Contemporary Judaizers

[brakelite]

It has never been that the Law is not right, it's just that it is no longer offered, even to the Jew.

The writer to the Hebrews went to great lengths to explain the nature of the new covenant, and why the old was faulty. As RJ said, the fault was with the people. A faulty promise to obey, rather than to believe.
The writer of Hebrews also made it clear that the new covenant was not for a geographical entity, but a people who by faith believe in the promises. I disagree with your premise NC that the law is no longer offered. In fact, the whole concept of the new covenant has the law at its heart.

Heb:8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The original promise was made to Israel through Jeremiah. It is clear that the law God is referring to is that very law which He gave to Israel on the stone tablets. The covenant regarding that law...that on the condition of obedience (which the people foolishly promised they would do) God would bless, was broken because Israel failed to live up to their side of the bargain. So, in mercy and grace God decided to make a new covenant, based on better promises. He didn't ask Israel to make any promises before, and today, He isn't asking His people to make any promises either. The promise all belongs to Him. All we are required to do is believe and accept.
Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


2 Cor. 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

And what is it that is offered to us if we believe?

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts

The claim is made that the law was only given to the house of Israel, and thus irrelevant to the NT Christian. I got news for you. Unless you are now a part of the house of Israel, to whom the promise was made, you have no part in the new covenant.

 

[NoHype]

The writer to the Hebrews went to great lengths to explain the nature of the new covenant, and why the old was faulty. As RJ said, the fault was with the people. A faulty promise to obey, rather than to believe.
The writer of Hebrews also made it clear that the new covenant was not for a geographical entity, but a people who by faith believe in the promises. I disagree with your premise NC that the law is no longer offered. In fact, the whole concept of the new covenant has the law at its heart.

Heb:8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The original promise was made to Israel through Jeremiah. It is clear that the law God is referring to is that very law which He gave to Israel on the stone tablets. The covenant regarding that law...that on the condition of obedience (which the people foolishly promised they would do) God would bless, was broken because Israel failed to live up to their side of the bargain. So, in mercy and grace God decided to make a new covenant, based on better promises. He didn't ask Israel to make any promises before, and today, He isn't asking His people to make any promises either. The promise all belongs to Him. All we are required to do is believe and accept.
Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


2 Cor. 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

And what is it that is offered to us if we believe?

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts

The claim is made that the law was only given to the house of Israel, and thus irrelevant to the NT Christian. I got news for you. Unless you are now a part of the house of Israel, to whom the promise was made, you have no part in the new covenant.

Very, very good.

The reason why knowing that is especially important to us as believers on Christ Jesus is because by The Holy Spirit is HOW God puts His laws into our minds and hearts to follow after righteousness.

For the believer on Christ that walks by The Spirit, like Apostle Paul says in Gal.5, with doing that we won't be doing anything that is against God's laws, because the good fruits Paul mentioned, there is no law against those good works.

A modern real world example of this could be like with a born-again believer on Christ at work with his co-worker friends, and his friends decide to get together after work and hire some prostitutes to have some fun, and they want him to participate.

If that born-again believer is truly born-again with walking by The Holy Spirit, he is going to receive a red flag from The Spirit warning him inwardly to not participate in that sin. That is an example of God writing His laws in the minds and hearts of His people per NT Hebrews, and per the Jeremiah prophecy.

And just in case some want to try and say that the Book of Hebrews was written only for Jews, there's this...

Heb 10:15-21
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
(KJV)

 

[NetChaplain]

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Notice the next covenant with Israel will not include anything in the Old Covenant (Jer 31:32).

 

[NetChaplain]

I concur with this:

“One of the profound emphases of the New Testament, especially the epistles of Paul, is that Christians are no longer under the rule of the Mosaic law. This truth is stated in no uncertain terms and in various ways (see Rom. 6:14; 7:1-14; Gal. 3:10-13, 24-25; 4:21; 5:1, 13; 2 Cor. 3:7-18), but in spite of this, there have always been those who insist that the Mosaic Law, at least the Ten Commandments, are still in force for the Christian.

