Is God good?

[Jacob123]

Jacob...that's the same thing as the scenario above.

You can either live or you can die. It's your choice.

No one saying that it isn't a choice, but it's not really a free choice now is it? It would be better of saying that it's the law; that it's cumpolsory. It's just word games.

If the taxman came to your house and said, "We have a new tax policy where you can choose to either pay or not pat, but if you don't pay we're going to send you to jail and you're going to get your butt kicked." Is that really a choice? Doesn't it make more sense to say that it's the law?

Regardless, you're still saying that humans can choose what they want, but that is in completely contradiction to the your admission that 'nothing happens that does not go according to God's will.' How can you explain that conflict?

Your not understanding me. Being in hell is being in completely absent of God's presence, everything that is not in God's presence is terrible! Ok, if you don't want to be with God, where do you go? Hell. Why do you go to hell? Because you don't want to be with God, so God granted your wish by sending you to a place were he is completely absent from.

For your second question, I can't really answer it, somethings we will never figure out completely.

 

[smitty]

matthew 11:13-14
for all the prophets and the law prophesied until John,and if you are willing to receive it he is elijah who is to come.
john the baptist was the elijah that was to come, mark 1:4)(luke 3:2-6) (John 1:6-8) John fullfilled the word of God
12 oringinal apostles, matthis, was one (took the apostleship from judas) acts 1:26 paul (romans 1:1 ) how many is that.

now i wonder if people are trying not to have any responsibly for the way they live their life. hell was created by God for the devil and his angles. Matthew 25:41 .rev 20:15, ps 9:17, , matthew 10:28,who arethe wicked those who do not accept jesus christ as savior,

i base my beliefs on what the bible says, not some man who died in the 1960's. i am sorry if that offends anyone, but i trust in Jesus Christ, he died for me on that cross, and Jesus christ is my hope, my life . now ther are pastors and teachers , and others given to the body of Christ to help us grow, but when a man or woman starts to as important as God , i have concerns over that. Jesus is the foundation of our faith, no other name given for salvation, not preachers , pastors, or even angles are that .matter. and yes god is good all the time.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

eagle eyes, what were the prophecies that Rev. Branham predicted.
thanks for the information

I can give you a link to a website which shows prophecies that have come to pass, and details of prophecies that are to come to pass in the future. I'm just not sure if I am allowed to provide links in this forum. It's a website called 'Believe The Sign'.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Branham said=
Now, notice. This man, when he was created, God separated his spirit, and He took a piece off the man, his side, and made a woman out of it. And then He took the feminish, dainty spirit of the man and made a woman out of it, and He made the man masculine, burly. And when you see a--a man that's little, you know, manicuring (or whatever you call it) his fingernails and, you know, four on one side and five on the other, and--and is slicking his hair down, and holding his mouth open in front, and such stuff as that, one of these pretty boys; you just remember, sis, there's something wrong with that bird. There's something wrong. You better keep your eye on him.
Branham said=
Now, Noah and his sons which come out, Ham, Shem, and Japheth, come out in the righteous line. How did the seed ever get over? The seed come over in the ark, just like it did in the beginning through the woman, their wives. They carried the seed of Satan through the ark, just as Eve packed the seed of Satan to give birth to Cain, through the woman. You put them women in your platforms for preachers, the Bible condemning it. Paul said, "If any man thinks himself to be a prophet or even spiritual, let him acknowledge that what I write is the commandments of the Lord; but if he be ignorant, just let him be ignorant."
Branham said=
Now, you say, "Can they dwell together? You said that they're in that ark, Brother Branham. You had in there both Ham and Seth." That's right, exactly right; Ham was evil. Seth was religious and righteous. All right, let's follow Ham.
All right now, there's Ham and Seth in the same ark, one righteous, and the other unrighteous. There was a crow and a dove in the same ark. There was Judas and Jesus in the same church. There was the antichrist and the Holy Spirit in the same church. And today the same spirits work, having a form of godliness, very religious, but "having a form of godliness and denying the power thereof. From such turn away."
Eagle Eyes -what is he talking about

The Truth!

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Eagle! No! That's a serious conflict! Earlier, you said:



He cannot both be a prophet and then merely "predict". Also, if you believe that everything he said in the name of the Lord is true and will come to pass, then you're agreeing to his 1977 prophecy!

