Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

[Dave M]

If you do not want to give God back any oh his money that on you, the Church is Gods church our money is Gods money if you want to keep it all do what you will. I said offering

 

[Lanolin]

I think just dont rob Peter to pay Paul.

Paul didnt need the money anyhow. With food and clothing we are to be content. Rememeber how Paul ws stuck in prison, well he didnt need money he was probbly starving and needed food.

 

[Simon]

If you do not want to give God back any oh his money that on you, the Church is Gods church our money is Gods money if you want to keep it all do what you will. I said offering

Dave,
I see you edited your post claiming that the widow's offering was a tithe; and changed it to tithe/offering.
You should have just edited it to offering...

As for giving God back His money. All I have belongs to God, already. So how can I give it back?

1. We can burn cash before the Lord, bringing back an OT practice (like many churches have brought back a distorted tithe).
2. We can tithe by giving 10% of the increase of our flocks and crops to the poor, 2 out of 7 years.
3. We can spend it on a celebration for our own family 4 out of 7 years, like the OT Festival tithe.
   
4. We can give our money to a bank to pay a mortgage on a church building that's empty more than 6 days a week.
5. We can pay for church staff salaries so that we can listen to a 'professional' sermon for 30 minutes a week. .
6. We can spend it on buying a shoebox of gifts for children we've never met in a foreign country, and the leader of this charity can earn $600,000 a year.
7. We can spend it on my own children that God has entrusted to me.
8. We can help out someone I know, or a relative.
9. We can invest it into a business which will employ people and provide for families...

I know that if we give to the poor we lend to God, and it's like God becomes indebted to us.

Which of the above do you prefer?
Which is most Biblical in this NT era?

Simon

 

[B-A-C]

Is it really only in the OT?

Heb 7:2; to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.
Heb 7:4; Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils.
Heb 7:5; And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6; But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.

If Melchizedek is a type of Christ (our high priest) and Abraham is our example... shouldn't we do like him and give o Christ? (a tenth)

 

[Simon]

Is it really only in the OT?

Heb 7:2; to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.
Heb 7:4; Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils.
Heb 7:5; And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6; But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.

If Melchizedek is a type of Christ (our high priest) and Abraham is our example... shouldn't we do like him and give o Christ? (a tenth)

The whole theme of the book of Hebrews is to get believers to give up on the law, not go back to it.
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness

However, if you insist on pulling a few verses out of context and making Abraham your example, then let's look at Abraham's tithe:
He gave 10% of the spoils of one battle to Melchizedek.
He did not give 10% of his income.
He did not give 10% of his wealth or assets.
He only ever did this one time.
He gave the other 90% of the spoils to a pagan king, the King of Sodom!

If you want to tithe like Abraham.
The next time you're involved in a lawsuit which you win, you should give 10% of the judgment to a pastor/priest (or any Christian as we are all now priests) and the other 90% to the attorney (after covering your own costs).
You should only do this once in your life.
Now you are tithing like Abraham...

Simon

 

[Dave M]

Hi Simon

DO you have some organizations that you can recommend to give to?? do you do much giving ?? just curios if I am to intrusive forgive me and just ignore the question. I love giving I believe its my main gift from God. All the organizations I give to have less then 10% administrative cost. God bless

 

[Simon]

Hi Simon

DO you have some organizations that you can recommend to give to?? do you do much giving ?? just curios if I am to intrusive forgive me and just ignore the question. I love giving I believe its my main gift from God. All the organizations I give to have less then 10% administrative cost. God bless

On the most part, I would encourage you to stop giving to organizations.

Many NPOs live to serve themselves, many churches included, with the org itself absorbing most of the funding.
Consider Samaritan's Purse, where Franklin Graham earns about $600,000 a year to head this org.
For 600K a full time job right? No, Franklin was also earning about $600,000 a year heading Billy Graham's Evangelical Assoc at the same time.
When he was criticized in the media for his 1.2 million in salaries he started working for the BGEA for free for a couple of years, until the heat died down.
Now Franklin makes about $880,000 heading both orgs.
The biggest irony: he's the son of the founder of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/religion/article30505932.html
(shame on us, a secular media source)

Many other NPOs do more harm than good. Consider the tons of clothing dumped in Africa, completely destroying the indigenous garment industry, and millions of jobs along with it.

Don't we believe that God puts us in a place for a purpose?
Stop believing that it's more Holy to give to some poor kid in another country, than a poor kid in your extended family, or in your community.
Cut out admin costs altogether, and give directly.

Imagine if Christians gave the hundreds of BILLIONs they give to church buildings to people in need directly.
How would that change the church?

Simon

 

[amadeus2]

Imagine if Christians gave the hundreds of BILLIONs they give to church buildings to people in need directly.
How would that change the church?

Simon

Yes, just imagine, but while we are imagining why not imagine how it would be if every building advertising a Christian message really always preached and taught that and nothing more...

Me, deciding to tithe or not to tithe without hearing what God has to say about it will get me into trouble with God no matter which pathway I take.

Remember the end result of the unnamed man of God out of Judah who came to talk to Jeroboam [I Kings 13].

First things first!

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[Dave M]

I think Jim Elliot put it best

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm i once helped out at sAmaritans purse. I dont know too much about franklin graham but I do remember sorting mountains of shoeboxes, for operation christmaa child and we got donated all these tennis bAlls that didnt bounce, and I sAid these balls dont bounce should we put them in, because if I was a child I would want a ball that bounced, but the ladies packing them didnt seem to care if some of the things put in there were second rate.

