Baptism - Here we go again

[Br. Bear]

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, Who was preached to you before, Whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days.
You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Act2 3:19-26

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38

Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent.
Acts 17:30

 

[Sue D.]

Then where does 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 come into the picture.

"Moreover Brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and where in ye stand; by which also ye are saved, ...... how that Christs died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures;"

That passage says nothing about including being baptized to be saved.

And then we also have Romans 10: 9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Over the years , I've tried to reconcile those verses. Cause It Sounds like a person needs to be baptized, also, for the remission of sins. Yet, we know that the thief on the cross -- the repentent one - was assured by Jesus Christ -- Christ had died 1st and then the one theif. He was assured by Jesus Christ, himself, that that very day -- He would be in Paradise with him. Which indicates that a person on their death bed does not have to be baptized in order to be completely saved.

If a person comes upon the scene of an accident and ends up leading the person to faith in Christ as the person is dying, that person has no chance To be baptized to let any one else know Of the decision that has just been made in their heart.


Repentance is definitely part Of salvation.

 

[B-A-C]

That passage says nothing about including being baptized to be saved.

You can believe half the Bible, or you can believe all the Bible.

Those who believe the verses about baptism don't have a problem with the verses about faith.
Those who only believe the verses about faith, have a problem with the verses about baptism.

Otherwise known as cherry picking.

 

[Brother-Paul]

With all due respect, brother paul, Strong's is not a lexicon. It's a simplistic and limited church dictionary and ought not be used for serious study anymore than you would use an elementary school dictionary for college writing. I posted the link to the Liddell Scott Lexicon because it's sufficient to disprove your point. For most serious Biblical Scholars, the BDAG would be referenced, if not Kittle's, but neither of these have an online presence to post a supportive link.

With due respect Rhema, I know Strong's is a dictionary. I have 18 lexicon's, in my laptop, I don't need online resources, but I chose to share Strong's word dictionary definition as it it clear for others to read.

- liddle scott
- enhanced brown driver briggs
- analytical lexicon NT Greek
- a manual Greek lexicon
- bible sense lexicon
- greek english lexicon NT
- a pocket lexicon
- lexhams lexicons, various
etc

 

[Brother-Paul]

depends who is holding the hose!!!


Bless you ....><>

We are on fire today brother

Now who was it that was holding the hose

Great to see your posts again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

(People sprinkled aren't fully wet.)
.

They certainly can be sister!

I think you are referring to Christening sprinkling where they are not fully wet.

You can be fully wet by sprinkle or pour, but at most Christenings that is not so.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Faith comes by God speaking to you. (See the Greek .)

God bless,
Rhema

Romans 10:17 NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is the Holy Spirit that works on our heart when we hear The Word.

 

[Sue D.]

Where/ when did the practice Of sprinkling come into being. I've not seen it mentioned in God's Word.

You can believe half the Bible, or you can believe all the Bible.

Those who believe the verses about baptism don't have a problem with the verses about faith.
Those who only believe the verses about faith, have a problem with the verses about baptism.

Otherwise known as cherry picking.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I believe the Entire Bible - - but for those who aren't able To be baptized -- for whatever reason -- the cross of Christ Is sufficient.

And baptism by immersion is done by born again believers in front of others -- to show to Them the belief that has already taken place in your heart. That 'you' believe that Jesus Christ Is the Son of God and that He Did die on the cross, was buried (a person is laid back in a baptisimal or a lake or river) and that He rose again bodily the 3rd day (the person is brought back up out of the water after being submerged completely symbolizing the person's new life in Christ).

 

[Brother-Paul]

And baptism by immersion is done by born again believers in front of others -- to show to Them the belief that has already taken place in your heart. That 'you' believe that Jesus Christ Is the Son of God and that He Did die on the cross, was buried (a person is laid back in a baptisimal or a lake or river) and that He rose again bodily the 3rd day (the person is brought back up out of the water after being submerged completely symbolizing the person's new life in Christ).

Sue I appreciate the full message was to @B-A-C, but can you show me where in the Bible it says, 'a person is laid back in a baptisimal or a lake or river' and that it is done by immersion.

- Fully wet Yes,

- Laid back? where in scripture?
- Immersed? where in scripture?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Where/ when did the practice Of sprinkling come into being. I've not seen it mentioned in God's Word.

Owing to the scarcity of water in some countries, and its entire absence in others, and the fatal effects sometimes resulting from the practice of baptizing infants and invalids by immersion, some changed to what we call today “sprinkling,” in which sometimes water and sometimes blood was used.

