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Does Anybody Believe in Hell?

Actually -- God's Word Does teach the existence of hell. That has been in another thread.

There Are those who want to put the existence of a real hell onto a poor translation of a Greek word into English.

The existence Of hell // Hades / Gehenna / Sheol // Is definitely real -- Will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone at the time when Eternity will last forever. And that is per Revelation 20 or so.

God's Word Is the inspired word of God Not from Greek Philosophy.

It would be wise to heed that which God has chosen to share with us. It's indeed real and will last forever.

And born-again believers Should be 'shouting God's plan of redemption from the rooftops."
Hades and Gehenna are real. A place of conscious eternal torment that the English word hell is used to connote does not exist. It's based on a wrong interpretation of aion. Its been shown over and over that aion cannot mean eternal.
 
Hades and Gehenna are real. A place of conscious eternal torment that the English word hell is used to connote does not exist. It's based on a wrong interpretation of aion. Its been shown over and over that aion cannot mean eternal.

do you attend church?? just curios, if so what denomination?

just wondering if you know of any biblical scholars that that teach this? if so could you share there names?


thanks for the consideration
 
Hades and Gehenna are real. A place of conscious eternal torment that the English word hell is used to connote does not exist. It's based on a wrong interpretation of aion. Its been shown over and over that aion cannot mean eternal.

Well -- lots of people use the word "hell" - referring to the 'holding place' for non-believers Until the future judgement day. 'hell' being the Hades / Gehenna -- the temporary hold place. But NOT meaning purgatory. In the future time of the final judgement Hades and Gehenna / Death // the people in those locations Will be thrown / put into their Final destination -- the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. It's been said that the Lake of fire and brimstone is / will be / as eternal as being in 'heaven' / the New Jerusalem. And That is going to be brought down from heaven by God Himself.

And, of Course, No one wants Anyone to end up in a lake of fire and brimstone - Forever. Only for a little while until they don't exist any more. But the 'soul' Does live on Forever.

It makes sense to do whatever a person Can do to stay Out of that potential eternal future. It would be to accept God's Way to stay out of there. And it's NOT depending on what a person can do themselves. It's only possible by the blood of Christ. And THAT is Very sufficient.
 
Well -- lots of people use the word "hell" - referring to the 'holding place' for non-believers Until the future judgement day. 'hell' being the Hades / Gehenna -- the temporary hold place. But NOT meaning purgatory. In the future time of the final judgement Hades and Gehenna / Death // the people in those locations Will be thrown / put into their Final destination -- the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. It's been said that the Lake of fire and brimstone is / will be / as eternal as being in 'heaven' / the New Jerusalem. And That is going to be brought down from heaven by God Himself.

And, of Course, No one wants Anyone to end up in a lake of fire and brimstone - Forever. Only for a little while until they don't exist any more. But the 'soul' Does live on Forever.

It makes sense to do whatever a person Can do to stay Out of that potential eternal future. It would be to accept God's Way to stay out of there. And it's NOT depending on what a person can do themselves. It's only possible by the blood of Christ. And THAT is Very sufficient.
Yes I agree, this is the kind of scripture we were taught to believe.
 
do you attend church?? just curios, if so what denomination?

just wondering if you know of any biblical scholars that that teach this? if so could you share there names?


thanks for the consideration
Hi Dave, I do attend church. We're not a denomination. The closest we would be is the Christian Churches.

I wouldn't worry so much about scholars as much as the arguments made. If an argument is sound it doesn't matter who makes it. Having said that there are some sources you can could consider. A search of "Conditional Immortality" is one. Another is "Rethinking Hell" . Also here is a link to a 20 part series that considers these things if you really want to go deep.

 
Well -- lots of people use the word "hell" - referring to the 'holding place' for non-believers Until the future judgement day. 'hell' being the Hades / Gehenna -- the temporary hold place. But NOT meaning purgatory. In the future time of the final judgement Hades and Gehenna / Death // the people in those locations Will be thrown / put into their Final destination -- the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. It's been said that the Lake of fire and brimstone is / will be / as eternal as being in 'heaven' / the New Jerusalem. And That is going to be brought down from heaven by God Himself.