On the most part, I would encourage you to stop giving to organizations.

Many NPOs live to serve themselves, many churches included, with the org itself absorbing most of the funding.
Consider Samaritan's Purse, where Franklin Graham earns about $600,000 a year to head this org.
For 600K a full time job right? No, Franklin was also earning about $600,000 a year heading Billy Graham's Evangelical Assoc at the same time.
When he was criticized in the media for his 1.2 million in salaries he started working for the BGEA for free for a couple of years, until the heat died down.
Now Franklin makes about $880,000 heading both orgs.
The biggest irony: he's the son of the founder of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/religion/article30505932.html
(shame on us, a secular media source)

Many other NPOs do more harm than good. Consider the tons of clothing dumped in Africa, completely destroying the indigenous garment industry, and millions of jobs along with it.

Don't we believe that God puts us in a place for a purpose?
Stop believing that it's more Holy to give to some poor kid in another country, than a poor kid in your extended family, or in your community.
Cut out admin costs altogether, and give directly.

Imagine if Christians gave the hundreds of BILLIONs they give to church buildings to people in need directly.
How would that change the church?

Simon

 

[Dave M]

I know a lot about Franklin and I can tell you he has done more to help advance the Kingdom of God then probaly everyone here on this thread combined, so I would not Judge.

 

[Lanolin]

I just know hes billy grahams son and there is a bio on him at the church library but I havent read it yet. So I cant judge.

But I wouldnt let one lady spoil operation christmas child for everyone else. I did the best I could to sort those boxes..and for some of the fillers told them where to find cute cuddly lambs that would fit inside. Not real ones of course.

And I am thankful OCC donated new bibles to our library. Im just annoyed one of the pastors didnt want those bibles. Actually I am still annoyed that he didnt want my other gifts. Maybe he didnt think they would bounce.

 

[Lanolin]

Maybe he would much rather we gave money.
I dont know. Theres no pleasing some people. Problem is, I dont make any money. i can grow and make food though.

 

[Hekuran]

@Simon you are against tithes, you have nothing good to say about the way churches handle the money they receive, and have said nothing good about not for profit organisations.

What principles do you follow in the way you handle money, and how do these work out practically?

 

[Lanolin]

Yea, what do you do?
I think for most christians they do what God directs them to do...you cannot dictate to people how they choose to give any money they earn. When we pay tax, this usually gets taken away before we even get a chance to spend it anyway.

We are to give cheerfully and freely. I dont see a problem. Usually people dont give money unless they are earning enough to give. Most people give their time. Thats most important to God. Jesus disciples even gave up their jobs to follow Him, so they wouldnt have even been tithing anyway. Most of them were fisherman, and Jesus said feed my sheep, feed my lambs, and he told them where to fish when they werent catching anything.

Also when he did need to pay tax, he got it from a fish.

 

[Simon]

I think Jim Elliot put it best

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.

I believe this should be attributed to Philip Henry, rather than Elliot.
I think we all agree that we should sacrifice in this life to see reward in the next, but how is the question. I say not by tithing to the church on your income.

S

 

[Simon]

@Simon you are against tithes, you have nothing good to say about the way churches handle the money they receive, and have said nothing good about not for profit organisations. What principles do you follow in the way you handle money, and how do these work out practically?

My wife and I 'tithed' 20% of our gross income for about 20 years; but we no longer 'tithe'.
I run a small ministry, and have never ever asked for any money from anyone in any way, I fund expenses myself.
We try to be generous when we come across a genuine need, or if it's someone we know.
When we 'tithed' my wife had to work part time, but now my wife does not work outside the home.
We are not wealthy, but currently have three children in university, one graduated debt free and the others are on track to graduate debt free, by the grace of God.

Simon

 

[roguesoul]

Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

Tithing, as practiced by Christians, has no Biblical foundation; there's no support for giving 10% of your income to the church. The Bible's primary guidance is that we look after the poor.

Church tithes go here (approximately):
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Once you understand this, you may well find yourself asking:
Does God despise the church tithe?

Thoughts?

The church is good at shooting itself in the foot, anyway giving money is never going to solve the problem with the poor.

 

[Simon]

I know a lot about Franklin and I can tell you he has done more to help advance the Kingdom of God then probaly everyone here on this thread combined, so I would not Judge.

You say 'I would not judge', but you judged.
You judged those on this thread and you judged Franklin.
You can't judge and then tell others they can't!!!

The scriptures encourage us to judge other Christians in serious matters.
Earning $1,200,000.00 for holding a job in Christian ministry deserves a lot of Christian scrutiny, regardless of 'good works' or who your father is, and especially if your father founded the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. .


Simon

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm that is a lot of money. The majority of people dont make anything near that amount a year, well,only if they sell their house. Presumably he would be putting it all back into samaritans purse?

I know most of their costs are to actually ship the shoeboxes to the destination, last time I did it they asked for $9 a box. It all gets loaded onto huge containers and then some staff get to go to distribute the gifts. They go all over the world, and the gospel is spread too.

The only thing is, when OCC does ask churches to contribute and those of us in poor areas want to give to our own children first. Its ok for rich people with money to spare its easy for them to fill a shoebox. But i think some people dont have enough..the thing with christmas is theres all this pressure to give things and to spend. So i dont like OCC to pressure churches into giving if they already giving all they have to their local community.