“There are Christian teachers of repute who consider the Mosaic law to be the present-day rule of life for the Christian. 1 A view not infrequently found among earnest, orthodox believers is that although we are not saved by the law, once we have been justified by faith, then the Mosaic law becomes our rule of life. Those holding such a view generally make a sharp division of the Mosaic law into two parts, which they distinguish as the moral and the ceremonial.

“The ceremonial portion they consider as having found its fulfillment in Christ at His first advent, and thus as having now passed away. But the moral portion of the Mosaic law, say they, is still in force as the believer’s rule of life. The treatment given to Christian ethics by some highly respected authors is indeed but little more than an exposition of the Decalogue.

“It seems exceedingly strange that Bible-believing Christians should advocate such a view, when the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that the believer in Christ is not any longer under the Mosaic law in its entirety… Indeed after having been delivered from the law, to deliberately place ourselves once again under its [control] is said to be “falling from grace.”

“But let it be immediately understood that this does not mean to say that we should necessarily behave in a manner just opposite to what the Mosaic law commands—that we should kill, steal, bear false witness, etc. Long before the law was given through Moses, it was utterly wrong to do such evil things.”

https://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-its-function-and-purpose-new-testament

 

[NoHype]

Notice the next covenant with Israel will not include anything in the Old Covenant (Jer 31:32).

Well, you've done it again NC. You misquoted me!

I did not post any of the Jeremiah Scripture where you're quoting me from above. That was brakelite who posted that Jer.31 Scripture.

I quoted from Hebrews 10.

Furthermore, the Old Covenant does not simply mean the Old Testament Books. And the whole gist of what others above have tried to show you with this Hebrews 8 & 10 quote from Jeremiah 31:31-32 Scripture is how God's laws are to be written in the minds and hearts of believers on Christ Jesus, meaning NOT done away with at all, but established by The Holy Spirit, a working beyond any flesh idea! And, it's not about the part of God's law that involved religious ceremonial worship, because that part of God's law our Lord Jesus nailed upon His cross. That's what the 'handwriting of ordinances' in the law is about which involved the Old Covenant which is no more.

 

[NetChaplain]

Well, you've done it again NC. You misquoted me!

I did not post any of the Jeremiah Scripture where you're quoting me from above. That was brakelite who posted that Jer.31 Scripture.

Excuse me, your correct and will be more careful!

 

[brakelite]

Notice the next covenant with Israel will not include anything in the Old Covenant (Jer 31:32).

What "next" covenant NC? Hebrews 10 makes it clear that the new covenant with Israel had already been established prior to the writing of the letter, and was ratified by the blood of Christ. The ' Israel' referred to here can only be the church. And just as the old covenant had the law at its heart, so also does the new.
There is so much misunderstanding of the covenants and the relationship they have with the law.
Allow me to chronologically relate the events.

• The Ten Commandments, God's law, spoken verbally then written on stone and given to Israel.
• Because of transgression against the above law, God instituted the law of Moses.
• This was a temporary measure showing the gospel in types and symbols to the nation until the fulfilment came in the embodiment of the Messiah.
• Jesus comes and one of the first things He says is Matt.5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore NC while the covenant has changed, the "change in the law" spoken of in Hebrews does not refwer to the Ten Commandments, but to the handwriting of ordinances as nohype said, the law of Moses.

 

[brakelite]

I concur with this:

“One of the profound emphases of the New Testament, especially the epistles of Paul, is that Christians are no longer under the rule of the Mosaic law. This truth is stated in no uncertain terms and in various ways (see Rom. 6:14; 7:1-14; Gal. 3:10-13, 24-25; 4:21; 5:1, 13; 2 Cor. 3:7-18), but in spite of this, there have always been those who insist that the Mosaic Law, at least the Ten Commandments, are still in force for the Christian.

“There are Christian teachers of repute who consider the Mosaic law to be the present-day rule of life for the Christian. 1 A view not infrequently found among earnest, orthodox believers is that although we are not saved by the law, once we have been justified by faith, then the Mosaic law becomes our rule of life. Those holding such a view generally make a sharp division of the Mosaic law into two parts, which they distinguish as the moral and the ceremonial.

