Is God good?

[james g]

Eagle Eyes Seriously

<DIR>Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.Cain was Adam's son, not the serpent's .Eve's sin and Adam's sin was violating a simple command of God not to eat of the fruit of one tree in the garden ( Gen 2:16-17)[/SIZE]
This nonsensical teaching has been around for a long while. It is found in the Gnostic writing: The Gospel of Philip, written about 350 A. D. Gnosticism was a system of false doctrine that revolved around the idea that there was hidden knowledge needed to be saved that only a few were privileged to know. This particular false teaching was picked up by the Christian Identity Movement to justify their hatred of non-Caucasian people. They want to claim that non-white skinned people descended from an illicit union of Eve and the serpent. The whole concept is lies being perpetuated from a foundation of lies.
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[Eagle_Eyes]

*jaw dropping on floor*

Wow dude. Seriously. Wow. I'm a sucker for conspiracy theory, and I'm always curious to see how cult-groups think...but what you offered here is neither/nor of those...but it is some of the craziest theology that I've heard in quite some time, I've gotta admit!

You should sell the screenplay bro - you'd make millions. Seriously. That's some pretty interesting stuff there.

Ok, so...

- hell will end. It is not, really, as the Bible says: eternal. You and Rob Bell may agree on that...many consider that heresy. I'm not sure I consider it heresy, personally.

- You say sin is only in this world because of Satan perverting the world with his seed, through impregnating Eve...that's crazy enough...BUT, that does nothing, still, to take God out of the equation of putting sin in the world, as God made Satan, so why come up with this fantastic theology, when it still doesn't do away with one of the "problems" you're apparently trying to get around? At least, one of them...(while introducing a host of other questions, issues, complications...needless to say!) You claim John 8:44 proves that Satan was evil in the beginning

- If Cain was "non-eternal" because Satan was Cain's father...but Able was his twin...then what is Able to you? Was he eternal? Was Able not impregnated by the Serpent also? Was the Serpent and Adam engaging in a little ménage à trois perhaps?

- Ok...this one is really interesting: who was it, or who are you saying it was, that is the "Elijah who will come restore all things" that people missed? Who is this "him"? You're saying it wasn't Jesus, or John the Baptist...so, who was it?

- The trinity is a lie of the devil brought to us by the RCC, you say? I'm not really sure how or why this changes my faith. What's the damage that lie has created in your mind?


I have to say, this is very interesting stuff Eagle Eyes. Not sure how you got towards believing this...but it is, well, interesting

Cain was the son of the serpent. Abel was the son of Adam. They were both sons of Eve. Abel is eternal; Cain is not! Even today, there are women that have twins, and they are of different fathers. It is not impossible.

The thing is, Adam was created by the Spoken Word of God. Then the devil, incarnate in the serpent, crept in and with carnal knowledge seduced Eve. Consider this - God said to the serpent that he would put emnity between her (Eve) seed and his seed. What is seed? Think about it. As God used the seed of the woman to bring Jesus Christ into the world, Satan used the seed of the serpent to inject himself into the human race. How do you think the human race is in such a fallen state?

Who is this Elijah - it is William Marrion Branham.

As for the trinity - it hasn't caused me any damage. But it has caused untold damage to millions of so called christians.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Eagle Eyes Seriously


<DIR>Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.Cain was Adam's son, not the serpent's .Eve's sin and Adam's sin was violating a simple command of God not to eat of the fruit of one tree in the garden ( Gen 2:16-17)[/SIZE]
This nonsensical teaching has been around for a long while. It is found in the Gnostic writing: The Gospel of Philip, written about 350 A. D. Gnosticism was a system of false doctrine that revolved around the idea that there was hidden knowledge needed to be saved that only a few were privileged to know. This particular false teaching was picked up by the Christian Identity Movement to justify their hatred of non-Caucasian people. They want to claim that non-white skinned people descended from an illicit union of Eve and the serpent. The whole concept is lies being perpetuated from a foundation of lies.
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james g,

Do you honestly believe that eating some fruit cause the fall of mankind?

