Does Jesus love satan?

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Hey @Bill , @Brad Huber , @Sue D. , @B-A-C , @Admon Mikha'el , @KingJ , @Gracy Hansda , @DieAmartyr , @nuclPUmky , @Josephine2006 , @Trevor , @KittyLinda , @Curtis

I just thought of something.
So back to the original question. Does Jesus Love Satan?.

It occurred to me why initially it can be difficult to answer this question.

First if you say no to the OQ, the thought is, how can God not love Satan and be love.
And if you say yes, the thought is, then why is Satan going to hell.

The issue is how we look at Love.

When we look at love, from a carnal perspective, we think of love as something that you do.
And as a result we often associate love with certain actions. We say, this person is giving the
homeless man some food, he is showing love. Or this guy give his wife flowers, he loves her.

And we do the opposite, This parent just kicked their son out of the house, he hates him.
Or this employer just fired this employee, they don't care for them.

As people in the flesh or with carnal minds, we focus on self. Therefore our definition and
perception of love often has to do with what is being done to us or for us. What action is happening.

Now, what if we changed our focus or our definition of love from focusing on what you do to who
you are? What if our definition of love was grounded more in a state of being, being love, rather
than "doing or showing". Don't get me wrong, actions flow from who are we, however two people can do
the exact same action for very different reasons. Two people can give money to a friend and one do
it out of love and the other so that the friend is indebted to them. The one who is giving the money
in love is not doing the action to show love, they just happen to have a nature of love and when certain
circumstances of life interect with them, their actions naturally flow from who they are.

If we focus on love as something that you are, rather than what you do, than it ends up being more about
being true to who you are rather than doing a specific action. Imagine a loving father who has two children.
He finds out that one child has been sexually abusing a younger sibling. The father loves both children, but ends up
kicking out the older offending child from the home for the safety of the younger child who is the victim of the abuse.
Would anyone say that the father does not love both of his children? I don't think so. But if the question were
to come up, the only reason one would ask if the father loved the offending child would be because they would
be looking at the father's actions and saying "He is doing this...." And this thing that he is doing causes harm
to another person (the son being kicked out-- Satan in hell) and if you "Love" then your actions are not suppose
to cause harm.

That is the lie we believe because of the way the world defines love.
That is why guys tell girls, if you love me you will have sex with me.
They don't see that the girl denying the guy his request is not because she doesn't love
him. Once again, the guy in that situation is looking at love as something you do.
He is thinking if you love me these actions will follow. Instead of seeing love as more
of a state of being. The girl can have a nature of love and still say no to have sex with
her unmarried boyfriend as she stays true to her values, true to her relationship with God,
and continue to be compassionate and caring for her boyfriend. Her saying "no I will not have sex
with you", does not negate her love for her boyfriend. It only does if you are trying to define love by
solely examining the actions instead of the nature.(doing vs being)

Nature versus presentation.
Can you tell as real diamond from the fake? I can't either. If there were two diamonds in front of us,
a real one and a fake, and I give you the fake and it shined and sparked just like the real one, if the expression(sparkle, light, shine)
was just so convincing, I could probably be able to fool you.

However if you had a scientist get a microscope and go down to the atomic level. He or she could tell you if there is a certain
molecular bond of hydro-carbon chains and authenticating that such was a fake and not the real diamond.
Such is how I see love and this discussion. Love can be faked in many ways and we fool ourselves into thinking
we love when at the core, at our nature, we don't as much as we think. Just as you shouldn't determine if something is a real
diamond only by how much it shines, one shouldn't based if someone loves (more accurately, if someone "is love") just by their actions. You need to go
to the heart. "......for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. " 1st Samuel 16:6-7

So when we ask does God love Satan, what I really hear is "If God does love Satan why
is God not showing certain actions to Satan that we expect should happen when you love someone?"
We ask, why don't I see what my carnal eyes expects to see when someone loves another.
We say, why do I see actions from God towards Satan which I don't associate with love, because I'm trying to determine love by the actions being done.


So does God love Satan? My answer, God is Love.
Anyone who chooses to receive this love can receive it and be loved by God,
everyone who chooses to reject this love is free to do so.
However their (Satan's) actions does not change who God is, God continues being love and true to who God is regardless of the actions of others.

 

[Sue D.]

Interesting thought.

