Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture

[faithworks]

Yes, it is my choice.... I never said we are under wrath as His sons and daugthers we are not under His wrath... But, yes I will suffer I am not just going to fly away.. I do believe in the catching away just differ on the timing... We can live victorious in this life if we have the Holy Ghost in us...... But, the Lord does bring troubles upon sometimes to grow us up in Him and to trust Him more.. Not everything is my fault.. Read Job....

Shalom,
debbi

 

[MightyAngel1]

Everything you think is CARNAL!

Howdy Spirit1st!

I beg your pardon? I said the following in a previous post on this page...

MA--The Seed Covenant of Abraham is a very powerful Covenant of God that is most definitely Spiritually discerned. Approximately 95% of all Christians do not understand this most powerful Covenant. Only about 5% do.

Which one are you, Spirit1st? Are you a 95 percenter? Or, Are you a 5 percenter? I say, We shall soon find out.

You are showing me and everyone else who reads this thread that you are most definitely a 95 percenter. Thank you.

Spirit1st--Abrahams seed is the Israel people!

According Genesis 13:16, Yes. NOT According to Genesis 15:4-5.

Genesis 13:16 addresses Abraham's Bloodline Seed from Abraham in Genesis including Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and a portion of the Book of Acts in the New Testament. Then, Abraham's Bloodline Seed continues From Hebrews to the Book of Revelation.

Genesis 15:4-5 addresses Abraham's Spiritual Seed from Romans to Philemon.

Spirit1st--It was Abrahams FAITH that made HIM the father of faith!

I agree. And, Zacchaeus is a son of Abraham according to Jesus Christ in Luke 19:9. And, Zacchaeus, at the time before he met Jesus, was a member of the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth.

After meeting Jesus, according to Luke 19:9, Zacchaeus became a member of the Seed of Isaac multiplied as the stars of the heaven because he believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

Spirit1st--Had nothing to do with his body! It died and rotted away!

I agree.

Spirit1st--He never had eternal life til the LORD died on the cross for HIM!

I agree.

Spirit1st--The name of the person goes to the grave with the body!

Not according to God's Prophecy in the Seed Covenant of Abraham.

Spirit1st--The NEW Creature our new Spirit gets a new body!

According to Philippians 3:21, Yes, Our vile bodies will be changed when Christ returns to take Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven and Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven to Heaven. See Hebrews 12:23 and Revelation 4:1.

Spirit1st--Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Did you notice that the word Churches is plural? Churches here represents the ONE NEW MAN in Christ Jesus. That is the Seed of Abraham multiplied as the stars of the heaven and Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Abraham Spiritual Seed and Isaac's Spiritual Seed make up the ONE NEW MAN in the New Testament. See John 10:30. And, Abraham's Spiritual Seed and Isaac's Spiritual Seed are fellow citizens with each other according Ephesians 2:19.

Spirit1st--He DID NOT DIE to save these bodies!

That is exactly why the flesh wars against the Spirit. Wouldn't you agree?

Spirit1st--Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Another set of Scriptures that are grossly misinterpreted by Christians who hold to the Doctrine that the Christian Church is Spiritual Israel. I would take a gander Spirit1st that you are one of these Christians.

The Seed of Isaac multiplied as the stars of the heaven are Spiritual Israel with the Heart of Christ. Why? Spiritual Israel is called in Isaac. Genesis 21:12, Romans 9:7, and Hebrews 11:18.

Spirit1st, You are not called in Isaac. According to Galatians 3:7, You are called in Abraham. Unless of course, You are a True Jew? That is Bloodline True Jew?

The Seed of Abraham multiplied as the stars of the heaven are Gentiles with the Heart of Christ. Acts 15:14. See also Romans to Philemon.

God Bless You!

Dr. Mike

 

[spirit1st]

The covenant is BY FAITH!
God put HIS laws in us !That is our Spirit! The only two laws He puts in mankind is Faith and LOVE!
These are the eternal laws.


Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

abtaham and no other had eternal life !Until the LORD died on the Cross! HE alone is the way !

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;



Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
That scripture means! Our Faith must reveal some action to work!

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We must do some action for our faith to work for us!

This an example!
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We confess with our mouth and also believe in our heart [Spirit]


OT the New Spirit that has the same type mind as JESUS and His type nature! Our old dying sin filled bodies have Not CHANGED!


Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Each child of GOD is made in there spirit after the perfect pattern JESUS CHRIST!

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

I cannot open your eyes to the truth only the Spirit of truth can do that!
We can reveal it !But we cannot make others SEE IT!
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Our bodies All die because of Sin!
Our Spirit once born of GOD ,never dies , because of NO SIN!

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

We just one day move out of this body and go too new jerusalem , where HE has NEW PERFECT BODIES like HIS awaiting us!
And much more!

