman at the well had 5 husbands (and the one she was with now was not her husband). Yet Jesus told her she could have living water.
Getting divorced is a sin also, so either way it would be a sin. However I agree with you, there are people who are habitual fornicators and adulterers.
People that have been married over and over again will have to answer to God. People that keep sleeping with other people (married or otherwise)
will have to answer to God. I believe they can repent, but that means they have to stop doing those things.

1 Cor 6:9-10; (which you appear to be quoting above) says these people can't enter heaven. However verse 11 says they can.
1 Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

No one here is denying divorce and adultery are sin. There are consequences for doing them. Repentance is required. There is a young couple living together in my church
right now, in fact the woman is pregnant. He has children from another woman. They have been talked to about it by myself and other elders of the church. They were refused
water baptism last month. Their sin is treated as bad as anyone else's.

No one is saying homosexuals can never be forgiven. But just like fornication and adultery, you can't continue to keep doing it.
The difference is, it appears some people are trying to convince us that homosexuality isn't a sin.
 
Member
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Even if every single nation was pro-gay rights and legalized same sex "marriages" it would still be sin in God's eyes.
Even if all people supported it, even if every church said it was OK, it would still be sin.

How does NOT telling them it is sin help anyone?

You're not sure of what this has to do with this topic? It's quite clear. Hopefully you're helping all the divorced people and people who have re-married and thus become adulterers by telling them just as passionately about their sin as you do to gay people.

Are you somehow saying then that you approve of all the persecution, life imprisonments, beatings, murder, and people being burned to death alive by mobs of Christians as a direct result of the 'teachings' that right-wing American evangelicals have exported to Africa recently?
 
Member
Again, judgement is up to Jesus/God.
A person, by their own admittance or actions, I have the right to discern whether they are truly regenerated or not, but being saved is up to God, for who knows the heart fo a man better than God, even from the foundation of the world?
Here is what God syas about divorce and adultery:
Matthew 19:3-12
Matthew 5:28
So, the Bible clearly indicates what is adultery by Old Law / Old Testament rules.
We no longer are saved by Old Testament laws, we are now saved, under New Testament grace from God. In the New Testament, Jesus took this converstion a step further when he said , "If you have even looked at a woman with lust in your heart, you have comitted Adultery. So, I ask you how many Christians can pass that rule?
If you are truly not repentant at the time of death, no matter the circumstance, you are probablly not saved....I wouldn't take the chance!


Hi RJ. So if judgement is left up to God, which I totally agree with, why do so many churches welcome adulterers into their congregations, but are very unwelcoming to unrepentant gay people and take it upon themselves to constantly and publicly harangue them over their sins, while not treating unrepentant adulterers in the same way at all??

On the laws, I'm sorry but you're gravely mistaken. The following teachings and judgement are from the New Testament, not the Old:

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

1 Corinthians 6:9

“Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit the kingdom of God? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime.”
 
Loyal
You're not sure of what this has to do with this topic? It's quite clear. Hopefully you're helping all the divorced people and people who have re-married and thus become adulterers by telling them just as passionately about their sin as you do to gay people.

Are you somehow saying then that you approve of all the persecution, life imprisonments, beatings, murder, and people being burned to death alive by mobs of Christians as a direct result of the 'teachings' that right-wing American evangelicals have exported to Africa recently?

To me these are separate issues. First of all there are existing church documents in Africa from the 3rd century that speak against homosexuality, so this is hardly
because of "right wing evangelicals". Second, us "right wingers" do not approve of beating and murdering people no matter what they have done whether it was
because of homosexuality or not. I do believe however there are some things people should be imprisoned for. Homosexuality is not one of them.
 
Member
To me these are separate issues. First of all there are existing church documents in Africa from the 3rd century that speak against homosexuality, so this is hardly
because of "right wing evangelicals". Second, us "right wingers" do not approve of beating and murdering people no matter what they have done whether it was
because of homosexuality or not. I do believe however there are some things people should be imprisoned for. Homosexuality is not one of them.