That's a conflict.

A conflict? No. With all due respect, you do not appear to understand the difference between a prophesy and a prediciton.

There is a very distinct difference between the word, 'prophecy', and the word, 'prediction'. Prophecy is the foretelling of future events by a human messenger (prophet) under divine inspiration. A prediction, on the other hand, is based on man's ability (not under divine inspiration) to determine what may happen in the future. Prediction is sometimes right but often wrong because it depends on man. Anyone (including prophets) can make predictions, but only true prophets can give prophesies which will come to pass.

What William Branham said about 1977 was just a prediction. He never said this under divine inspiration. He never said his prediction was under divine inspiration. He never said it was 'thus saith the Lord'. He never said that God said something would happen in 1977. It was just purely his own personal thought. Are prophets not allowed to have their own personal thoughts? Even prophets in the Bible were fallible. John the Baptist, while in Prison, send followers to see if Jesus was the one! Previously though, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he said Jesus was the one.

Please go back to the source and find where William Branham said this prediction was divinely given to him. You won't find it.

If you are going to come back and persist with this irrelevant argument, that it was a prophecy, when it clearly wasn't, then please don't bother 'cause, with all due respect, you are clearly wasting your time.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Miss what, Eagle Eyes? Is there something that I would miss by not believing in Branham? You talk of it as though I might miss salvation. ??

And...what??? The 2nd coming may have already happened? What?? Are you implying that Branham was the Christ or something?? What are you eluding to here?

Nevermind...it doesn't really matter. This is a lie through and through.

I'll be honest. Yes, there is definitely something you have missed by not believing the message the Lord Jesus Christ has sent through His prophet, William Branham.

Has the 2nd coming happened already? Yes. Is William Branham Christ? I say again, for what feels likes the hundreth time, he is not the Christ. I have never said he was. William Branham, himself, never said he was. People think he is Christ. They are plainly wrong.

Is it a lie? That's your opinion, but it's not mine.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

matthew 11:13-14
for all the prophets and the law prophesied until John,and if you are willing to receive it he is elijah who is to come.
john the baptist was the elijah that was to come, mark 1:4)(luke 3:2-6) (John 1:6-8) John fullfilled the word of God
12 oringinal apostles, matthis, was one (took the apostleship from judas) acts 1:26 paul (romans 1:1 ) how many is that.

now i wonder if people are trying not to have any responsibly for the way they live their life. hell was created by God for the devil and his angles. Matthew 25:41 .rev 20:15, ps 9:17, , matthew 10:28,who arethe wicked those who do not accept jesus christ as savior,

i base my beliefs on what the bible says, not some man who died in the 1960's. i am sorry if that offends anyone, but i trust in Jesus Christ, he died for me on that cross, and Jesus christ is my hope, my life . now ther are pastors and teachers , and others given to the body of Christ to help us grow, but when a man or woman starts to as important as God , i have concerns over that. Jesus is the foundation of our faith, no other name given for salvation, not preachers , pastors, or even angles are that .matter. and yes god is good all the time.

What did John the Baptist restore?

 

[smitty]

john the baptist came to prepare the way for he lord, that was his calling from God. what did branham restore?
i have a problem with some of his teaching, he did not believe in the trinty, the bible is clear about the trinty, Matthew 3:16-17, matthew 28:19, luke 3:22, 2nd cor 1:21-22, jude 20-21, is 11:2, Is 61:1,
God is the Father. Son. Holy Spirit, if you do not believe this are you doubting the word of God?
he also talked about how angels were the cause of the healing ministry he had. Please show me in the word of God where Jesus used angels to heal,
he was not elijah, john the baptist was, i again use the bible as my answers, all the prophecies of Jesus Christ have been fullfiled, the prophet elijah will come back durning the tribulation and speak on behalf of God,
as far has his predictions, i will wait and see. what was his preditions for 1977?
ee are you folllowing after branham, or Jesus, you seem to get upset or possibly angry when someone disagrees with your postion about him.are you placing your faith in him or Jesus. i have given you scripture from the bible , if you argue with these are you now not believing God, but doubting his word. either you believe the bible or you do not. either follow Jesus or branham you have the choice.