 

[mtsmith]

This is 1 of 3 videos by Dr. Renald Showers about the pre trib rapture. It's highly worth watching (be sure to watch all 3 vids):

youtube.com/user/mytreasure777#p/a/4C3E7D72EAB9AB76/0/5866DUnDrck

 

[mtsmith]

F.Y.I. This is another cool Christian channel: youtube.com/user/legendsnthemaking?feature=mhsn

 

[spirit1st]

Not being smart! I just only follow MY LORD JESUS CHRIST , trusting in the Spirit of Truth to lead me ,guide me ,teach me and reveal things to me!
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Bond is JESUS Christ And HIS CROSS!

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me!
We can Only live in the light we have!

God got upset with me ,many years ago! He asked me? Was I going to follow the pastor or HIM !

I said , YOU LORD! HE said not so nice DO IT THEN!

So since that day , I have tried very hard to follow ONLY HIM!

I can learn from others! But I always check with HIM first and search the scriptures Also!

 

[faithworks]

We must obey all the laws they were not did away with... The first two commandents are what all the rest hinge on.... Just cause I was forgiven once does not mean I can keep on sinning. shame on me.. He is coming back for a spotless bride not one living in sin....

Shalom,
debbi

 

[spirit1st]

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

GOD writes HIS laws in our HEART [Spirit!]

Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:


Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:


Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.


2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?


Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[The Robster]

We must obey all the laws they were not did away with... The first two commandents are what all the rest hinge on.... Just cause I was forgiven once does not mean I can keep on sinning. shame on me.. He is coming back for a spotless bride not one living in sin....

Shalom,
debbi

You are not over 2000 yars old. Everyone of your sins (past, present and future) were all yet future when Jesus shed His blood on the Cross nearly 2000 tears old. You're not doing yourself any good being sin conscious. :announcementfly:

 

[MightyAngel1]

Yes, it is my choice....

Howdy Faithworks!

Yes, Indeed! You have a choice. And, This choice is a Gift from God Himself.

Faithworks--I never said we are under wrath as His sons and daugthers we are not under His wrath...

That is very good, because we are not under any wrath at all because the Christian Church, i.e. Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven, are not in the Tribulation period. See Revelation 4:1, Acts 15:17, and Romans 11:25.

Faithworks--But, yes I will suffer I am not just going to fly away..

Please elaborate. How do you choose to suffer?

Faithworks--I do believe in the catching away just differ on the timing...

Well, kindly stated, All you have to do is believe what God says about the matter. That is all you have to do. But, Not Every Christian believes God on this matter.

Faithworks--We can live victorious in this life if we have the Holy Ghost in us......

Yes, We can. But, You will not live victorious when you choose to suffer. When you choose to suffer, You choose to live a life of defeat and the devil laughs at you.

Faithworks--But, the Lord does bring troubles upon sometimes to grow us up in Him and to trust Him more..

God allows things to happen. God does not bring evil upon any of His Children.

Faithworks--Not everything is my fault.. Read Job....

No, Not everything that happens to you that is bad is your fault. However, Every decision that you make that does not bring about good is your fault. And, You have to deal with those consequences.

God Bless You!

Dr. Mike

 

[MightyAngel1]

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

GOD writes HIS laws in our HEART [Spirit!]

Howdy Spirit1st!

Hebrews 7:12 was written to the Seed of Isaac multiplied as the stars of the Heaven. God is going to do this to the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth. See Hebrews 10:16.

Spirit1st--Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

All of these Scriptures address Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Spirit1st--1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter addresses Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Spirit1st--Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

These Scriptures address Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Spirit1st--Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

These Scriptures address Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Spirit1st--Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Jesus Christ is addressing the Jews that believed on him, John 8:31. That is Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven before the cross.

Spirit1st--Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

These Scriptures address Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Spirit1st--Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

These Scriptures address Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

Now, Keeping Galatians 2:16 in the fore front of your mind and looking at Revelation 14:12 as follows...

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have 3 questions...

1) What are the Commandments of God in Revelation 14:12?

2) What is the faith of Jesus?

3) And, Who is the Specific Audience talked about in Revelation 14:12 who keep the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus during the Tribulation period?

I will share with you what else I will do. I will even give you the answer to question #3 by showing you once again the Seed Covenant of Abraham spoken by God Himself in Genesis 15:4-5, Genesis 26:4, and Genesis 28:14.

1) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.
2) Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.
3) Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth.

Keeping in mind for question #3, There is only 1 Correct Answer. Now, You have the question and you have the answer.

God Bless You!

Dr. Mike

 

[faithworks]

I am not saying what you are putting in my words...