Gay people were not being rounded up, imprisoned for life, beaten in public, murdered and being burned alive by Christian mobs until only very recently, as a direct result of the following right-wing evangelicals speaking there. Apparently you didn't read the post I shared from the Anglican priest. Here it is again for your edification:

In March 2009, while in Kampala, Uganda, researching reports of U.S. right-wing evangelical involvement in attacks on LGBTQ equality and reproductive justice, I was invited to a three-day conference on homosexuality hosted by the Family Life Network, (a right-wing evangelical organization) which is based in New York. The keynote speaker was Scott Lively from Springfield, Mass., who introduced himself as a leading expert on the "international homosexual agenda." I filmed Lively over the course of two days as he instructed religious and political leaders about how gays were coming to Uganda from the West to "recruit children into homosexuality."

Some of his assertions would have been laughable had he not been so deadly serious. He claimed that a gay clique that included Adolf Hitler was behind the Holocaust, and he insinuated that gay people fueled the Rwandan genocide.

In the United States, Lively is widely dismissed as an anti-gay firebrand and Holocaust revisionist. But in Uganda, he was presented — and accepted — as a leading international authority. The public persecution of LGBTQ people escalated after Lively's conference, with one local newspaper publishing the pictures and addresses of activists under the headline, "Hang Them."

Lively was also invited to private briefings with political and religious leaders, and to address the Ugandan parliament during his 2009 visit. The next month, Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati unveiled his Anti-Homosexuality Bill, which in its original form called for the death penalty as punishment for a new crime of "aggravated homosexuality."

In recent years, millions of dollars have been funneled from anti-LGBTQ evangelical conservatives to Uganda, funding local pastors and training them to adopt and mirror the culture-war language of the U.S. Christian right. Bahati and a notorious anti-gay pastor, Martin Ssempa, were personally mentored by U.S. conservatives. And powerful Christian right organizations such as the Family Research Council lobbied Congress to change a resolution denouncing the Uganda legislation.

Other prominent right-wing evangelicals have also made Uganda appearances, including California's Rick Warren and Lou Engle, who founded TheCall ministry. They met with politicians, hosted rallies and public meetings, and used their influence and credibility to contribute to a culture war in Uganda much more intense and explosive than anything seen in the United States; Lively himself described the work as a "nuclear bomb" in Uganda.

In December, the Ugandan parliament finally passed the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, and last month President Yoweri Museveni signed it into law. The death penalty provision was removed, but the law includes life sentences for homosexual "repeat offenders" and criminalizes advocacy on behalf of LGBTQ Ugandans.

Uganda has deservedly received widespread attention, but it's not the only country with a culture war that carries the fingerprints of U.S. campaigners. Nigeria has passed a bill almost identical to Uganda's, and Cameroon and Zambia are enthusiastically imprisoning LGBTQ people.

And let's not forget Russia. In 2007, Lively traveled throughout Russia to, as he put it, bring a warning about the "homosexual political movement." He urged Russians, among other things, "to criminalize the public advocacy of homosexuality." Last year, President Vladimir Putin signed a bill into law that criminalizes distribution of "gay propaganda" to minors, including any material that "equates the social value of traditional and nontraditional sexual relations." In Russia, because of this law, gay people are being beaten and even murdered now, with no response from the authorities.
 
Loyal
I read it the first time. Let me also add (I stated this above somewhere) not everyone who calls themselves Christians or says they are doing things in the name of Christianity
actually are. I don't doubt these things are happening. I don't doubt some so-called "Christians" are perpetuating some of this. But don't include all Christians, or even
all "right wing evangelicals" into this camp.
 
Member
I read it the first time. Let me also add (I stated this above somewhere) not everyone who calls themselves Christians or says they are doing things in the name of Christianity
actually are. I don't doubt these things are happening. I don't doubt some so-called "Christians" are perpetuating some of this. But don't include all Christians, or even
all "right wing evangelicals" into this camp.

I never included 'all' right-wing evangelicals, but the recent persecution and brutal murders toward and of gay people or anyone even accused of being gay happening right now by self-proclaimed 'Christians' are definitely a direct result of the right-wing U.S. evangelical organizations and persons listed above.
 