You need to look at this from another angle; not look at trees and fruit. Some of the Bible is written in symbolic form, you have to agree. The question you have to ask is this, 'who is the tree of Life', not 'what is it?' Jesus Christ is the tree of Life. He said He was the Bread of Heaven, Well of Life, etc. If Jesus Christ was the tree of Life, then who was the tree of knowledge of good and evil? It has to be a person also.

Also, Cain murdered his brother, Abel (actually his half-brother). You inherit genes from your father, right? So, if Cain was God's son that would mean that God is a murderer. Is God a murderer? Cain lied to God when asked where Able was. Is God a liar? Who is a liar and a murderer? Who did Jesus say was a murderer from the beginning?

Yes, Eve said she had gotten a man from the Lord, and so she had. But there is a vast difference between being created by God, and being of God. Cain was not the latter. Could not be!

I think it is very dangerous to call something nonsense when you don't truly understand it. Yes, there is a lot of nonsense out there, but there is also the Truth. Counterfeit money shows there is true money somewhere. False prophets shows there is a true one someone. We have to look for this true prophet who will be totally vindicated. How? Everything he says, by saying 'thus saith the Lord', will come to pass. That man has come and gone and millions have missed him.

The sad thing, james g, is that there is an exclusive people who God will take out of the way before the Great Tribulation. How many people survived the flood out of the millions on the face of the earth? Just 8! The sad thing also is that people do not want to believe the truth when they see it!

 

[Brighthouse]

I know of this Man!!Many believe him to be a prophet,some believe him to be the 13th apostle!! Coming out of jeffersonville Kentucky,some of us attented a tent revival he had,a Tornado came,many ran for cover,the Tornado came within a few hundred yards of this man as he stood outside,then the Tornado went back up in the air,well the people were buzzing!!

As Branham came to the pulpit he said fear not,it was just the Lord talking to me. This man was doing some great work of the Lord,until he fell out of doctine in the Trinity,he was warned 4 different times in prophetesies to stop peaching this lie to the people!!

One night he was on a dark road,a drunk driver killed him,not right away,he died 6 days later.He died because he lied about God's own nature! He died because of his pride,Elijah did not see death Branham did,and you have no scripture whatsoever to even compare Elijah to this man!!

This LIE comes from the cult of Branham!! These people live on his every word,even a cough is reported when he does it!Give me a break! I have to speak out of this, because you are lieing to us and to yourself to think a dead man who saw death is going to replace a man who never saw death! Be very careful!! The same woe which happened to Branham can happen to others who speak such lies! I notice no scripture for you belief,I know why!! there isn't any!! If you will not recieve love, you will recieve justice in the Lord! Sorry all,I rarely get this mad,but i knew this man myself,and I know what THEY teach others!

 

[s.i.e.]

brother Bright and james g: love hearing your testimony and seeing scriptures regarding this Branham subject. Love seeing and hearing the truth here.

I grew up in a religeous culture that socialized me in things of this nature. Never heard of this guy in particular --- but was introduced to a number of other crazy theology / doctrine that wasn't far off.

And as a kid, I think it does untold damage. I think it's mental abuse, really...except in the spiritual realm.

I think part of my questions of God today, in part, originate from me still trying to unwind some of these crazy doctrine's / theologies / lies...that really are cult-like, or cult-ish.


Eagle Eyes - I don't say any of this to shame you. I think you have bought a seriously damaging pack of lies, my friend. Look at the verse you have at the bottom of your post, Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust the LORD than put your confidence in man"

This guy, Branham -- was just a man. It was interesting to pull up a few things about the guy. I think the most deceptive lies have a lot of truth in them, which is exactly why they can be so deceptive and confusing. This guy seemed to share a lot of truth...but also some very deep and damaging lies. Also, we're now 34 years past 1977, the year when he forecasted the end of the world. Now we have Harold Camping predicting it tomorrow and he'll be wrong too. It seems Branham didn't fancy himself a prophet...but nonetheless, his word failed.

Eagle Eyes - I'm blind to much, and I need to see the light. I believe you have been led astray in different ways that I. I pray that you and I both can see the light that is needed for our Spirits so that we can both enter into Love, fully, deeply, and unabashadly.

