Do we have freewill ? did we have freewill since the beginning ?

[Bill]

And love is how God shows he can change the universe and chaneg timelines and move things in a better way ? Yes. God could end our civilization end this and do another things and change us all. God can erase form our minds and erase in that instant to israelites in the desert to forget moses amde that error or send an angel in that instant stop him from making that error nothing is impossible to the lord. God can but he wants us to learn he wants us to love he wants us to be in his story in our universe.


Truly he can change it all make it perfect he is God. God of gods, but by doing those things he lets us see the blindspot to our advantage that we can change our destiny to be president to be the secret things he sent you here to know what purpose, to do more than we our just simple human beings but with him we can change the future and be what we want. Some of you do not understand that because you do not know becuase you don't know why your here but I know why i'm here and know those secret stuff becuase he told us all why he sent us here from heaven and it's in the bible and your personal life to know what those things are.
Some of us will the real things of the bible and when we know we realize he a bigger plan than we know he wanted us to do the secret stuff of the bible. ;D.

Good words

 

[emanuel88]

Bill be the person you were before he sent you here, find what he sent you here ;D. He loves you and sent you here for a mission I know mines with my family. Perhaps you have done it or you haven't do not know that. But he gave a purpose and a mission the lord. Ask him so you can do it and you can find the real things in the bible and not what the catholic church interceded and they force people for hundres fo years their dominance.

It's only God's dominance not mine or yours in this world. I'm sure you can find the real things in the bible. ;D good friend.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Yes.

Yes.

If you believe that mankind is made in the image of God, then yes, we definitely have free will. The right question to ask is, do we KEEP free will? 'cause most drug addicts don't appear to have one, their brain chemistry is permanently altered. Even for most normal people who don't have a drug addiction or any kind of serious addiction, as they age, they slowly submit to their habits, the ability to EXERCISE that free will by making a choice out of the ordinary appears to be weaker and weaker, and eventually they just give in to whatever their circumstances have to offer.

 

[PloughBoy]

 

[PloughBoy]

If you believe that mankind is made in the image of God, then yes, we definitely have free will. The right question to ask is, do we KEEP free will? 'cause most drug addicts don't appear to have one, their brain chemistry is permanently altered. Even for most normal people who don't have a drug addiction or any kind of serious addiction, as they age, they slowly submit to their habits, the ability to EXERCISE that free will by making a choice out of the ordinary appears to be weaker and weaker, and eventually they just give in to whatever their circumstances have to offer.

Well If then of this, being Not The "indicative" but referring to the now and the affirming of that past declaration of an "Imperative".
Your Quote: but The beginning with an "IF" Is a good introduction" before we enter the Freewill of Mankind, before the Fall and after The Fall and what happen. "Freewill to do what"

Back to "The Indicative and" The Imperative".
The Who image is this that we will look like?

1 John 3:2
American Standard Version
Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, We Shall Be Like Him; for we shall see him even as he is.

NASB 1977 2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man is in Christ, He Is A New Creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

And when we Change, who Image will we be IN ? And we all know that GOD is IMMUTABLE!

1 Corinthians 15 ASV
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, But We Shall All Be Changed, 52In a MOMENT, IN the Twinkling Of An Eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting? 56The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law: 57but thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


And After we change Who Image shall we be In? And GOD is IMMUTABLE !

Let us read The Book of The Acts of The Apostles together not to study it but to read it only & look what happen throughout it Pre 1984 KJV as 1

April 18, 2023 Acts 14: 8-20 (KJV, NIV84) Apostle Paul, The Rebel Rouser, he always was causing disturbing the peace and causing Riots in peaceful cities. Definition: "Rebel Rouser" ["a person who makes a group of people angry, excited, or violent (such as by giving speeches) especially in...

www.talkjesus.com

Note: I have Study "Luther" and "Edwards" both "The Bondage of The will" and "The Freedom of The will" many many many years ago. and Understand what happen in "The Fall in The Garden"

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If you believe that mankind is made in the image of God, then yes, we definitely have free will. The right question to ask is, do we KEEP free will? 'cause most drug addicts don't appear to have one, their brain chemistry is permanently altered. Even for most normal people who don't have a drug addiction or any kind of serious addiction, as they age, they slowly submit to their habits, the ability to EXERCISE that free will by making a choice out of the ordinary appears to be weaker and weaker, and eventually they just give in to whatever their circumstances have to offer.

Suicide (by drugs, or more efficient means) is a free-will choice.