Active

RJ

Hi RJ. So if judgement is left up to God, which I totally agree with, why do so many churches welcome adulterers into their congregations, but are very unwelcoming to unrepentant gay people and take it upon themselves to constantly and publicly harangue them over their sins, while not treating unrepentant adulterers in the same way at all??

On the laws, I'm sorry but you're gravely mistaken. The following teachings and judgement are from the New Testament, not the Old:

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

1 Corinthians 6:9

“Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit the kingdom of God? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime.”
O.K. Aaron, it is obvious that you know the answers and are not seeking any further edification from me. The best of wishes in your spiritual journey and may God Bless.
 
Member
O.K. Aaron, it is obvious that you know the answers and are not seeking any further edification from me. The best of wishes in your spiritual journey and may God Bless.

Hi RJ,

I didn't claim to know all answers, but merely disagreed with you on the topic we were discussing.

Regardless, thank you and I wish the same blessings on you.
 
Active

RJ

Hi RJ,

I didn't claim to know all answers, but merely disagreed with you on the topic we were discussing.

Regardless, thank you and I wish the same blessings on you.

I know of no other platform , where we can come and express our views .
Aaron, it appears that you come here not seeking answers but to state your beliefs and opinons. Thanks to TJ and Chad for giving us this opportunity.
RJ
 
Member
I know of no other platform , where we can come and express our views .
Aaron, it appears that you come here not seeking answers but to state your beliefs and opinons. Thanks to TJ and Chad for giving us this opportunity.
RJ

Hi RJ, on this topic, that is correct since I have been studying it in depth for many years, as have all the denominations who share my views on this.

That said, there are many Christian platforms where we can come and express our views with other Christians. Some are more welcoming than others though.

Here are a few, although not all, of my favorite ones:

Bible-Discussion.com

Christianity Board Christian Forum Community

Debating Christianity and Religion - Religious Debate Forums
 
Active

RJ

Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth and his first letter to Timothy both include lists; 1 Corinthians include a list of actions that will keep someone from inheriting the Kingdom of God, and 1 Timothy includes a listing of unrighteous people. Neither of these lists claims to be all-inclusive.

On the other hand, Jesus made a list that does appear comprehensive:

Matthew 15:18-20

KJV: (King James Version, 1611): "…those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man…"

Darby Translation (DARBY): "... but the things which go forth out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those defile man. For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnessings, blasphemies;these are the things which defile man; but the eating with unwashen hands does not defile man."

Obviously, Jesus did not consider homosexuality important enough to specify in what looks like an all-inclusive list.

Matthew 19 has a more significant message.

In Matthew 19:3-12 Jesus answers questions posed by Pharisees about divorce, leading to a question whether it is not perhaps better not to marry. He responds to it with a short discussion in Matthew 19:12 that the King James Version (1611) translates this way:

"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb; and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men; and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Castrated males are not the only people included in the term 'eunuch'. There can hardly be a question that gays fall into the eunuch definition given by Christ, and Isaiah 56:4-5 offers a particularly hopeful prospect for those who keep the covenant with God.

Using common sense, rationality and basic logic from what we know about gay people now, it is honest to interpret the third type of eunuch that Jesus mentions as "those who choose to refrain from marriage with women because doing so would be contrary to their God-created nature and therefore dishonest."


In the ancient world, eunuchs were widely associated with homosexuality. Here a self-avowed eunuch is welcomed in to the early church without any concerns about his sexual orientation. He was welcomed on the same basis as other people – his faith in Jesus Christ.

Once people who have prejudice against gays find out someone is gay, it is as if that person has a neon sign on his or her forehead, flashing, "Gay! Gay! Gay!" But God sees people differently, looking past incidental labels and seeing into the core of each being. As the Apostle Peter says, "God shows no partiality." (Acts 10:30)

The grace of God is available to gay people on the same basis as all other humans.

That is what the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch is all about.