I believe our hearts hold something so great, so big, so wonderful...that they are being fought for. In the heavens. I want to find a way to allow heaven to win that fight.

 

[james g]

Eagle Eyes -So the Serpent was not the devil so who is the serpent.the devil who was incarnate in the Serpent.you said.so you say he is the serpent and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.You inherit genes from your father.so the devil is good and evil. So David when killed Uriah .Was he the devils son?.Eagle Eyes do you honestly believe that

 

[Brighthouse]

As you can look this man up, you will find,this most helpful. When any man stands up and tells you he has full truth given by God himself,you know one thing for cetain,they are lieing. 1 Cor 13:12 For now we see in a mirror darkly, but then face to face now I know in what???amen PART!! but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

Love does not boast!1 Cor 13:4 1 Cor 13:9 For we know in what?? amen part we prophesy in part as well! I myself sure do not have full truth!! nor full knowledge,I can only speak on what part I believe the Lord has shown me on any area of the Word.You judge my words,as well you should!

When I preach in a church I want all to have there Bibles open,to see if what I am telling them can be found in the Word. Faith in me will save no one!! Faith in Christ only can! When any man directs you to himself he forgets what John The Baptist said when Jesus came!!John 3:30-31!! HE meaning Jesus must increase, but what??? amen I must decrease He who comes from above is ABOVE!!ALL!

He who is of the earth and speaks of the earth.He who comes from heaven is ABOVE ALL! Finally matt 7:13-21 please give attention to verses 15-21! Now this man had the goods!! many signs even in the library of Congress can be found on this man! please read 2 Cor 11:12-15 his end was according to his deeds! When we step out of the word in any area,we step into darkness,and God will not permit his sheep to be led astray for very long!

As you know there are many who believe themselves to either be the Christ,or have full truth in God's Word. You now know by seeing the Word for yourself,this is not possible.

This man also talked against the churches as well, humm Paul went to many!! 2 Cor 11:6-10! What is true, is that many church doctrine is that of men,this is true,but even as this may be, Hebrews 10:26 says not to forsake our own assembling together. lots of different churches you will notice in revelation as well, in Ephesus we see in Rev 2 verse 4-5 they lost there first love. therfore!! verse 5!! remember from where you have fallen and repent! This brother lost his lampstand because he lost his first love.

People who become ambassadors in Christ ( 2 Cor 5:20) have a greater judgment upon them as well. here is a scripture few will quote you!! Matt 12:36-37!! Tough truth,but you see this for yourself. This man forgot the word,and so lost his lampstand.sad really!! he really started off so well!!many do.

Ask Jim Bakker,ask Jimmey Swaggert.In the end all suffered the same fate! Proverbs 16:17-18 Pride cometh before a great fall!! Indeed it always will.How do I know this? because I myself fell,I thought God was my servent,I speak, he does! But like Peter I repented.For pride denies, because self has replaced Jesus,and when this happens destruction engulfs us. I stay humble now!! I know who is the servent,ME! And who is my Master!! His name is Jesus Christ! hope this helps you!

 

[Neuroscience101]

go to You Tube and type in "God the Psycho", and check out Pat Condell's 6.5min clip.

just an atheist arguing about something he supposedly doesn't believe in.Its funny how people that say they dont believe in God can only talk about God.Do they often put forth this much effort, spend this much time on a God they dont believe to exist?

James, that argument gets thrown around quite a bit but it doesn't work... especially in the correct context.:wink:

The problem, at least in America, is not that the Atheist who does not believe...it's the fact that there are others who use their religion as justification for affecting and changing the American laws and rights of other citizens.

There's a really good YouTube video on this that highlights the idea of, "Well you don't talk about other things you don't believe in, so you must believe in this." I would paraphrase it but that wouldn't be right to me.

The only way someone can argue against something that affects them - whether they believe it or not - is to actually argue against it. You're essentially putting forth a scenario in which the person is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Simply because someone argues against something is not indicative of their true feelings.

 

[james g]

There's a really good YouTube video on this that highlights the idea of, "Well you don't talk about other things you don't believe in, so you must believe in this." I would paraphrase it but that wouldn't be right to me.Ok I'll look at it.