 

[s.i.e.]

I'll be honest. Yes, there is definitely something you have missed by not believing the message the Lord Jesus Christ has sent through His prophet, William Branham.

Has the 2nd coming happened already? Yes. Is William Branham Christ? I say again, for what feels likes the hundreth time, he is not the Christ. I have never said he was. William Branham, himself, never said he was. People think he is Christ. They are plainly wrong.

Is it a lie? That's your opinion, but it's not mine.

Well...thanks for being honest. So, given the fact that I don't believe in Branham, who you call Jesus' prophet -- what exactly happens to me? Hell is in my future, perhaps? What is the path I am destine towards, being that I don't believe in your way?

As for the 2nd coming - I relly can't believe you think this. Don't worry, you've said several times that you don't consider Branham to be the Christ..but, when and where did the 2nd coming happen? When and where do you see it having taken place? And, does that mean that we missed the rapture...and we're now living in the time of tribulation?

And if we've seen the 2nd coming...then you know what, then you're telling me that this world we're living in is as good as it gets? Surely, I have to think that you don't believe we're already living in some sort of paradise here.

All you will do is convince me that God is, in fact, not good!...if you believe that. Please tell me we aren't already living in the end-game!

...I'm trying to be less depressed, not more.


NOW -- Can we return to the original premise of this thread? I've heard enough heresy: HIJACK OVER!

 

[s.i.e.]

Neuro and I have a real question, that still remains outstanding...that would become the cornerstone of faith! Branham or other such heresies are tertiary, to say the least!

 

[Neuroscience101]

There is a very distinct difference between the word, 'prophecy', and the word, 'prediction'. Prophecy is the foretelling of future events by a human messenger (prophet) under divine inspiration. A prediction, on the other hand, is based on man's ability (not under divine inspiration) to determine what may happen in the future. Prediction is sometimes right but often wrong because it depends on man. Anyone (including prophets) can make predictions, but only true prophets can give prophesies which will come to pass.

"Based on these seven visions, along with the rapid changes which have swept the world in the last fifty years, I PREDICT (I do not prophesy) that these visions will have all come to pass by 1977. And though many may feel that this is an irresponsible statement in view of the fact that Jesus said that 'no man knoweth the day nor the hour.' I still maintain this prediction after thirty years because, Jesus did NOT say no man could know the year, month or week in which His coming was to be completed. So I repeat, I sincerely believe and maintain as a private student of the Word, along with Divine inspiration that 1977 ought to terminate the world systems and usher in the millennium."

--- William Branham

Eagle, I didn't even have to bold your quote to find the conflict.

Yes, Eagle, there is a conflict here. It's in Branhams quote itself; he cannot both merely predict, but have "divine inspiration." Hence, he is not predicting, he is making a prophecy.

My apologies, S.I.E. for continuing the hijack. However, it's hypocritical to say that predictions are not "divinely inspired" but Branham's prediction doesn't count despite his claim that it is so.

 

[Neuroscience101]

Your not understanding me. Being in hell is being in completely absent of God's presence, everything that is not in God's presence is terrible! Ok, if you don't want to be with God, where do you go? Hell. Why do you go to hell? Because you don't want to be with God, so God granted your wish by sending you to a place were he is completely absent from.

For your second question, I can't really answer it, somethings we will never figure out completely.

Somehow, my response to this was deleted so I'm going to repost it:

The issue of whether or not Hell is absent of God or not isn't the issue. The gunman has offered you two choices:

You can live which is good. Or you can die which is separate from life. The issue of separation, however, isn't the concern; it's a matter of whether or not we send ourselves to hell.

Same scenario: If you refuse to give me your money, are you committing suicide? Are you the one responsible for your death? If you saw this play out, would you then say, "That man just killed himself!"?

 

[s.i.e.]

My apologies, S.I.E. for continuing the hijack. However, it's hypocritical to say that predictions are not "divinely inspired" but Branham's prediction doesn't count despite his claim that it is so.

no apology necessary, Neuro - I fully understand and respect that the "loose-ends" of this Branham thing need to get tied up...I just wanted to say what I said a post-or-two ago so that the far more important and significant questions don't get lost in the shuffle along the way. Thanks man...