The use of Acts 8:26-40 is an age old poor example of the Bible accepting homosexuality/
1. The eunuchs of the Bible were usually castrated males or those incapable of reproduction due to a birth defect. A eunuch could also be someone who performed work typical of eunuchs, although he remained perfectly capable of having sex—i.e., “eunuch” in some cases was simply a title. The purpose of intentional castration was to induce impotence and remove sexuality. It was a common practice in ancient times for rulers to castrate some of their servants and/or advisers in order to subdue and pacify them. It was especially common to castrate men who tended the royal harem.
2. A. There is no conclusive evidents that the Eunich in Acts was a homosexual.
B. If he was a homosexual , there is no evidence that he was not regenerated, converted and went away repentant.




The author of Acts sought to write a well-researched history of the acts of the apostles following the resurrection of Jesus and his ascension into heaven. In chapter eight of that book, we find Philip heading a great evangelistic campaign in Samaria. The story tells us that along with "proclaiming the Messiah," (8:4) Philip was healing people and casting out demons. His efforts were going so well, and so many were coming to faith, "there was great joy in that city." (8:8) However, in the midst of this great revival, the Holy Spirit told Philip to "get up and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." (8:26) This road was in the wilderness.

This seems like a strange command: Leave the great revival among the Samaritans, and go out into the wilderness. But Philip did what God asked. Then the story gets even stranger. Out in the wilderness, Philip finds a lone Ethiopian eunuch traveling south from Jerusalem. The author tells us the man was sitting in his chariot, reading from Isaiah. Having just been to Jerusalem to worship, he was now headed home.

It is this nameless man who makes the story so important to gay, lesbian, and bisexual Christians, and the acceptance of them. So, let us look more closely at the identity of the Ethiopian eunuch. At the time of the writing of Acts, the term Ethiopian was used to describe people from Nubia, south of Egypt. So, we know from this description that he was probably a black African. But that still leaves us with the question, "What is a eunuch?"

The Greek word used in Acts is 'eunouchos', which means literally "guardian or keeper of the couch."The term refers to those who were placed in positions of highest trust in royal palaces and wealthy households. Eunuchs served and guarded the women in these households. Because of their intimate access to the royal courts, eunuchs often rose to senior government positions. In this story, the Ethiopian eunuch was Treasurer to the Queen of Ethiopia. (8:27)

Not just anyone was permitted to serve as a eunuch. Given their intimate access to the women of the household, they had to be men who could be trusted not to have affairs with (or force themselves upon) the women — because to do so would cloud the line of succession to the throne and confuse inheritance rights. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the ideal candidate for the position of eunuch would be someone known for his disinterest in women. Although the ancients did not have the same clear concept of heterosexual and homosexual that we do today, people were put together in the same way then as now. There were men then (as now) who had a reputation for being disinterested in women as objects of sexual attraction. They would make the ideal eunuch.

Of course, it was not always possible to find someone like this. In those situations, or in situations where the master wanted to be extra cautious, eunuchs were often castrated, i.e., their testicles were removed so they would be incapable of fathering children. But it would be historically inaccurate to picture eunuchs as a bunch of straight men who were castrated. Ancient literature indicates that various types of eunuchs were recognized. There were "man-made eunuchs," meaning those who had been castrated. But there are also references to so-called "natural" or "born" eunuchs. This category also included males who from childhood seemed incapable of or disinterested in intercourse with women.

It is clear from the ancient literature that eunuchs as a class had a reputation for being attracted sexually to men, rather than women. For example, an ancient Summarian myth about the creation of eunuchs says they "do not satisfy the lap of women." They were specifically created, the myth says, because they can resist the wiles of women. - Inanna's Descent into the Nether World, (Journal of Cuneiform Studies, Vol. 4, # 4, 1950), page 200.

The book of Sirach, found in the Old Testament of the Catholic Bible, says that embracing a girl makes a eunuch groan. (Sirach 30:30) The Roman playwright Juvenal (who lived near the time of Christ) stated, "When a soft eunuch takes to matrimony. . . it is hard not to write a satire."

