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Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

John 15:1; "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
John 15:2; "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:3; "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
John 15:4; "Remain in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me.
John 15:5; "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who remains in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
John 15:6; "If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 15:7; "If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.


The word "remain" or some Bible say "abide" here is meno.

menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.
Total KJV occurrences: 120

In this context it means "continues" or "endures" or "remains" or "stays"

It says here these branches are "in Me" (as in Jesus). It says some of the branches that are in Him don't bear fruit.
It isn't that they were never "in Me", it's that they didn't "abide, stay, remain, endure, continue" in Me.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"


In Luke there is a fig tree. It's not just any fig tree, it's a fig tree that was planted in vineyard.
This man is expecting fruit on it. He has been coming for 3 years expecting to find fruit on it. Now if this tree was dead, why would he be expecting fruit?
The grounds-keeper says I will aerate it, water it, fertilize it, and we will see if it bears fruit next year. If it doesn't cut it down.

Even when trees are being fertilized and watered by Jesus, some trees simply refuse to bear fruit.

Rom 11:16; If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
Rom 11:17; But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18; do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

If you "continue" in Jesus, great. If not He won't spare you either.
 
2 Cor 5:17 span.bible { /*color: #D97070;*/ font-size: 16px; font-weight: 400; } span.bible a { /*color: #D97070;*/ /*background-color: #FFE9E9;*/ padding: 1px 4px; border-radius: 1px; } Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.

But even new things can get dirty again.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

People are in prison... but then they "escape" (by the knowledge of Jesus)... but then they are "again" in prison. They weren't always in prison, they escaped for a while.
But "after washing" they go back to the vomit and the mud. We can't "wash" ourselves, only Jesus can make us clean. But some, after being cleaned, go back to the dirt.

1Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
 
Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Heb 6:7; For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Heb 6:8; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Some people have been made "partakers" of the Holy Spirit, they haven't just seen someone else who had it, they themselves partook of it. They've tasted it.
But then they fall away.

Anytime the Bible has a phrase like this "fall away" it means I'm no longer in a place I used to be. I can't go away from New York, If I've never been to New York.
I can't go away from my belief in Jesus, if I never had it.

Also the word "again" is here twice in verse 6. I can't repent "again" if I never repented at least once before.
I can't crucify Jesus "again" unless I've accepted His crucifixion at least once before.
 
Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:12; "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
Luke 8:15; "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.


Back to fruit again. Everyone understands fruit. It takes a while to grow.
It says in verse 13 here, some "believe for a while" and then they "fall away". It isn't that they never believed at all. They just didn't remain in that belief.

In verse 14 it says some start to bear fruit.... they couldn't bear any fruit at all unless they were in the vine (Jesus) but they never bring the fruit to maturity.
 
Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
Heb 10:28; Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29; How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

It says here in verse 29... "by which he was sanctified". This isn't written to someone who was never sanctified.
An unbeliever can't insult the Spirit of grace, unless they've had the Spirit.
 
1Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jn 2:5; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1Jn 2:6; the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

John 14:21; "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him."
John 14:22; Judas (not Iscariot) *said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"
John 14:23; Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
John 14:24; "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

If I keep the commandment, the Father will love me. What if I don't?
It says I'm a liar and I don't know Jesus

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
 
People sometimes say.. why would you ever turn your back on God? That's a good question, I don't know if I can answer.
But all through the Bible, people did it.

Deut 29:25; "Then men will say, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.
Deut 32:15; "But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Jdg 2:12; and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jdg 2:13; So they forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtaroth.
Jdg 10:6; Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him.
1Kin 9:9; "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the LORD has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2Kin 17:16; They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal.
2Kin 21:22; So he forsook the LORD, the God of his fathers, and did not walk in the way of the LORD.
2Chr 7:22; "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers who brought them from the land of Egypt, and they adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2Chr 12:1; When the kingdom of Rehoboam was established and strong, he and all Israel with him forsook the law of the LORD.
Jer 22:9; "Then they will answer, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.'"

Read the chapter of Nehemiah 9 sometime. Even when God is doing miracles all around some people, they forsake Him.
There are at least two places where God Himself did forsake people.

Isa 54:7; "For a brief moment I forsook you, But with great compassion I will gather you.

( Matt 27:46; and Mark 15:34; )
 
God is not a fool that grafts a devil into heaven just because someone says some ''magical words'' and takes a swim.

It's funny you mention that.

Ezek 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Instead of judging whether God is a fool or not, we should just take the Bible at it's word.

Satan was once a "good" angel. In fact all the angels that rebelled with Satan, the ones that went after "strange flesh" and "indulged in sexual immorality" were once good angels in heaven.

Instead of saying God is a fool for giving someone a chance to be saved.
Perhaps God is merciful in giving someone a chance to be saved.

That's the problem with all this "God knows the future/Calvinism" nonsense (I believe God DOES know the future) but he doesn't prevent anyone from trying to be saved.
Then people would have an excuse. Well God, I never accepted you because you never gave me a chance.
In fact He gives everyone a chance to accept Him, and then live for Him.

