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Is Jesus really God?

And I've already established that to be the "Son of God" is to be equal with God. The scriptures speak clearly enough, but it's obvious you're too sure of yourself to be reproved. And "contending for the faith" doesn't mean you should contentiously run around forums arguing with people continually about every point of doctrine. That's not the Spirit of God at work, that's fleshly.

The "faith" they were defending was in Jesus' sacrifice which loosed people from the bondage of the law and legalistic doctrines of men.
 
So Jesus is cursed and bringing a curse upon us? The savior of the world? Really? The pharisee were right and Jesus was wrong?
When we are talking about God (capital G) and gods (lower case G) it is very important to put the correct one.
First your quote of Isaiah 65:15 is taken out of context... The name being cursed here is the Israelites that turned away from God (Isa 65:1-14) not Jesus' name.
In John 10:34, we are called gods (lower case G) as in lesser to god.
In John 20:28 Thomas called Jesus God (upper case G) as in most high God.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

As for Jesus merely being "like the father" or "like a God", he was God-like enough to create all of the heavens and the earth.
Col 1:16; John 1:3; John 1:10 - that's pretty God like. In fact I would say it is God.
Jesus' name itself means GOD with us.
Matt 1:23; Isa 7:14; Isa 9:6

can these scriptures be a lie? I did not write them, i read them.

His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
 
It seems that there is yet a confusion as to what people mean by "God." Some people are thinking of "God" as a proper name; it's not. When you say "God," you are referring to a unique being that is comprised of three triune persons. To refer to this being as "God" is akin to "God" referring to Ezekiel as "Son of Man."

"God" is the Father, "God" is the Son, "God" is the Spirit. The Father, the Son, the Spirit--these are "God."

It seems that several people, Michelle included, are using "God" to exclusively refer to the Father, in which case when they say, "Jesus is not God," what they mean to say is, "Jesus is not the Father."

All I can say to that is DUH.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I feel rather confident in saying that when most Christians identify Jesus as God, they are recognizing Jesus' divinity in relation to the Father. The Son does not eclipse the Father; He reveals the Father.

That means that Jesus, as the Son, is God, distinct from the Father in person but one in essence.

Therefore, unless anyone cares to elaborate on a different set of definitions other than what I set forth, this argument is completely pointless.

On a side note regarding the "Word," there is an interesting study behind it. When the Hebrew language fell into disuse save for education and ceremonies, it became necessary for rabbis to use Aramaic commentaries for the common people (sort of how the Roman Catholics read in Latin and provided commentary in whichever local language was in use). These became "footnotes" in Hebrew texts to assist a lay reader. An interesting "targum" (as they were called) was adding the word "word" to scriptural theophanies (a theophany is an appearance of God): rather than saying, "And the Lord came to so-and-so," or, "The Lord said to so-and-so," the Aramaic commentary added "Word," so that the lay reader would think, "And the Word of the Lord came to so-and-so," or, "The Word of the Lord said..."
This was to assist the lay reader in their understanding of a transcendent God who does not have a physical form, for the heathen gods were said to appear in one form or another. The "Word of God" was an Aramaic phrase intending to assist the Jewish reader to understand that God Himself did not appear in His fullness (which would be impossible), but merely a manifestation of His will.
When John said, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us," it would've shocked the Jewish community, because "the Word" was already established as the manifestation of God's will. John, being a Jew, knew exactly what he was claiming: that Jesus is the living, breathing will of God.
The Greeks, on the other hand, had a slightly different understanding. The Greek word used is "Logos," and while it does mean "word," it's more than just "word." A logos is the idea behind the word, like a thought made manifest. The Stoics (a branch of Greek philosophy) believed that the universe has two halves, a physical and a metaphysical. They taught that the physical is inert and therefore requires the metaphysical to move it (think of it as a primitive form of the idea that a rock requires the force of gravity to fall off a cliff). What did the Stoics believe guided the metaphysical half of the universe and therefore also controlled the physical half? You might've guessed it: the Logos. Therefore, when a Greek would've read John's statement that "the Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us," that would've been akin to telling Luke Skywalker that the Force was fashioned as a man and lived incognito until the time came to reveal himself as our salvation. It would've rocked the Greek community.

All of that is to say, John used "Logos" very specifically; other words would've worked if he just wanted to say "word," like the Greek "rema," which means nothing but "word." John was inspired by the Holy Spirit to convey a very specific truth about Jesus, both in His function within the Godhead, His place in the universe, and His purpose for us. I am rather certain that neither the Holy Spirit nor John intended for people to bicker about different sides of the same coin.
 
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Jesus is the Sun. The Sun is God. The Sun is the "LIGHT" of the world. I know it's tuff for church type people to understand the Bible is COMPLETELY symbolic.
He is the Sun of Man... aka Son of Man
It's the same thing
I know most of you on here don't want to hear this. But it's true. It needs to be said on here
Freedom of speech, is how we better understand the Bible.
The KJV Bible was written from the Samarian tablets. The Samarian tablets out date the King James by 4000 to 5000 years.
Even the story of Moses is in the Samarian tablets. But his name is not Moses.
 