The Torah is living inside of us now, because of His shed Blood.. so many think once they say the sinners prayer they are okay.. This I do not believe.. I can not live anyway I want.. We are made in His image so we are to be like Him. We can only do this through His spirit living in us we can not do anything of ourselves.... What I am hearing is doing away with law that is no longer in effect,well I believe it is.. Yes, it is supposed to be written on our hearts..That means we live by it right...

When you say our sins are forgiven about our future are you saying that we do have to repent anymore? I beg to differ here........ Repentence is our daily walk as should be.. All I want is to be more like Him everyday and walk Holy.. "HE said, Be holy for I am Holy."
He would not tell us to do something we could not do, He does not lie.

Shalom,
debbi

 

[MightyAngel1]

Q

Not being smart! I just only follow MY LORD JESUS CHRIST , trusting in the Spirit of Truth to lead me ,guide me ,teach me and reveal things to me!

Howdy Spirit1st!

Well, I would say you have started out on the right foot.

Spirit1st--Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Please allow me a moment to show you something here. I want to show you just how powerful the Seed Covenant of Abraham is when applied to Scripture interpretation.

Looking at John 10:27, Let us back up to verse 22.

John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of dedication, and it was winter.
John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's Porch.
John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Do you see anything? Well, Jesus comes to Jerusalem during the Feast of Dedication during the winter season and enters into Solomon's porch.

The Jews came and surrounded Jesus. Who are these Jews? According to the Seed Covenant of Abraham, These Jews are the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth.

And, Jesus begins speaking to them.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Question: Who are the sheep of Jesus?

Here is the answer. According to the Seed Covenant of Abraham, The Sheep of Jesus are the Jews who believe in Him. That is, The Seed of Isaac multiplied as the stars of the heaven.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Then, Jesus continued speaking to them and then Jesus said this in John 10:30.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

This verse here, that is John 10:30, sets the stage for the New Man in the New Testament Church Age. Jesus and His Father are one in nature, one regarding Eternal, and One regarding being equal.

In other words, Co-Natured, Co-Equal, and Co-Eternal. The Father and the Son. In this regard, 2 Distinct persons of the Triune Godhead.

A Similar pattern holds true for The Seeds of Abraham and Isaac. Both Seeds of Abraham and Isaac in the New Testament are One in Faith, Have One Lord, and One Baptism.

Therefore, The One New Man in the New Testament consists of 2 groups, That is the Seeds of Abraham and Isaac, who are Father and Son, who have One Faith, One Lord, and One Baptism. Fascinating Isn't!!

Spirit1st--1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Bond is JESUS Christ And HIS CROSS!

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me!
We can Only live in the light we have!

Well, When you apply 2 Timothy 2:15 to your Bible studies, You will continue to get more light. In other words, More Wisdom and Understanding.

God Bless You!

Dr. Mike

 

[MightyAngel1]

I am not saying what you are putting in my words...

The Torah is living inside of us now, because of His shed Blood..

Howdy Faithworks!

For the Seed of Isaac multiplied as the stars of the heaven, I agree.

FaithWorks--so many think once they say the sinners prayer they are okay.. This I do not believe..

I agree with you in this point.

FaithWorks--I can not live anyway I want..

No, We cannot.

FaithWorks--We are made in His image so we are to be like Him.

Yes, We are.

FaithWorks--We can only do this through His spirit living in us we can not do anything of ourselves....

I agree. See Acts 17:28.

FaithWorks--What I am hearing is doing away with law that is no longer in effect,well I believe it is..

For Isaac's Seed Multiplied as the stars of the heaven and Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth, Yes.

FaithWorks--Yes, it is supposed to be written on our hearts..That means we live by it right...

God has commanded that you do so as a statue forever throughout all the generations of the Jewish People.

FaithWorks--When you say our sins are forgiven about our future are you saying that we do have to repent anymore? I beg to differ here........

I have never said that. I firmly believe 1 John 1:9.

FaithWorks--Repentence is our daily walk as should be..

Yep!!

FaithWorks--All I want is to be more like Him everyday and walk Holy.. "HE said, Be holy for I am Holy."

Yes, He did.

FaithWorks--He would not tell us to do something we could not do, He does not lie.

With the Gift of Faith, 1 Corinthians 12:9, You can do anything God Commands you to do. See Hebrews 11:6.

God Bless You!

Dr. Mike

 

[rodd]

Revelation speaks of the Lord coming to earth to Judge those that dwell upon it with his holy ones.
Also in Revelation the eagle that flys in the sky proclaiming judgement-wrath against all those the dwell upon the earth kinda indicates that those whose sins are forgiven cannot be there for this to happen, as they are not under wrath.