 

[Neuroscience101]

People send themselves to hell by choosing not to live for Jesus Christ. If they don't want Jesus Christ, or Life if you will, there is only one alternative - hell. Thus why God doesn't send anyone to hell.

EE, that dances around what S.I.E. said before on the issue of God knowing what Humans will decide in advance.

The latter, I have to agree with S.I.E., is a bit theologically dishonest.

For instance, try to follow this:

1) Did God create Hell?

2) Does God create the rules of the universe including the criteria by which souls are judged?

3) Does anything happen that does not go according to God's will?

We all know the answer to these questions (yes, yes and no respectfully), and it follows that - if they are all true, of which they are because they come from the Bible (which is of course not an assertion that the Bible is true, however it acts on that assumption in the theological sense) - then God is ultimately responsible for everything including the souls that are sent to hell.

 

[Neuroscience101]

Ok I'll look at it.

Alright, but let me preface with this:

1) It is done by an Atheist. You will not enjoy his humor or his position. However, the video is a great example of why the argument just doesn't work.

2) You're probably going to take offense by the way he refers to you as "theists". Please focus on the actual video, and try not to take offense.

PM incoming.

 

[james g]

what is it called and by who

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Wow, it is certainly obvious that none of you actually know anything about this man, else you wouldn't make such baseless and railing accusations!

Have any of you actually bothered to read or hear any of Bro. Branham's messages? Or have you merely gathered your 'material' second-hand from various websites, which also hurl own baseless accusations, or from your churches or pastors or from your own thoughts? You go read for yourself what he preached, then come back and tell me he taught falsely, judged on what you read and not on what someone else said.

Brighthouse - I don't believe, for one minute, that Bro. Branham is God or Christ or the 13th apostle (there isn't one). I follow Christ and Christ alone. I believe that Bro. Branham is a prophet, whom Christ sent, because everything he has 'prophesied' has come to pass and will come to pass. He spearheaded the healing revival in the 50s (did you know that?) and yet people dropped him like a ton of bricks because what he was saying was not lining up with what their churches said. Many prophets in the Bible were dropped like a ton of bricks. Moses led 2 million people around in the wilderness for 40 years. What did Jesus say about them? 'They're everyone dead'. Why is this? Because they didn't believe God's prophet who was totally vindicated. God has never ever sent a group of men to lead his people. He has only ever sent one man at any one time. If it is not Bro. Branham, who is it then? You will not find anywhere anyone or anything that will disclaim that he was a prophet. Nobody can or will. And yet people cast railing accusations against him. Is it not strange that everyone followed Jesus when he did miracles and made bread but when he started to speak, people walked no more with him. The truth is never popular. People rather cling to a lie to save face. And what is a cult? It's when you follow a man. As I said, I don't follow Bro. Branham but I follow Christ. True, there are people that say Bro. Branham is God, but they are wrong. He was just a man.

It's funny - you say that he started off well then went off the rails. Did he? People that worship the Trinity, i.e., Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, are basically committing fornication because God said that there should be no other God but Him. So why are people worshipping the Son and Holy Ghost as well? Can't you see that they are all one and the same person? Bro. Branhan was not off the rails - the denominations and organisations were and are! Where did God ever tell anyone in the Bible to organise? You won't find it. God works on individuals and individuals alone!
It is very sad also that you resort to saying he was killed by a drunk driver and this was because of his pride. Again, you know nothing about this man. He was one of the most humble men you could ever hope to meet. You say that Elijah didn't see death. What about John the Baptist who also had the spirit of Elijah on him? You seem to have conveniently left him out.

Scriptures for Bro. Branham? I have a few: Malachi 4:5-6; Matthew 17:11; Revelation 10:7.

james g - by the time of David, the seed of the serpent had so intermingled with the seed of the woman that even children of God could commit terrible acts - amazing but true. That's how David could have Uriah killed. Doesn't mean he was of the devil. Murder is not sin; unbelief is. If David was an unbeliever also then he would be of the devil.

s.i.e. - You refer me to Psalms 118:8 - I have put my trust in the Lord. I refer you to 2 Chronicles 20:20 and Amos 3:7. You show me anywhere where Bro. Branham prophesied (not predicted) and it didn't come to pass, and I'll call him a false prophet. You won't find it. What Bro. Branham said about 1977 was his own personal opinion and prediction; not a prophecy. Entirely different.