Lucian, a Greek satirist who lived about one hundred years after Christ, compares a eunuch with a concubine to a deaf man with a flute, a bald man with a comb, and a blind man with a mirror. In other words, a eunuch has as much need for a woman as a fish has for a bicycle.

With this historical background, we can now return to the story in Acts 8 about the Ethiopian eunuch. The point we have been leading up to is this: When the Ethiopian introduced himself to Philip as a eunuch, Philip would have immediately known he was dealing with a man who was part of a class commonly associated with homosexual desire.

Acts 8:32-33 tells us the Ethiopian eunuch was reading from Isaiah 53:7-8. This passage was seen by early Christians as a prophecy about Jesus. The whole chapter tells about the suffering of God's anointed one. Verse 3 says, "He was despised and rejected by others." Verse 7 says, "He was oppressed and he was afflicted."

So, in Jerusalem, the Ethiopian eunuch would have been assured by the people of God that he could not become one of them. He would have been despised and rejected, cut off from God's grace by the religious leaders.

Perhaps someone among his friends had furtively told him about Isaiah 56:3-5, which promises eunuchs who keep God's commandments that someday they will receive a house, a monument, and a name within God's walls.Perhaps, like gay, lesbian, and bisexual Christians today, he had gone to his religious leaders pointing to the Scriptures which affirmed him, hoping he might somehow be accepted with kindness and love. But instead, he had been clobbered once again with Deuteronomy 23:1. A eunuch "may not enter the assembly of God's people!" And so he had taken his precious scroll of Isaiah and begun his journey home, reading about another of God's children who had been despised, rejected, and cut off.

It was at this point Philip, guided by the Holy Spirit, happened along and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?" The Ethiopian eunuch, still seeking a religious authority figure, answered "How can I unless someone guides me?" (8:31)

So, Philip started with this Scripture and "proclaimed to him the good news of Jesus." (8:35) Then they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is some water! What is to prevent me from being baptized?" Philip's answer should be astonishing to anyone who still holds a prejudice against gay, lesbian, and bisexual believers.

Philip responded, "If you believe with all your heart, you may."

Philip did not say, "Let's talk about Deuteronomy 23:1." He also did not say, "I realize since you're a eunuch that you may desire men; can you promise me you'll never have a sexual relationship with a man?" Instead, operating under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." We have no way of knowing whether the Ethiopian eunuch was in fact gay. But we do know he was part of a class of people commonly associated with homosexuality and that this fact was completely irrelevant to whether he could become a Christian.

The implications of this story are profound for gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, and for the acceptance of them by the church.

This story illustrates that what matters is how we relate to Jesus — a point made over and over again in the New Testament, but which many modern Christians refuse to apply consistently.Scripture is not what keeps them from accepting their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters; only prejudice does.For if there were some authentic scriptural basis for excluding the Ethiopian eunuch because of the real possibility he was homosexual, we can be sure that Philip, a man who followed God even when God led him into the wilderness, would have been quick to pursue it.

Most likely, same-sex marriage will soon be the law in all 50 states and we as Christians will have to co-exist. In addition many if not most Christians have a family member who they deeply love, but who is also gay. Homosexual love is just as capable of virtue and vice as heterosexual love. Excluding that love from institutional recognition is prejudicial and deceptive. It reinforces irrational, biological disgusts of some heterosexuals that reflect more their own sexuality and social conditioning than any moral truth, and reinforces a crude fear of otherness barely any different than the primal fears of foreigners, other races, or menstrual blood.

In telling someone they are homosexual, gay people are not revealing a quirky bedroom desire that's impolite to mention in casual conversation, and to treat them like that's what they are doing demeans their entire love orientation, and disrespects some of the most important relationships and desires for love and companionship in their lives. This is why the homophobic cop out that goes, "I don't care what people do in their bedrooms, I just do not want to know about it" is so insulting to gays. Gays are not telling people about their sex lives when they tell them about their sexual orientation. They are telling them about a much deeper and much more central part of their identity—again, something as important to them as being straight is to a straight person.