Also the saints, meaning Christians, get 42 mths into the days of Tribulation, find in Chpt 9 Rev I think, but after that, they are not in view, but are the multitudues in heaven, described a few chapters earlier, then Michael protects Israel and they go through the tribulation. They become the second small group that went through the tribulation that come to heaven later in the scene of the saints dressed in white.

There's obviously a secret return for the church and the great day post wrath.

Jesus spells it out pretty plainly in Matt 24, when he says, ' immediately after those days', after he describes the time of wrath. So those that belong to him are with him.

 

[spirit1st]

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.



Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[rodd]

One specific verse that proves the pre-trib rapture is found in Revelation 17:14.

..........'and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers'.

This verse flies in the face of amillenialism and post trib theories.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Dear Brother Chad, I read some interesting thoughts as to the posted thinking of pre-trib rapture, and with your permission I would like to address the following statements by Kent Crockett. Is this permissible?

Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture
by Kent Crockett
Evidence #5: A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1)

The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up at the rapture.

Evidence #6: "Come up here." (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to "Come up here," and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church.

I would like to ask why the catching up of John into heaven to Jesus' throne in Revelation 4:1 on the Lord's Day to receive the Revelation of Jesus Christ should be considered prophesy concerning saints caught up to meet Jesus in the air of 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

Just a thought on this is the fact that when John arrives through the open door he already sees the twenty-four elders and the four beasts in the midst of and round about Jesus' throne indicating to me that they were caught up to heaven before John was caught up.

Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture
by Kent Crockett
Evidence #7: The 24 elders have their crowns

After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture.

We also know that only two of the seven churches described as judged in Revelation Chapters Two and Three receive crowns which are Smyrna and Philadelphia, and by the wording in Revelation 2:10 and 3:11 they already have them. Where is the remainder of the Church? John sees them in Revelation 7:9 and 7:14 standing before God's throne that came out of great tribulation. Notice also that these have palms instead of crowns according to Revelation 7:9.

Thank you.

 

[greatlybeloved]

Dear "Romans 8.28",

Those were genuine questions you asked. The problem with the "theories" (and the proponents of them) today is that they give least respect to the Scriptures (although most of them ignorantly). There is a FUNDAMENTAL problem in reading the Scriptures today (especially with its "interpretation"). Until we treat the root cause, we can never come to the right conclusion. Here's why I think:

Interpretation:
We are never to "interpret" the Scriptures today. Interpretation is a divine (SUPERNATURAL) gift given to few men of God back in those days. Peter tells us that "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20). Interpretation means giving a meaning to something HIDDEN (or UNKNOWN). For example, when Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of that great statue, no one can tell FOR SURE that the golden head MEANS Babylon and the chest part means another kingdom inferior to Babylon, etc., No one could ever in their wildest dreams could have guessed what Daniel INTERPRETED. Because that interpretation is FROM GOD DIRECTLY.
Another example: God was talking through Hosea about the house of Israel (the context was purely Israel) says this: "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1). No one could have guessed that this verse is actually a prophecy about Lord Jesus until the Spirit of God revealed through Matthew, "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matthew 2:15). This is interpretation from God!

But we do lot of private interpretation, like "restrainer" means Holy Spirit, Iron kingdom means Roman empire, etc., During Acts period, there were miraculous gifts like PROPHECIES (this is not teaching, it is prophesying), tongues, INTERPRETATIONS, etc., Those were special gifts given to those who were BAPTIZED with the Holy Ghost. They were totally under Spirit's control. Those were different times altogether. Today we are only to get as much understanding FROM THE SCRIPTURE. We can make some "guesses" like 24 elders in Revelation means the Church (body of Christ), because they wore priestly clothes and have crowns and we read in Scriptures that we are "royal priesthood". But THAT GUESS should never be BASE for understanding the Scriptures. Like people determine that the Church is in heaven already before the Lord opens the seals, so we don't go through tribulation. But did we ever ponder the possibility that the 24 elders may not even be Church!? If they are not church, the whole story we cooked up based on that assumption crumbles! So make calculated guesses, no problem. But NEVER make those guesses/assumptions BASE of understanding the Scripture.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Dear "Romans 8.28",

NEVER make those guesses/assumptions BASE of understanding the Scripture.

Hopefully we don't make assumptions based upon a false basis of scripture. 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. If they're not written for us, why read them?

For instance in Revelation 5:9 we are told who the twenty-four elders and the four beasts are; why assume anything? On top of the things I have said, the rapture of the first portion of the Church should occur thirty days prior to John being caught to the future to see them all seated with Jesus in heaven. How do we come to that conclusion? Scripture such as Daniel 12:11; thirty days prior to the seven years of tribulation, not assumption.

That's much like Revelation 3:10. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Is this not a promise for those who patiently keep God's word? What other would you determine this is other than tribulation, and deliverance from it?

Thanks.