“The ceremonial portion they consider as having found its fulfillment in Christ at His first advent, and thus as having now passed away. But the moral portion of the Mosaic law, say they, is still in force as the believer’s rule of life. The treatment given to Christian ethics by some highly respected authors is indeed but little more than an exposition of the Decalogue.

“It seems exceedingly strange that Bible-believing Christians should advocate such a view, when the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that the believer in Christ is not any longer under the Mosaic law in its entirety… Indeed after having been delivered from the law, to deliberately place ourselves once again under its [control] is said to be “falling from grace.”

“But let it be immediately understood that this does not mean to say that we should necessarily behave in a manner just opposite to what the Mosaic law commands—that we should kill, steal, bear false witness, etc. Long before the law was given through Moses, it was utterly wrong to do such evil things.”

https://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-its-function-and-purpose-new-testament

This article above articulates clearly the confusion so many experience when dealing with the law. There are two laws. The Laws of God, and the laws of Moses. It is the law of Moses from which we are no longer under obligation to obey. The laws of God are eternal, permanent, and are always to be obeyed.

Paul clearly spoke of two quite different laws. Here is an example where he speaks of the Mosaic law,
Gal. 3:10-13 " For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:.....no man is justified by the law..... the law is not of faith: .....
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,..."

He also wrote of God's law;
Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law....7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[RJ]

What "next" covenant NC? Hebrews 10 makes it clear that the new covenant with Israel had already been established prior to the writing of the letter, and was ratified by the blood of Christ. The ' Israel' referred to here can only be the church. And just as the old covenant had the law at its heart, so also does the new.
There is so much misunderstanding of the covenants and the relationship they have with the law.
Allow me to chronologically relate the events.

• The Ten Commandments, God's law, spoken verbally then written on stone and given to Israel.
• Because of transgression against the above law, God instituted the law of Moses.
• This was a temporary measure showing the gospel in types and symbols to the nation until the fulfilment came in the embodiment of the Messiah.
• Jesus comes and one of the first things He says is Matt.5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore NC while the covenant has changed, the "change in the law" spoken of in Hebrews does not refwer to the Ten Commandments, but to the handwriting of ordinances as nohype said, the law of Moses.

• brakelite, I have been suscribe to this thread for some time now.
• I would appreciate it if you would clarify something for me:
• As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments?

 

[NetChaplain]

This article above articulates clearly the confusion so many experience when dealing with the law

There will always exist a difference in understanding concerning who Israel is (Abraham's posterity only, or all in Christ), thus, there will always be a difference in belief's concerning many Israel/Church related Bible doctrine, esp. concerning eschatology.

 

[RJ]

There will always exist a difference in understanding concerning who Israel is (Abraham's posterity only, or all in Christ), thus, there will always be a difference in belief's concerning many Israel/Church related Bible doctrine, esp. concerning eschatology.

From what I understand there are many different eschatologies:

• Christian Eschatology: study of the end or end times as Jesus Christ as the messiah.
• Jewish Eschatology: study the of the end or end times with the Messiah to still come.
• It appears to me that an Orthodox Jew would believe in Jewish Eschatology and that as brakelite stated: "The laws of God are eternal, permanent, and are always to be obeyed".
• Most Christians would believe that the Ten Commandments, as holy and righteous as they are, have been replaced fully by the law of grace which love replaces them. Galatians 5:14, Matthew 22:37-40 and Romans 13:8-10

 

[NoHype]

• brakelite, I have been suscribe to this thread for some time now.
• I would appreciate it if you would clarify something for me:
• As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments?

I can answer that, but with a question.

What does Hebrews 8 & 10 about God writing His laws in our hearts and minds have to do with that? Is He just writing blanks for those in Christ Jesus per that?

 

[RJ]

I can answer that, but with a question.

What does Hebrews 8 & 10 about God writing His laws in our hearts and minds have to do with that? Is He just writing blanks for those in Christ Jesus per that?

• With all due respect my question was for brakelite and I hope he answers it with out another question. I would be more than glad to answer your question but mine first please.

 

[NoHype]

• With all due respect my question was for brakelite and I hope he answers it with out another question. I would be more than glad to answer your question but mine first please.

No worries mate.

 

[RJ]

No worries mate.