Satan -- previously Lucifer -- wasn't satisfied with how God created him. Lucifer wanted it All . He was created as the most beautiful angel of all. He was 2nd in 'command' ,but he wanted it all. There Can't be two bosses.

In the New Testament -- Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil -- Matthew 4 vs 8 and 9 "And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." The response of Jesus was "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve."

Lucifer wanted it all -- If he had been satisfied with how God had created him -- how different the results would have been. But it was no surprise to God. He knew what would happen and would provide The Savior that would make all things right again.

God loves the person but not our actions.

God is 'love' and He is also the righteous judge. "tough' love is still love.

When we, as parents, gives our children rules and guidelines -- we expect them to follow those guidelines -- if we went ahead and let our kids to 'whatever' Anyway -- we would be harming our children. We could say that we 'love' our kids , but that 'kids will be kids' so just let them be 'for now'. And Later we can straighten them out. In the meantime they are becoming brats and no one wants to be around them. So -- are we Really showing Love to our kids that way? No -- we Are showing that we're too lazy to be Parents. We're Not enforcing the guidelines, rules we've set down for them. And there Will Be negative consequences.

Do we really want God to be like some of our earthly parents? No -- God shows His love by giving us guidelines and telling us what the consequences will be for Not obeying. He gives us boundaries and consequences to Show his love. We feel more secure in God's love as we follow His guidelines. We are in good relationship with Him and that gives us inner peace. That Almost sounds like a good works-based salvation, but it isn't. Any more than we have to obey our parents in order to continue being their kids. Once we become a child of God -- we will Always be one. Sometimes we'll mess up and not be on good terms with Him, But we won't loose that relationship with Him.

Sometimes 'tough-love' means that if our teenagers get into drugs / alcohol , even when they've been warned against it -- if they aren't willing to get help -- then they have to get out of the safe environment that we've provided and let 'life' give them a wakeup call. Tough-love would be calling the police to take them into custody. For their own good. And sometimes jail / prison is the wake-up call that's needed. Or juvenille hall is their wake-up call.

God has done all He can to secure us a place in heaven. The choice is ours. And God is the Only One who knows who will or who will Not accept His way.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Love is: who you are (nature) not just what you do (actions).

This is why as valentines day rolls around, the question people are asking
is, "What are you going to get or do for the person you love"?

Are you going to get them diamonds? flowers? money?

How about this? What are you going to be for the one you love?

Are you going to be a friend?
Are you going to be empathetic to them?
Are you going to be honest with them?
Are you going to be a shoulder to cry on?

Real love is about being, not just doing.
It is a matter of who are you? NOT what are you doing?

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, Valentine's Day is only 3 days away. A very romantic day.

And, you're right. Be the friend that you want to have -- heard that someplace. Maybe it's part of the Golden Rule -- do unto others as you'd have them do to / for you.

Well -- our actions portray who we are inside. And a person's eyes are 'a window to the soul'.

Good thoughts.

 

[Bill]

Hey @Bill , @Brad Huber , @Sue D. , @B-A-C , @Admon Mikha'el , @KingJ , @Gracy Hansda , @DieAmartyr , @nuclPUmky , @Josephine2006 , @Trevor , @KittyLinda , @Curtis

I just thought of something.
So back to the original question. Does Jesus Love Satan?.

It occurred to me why initially it can be difficult to answer this question.

First if you say no to the OQ, the thought is, how can God not love Satan and be love.
And if you say yes, the thought is, then why is Satan going to hell.

The issue is how we look at Love.

When we look at love, from a carnal perspective, we think of love as something that you do.
And as a result we often associate love with certain actions. We say, this person is giving the
homeless man some food, he is showing love. Or this guy give his wife flowers, he loves her.

And we do the opposite, This parent just kicked their son out of the house, he hates him.
Or this employer just fired this employee, they don't care for them.

As people in the flesh or with carnal minds, we focus on self. Therefore our definition and
perception of love often has to do with what is being done to us or for us. What action is happening.

Now, what if we changed our focus or our definition of love from focusing on what you do to who
you are? What if our definition of love was grounded more in a state of being, being love, rather
than "doing or showing". Don't get me wrong, actions flow from who are we, however two people can do
the exact same action for very different reasons. Two people can give money to a friend and one do
it out of love and the other so that the friend is indebted to them. The one who is giving the money
in love is not doing the action to show love, they just happen to have a nature of love and when certain
circumstances of life interect with them, their actions naturally flow from who they are.