The net sum gains of gay marriage: More marriages, more commitment, fidelity, love, self-sacrifice, responsibility among homosexuals. More stable homes for children. Less gays in sexually doomed marriages to straights with the concomitant divorces. No exclusion of citizens based on morally irrelevant factors from participating in cultural institutions. No "separate but equal" standards that make for second class citizens. Love and commitment are more clearly defined as the core of marriage rather than degrading economics or social transaction concerns that disregard individual happiness.

All of this is increase in freedom for all to pursue their own happiness as guaranteed by our Constitution. It's a further strike against slavery to our overly-ingrained tendencies of our species to be traditionalistic and fearful of Otherness. It's a teaching instrument for us to overcome our irrational disgusts and learn to separate knee jerk aversions from moral repulsion, which is an increase in our abilities to assess issues fairly, rationally, and only according to relevant distinctions.

It means less promiscuity (if decreasing promiscuity is a good you want), decreasing the chances of sexual diseases and emotional and relational instability. Mainstreaming gays, makes them happier, cuts down on their suicides, gives young people who are gay more confidence that they can be accepted for who they are in the larger culture and that they can pursue their dreams and consummate their loves just as well as if they were straight.



Many a homophobic religious person has infamously claimed that when it comes to gays he "loves the sinner but hates the sin" and many a defender of the full dignity and ethical lives of gay people has judged such a compromised offer of love inadequate (if not insincere).


To gay people, who understand their homosexuality as a key part of their very psycho-sexual identity—which is as fundamental to their self-conception as heterosexuality is to straight people—their homosexuality is not just a "behavior" but a rather fundamental expression of themselves with far reaching consequences for their entire lives.


Of course, that is not to say that being gay is the only important, identity-forming thing in their lives—anymore than a heterosexual person's straightness is the only thing in his or her life which contributes in an essential way to his or her identity. Gay people want and deserve both to not be belittled by being reduced to being only their sexuality as though they were not also full people in the whole other range of ways that straight people are, and at the same time they want and deserve not to have their sexuality treated like just an unusual kinky fetish, a dirty secret, or an embarrassing "unnatural", "disordered" urge which they "struggle to control".

How can one hate a fundamental, non-malevolent, harmless, loving, and psychologically orienting, part of a person while claiming that they simultaneously love that person. Do they even grasp what the word love means? Do they really have a good grasp on what either accepting or, minimally, respecting someone even means? Loving, or, at least, accepting and honoring gays as equal, means not hating a central part of their identities..


Matthew 7:1-5

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Proverbs 10:12

"Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs."

Ephesians 4:2

“Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.”

James 4:12

"There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

Romans 14:1-13

"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Titus 3:2-7

"To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.."

James 4:11-12

"Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

Romans 12:16-19

"Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

1 Corinthians 13:1-8

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful.."

Matthew 6:14-15

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Romans 12:10

“Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.”

1st John 4:7-8

“Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.”

Matthew 22:36-39

“Teacher,” he asked, “which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and the most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’"

1 John 4:20

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen."

John 13:34-35

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Matthew 5:22

“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”

1 Peter 4:8

"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins."

Romans 12:8

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.”

Luke 6:37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.."

John 3:17

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him."

The Pharisees, a popular Jewish renewal movement in the time of Jesus, accepted into their fellowship only men who adopted priestly purity laws in daily life. The Pharisees looked down upon the majority of the Jews as "the people of the land," the un-spiritual masses, as many people do today upon gay people.The Essenes, who gathered in Qumran near the Dead Sea, took exclusion to a level far beyond the Pharisaic standard. Entrance into the Essene community required, not only that one be a male who practiced priestly purity, but virtual separation from all who were not part of their monastic community. Not only were outsiders unwelcome in the Essene fellowship, but also they had nothing to look forward to from the Lord other than fiery judgment.

When contrasted to the exclusionary practices of the Pharisees and the Essenes, Jesus' teachings of openness, acceptance, and love to common people – even those who were ritually unclean or regarded as sinners – stands out starkly.

As Jesus said in John 8:7 - "..Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."


These teachings of love, non-judgement, and acceptance is what marks Christians apart from our modern day equivalent of the Pharisees.
 
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