Yes, it is hypocrytical, I agree.

 

[s.i.e.]

Somehow, my response to this was deleted so I'm going to repost it:

Huh? As in, censored?

To the Moderators of these forums: please understand that these questions being asked are, in fact, real questions...and not just an attempt to play devil's advocate here...ok?

Several in this thread have suggested that Christ himself would welcome any and all questions, and can handle them. Others have used the verse "come, let's come together and reason" (sorry...bad paraphrase).

I'm prepared to get kicked off these forums if need be...but so far, I have respected the rules of engagement, and withheld swearing, etc... What has been shown, I believe, has been respectful, and moreover...states the hearts of those with real questions like myself, and Neuro.

Please, allow the organic process that has unfolded here to continue...or, delete my account from these forums.

Thank you.

 

[Hekuran]

I have had posts or parts of posts removed by the moderators in the past. When that has happened, it has been accompanied by a private message with the moderator's reasoning. If you have not received an explanation or a warning, best to assume technical/human error.

The gun to the head analogy is the wrong way around.

God is the life-giver, the source of all goodness, and created us to live in harmony with him. We have choice to reject that, to choose death, evil and chaos.

To bring a relational analogy, if you were to offer me friendship and I reject the offer, I would not be able to blame you for my sense of loneliness or isolation.

 

[Neuroscience101]

The gun to the head analogy is the wrong way around.

God is the life-giver, the source of all goodness, and created us to live in harmony with him. We have choice to reject that, to choose death, evil and chaos.

To bring a relational analogy, if you were to offer me friendship and I reject the offer, I would not be able to blame you for my sense of loneliness or isolation.

But we're not talking about "relations." We're not saying that Hell is a "feeling"; it's being described as a real and tangible place in the afterlife. Using a relational analogy doesn't solve the problem.

If you offer me friendship, and I reject it, I'm not stuck being lonely and isolated for an eternity. I can make other friends; I can form other relationships. Maybe, I have so many that I don't want anymore and I'm already fulfilled; Maybe I don't enjoy your company enough. The relational analogy assumes a false dichotomy; either you accept and you're happy or you don't and you're isolated. That's simply not true.

In addition, you're forgetting an important part to the problem, which is the aspect of who set up the scenario. That's why the gun scenario and the mafia boss example are important. In the relational analogy, there's no clear indication of who set up the scenario; in the gun and mafia boss example, it's clear who set up the issue and is offering the choice.

Also, you're ignoring the third question I asked earlier, "Does anything happen that does not go against God's will?" Clearly, that answer is No.

You're not dealing with the conflict, you're simply using an incorrect analogy to ignore important aspects of the situation.

 

[s.i.e.]

you're forgetting an important part to the problem, which is the aspect of who set up the scenario. That's why the gun scenario and the mafia boss example are important. In the relational analogy, there's no clear indication of who set up the scenario; in the gun and mafia boss example, it's clear who set up the issue and is offering the choice.

I agree. Again, this idea rings true here:

Choice is an illusion, created between those with power and those without.

In "normal, organic, relationships", there is not one who holds the power vs. one who does not.

 

[s.i.e.]

b/t/w Neuro - I can't PM you. That may be something you've blocked, perhaps? No need to change that for me, if you wish...but just as an FYI

 

[s.i.e.]

If you have not received an explanation or a warning, best to assume technical/human error.

Hekuran - you're right...and to the moderators here, I apologize for not first being quick to assume the best. It wasn't my post that was deleted (at least, not to my knowledge), so I don't know if there was or wasn't communication, as such.

I want to be the kind of person that is quick to assume the best, first. I'm working on that. Thanks for your grace.

 

[Hekuran]

Ok, if the relational analogy does not work for you, dump it.

But maybe think a little more about what the Bible teaches about hell. Dante describes it in exquisite detail in his inferno - and much of our thinking about hell is drawn from this. People who describe themselves as Bible-only believers often read these popular ideas back into the Bible texts.

I'd suggest that a relational approach is more in tune with the Bible. You are right to make the criticisms that you do of my illustration, especially the initiative/power element. The obvious biblical metaphors are Lord, King, Father. Each of them is relational, and in each there is power/authority element

The answer to the question "does anything happen that goes against God's will":




Yes.