If we focus on love as something that you are, rather than what you do, than it ends up being more about
being true to who you are rather than doing a specific action. Imagine a loving father who has two children.
He finds out that one child has been sexually abusing a younger sibling. The father loves both children, but ends up
kicking out the older offending child from the home for the safety of the younger child who is the victim of the abuse.
Would anyone say that the father does not love both of his children? I don't think so. But if the question were
to come up, the only reason one would ask if the father loved the offending child would be because they would
be looking at the father's actions and saying "He is doing this...." And this thing that he is doing causes harm
to another person (the son being kicked out-- Satan in hell) and if you "Love" then your actions are not suppose
to cause harm.

That is the lie we believe because of the way the world defines love.
That is why guys tell girls, if you love me you will have sex with me.
They don't see that the girl denying the guy his request is not because she doesn't love
him. Once again, the guy in that situation is looking at love as something you do.
He is thinking if you love me these actions will follow. Instead of seeing love as more
of a state of being. The girl can have a nature of love and still say no to have sex with
her unmarried boyfriend as she stays true to her values, true to her relationship with God,
and continue to be compassionate and caring for her boyfriend. Her saying "no I will not have sex
with you", does not negate her love for her boyfriend. It only does if you are trying to define love by
solely examining the actions instead of the nature.(doing vs being)

Nature versus presentation.
Can you tell as real diamond from the fake? I can't either. If there were two diamonds in front of us,
a real one and a fake, and I give you the fake and it shined and sparked just like the real one, if the expression(sparkle, light, shine)
was just so convincing, I could probably be able to fool you.

However if you had a scientist get a microscope and go down to the atomic level. He or she could tell you if there is a certain
molecular bond of hydro-carbon chains and authenticating that such was a fake and not the real diamond.
Such is how I see love and this discussion. Love can be faked in many ways and we fool ourselves into thinking
we love when at the core, at our nature, we don't as much as we think. Just as you shouldn't determine if something is a real
diamond only by how much it shines, one shouldn't based if someone loves (more accurately, if someone "is love") just by their actions. You need to go
to the heart. "......for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. " 1st Samuel 16:6-7

So when we ask does God love Satan, what I really hear is "If God does love Satan why
is God not showing certain actions to Satan that we expect should happen when you love someone?"
We ask, why don't I see what my carnal eyes expects to see when someone loves another.
We say, why do I see actions from God towards Satan which I don't associate with love, because I'm trying to determine love by the actions being done.


So does God love Satan? My answer, God is Love.
Anyone who chooses to receive this love can receive it and be loved by God,
everyone who chooses to reject this love is free to do so.
However their (Satan's) actions does not change who God is, God continues being love and true to who God is regardless of the actions of others.

What many also overlook. Hel was created by God . This means it was of Gods love.

So our understanding of Hell's creation is changed by the perspective of what we know of Hell .

 

[Bill]

Love is: who you are (nature) not just what you do (actions).

This is why as valentines day rolls around, the question people are asking
is, "What are you going to get or do for the person you love"?

Are you going to get them diamonds? flowers? money?

How about this? What are you going to be for the one you love?

Are you going to be a friend?
Are you going to be empathetic to them?
Are you going to be honest with them?
Are you going to be a shoulder to cry on?

Real love is about being, not just doing.
It is a matter of who are you? NOT what are you doing?

Love is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit . Because the Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and the Son .

It is the only way i know how to explain what the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

What many also overlook. Hel was created by God . This means it was of Gods love.

So our understanding of Hell's creation is changed by the perspective of what we know of Hell .

Very insightful, do say more.

 

[Bill]

Very insightful, do say more.

The Scripture states that Hell is filled with the passion of the devil. Or is consumed by the devils passion ( depending on translation ) . So it has been corrupted by the devil. This corruption is the result of sin. And ( in my opinion ) the most grevious thing would be the ' separation ' from God . ( although there is some comfort that God can never fully separate from them ( as Jesus on the cross ) because if God fully separated from anyone, they would cease to exist .

 

[Sue D.]