This method refers back to OT times, sprinkling blood was a cleansing ritual a purification ritual.

The practice began in the OT, see Leviticus, See Moses writings about sprinkling of blood.

This practice was carried over into the NT, baptism is a cleaning act or ritual, Jesus was as we know baptised by John, who used water for the purification and forgiveness of sins.

Christ's blood was shed for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Sue D.]

Look at Acts 8 :36 -- vs 39 "and when they had come up out of the water " The eunich requested to be baptized.

When a person is laid in a casket -- they are laying on their back. Same thing when the casket is buried -- under ground.

 

[Sue D.]

Infant baptism is never seen in Scripture. A person has to be old enough to understand right from wrong and realize their personal need For salvation before they Can be saved. That can happen as young as 5 or 6 yrs. of age. But even Then, a person has to be careful that the youngster is simply not wanting to please the older person. Each person needs to be able to make their own decision.

The Old Testament practices were having to be repeated yearly Until the Final sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb of God in the New Testament.

And Maybe it's due To the scarcity of water in some countries, that people Can't be baptized -- they are Still born-again believers.

And various belief systems Teach -- highly suggest -- a good-work's salvation.

The blood of Jesus Christ + nothing for salvation.

Another aspect to think about. The 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person -- that can be 'felt' internally in the form of a new peacefulness that hadn't been there before. That takes place automatically. And, yes, part Of the salvation 'process'. So -- in That respect -- baptism - the Holy Spirit totally 'immerses' the 'soul' of the person completely. A person isn't constantly 'full' -- the Holy Spirit Does give a believer the desire To read / study / pray.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Look at Acts 8 :36 -- vs 39 "and when they had come up out of the water " The eunich requested to be baptized.

When a person is laid in a casket -- they are laying on their back. Same thing when the casket is buried -- under ground.

They went down into the water, they came back up from the water. If I went to a river or lake, I could go down onto the water and come back up, it doesn't say, it doesn't mean I went under the water, it doesn't refer to be immersed under the a water at any point.

You are readying what isn't there Sue. It is common denominational bias. Don't take it personally, read what it says, not what you want it to say. Read what it says not what you have been taught.

If I go to a river or lake I decend from the ground down into the water, that is not immersion and definitely not laid back into the water

Shalom

 

[Waggles]

Then where does 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 come into the picture.

Again you take verses out of context and fragment the gospel into many pieces -
1Cor 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also ye received, in which also ye stand,
that would be the same gospel preached by Jesus and the other apostles and written down by the Holy Spirit through the apostles
Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

Also who is Paul writing to?? Catholics? Lutherans? Russian Orthodox? Baptists? Anglicans? NO none of these.
Paul is writing to the saints of the Spirit-filled church - the first century Pentecostal church - of one faith, one doctrine, one baptism, one way, where praying in tongues is universal.
1Cor 1:2 to the church of God which is at Corinth, those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that call in every place upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, theirs and ours:

 

[Waggles]

Another aspect to think about. The 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person

Sorry again you are incorrect - this is not scriptural - this is not true.
There are no scriptures that teach that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon "belief."

 

[B-A-C]

There are no scriptures that teach that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon "belief."

True,
There are at least 5 passages that teach exactly the opposite.

 

[Rhema]

I would also submit that being baptize in fire is not a good thing.

Can't agree there. Actually, it was a good thing.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them.​

(Acts 2:3 KJV)​

I'd caution against using modern day English aphorisms. Our phrase "baptized by fire" is a modern perversion to hide scriptural truths. It had no existence at all in first century.

But, the command wasn't to baptize with fire or the Holy Spirit.

Where is "water" actually written? (Might you post that command again?)

It was the Father who baptized with fire and the Spirit.

Not according to John the Baptist. (Was he wrong?)

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and fire:​

(Matthew 3:11 KJV)​

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Look, you both consider yourselves to be Christians because (of) the way you were brought up and (the) process that developed your belief system .

Nope.

BA2, one should avoid such presumptions. My belief is so far from the way I was brought up you'd need a rocket ship to traverse the gulf. And I'm not sure you could follow the process that developed my belief system.

It's also likely that you wouldn't consider me to be a Christian. (But time will tell.)

Rhema

 

[Sue D.]

I'll leave you folks to 'battle this out' amongst yourselfs.

 

[Rhema]

depends who is holding the hose!!!


Bless you ....><>

HOSING !!! Yet another way to get baptized !!

Dunkers and hosers and splashers... oh my!

(Love it)
Rhema