And, of Course, No one wants Anyone to end up in a lake of fire and brimstone - Forever. Only for a little while until they don't exist any more. But the 'soul' Does live on Forever.

It makes sense to do whatever a person Can do to stay Out of that potential eternal future. It would be to accept God's Way to stay out of there. And it's NOT depending on what a person can do themselves. It's only possible by the blood of Christ. And THAT is Very sufficient.
Hi Sue,

You've conflated Hades and Gehenna, they are two different places. Are there two holding places for these non believers that you speak of?

Also, Jesus indicated that the wicked would cast into Gehenna and John said the wicked would be cast into the Lake of Fire. Which one is it? How do we reconcile this difference? I only see two ways, either one of them is wrong or Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are the same place. I don't believe either of them were wrong so I have to conclude that Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are one and the same place. We see that death and Hades, the grave, are cast into the Lake of Fire. Since this has to be Gehenna, it can't be a place that burns forever. The prophet Jeremiah speaks of a day when this place Gehenna will again one day be made Holy to the Lord. Also, we see in Isaiah that what is burning in Gehenna is dead bodies, not souls or spirits.
 
Actually -- looking it up -- the word in Hebrew is 'sheol' in the Greek it's 'Hades' = the same place only different names in the two different languages.

So - as you can see - there's nothing To reconcile.

Well -- your conclusions, obviously. need to be adjusted. There is only one holding place for non-believers.

and , yes, you Are correct that all non-believers Will be ending up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

I've been doing some more 'digging' Gehenna is Also a city and there was a valley where dead bodies were burned / buried -- it was a putrid place.

I looked up your reference to Jeremiah and found 31:40 . "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the Lord. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever" The context goes back a few verses.

Have been learning that 'Gehenna" other spellings for it -- was a place of horrific 'worship' children would be sacrificed and bodies burned -- it's become synonymous with horror / burning or dead bodies.

The City of Gehenna has been prophesied as coming Back some day and be holy.

but That description was being given to the temporary holding place for non-believers until they are put into the everlasting lake of fire and brimstone.

The City of Gehenna -- bodies did burn and eventually it Did end. And Gehenna Will eventually End, but only because it will be put into the Eternal lake of fire and brimstone. And THAT will Never end.

Researching Does help.
 
Actually -- looking it up -- the word in Hebrew is 'sheol' in the Greek it's 'Hades' = the same place only different names in the two different languages.

So - as you can see - there's nothing To reconcile.

Well -- your conclusions, obviously. need to be adjusted. There is only one holding place for non-believers.

and , yes, you Are correct that all non-believers Will be ending up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

I've been doing some more 'digging' Gehenna is Also a city and there was a valley where dead bodies were burned / buried -- it was a putrid place.

I looked up your reference to Jeremiah and found 31:40 . "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the Lord. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever" The context goes back a few verses.

Have been learning that 'Gehenna" other spellings for it -- was a place of horrific 'worship' children would be sacrificed and bodies burned -- it's become synonymous with horror / burning or dead bodies.

The City of Gehenna has been prophesied as coming Back some day and be holy.

but That description was being given to the temporary holding place for non-believers until they are put into the everlasting lake of fire and brimstone.

The City of Gehenna -- bodies did burn and eventually it Did end. And Gehenna Will eventually End, but only because it will be put into the Eternal lake of fire and brimstone. And THAT will Never end.

Researching Does help.
Actually -- looking it up -- the word in Hebrew is 'sheol' in the Greek it's 'Hades' = the same place only different names in the two different languages.

So - as you can see - there's nothing To reconcile.

Well -- your conclusions, obviously. need to be adjusted. There is only one holding place for non-believers.

and , yes, you Are correct that all non-believers Will be ending up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

I've been doing some more 'digging' Gehenna is Also a city and there was a valley where dead bodies were burned / buried -- it was a putrid place.

I looked up your reference to Jeremiah and found 31:40 . "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the Lord. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever" The context goes back a few verses.

Have been learning that 'Gehenna" other spellings for it -- was a place of horrific 'worship' children would be sacrificed and bodies burned -- it's become synonymous with horror / burning or dead bodies.