 

[PloughBoy]

Struggling with Sin {Roman 7:20 BSB}
…19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.…

Since the Fall everyone is in "Bondage" to sin and if in Christ they have a SAVIOR and he Paid a price to Delivery them from "The BONDAGES of SIN" and be set them free in Christ and now They Are In The Bondages of "Righteousness"

But I know many have their own interpretation of the bondages of sin and the bondages of righteousness. What ever one has the freewill to do and the freewill believeth. so be it.

And Pelagianism says mankind have a choice to chose right or wrong, That mankind has the ability to chose God on his own. he has freewill. and no need from help from GOD to make choices in this capacity.

The Pelagian controversy refers to the early Christian debate between Pelagius and Augustine over original sin. Pelagius held that salvation was possible without the grace of God, as human beings were born without sin. Augustine held the opposite, and his view was adopted as church doctrine.
One may read the Whole Controversy and not take a piece of The controversy and lodge on that all alone.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Suicide (by drugs, or more efficient means) is a free-will choice.

That’s weird, I never mentioned suicide, don’t drag me into that rabbit hole. What I asked is, do we keep free will? It is irrefutable that God has free will, his divine council has, all the angels has, so as their imagers, so do we. We are not robots, but do we slowly become robots? That’s the path with least resistance, compared to exercising your free will. Drug abuse may accelerate this progress of becoming a robot.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That’s weird, I never mentioned suicide, don’t drag me into that rabbit hole. What I asked is, do we keep free will? It is irrefutable that God has free will, his divine council has, all the angels has, so as their imagers, so do we. We are not robots, but do we slowly become robots? That’s the path with least resistance, compared to exercising your free will. Drug abuse may accelerate this progress of becoming a robot.

And we enter into drug abuse of our own free will and we remain in it of our own free will. Could be we'll also "Kick it" of our own free will. As a drug counselor once told me that, a person won't CHANGE, until the pain of being what they are exceeds the pain of change. Lots of folks nowadays, are killing themselves out of their own free will which sometimes has unexpected consequences.

Actions, after all sometimes DO have consequences, but there's nothing about that which has any effect on our free will. When God gives one the conciousness of their REAL (hell bound) status before HIM (conviction of SIN), we're totally free to either surrender, and repent, or cut and run back into death. You could PRETEND to be a "robot" I suppose, but you're still totally responsible for your own actions that you did of your own free will,

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

And we enter into drug abuse of our own free will and we remain in it of our own free will. Could be we'll also "Kick it" of our own free will. As a drug counselor once told me that, a person won't CHANGE, until the pain of being what they are exceeds the pain of change. Lots of folks nowadays, are killing themselves out of their own free will which sometimes has unexpected consequences.

Actions, after all sometimes DO have consequences, but there's nothing about that which has any effect on our free will. When God gives one the conciousness of their REAL (hell bound) status before HIM (conviction of SIN), we're totally free to either surrender, and repent, or cut and run back into death. You could PRETEND to be a "robot" I suppose, but you're still totally responsible for your own actions that you did of your own free will,

We don't "pretend" to be a robot, we have a natural TENDENCY to be a robot because that's easy, the way of the flesh, the path of least resistance. Using our brain and exercising our free will is hard. It's the sin of sloth manifested in a spiritual way. Our spiritual strength is the ability to exercise our free will, and I believe it's subject to the "use it or lose it" principle, also known as the Matthew effect - "those who have will receive more, those who don't have, the little they have will be taken away."

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The purpose of free will is more relevant than the question of "whether we have free will or not".

 

[emanuel88]

Remember there many definitions of freewill. Determinism, freewill modern liberalism, freewill biblical, freewill your own experience, and freewill thru God his way when he created creationa nd from Jesus point of view how he wanted. We are all learning freewill and we are seeing the deep of.

 

[emanuel88]

It helps to discuss the promblem of sin and salvation what your aiming but i'm talking about freewill before our creation because were past that and now talking about sin and freedom of sin into beinga child of God but growth and becoming is part of growth there. You don't know all the areas of freewill , I reccomend you read this again since you are only talking one part.

There is more freewill in it's different stages and you only get growth and becoming child of God. There is Why, Satan rebbelion ? Which proves freewill existed and it' philosophy is not comprehended and Freewill God had that he gave us and we have it small but still we can do some things and the freewill Adam had we can do also.

There is that and we can use freewill like god intended tell me do you know that freewill existed in Eden, before it, and we use it ?

Do you have freewill let me ask you and do agree determinism or don't believe in God's sovereignty that he put the path and you can change it ? Do you believe or you cannot change destiny ?