@Bill -- Hell is part of Abraham's bosom that is the 'holding' place for those who reject Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. God's Word tells us that there are two eternal destinations for people -- either the lake of fire and brimstone OR heaven.
I don't see in Scripture any mention of satan's passion about anything. Except that he knows what his future destination Is -- in that lake that nobody wants to end up in. He wants as many people to end up there as possible. So -- I suppose that could be seen as being passionate on his part.

The World has been corrupted by satan and he will suffer for eternity because of that.

No one will cease to exist even when fully separated from God. There will be total darkness without God. I was in a situation years ago where there was total darkness -- couldn't see my hand in front of my face. Then the sun finally came up and I could see again. The bathroom was the 1st place I headed. Outside there are stars and the moon for light. But in that bedroom -- at night -- with that door closed -- it was totally dark.

And then a group of us when to the Inner space caverns in Iowa. There was a gift shop -- there were all sorts of beautiful icicles / formations/ it was beautiful. It was Way underground. We were warned that for 60 seconds they would be turning the lights out. There were guard rails all over the place. We were told to hold onto a guard railing or someone's hand or both. Just to give us an idea of what dark was really like. That was the Longest 60 seconds any of us had lived through.
When the lights were back on -- we could continue to enjoy the beauty of the ice world.

To continue with my first comment -- in the end -- those in hell -- from the past and present and future before we all stand before God to answer -- and those in Death and Hell will be put into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity. That is found in Revelation 20 or so.

 

[B-A-C]

@Bill -- Hell is part of Abraham's bosom that is the 'holding' place for those who reject Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

More correctly, Abraham's Bosom is the side of Sheol for saints, Hades is the side of Sheol for unbelievers. There is a chasm between the two sides.
Abraham's Bosom isn't all of Sheol, only one side.

 

[Bill]

@Bill -- Hell is part of Abraham's bosom that is the 'holding' place for those who reject Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. God's Word tells us that there are two eternal destinations for people -- either the lake of fire and brimstone OR heaven.
I don't see in Scripture any mention of satan's passion about anything. Except that he knows what his future destination Is -- in that lake that nobody wants to end up in. He wants as many people to end up there as possible. So -- I suppose that could be seen as being passionate on his part.

The World has been corrupted by satan and he will suffer for eternity because of that.

No one will cease to exist even when fully separated from God. There will be total darkness without God. I was in a situation years ago where there was total darkness -- couldn't see my hand in front of my face. Then the sun finally came up and I could see again. The bathroom was the 1st place I headed. Outside there are stars and the moon for light. But in that bedroom -- at night -- with that door closed -- it was totally dark.

And then a group of us when to the Inner space caverns in Iowa. There was a gift shop -- there were all sorts of beautiful icicles / formations/ it was beautiful. It was Way underground. We were warned that for 60 seconds they would be turning the lights out. There were guard rails all over the place. We were told to hold onto a guard railing or someone's hand or both. Just to give us an idea of what dark was really like. That was the Longest 60 seconds any of us had lived through.
When the lights were back on -- we could continue to enjoy the beauty of the ice world.

To continue with my first comment -- in the end -- those in hell -- from the past and present and future before we all stand before God to answer -- and those in Death and Hell will be put into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity. That is found in Revelation 20 or so.

Well if hell is part of Abraham's bosom it doesn't say that specifically in the scripture .

And quite honestly I cannot see the correlation of hell and Abraham's bosom because it has two quite distinct different meanings.

The term Abraham's bosom would be similar to the bosom of your father and so doing it would be a place of love from the heart. A place of nurturing it would not be a place of punishment

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 16:23; And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his arms.

The rich man went to Hades, Lazarus with to Abraham's bosom. It says the rich man saw them "far away". Obviously they weren't the same place.

Luke 16:26; And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set, so that those who want to go over from here to you will not be able, nor will any people cross over from there to us.’

 

[Sue D.]

More correctly, Abraham's Bosom is the side of Sheol for saints, Hades is the side of Sheol for unbelievers. There is a chasm between the two sides.
Abraham's Bosom isn't all of Sheol, only one side.

People use different names for the same location. And, yes, we agree.

 

[Bill]

People use different names for the same location. And, yes, we agree.

I cannot agree with you on this Sue that Abraham's bosom and hell are the same thing there's just no way

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hi Brothers and sisters,

So here's my question; Jesus tells us to love our enemies (satan is the enemy). Does that mean we should love pagans, evildoers, the wicked and satan and his emmiseries?