The City of Gehenna has been prophesied as coming Back some day and be holy.

but That description was being given to the temporary holding place for non-believers until they are put into the everlasting lake of fire and brimstone.

The City of Gehenna -- bodies did burn and eventually it Did end. And Gehenna Will eventually End, but only because it will be put into the Eternal lake of fire and brimstone. And THAT will Never end.

Researching Does help.

I didn't say you were conflating sheol and Hades. It was Hades and Gehenna. They are two different places. You have the non believer going to two different places, yet above you said they go to one. Gehenna is Greek for the Valley of the son Hinnom. It is a physical location outside of Jerusalem. It's also called Tophet. It's where children were offered to pagan gods and were burned. This valley is where Jesus indicated that the wicked would suffer in fire. He quotes Isaiah 66 so we know that this is the place and it is dead bodies that are burning in this valley. I'm not sure where you saw that this was a temporary holding place for non believers. That's not what God said through Isaiah.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

They are carcases, not people in temporary holding.

Again, Jesus indicates that the wicked will be cast into Gehenna and John says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. It seems that either one of them is wrong, there are two different places for the wicked, or the Lake of Fire and Gehenna are the same place. Either way, there is nothing said in the Scriptures of Gehenna being thrown into the Lake of Fire. Death and Hades, the grave, are thrown into the fire.
 
Okay -- More researching --- the Greek word "gehenna" is used in the New Testament for 'hell' and comes from the Hebrew word ' hinnom'.

Actually , it's more a general term used. A person is either going to heaven or to hell when they die. The more specific terminology would be .......

so -- still not two different places.

Jesus Christ was comparing something the people were already Familiar With to a New concept.

There is the temporary holding place with either a Greek or Hebrew word for it AND the eternal destination. And Gehenna is simply another word For hell.

the lake of fire and brimstone is Not Gehenna.

From more researching -- death comes back to life -- so death as we know it doesn't really exist anymore -- those people will be put into the lake of fire and brimstone , too.
 
Hi Dave, I do attend church. We're not a denomination. The closest we would be is the Christian Churches.

I wouldn't worry so much about scholars as much as the arguments made. If an argument is sound it doesn't matter who makes it. Having said that there are some sources you can could consider. A search of "Conditional Immortality" is one. Another is "Rethinking Hell" . Also here is a link to a 20 part series that considers these things if you really want to go deep.



An 'argument' is made By people. Discussions don't happen in a vacuum.
 
You commented that the 'argument' Is and that it doesn't matter who the scolars are that are saying 'it'. And Then you went on.

But I'm saying that it Does matter who is presenting an 'argument' on a particular subject.

Meaning that information for argumentation doesn't materialize out of 'nothing' -- there are people who are presenting information and it Does help to know where it's coming From. The Source Of.
 
You commented that the 'argument' Is and that it doesn't matter who the scolars are that are saying 'it'. And Then you went on.

But I'm saying that it Does matter who is presenting an 'argument' on a particular subject.

Meaning that information for argumentation doesn't materialize out of 'nothing' -- there are people who are presenting information and it Does help to know where it's coming From. The Source Of.
Please explain why its important who makes the argument. If I argue that 1+1=2 and a mathematician argues the same thing, is he anymore right because he's a mathematician? Or, if he argues that 1+1=3, does it make him correct because he's a mathematician?

An arguement should evaluated based on its merits, not whose making it. If a layman Christian makes an argument and it differs from a scholar, the scholar isn't automatically right just because he is a scholar and the laymen isn't.
 
You're using a bit of a weak comparison -- a person with fingers and who can see can put 1 and 1 together and come up with 2. That does Not require a mathematician -- anyone Could try to say that 1+1 = 3 and it's obvious that it doesn't. However, in higher mathematics -- a certain amount of trust is required to be put in the instructor. He's done his 'homework' and knows what he's teaching. And also, math facts build on each other. Multiplicaton / division build on each other. A person getting much higher needs a qualified instructor to teach them -- a mathematician.