Bro.Branham only preached from the Bible. Nowhere else. What he taught were not add-ons but mystery truths hidden in the Word since before the foundation of the world.

No doubt, you will all come back with more accusations and excuses, but I know where I stand. Do you?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Will God's will be done?

It's not his will that any should perish so how can any perish?
I would call that a conflict.

If we can't answer these kind of simple questions then we are easy pickins for atheists.


In the Old Testament(KJV) Sheol was translated 31 times as "the grave"
and 31 times as hell and 3 times as "the pit".
In the new testament Jesus named "Gehenna" as the place that "their worm dieth not and the fire never ceases".
Gehenna was the city dump outside Jerusalem.Which very unfortunately was translated as "hell".
Jesus also used Sheol which translated hell.
Solomon said those in "the grave" know nothing.
Jesus used "the dump" allegory to emphasize a wasted life not eternal punishment.

Rev. 20:13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

According to revelation there are dead people in lots of places.
"In my Fathers house there are many mansions".
It's a house in a house.

Now if bad people drown does God leave them in the sea or drag them out and throw them in hell.

 

[james g]

Eagle Eyes -you said Murder is not sin; unbelief is. If David was an unbeliever also then he would be of the devil.So before we believe we are the seed of the serpent.Eagle Eyes you said -Have any of you actually bothered to read or hear any of Bro. Branham's messages?Here he is, the serpent.Here he was a great big fellow. And the devil comes down. Now, he says, "I can inspire." Now, when you go to looking at women and actions of women, remember you are anointed of the devil, if it's not your own wife. Notice. Now, the devil come down and got into the serpent, and he found Eve in the garden of Eden naked. And he talked about the fruit in the midst, the "midst" means "middle" and so forth. You understand in a mixed congregation. And he said, "Now, it's pleasant. It's good to the eye." What did he do? He begin making love to Eve. And he lived with her as a husband. And she saw it was pleasant, so she went and told her husband; but she was already pregnant by Satan. And she brought forth her first son whose name was Cain, the son of Satan."Now," you say, "that's wrong." All right, we'll just find out whether it's wrong or not. "And I will put enmity between thy seed and the serpent's seed." What? The serpent's seed. She had a seed, and he had a seed. "And he shall bruise thy head, and you shall bruise his heel." A "bruise" there means "to make an atonement."Now, there's your seed of the serpent. Now, notice, here comes these two men out.Now, this serpent, when he stood there... This great big giant of a fellow stood up there. He was guilty of committing adultery with Adam's wife. Where's sin lay today? What makes things the way they are today? (Now, I--I... Surely you can catch what I'm talking about.) And there he was. And when he did, God said, begin to call for Eve and Adam. And he said, "I was naked."And He said, "Who told you you was naked?" Then they begin to--in army fashion, passing the buck.Said, "Well, the woman You gave me done it. She was the one who persuaded me."And she said, "The serpent give me an apple." All right, preacher, get next to yourself. She said, "The serpent beguiled me." Do you know what "beguile" means? Means "defiled." The...?... The devil never gave her an apple. "The serpent has beguiled me." And then the curse came.He said, "Because you listened to the serpent in the stead of your husband, you took life from the world; and you--now you'll multiply your sorrows, and your conception shall be to your husband," and so forth. "And because you listened to your wife instead of me--I took you from the dust the highest specie--back to the dust you go." "And serpent, because you did that, off goes your legs; upon your belly you'll go all the days of your life. And you'll be hated, and dust shall be your meat." There you are. There's that missing link.Does not add up.add-ons by him.. Through one man sin entered into the world.so was adam the seed of the serpent too.or is he saying adam is the serpent.
all have sinned

 

[Brighthouse]

Eagle Eyes,YES!!! I am well aware, he did indeed spearhead the healing movment!! In fact as I stated many of the wonderful miracles preformed in some of his meeting can be found in the very library of Congress!!