Thanks guys.

Pagans, Evildoers, Democrats, the wicked - Absolutely! They're not the ENEMY, they're the "Mission field". Fellow human beings.
Satan and his folks - obviously NOT. They ARE the Enemy. They've knowingly chosen their "side", and are beyond redemption.

 

[Sue D.]

I cannot agree with you on this Sue that Abraham's bosom and hell are the same thing there's just no way

Abrahams' bosom contains two sections which are divided by a great abyss -- a chasm that can't be crossed.

On the one side is hell / Hades / sheol what ever a person choses to call it and on the other side is Paradise.

Which is what B.-A-C shared, also. He used the terms believers and non-believers. Believers were in the Paradise part until Jesus Christ went to the cross, was buried and went to the Paradise part and brought those believers back up with Him when He rose again on the 3rd day. The non-believers are still in the hell / Hades / sheol part until judgement day and then Death and Hell are put into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Which means that our physical death is not the end of 'life'. Our soul never dies. Born again believers will receive a glorified body like Jesus had after He was resurrected and was walking around before He ascended back up to heaven.

 

[Bill]

Abrahams' bosom contains two sections which are divided by a great abyss -- a chasm that can't be crossed.

On the one side is hell / Hades / sheol what ever a person choses to call it and on the other side is Paradise.

Which is what B.-A-C shared, also. He used the terms believers and non-believers. Believers were in the Paradise part until Jesus Christ went to the cross, was buried and went to the Paradise part and brought those believers back up with Him when He rose again on the 3rd day. The non-believers are still in the hell / Hades / sheol part until judgement day and then Death and Hell are put into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Which means that our physical death is not the end of 'life'. Our soul never dies. Born again believers will receive a glorified body like Jesus had after He was resurrected and was walking around before He ascended back up to heaven.

Did not you read what BAC wrote ?

Luke 16 : 23

Can't get much clearer than that

 

[Bill]

Abrahams' bosom contains two sections which are divided by a great abyss -- a chasm that can't be crossed.

On the one side is hell / Hades / sheol what ever a person choses to call it and on the other side is Paradise.

Which is what B.-A-C shared, also. He used the terms believers and non-believers. Believers were in the Paradise part until Jesus Christ went to the cross, was buried and went to the Paradise part and brought those believers back up with Him when He rose again on the 3rd day. The non-believers are still in the hell / Hades / sheol part until judgement day and then Death and Hell are put into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Which means that our physical death is not the end of 'life'. Our soul never dies. Born again believers will receive a glorified body like Jesus had after He was resurrected and was walking around before He ascended back up to heaven.

You're a little too technical in your thinking for my taste . Some of what you said is correct but there's some of it that is not and I really don't feel like sitting here arguing over technicalities

 

[Sue D.]

@ Bill -- what technicalities are you referring to?

 

[Bill]

Pagans, Evildoers, Democrats, the wicked - Absolutely! They're not the ENEMY, they're the "Mission field". Fellow human beings.
Satan and his folks - obviously NOT. They ARE the Enemy. They've knowingly chosen their "side", and are beyond redemption.

Do not list the Democrats in that list there are many good people that are Democrats as well.

Maybe if you're going to go that route you should include the Christians as the pagans and evildoers and the wicked. Because I find the Christians to be the most judgmental of all of mankind as it is.

The Christians will claim , "we follow the scripture", but you only read the parts that go along with your thinking, you don't really take time to really read the scripture. And in so doing you judge everyone else that doesn't.

You forget that the Christians are here to be stewards of everyone else "are you your brother's keeper "do you even know what that means.

Yes I stand Here condemning my own brothers and sisters because of this mentality of elitism.

Jesus did not die on the cross just for you he died on the cross for everyone. As Christians it is our job to strive to bring to God as many of the Fallen children that is possible to do in our lifetime.

These false teachings that Christians love to listen to every time they go to church pre-tribulation rapture. Once saved always saved. And a number of others will cause you to be condemned before God.

The pre-tribulation Rapture is all about escaping the world before all the poop hits the fan. I have news for you it's already too late. And have you ever seen Jesus run from anything, No in fact he walks right into it and challenges those of authority by witnessing. And it is witnessing that God calls you to as well. Yes you may lose your lives but it's better to lose your life for God sake then save yourself for your own.