There are lay Christians who I'd give more credence to than some scholors. A 'bottom line' -- communication -- that which makes sense -- God gave all of us brains and He expects us to use them. And the Holy Spirit guides us, also. If something doesn't sound right -- then there's probably a Reason. And sometimes, people Will try to put their own 'twist' on a subject. Some people will go to the Greek / Hebrew / Armaic and try to manipulate the meaning of the word and do the same with the English. They will be 'bound and determined' that Their conclusion is the Right one. But, to someone Else -- it just doesn't sound 'right'. And when 'their' conclusions go against Other Scriptures that are clearer, well, then there's a problem.

If My inner instincts tell me One thing and someone Elses' inner instincts tells them something Different. Well -- sometimes people simply have to agree to disagree. If it pertains to salvation, well, God's Word Is specific.

Now -- This subject has been about the various names of 'hell' and where various areas are. And whether or not it's eternal. The title is -- Does anyone believe in hell. Well -- God's Word teaches it and His Word is Correct. So, yes, there Is hell.

And there are those who thrive on digging deeper and deeper -- but the bottom line is that it Does exist -- accept God's Word -- He's given 'us' His Word for a Reason.

Now -- maybe some of these comments don't apply to you, personally. There Is another poster who is 'bound and determined' in another area. But the basic concept is still there.
 
You're using a bit of a weak comparison -- a person with fingers and who can see can put 1 and 1 together and come up with 2. That does Not require a mathematician -- anyone Could try to say that 1+1 = 3 and it's obvious that it doesn't. However, in higher mathematics -- a certain amount of trust is required to be put in the instructor. He's done his 'homework' and knows what he's teaching. And also, math facts build on each other. Multiplicaton / division build on each other. A person getting much higher needs a qualified instructor to teach them -- a mathematician.

There are lay Christians who I'd give more credence to than some scholors. A 'bottom line' -- communication -- that which makes sense -- God gave all of us brains and He expects us to use them. And the Holy Spirit guides us, also. If something doesn't sound right -- then there's probably a Reason. And sometimes, people Will try to put their own 'twist' on a subject. Some people will go to the Greek / Hebrew / Armaic and try to manipulate the meaning of the word and do the same with the English. They will be 'bound and determined' that Their conclusion is the Right one. But, to someone Else -- it just doesn't sound 'right'. And when 'their' conclusions go against Other Scriptures that are clearer, well, then there's a problem.

If My inner instincts tell me One thing and someone Elses' inner instincts tells them something Different. Well -- sometimes people simply have to agree to disagree. If it pertains to salvation, well, God's Word Is specific.

Now -- This subject has been about the various names of 'hell' and where various areas are. And whether or not it's eternal. The title is -- Does anyone believe in hell. Well -- God's Word teaches it and His Word is Correct. So, yes, there Is hell.

And there are those who thrive on digging deeper and deeper -- but the bottom line is that it Does exist -- accept God's Word -- He's given 'us' His Word for a Reason.

Now -- maybe some of these comments don't apply to you, personally. There Is another poster who is 'bound and determined' in another area. But the basic concept is still there.
You made my case when you said, "There are lay Christians who I'd give more credence to than some scholors". That's my whole point. Just because someone is a scholar doesn't necessitate that what he says is correct. There are Scholars who teach that a person can lose their salvation and those that teach that they can't. These are two opposing positions they cannot both be true. Thus, some scholars no matter how much they have studied are wrong.

About the word hell, I would argue that the Bible doesn't teach it. The word hell is an English word that is not in the original texts. The Bible uses words like Hades, Gehenna, tartarus, and the Lake of Fire. The English word hell is imposed onto these words. Tartarus is described in the Bible as a place where wicked angels are held, bound in chains. There's nothing said about eternal suffering. Hades, is described as the grave. People are said to go alive into Hades, buried alive. Some are said to have taken their weapons. Fire and Hades are connected figuratively as God's anger. That leaves Gehenna, where Jesus indicates the wicked will go. This is a literal location on earth, the Valley of the Son of Hinnom. It's associated with the sacrifice of children to pagan gods. Jesus referred to it as Gehenna fire. The last place is the Lake of Fire. This Lake of Fire is only mentioned in Revelation. That means other than John the apostles hadn't heard of the Lake of Fire. All of the Christians before Revelation hadn't heard of the Lake of Fire. We find this Lake of Fire in a book that is full of symbolism. John said that it was into this Lake of Fire that the wicked would be cast. How do we reconcile this with what Jesus said? Since the Lake of Fire is in a book full of symbolism, what if this Lake is a symbol? Imagine if you will. Jesus quoted Isaiah 66 and called this place Gehenna Fire.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-1:1 KJV)

We see from Isaiah that this place called Gehenna, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, has dead bodies burning in it. However, Jeremiah also speaks of this place.