If they refuse Him, it's not because 'God is not a fool' it's because it's their personal choice.
 
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Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Heb 6:7; For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Heb 6:8; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Some people have been made "partakers" of the Holy Spirit, they haven't just seen someone else who had it, they themselves partook of it. They've tasted it.
But then they fall away.

Anytime the Bible has a phrase like this "fall away" it means I'm no longer in a place I used to be. I can't go away from New York, If I've never been to New York.
I can't go away from my belief in Jesus, if I never had it.

Also the word "again" is here twice in verse 6. I can't repent "again" if I never repented at least once before.
I can't crucify Jesus "again" unless I've accepted His crucifixion at least once before.
If a believer has God in them and God said He would never leave or forsake you, how can one "Fall Away" from God, where does one go with out God being right there?
 
If a believer has God in them and God said He would never leave or forsake you, how can one "Fall Away" from God, where does one go with out God being right there?

God IS there. He doesn't turn His back on us. We turn our backs on Him. Plenty of examples in post #127 above.
Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 talk about how God was with the Jews for 40 years in the wilderness, He clothed them, fed them, saved them from the Egyptians, talked to Moses on the mountain,
gave them quail and manna. He never left them. He never forsook them. But they forsook Him, and as a result, they never made it to the promised land. In Hebrews 3 and 4
the "promised land" (Canaan) is a metaphor for heaven/salvation.

Just because God is "with" you, isn't a guarantee you will make it to heaven. In fact, because He 'IS' with you, helping you, you have less of an excuse not to make it.
Jesus was with Judas for 3 years.
 
God IS there. He doesn't turn His back on us. We turn our backs on Him. Plenty of examples in post #127 above.
Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 talk about how God was with the Jews for 40 years in the wilderness, He clothed them, fed them, saved them from the Egyptians, talked to Moses on the mountain,
gave them quail and manna. He never left them. He never forsook them. But they forsook Him, and as a result, they never made it to the promised land. In Hebrews 3 and 4
the "promised land" (Canaan) is a metaphor for heaven/salvation.

Just because God is "with" you, isn't a guarantee you will make it to heaven. In fact, because He 'IS' with you, helping you, you have less of an excuse not to make it.
Jesus was with Judas for 3 years.
That just shows how little you understand:
1. God was with them , not in them!
2. Man's heart is flickeled and corrupt.
3.The ONLY way "make" it to God's presence is to have Him in you!
4. Doesn't matter how long Judas was "with" Jesus, the point is Judas never was a believer in Jesus.
5. Putting Jesus in you didn't begin until His Crucifiction and subsequent Ressurection. When Jesus died the Temple Vail was torn into...representing that God had left the Temple.
6. Jesus ushered in the New Covenant, where by Gid would reside in the hearts of Believers.
 
3. Does God make mistakes?
NO but mere mortals make lots of mistakes.
Mistakes such as forgetting they were cleansed from their former sins.

Matthew 22:12 and saith to him, Friend, how camest thou in hither having no wedding-garment? And HE was speechless.
22:13 Then the king said to the ministers, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few chosen.
 
Yes, Christians can do these things, we have the Holy Spirit with us. Doing these things does not make us a Christian though.
According to Jesus if a believer has these signs following them then they are indeed a disciple, a believer.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;
No one is moving goal posts. Jesus declares this about saved believers. And they are these who he is referring to in Matthew 7 when he warns quite clearly that not all saved believers will enter the kingdom of Heaven because they have failed in continuing to do righteousness and have relapsed back into sinning (iniquity or lawlessness). Akin to the warnings in 1John.
 
If I go and ask fifty Christians if they are right with God right now and then kill them all. Thereby gaurantee'ing they all go to heaven. Would I be considered a hero among your anti-OSAS friends?
Lets say if I did not do this, 35 would fall into temptation, lose their salvation and go to hell for all eternity. I must be a hero, right?
I am sorry but I stopped asking silly questions about doctrine years ago.
I remember our religious instruction classes with our Catholic Catechisms, and how we were inventive with lots of "what if" such and such happened.
But then I grew up and put childish nonsense behind me.
 
John 15:4; "Remain in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me.
and @KingJ
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. Even as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine; thus neither ye, unless ye abide in me.
Here is clear admonition that even if one abides in Christ (through the Holy Spirit) a disciple must continue to abide in Christ - this verse warns us that one can fail to abide in Christ.
and the consequences for this are ...
John 15:6 Unless one abide in me, he is cast forth as the branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Remember Lot's wife.
 
NO but mere mortals make lots of mistakes.
Mistakes such as forgetting they were cleansed from their former sins.

Matthew 22:12 and saith to him, Friend, how camest thou in hither having no wedding-garment? And HE was speechless.
22:13 Then the king said to the ministers, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few chosen.
So God doesn't make mistakes and He said that He would never leave or forsake you. And everyone at TJ would agree that God saves by His own desire, then, if He saves a person, why is it so hard to accept that person stays saved?
 
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