God has let paths be changed he has let us choose, Israel and all of us were destined to be in sin forever because of the fall but thru Jesus we can change our path and be saved simple. But some people won't go there but continue that everything has been planned by God and even the small things are decided for us ! And say God is unfair, we cannot Judge but God decided for us to protect us for a reason.

Don't complicate yourself be free of salvation and put things in God hands ask him to give you freewill under his wise wisdom and he chose the path becuase of the plan of God. Everything is connected in life and to find the secrets of freewill we will find the secret of Why, were here why God choose this for us and the purpose of why he sent us here. Know he's will and you will find what is the plan of God.

 

[emanuel88]

Believe God lets us believe in him, we can be like him. Smaller but with us to use our imagination or consciouness to use freewill. What we believe can come true his will is in us. But we must use love in order to use how he wants us to believe were made to be like him in a smaller way. But still we cannot accomplsih love so he came as a man and as Jesus to show us who to love and to believe and doing so be like Jesus and believe your Jesus and you will obtain the secret of freewill. Find why he sent you Plouhgboy and will find what he wants and he will reveal more secrets you don't know.

It's faith and believing are together once you do he''s will you will know thru tests in life what he wants and why he sent you here. Ploughboy, perhaps you saved the life of someone you dont' know or you been born made your parents want you more and became great person you are. or the person you fall in love is what he sent you for or the one that is also important we are his witness and when we go we will become his witness in the judgement day against the devil a great honor to be against the devil ;D.

There is more to life than this and finding the purpose of God is what he wants us to find and what he tolds us before he sents us here is sometimes depends for all of us. pray to him Plouhgboy and you can find it.

 

[emanuel88]

 

[Bill]

Believe God lets us believe in him, we can be like him. Smaller but with us to use our imagination or consciouness to use freewill. What we believe can come true his will is in us. But we must use love in order to use how he wants us to believe were made to be like him in a smaller way. But still we cannot accomplsih love so he came as a man and as Jesus to show us who to love and to believe and doing so be like Jesus and believe your Jesus and you will obtain the secret of freewill. Find why he sent you Plouhgboy and will find what he wants and he will reveal more secrets you don't know.

It's faith and believing are together once you do he''s will you will know thru tests in life what he wants and why he sent you here. Ploughboy, perhaps you saved the life of someone you dont' know or you been born made your parents want you more and became great person you are. or the person you fall in love is what he sent you for or the one that is also important we are his witness and when we go we will become his witness in the judgement day against the devil a great honor to be against the devil ;D.

There is more to life than this and finding the purpose of God is what he wants us to find and what he tolds us before he sents us here is sometimes depends for all of us. pray to him Plouhgboy and you can find it.

The Holy Spirit draws us to the Father, always. But it is us who choose to allow the Spirit to draw us or not. We can push back, we could commit sins. ( pushing back or doing something else is not always sinful.) <<< example, the apostles were asked by Jesus to pray with Him. But they chose to sleep instead

 

[Bill]

It helps to discuss the promblem of sin and salvation what your aiming but i'm talking about freewill before our creation because were past that and now talking about sin and freedom of sin into beinga child of God but growth and becoming is part of growth there. You don't know all the areas of freewill , I reccomend you read this again since you are only talking one part.

There is more freewill in it's different stages and you only get growth and becoming child of God. There is Why, Satan rebbelion ? Which proves freewill existed and it' philosophy is not comprehended and Freewill God had that he gave us and we have it small but still we can do some things and the freewill Adam had we can do also.

There is that and we can use freewill like god intended tell me do you know that freewill existed in Eden, before it, and we use it ?

Do you have freewill let me ask you and do agree determinism or don't believe in God's sovereignty that he put the path and you can change it ? Do you believe or you cannot change destiny ?

God has let paths be changed he has let us choose, Israel and all of us were destined to be in sin forever because of the fall but thru Jesus we can change our path and be saved simple. But some people won't go there but continue that everything has been planned by God and even the small things are decided for us ! And say God is unfair, we cannot Judge but God decided for us to protect us for a reason.

Don't complicate yourself be free of salvation and put things in God hands ask him to give you freewill under his wise wisdom and he chose the path becuase of the plan of God. Everything is connected in life and to find the secrets of freewill we will find the secret of Why, were here why God choose this for us and the purpose of why he sent us here. Know he's will and you will find what is the plan of God.

I cannot get past your first line, "free will before creation".