38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. (Jer. 31:38-40 KJV)

We see here from Jeremiah that the valley is full of dead bodies. If we combine what we find from these two prophets we see that the whole valley is full of burning dead bodies or carcasses. If we could see this what would it look like? With the entire valley burning would it not look just like a lake of fire? It seems to me that the picture is clear that Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are one and the same. Additionally, as already mentioned, in order to reconcile Jesus' and John's descriptions of where the wicked go we have to conclude that Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are one and the same.

We also see from this prophecy that this place, Gehenna does not burn forever. Jeremiah says that one day it will be made holy to the Lord. Some will argue that Isaiah said the fire shall not be quenched therefore it burns forever. However, that's not so. The word quench means to extinguish or put out. It doesn't mean the fire won't go out. It means it is not put it out. It will burn until it consumes it's fuel.
 
do you attend church?? just curios, if so what denomination?

just wondering if you know of any biblical scholars that that teach this? if so could you share there names?


thanks for the consideration
Hi Dave,

You asked if I knew any scholars that taught what I believe. Are you familiar with William Tyndale? He is the first one to translate the Bible into English from the original languages. Wycliffe's translation was earlier but was translated from the Latin Vulgate. Here are two quotes from William Tyndale.

 
@Butch5 -- if you truly want to believe that hell doesn't exist and that Revelation is only symbolism and isn't meant to be taken seriously, then I really feel sorry for you. God, Himself, has given us all the books of the Bible. We need to take it all seeriously.

Maybe a poor example -- but on rest room doors -- lots use a drawing of a man or woman -- a symbol and That symbol is telling a person that that particular room is for Men or for Women. Or a sign with a minus sign over it -- that means a person should Not be doing or going 'where ever".

All are symbols to be taken Seriously.
 
@Butch5 -- if you truly want to believe that hell doesn't exist and that Revelation is only symbolism and isn't meant to be taken seriously, then I really feel sorry for you. God, Himself, has given us all the books of the Bible. We need to take it all seeriously.

Maybe a poor example -- but on rest room doors -- lots use a drawing of a man or woman -- a symbol and That symbol is telling a person that that particular room is for Men or for Women. Or a sign with a minus sign over it -- that means a person should Not be doing or going 'where ever".

All are symbols to be taken Seriously.
No one said it isn't to be taken seriously. It is. However, as has been pointed out, numerous times, it doesn't last forever. If only the Father is immortal and the Lake of Fire isn't eternal, how will people thrown in there burn forever?
 
'we' Also have a soul that is Immortal. it Will continue on Forever.

someone can point out over and over again that 1+1= 3 , but we all know that it doesn't.

It has Also been comment numerous times that 'we' don't like the idea of suffering Forever. Look at Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. .......vs 13 the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works." The term "Death" is only mentioned twice , but it sure sounds like those people who were Dead were brought back to life to be judged. And apparently that verse is the basis of people in hell / Lake of fire and brimstone / will suffer according to how sinful they were. That everyone who does Not accept Jesus Christ as their savior will Be in that lake of fire and brimstone but not suffering the same as their neighbor.

the soul / spirit of a person Does last forever.

God the Father is the Only One who's existed forever. No beginning. Genesis 1;1 " In the beginning God created .... God has always been. He created everything. He has been in charge , He is in charge Now and He will continue To be in charge.

We had a beginning -- but We Will last forever. this physical body Will die. But the rest of 'us' does continue on forever. Either in lake of fire and brimstone Or in the New Jerusalem.

so -- why not simply make sure that 'we' will be in heaven. It IS God's Way for heaven or rejecting His way and ending up where No one in their right mind would want to go.
 
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