I have no objection if you want to chime in on my Ten Commandent question: "As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments" ?

 

[NoHype]

I have no objection if you want to chime in on my Ten Commandent question: "As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments" ?

If I give answer to that now, how can I not help but bring up my previous question about God writing His laws into the hearts and minds of the believer on Christ Jesus per The New Covenant?

 

[RJ]

If I give answer to that now, how can I not help but bring up my previous question about God writing His laws into the hearts and minds of the believer on Christ Jesus per The New Covenant?

I see were you are headed. I tell you what brother, you answer my question first and I promise to include my answer to your question in my response, O.K.?

 

[NoHype]

I see were you are headed. I tell you what brother, you answer my question first and I promise to include my answer to your question in my response, O.K.?

Please look at the new post I put up called "Flesh Vs. Spirit And God's Law". I cover Apostle Paul's Roman 7 chapter line upon line there. That should be a valid enough response to your question.

 

[RJ]

Please look at the new post I put up called "Flesh Vs. Spirit And God's Law". I cover Apostle Paul's Roman 7 chapter line upon line there. That should be a valid enough response to your question.

• Again I ask you (first) a simple question and you give another question or a long discussion about some verses and what you believe but not answer me with a simple yes or no !
• "As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments" ?.....Please, just a simple yes or no.

 

[brakelite]

• brakelite, I have been suscribe to this thread for some time now.
• I would appreciate it if you would clarify something for me:
• As we are under the New Covenant and the law of grace, are you saying we are still under and must follow the Ten Commandments?

Yes and no. If we are keeping the Ten Commandments, we are 'not under them'. To be 'under the law' means to be under its condemnation. It is the opposite of grace. Forgiveness/guilt. Grace and mercy/condemnation. Grace doesn't displace obedience. It empowers it.The issue so little understood is that the new covenant doesn't do away with the ten commandments, but rather provides us with an airtight solution to how we are to obey them. Our problem RJ isn't the law of God. As Paul said, they are holy, just, and good. Our problem RJ is us. Our rebellious natures. It is our natures that needed changing, not the law we were rebelling against.
So Jesus came to institute, through His death, the opportunity for a new birth. We may, through faith in Him, become new creatures. The new creature RJ, the new creation, is not like the old that died in Christ. The new is new in every way. Though it may look the same, inside, it has the unlimited power of God at its disposal. This power RJ is the same power that raised Christ from the dead, and it is by the indwelling Holy Spirit that God writes His laws upon our hearts.
RJ, I know I said this before, but I cannot stress it enough. Our obedience to the law is essential, and obligatory, it is how we go about that obedience that makes all the difference between legalism and grace.

The Galatians who were being deceived into accepting the ‘Judaizers’ rather than the simplicity of the gospel, certainly had a problem. The problem was not that they were keeping the sabbaths and feasts of the old sanctuary services, (as Paul himself still observed them) , but rather that they were trusting in that observation as a means to being justified. Similar in fact to those who in Jeremiah’s time were saying “The Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord are these”; trusting in historical links to Abraham and Moses rather than in God Himself.

Would anyone dare suggest that it was not wrong to steal? If I as a Christian teach that stealing is morally indefensible which of you would accuse me of legalism?If however I taught that by being honest, I would then be justified before God, then your accusations of ‘Judaising’ and legalism etc would be justifiable.

Therefore, our obedience does not justify us. Obedience has never justified anyone, the just have always lived by faith. Any obedience RJ comes after our having received Christ, not before. Therefore it is a fruit of our relationship with Him, a sure sign of the sanctifying process now under way.

The question you must ask yourself RJ, and anyone else reading this, is are you willing to obey God commandments???
If so, then through faith and trust in Him, by the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling you, you will be able to obey all of God's commandments.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in all that walk in the Spirit (they walk in faith). Romans 8:4

The next question is of course "how does God do this"?
Well like I said, He indwells us by His Spirit, He writes His law on our hearts, He empowers us to accomplish what before was impossible. And He does this by filling us with His LOVE. There is the key.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And RJ, I would add that just as love fulfills the law regards the last 6 commandments regarding our relationships to our fellow man, love also enables us to honor the first four commandments relating to our duty toward God.