Sorry to say, LOL, there was no free will before creation

 

[Bill]

Bill be the person you were before he sent you here, find what he sent you here ;D. He loves you and sent you here for a mission I know mines with my family. Perhaps you have done it or you haven't do not know that. But he gave a purpose and a mission the lord. Ask him so you can do it and you can find the real things in the bible and not what the catholic church interceded and they force people for hundres fo years their dominance.

It's only God's dominance not mine or yours in this world. I'm sure you can find the real things in the bible. ;D good friend.

In regards to this letter that you wrote me, if you are saying be the person before God created me then that is kind of foolish don't you think. Or be the person that I was before God sent me here that's kind of foolish too. It would be like telling Jonah to be the person he was before he was sent to Nineveh.

And by the way, I feel I have a close relationship with Jonah. As his experience is close to my own in some ways.

 

[emanuel88]

I cannot get past your first line, "free will before creation".

Sorry to say, LOL, there was no free will before creation

God had freewill to decide before creation was to creat things he was under control of anyone but himself and he was free of any control from anyone. He created everything as he wanted.

 

[emanuel88]

Bill I will ask you to look inside yoruself and ask yourself who you were it says the bible he knew us before he sent us here.

Isaiah 49:5

And now the Lord says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him— for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God has become my strength.

Jeremiah 1:5

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

God knows us and he tells in various verses he knew who we are !

Now I was talking God created Earth and before he knew you, Bill. Not before creation of the universe. just to say that and explain. God knows us before he sent us, is there are plan eh ahs for you ?

Yes, 3 plans to simplify you all.

Human Plan: The plan you have when your in this world and taught. To be a writter and a worker or what they tell you in school.

The plan of JEsus: To save you and you are saved by his blood.

The plan of God since the Eden to make heaven into Earth and do his will. “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” - Matthew 6:10

The plan he told you to do while you are in heaven and sent you here for a Reason.

It could be the person in the plan of humanity to be the dentist or doctor to save the life of the person God wanted you to do, it could be the person to preach the word and become a pastor to guide oher perhaps Bill the eprson who guided you to be a christian was your father or mother and his plan was to tell him to be your dad and be God's witness not to participate to be of the world to be a soldier or to be a rich banker but to be a good chrsitain so when the end comes and God holds the accuser th devil in front of you in ehaven he will say Bill was faithful to me and he did not go your way !

God has a plan for you Bill and perhaps you have done part of it or you have not. The bible says we know him and we are part of his plan. He wanted su to do something special in this world beside the plan of God, the plan of Jesus of sending his son as saviour, and the plan of this world is part of his plan of God. But also there is plan of his that before he sent us he gave us personnel mission to do something pfor the person we love. It could be our father and mother to be their children and help them, it could be our true love and that we find her, or she God gives us more of his plan of God. It could be more does God do things in mysterious ways and they come out not like we wanted but like he wanted ? Yes. thru miracles and prophets God change the plan of men and women to show his plan and wanted them to breaktrhu and find why he sent them in personal mission and secret way.

If you were the people of God you will understand the secrets of God, you do not know of this secret i'm talking about Bill. I will ask to ask God for light in that way that you may do the plans God wants and find the secret thing he made you for and you don't know.

I know mine and I discover thru pain and sufferment sometimes to know that secret in life, Bill be like a child and be the child God talks in heaven. It is said that to enter the kingdom like Jesus you must be a like a child again and you will know why you were sent here ;D. Find the secrets of why God sent you, your personal mission.

You tell me you don't know this things it just shows me you dont' the personal mission God sent you here. Go find it becuase I found it and it does exist.

1 Corinthians 3:2

I gave you milk, not solid food, because you were not yet ready for it. But you aren’t ready for it now either !

Thus God have a plan and does he know us before we were borned ?

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11​

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. – Psalm 139:16
Ephesians 1:4 Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Here we are know before the foundation.
The Lord will fulfill his purpose for me; your steadfast love, O Lord, endures forever. Do not forsake the work of your hands. – Psalm 138:8

The plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of His heart through all generations. - Psalm 33:11​

Making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. – Ephesians 1:9-10
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. – Philippians 1:6
Tit 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness-- a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.
Here is one that says before the creation of time !

Commit your work to the Lord, and your plans will be established. The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. - Proverbs 16:3-4​

But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him.” – 1 Corinthians 2:9​

Has planned you bill and eh has a purpose for you, I relazied you don't know that purpose.

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. - Proverbs 3:5-6​

Don't trust in your understanding but bill but God's and pray for that direction ;D.

The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps. – Proverbs 16:9

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. – Romans 8:28

You have been sent here for a reason Bill I ask you to find the Lord will wanted it and he wants us to be with him.