My intent was not to anger you,my intent was to bring to simple truth about this man which all can read on him.Branham also believed that an angel guided him through out his entire life,did you know that? And when asked at a meeting to which I am sure you have transcripts of, Is this the Holy Spirit moving? he replied," no it is my angel around me who does these things." Now to this, here is the problem. Gal 1:6-9 please read this. As to his healing ministry!! I said to you,he had the goods! The scripture you gave me on Matt 17:11 speaks of Elijah, ah I do not see Branhams name in the Bible do you? Nor in any other part of the Bible,if you would have read my entire article on this man,I gave him credit where it is due,I base my belief on God's Word,you have stated you believe as well.

Check out the 23rd Chapter of Jeremiah, I think you will find it facinating reading. I am not trashing the man,I am trashing his false doctrine! This is all I will say on this subject,I just want other believers to understand,that when someone preaches something other then the Word of God, to please take notice of this. May the true light of God's Word cut through the fog you are in amen!

 

[Neuroscience101]

Eagle Eyes, if you get a chance, return to page thirteen and my first comment to you so that you may answer.

Bro.Branham only preached from the Bible. Nowhere else. What he taught were not add-ons but mystery truths hidden in the Word since before the foundation of the world.

...

What Bro. Branham said about 1977 was his own personal opinion and prediction; not a prophecy

EE, that's called a conflict. If the Bible is the word of God, and the word of God is perfect, then the Bible is perfect and can contain no errors. If he is to make a prediction - based on the Bible and, as he put it, "seven visions, along with the rapid changes which have swept the world in the last fifty years" as well as being "a private student of the Word" - then that's what's known as a prophecy. Both he - and you - are trying to make an arbitrary distinction between predictions based on Gods word ad prophesying based on Gods word; there is none.

 

[smitty]

to the question about God yes i know he isgood based on my life and the things he has done for me. the fall of mankind came through the disobedence of adam and eve , they disobayed God word, don't eat of the tree, God created angles and mankind with their own free will to choose what they would do , obey God or not. man sends himself to hell, not God , you either accept Christ or you do not. God is a gentleman, He will not force Himself on you. as for branham, if he teaches that eve and satan had childern, show me in the bible. now according to genesis, the sons of God took wives for thmseleves, this may represent fallen angles, but it does not mention eve. God is the same, he does not change, ps 102:26, 27, james 1:17, so God is the same in both the new and new tesaments, i believe in the trinty, i can not explain it, but i believe it. now my thoughts on branham, if he taught on any subject and without a biblical background or proof in the word, i have to pause on his teachings. i do know that placing that much faith in man is wrong, i put my faith in Jesus Christ, i have noticed something about faith healers, they start good, but somehow they think themsevles the only ones to whom God speaks. Billy Graham was not a faith healer, but i know God spoke to him. my point is ther many godly pastors and all do not preach that the american dream, and that is basiclly all i see on christian tv. the word teaches me i will have troubles, and trails, no matter how much i serve God, and the more i serve God the more satan attack.

 

[s.i.e.]

Eagle Eyes: so, Branham is largely credited for ushering in the "faith healing" movement. Well, there's another paradox.

Doesn't the Bible teach that faith itself, is a gift from God? So...what part do we as humans play in this vs. God? Again, being theologically honest...it's got to be God.


And what is the fruit that this "faith healing" movement has gotten us? You know, "you will know them by their fruits" and all?

It is not a credit to Branham's name, the fact that we've got these "faith healing" guys that we have today, in Benny Hinn, Keneth Copeland, or even guys like Pat Robertson, in my opinion.

 

[Neuroscience101]

man sends himself to hell, not God , you either accept Christ or you do not.

The problem with that explanation is the same one I posted before on page thirteen, and it inevitably leads to the' Mafia Boss' analogy.

In essence, you're saying that God has created this scenario and tells Adam and Eve that they can either obey him and be alright or disobey and get go to hell; how is this different than a Mafia Boss walking into someones store and saying, "Hey we can protect you from this, but you gotta pay and if you don't we're gonna break your thumbs"?

Another analogy commonly heard is this: I walk up to you and put a gun to your head. I then say, "Give me all of your money, don't make me shoot you." If you then refuse to give me your money, have you committed suicide?