Trib, it's not accurate to say the Bible is completely symbolic. God does use a great deal of symbolism, though. And, the sun is the center of our universe for a reason. And the Sun in the Old Testament often refers to Jesus. I woke up this morning, sat on my back porch beneath the sunrise, and said, "Thank, You Jesus!" I then shouted to my wife, "Jesus is the center of our universe!"

With that being said, the Bible is loaded with literal and practical knowledge and wisdom that every Christian must apply to their lives and their walk with Him.
 
It seems that there is yet a confusion as to what people mean by "God." Some people are thinking of "God" as a proper name; it's not. When you say "God," you are referring to a unique being that is comprised of three triune persons. To refer to this being as "God" is akin to "God" referring to Ezekiel as "Son of Man."

"God" is the Father, "God" is the Son, "God" is the Spirit. The Father, the Son, the Spirit--these are "God."

It seems that several people, Michelle included, are using "God" to exclusively refer to the Father, in which case when they say, "Jesus is not God," what they mean to say is, "Jesus is not the Father."

All I can say to that is DUH.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I feel rather confident in saying that when most Christians identify Jesus as God, they are recognizing Jesus' divinity in relation to the Father. The Son does not eclipse the Father; He reveals the Father.

That means that Jesus, as the Son, is God, distinct from the Father in person but one in essence.

Therefore, unless anyone cares to elaborate on a different set of definitions other than what I set forth, this argument is completely pointless.

Amen. There are a lot of wacky teachings out there on the triune nature of God. And like I said earlier, if we approach it with a carnal mindset it can easily get confusing. But when the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit of Jesus, it isn't meaning two spirits. It's one and the same Spirit. Just like Jesus and the Father are one.
 
It seems that there is yet a confusion as to what people mean by "God." Some people are thinking of "God" as a proper name; it's not. When you say "God," you are referring to a unique being that is comprised of three triune persons. To refer to this being as "God" is akin to "God" referring to Ezekiel as "Son of Man."

"God" is the Father, "God" is the Son, "God" is the Spirit. The Father, the Son, the Spirit--these are "God."

It seems that several people, Michelle included, are using "God" to exclusively refer to the Father, in which case when they say, "Jesus is not God," what they mean to say is, "Jesus is not the Father."

All I can say to that is DUH.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I feel rather confident in saying that when most Christians identify Jesus as God, they are recognizing Jesus' divinity in relation to the Father. The Son does not eclipse the Father; He reveals the Father.

That means that Jesus, as the Son, is God, distinct from the Father in person but one in essence.

Therefore, unless anyone cares to elaborate on a different set of definitions other than what I set forth, this argument is completely pointless.

Believe it or not there are those who do claim that Jesus IS His Father. Incarnated lock stock and barrel. This is a deception up and coming that if we are not clear about Who God the Father, His Son is, then it is going to lead a whole lot of
people astray.

You guys can rail on about how Jesus is not second in command, or that there is not one above Him that we are actually reconciled to, but as for me, I'll stick with what the scriptures really say. Mark my words, this oneness thing is on the
way into the Christian churches more subtlely that many realize. They have hijacked the whole concept of the trinity, and erased the line between who The God above all gods, and who Jesus is. It is better to be forewarned about it so
the Body of Christ can get their own doctrine beliefs solid before it hits.
 
Amen. Man can debate this until the cows come home. It will be like the M&M commercial with Santa. When Jesus comes back , "He does exisit!" Only a God could come back as he will.
 
Jesus is the Sun. The Sun is God. The Sun is the "LIGHT" of the world. I know it's tuff for church type people to understand the Bible is COMPLETELY symbolic.

It's tough for pseudo-scholars to understand that homonyms (words that sound alike, such as there, their, and they're) do not exist in different languages. The Greek word for "son" is uihos, while the Greek word for "sun" is ilios.
In Hebrew, the distinction is even greater: "sun" is shemesh and "son" is ben.

By "Samarian," I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean "Sumerian." Sumeria was an ancient civilization, while Samaria is a region north of Judea (for example, the Good Samaritan would've been from Samaria). I had to look up the Sumerian words online at the University of Pennsylvania's website, which was relatively easy to find. According to professionals, the Sumerian word for "son" is maru, while the Sumerian word for "sun" is utu.


The transliteration into English demonstrates not only that the words "sun" and "son" are not homonyms in either Hebrew or Greek (the principal languages of the original biblical texts), they could not be mistaken for one another even in ancient Sumerian.

Whoever told you that "the Son of God is a reference to the Sun" does not know what they're talking about at all.
 
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Michelle, earlier you quoted the Nicene Creed. The Council of Nicea was arranged in order to settle the controversy over the heresy of Arius, who claimed that Jesus was not eternal and was not divine (the records of the council claim that St. Nicholas, later known as Santa Claus, got up and punched Arius in the face). If you believe in the decision of the Council of Nicea, as reflected by your recitation of the Nicene Creed, then it's odd that you are siding with Arius.

Nobody in this thread has advocated Oneness theology. If somebody has, I would appreciate it if you could not only point them out, but keep your quarrelsome remarks isolated strictly to it. As it stands right now, it appears that you're just looking for an excuse to argue against Oneness (a noble enough motive), but you're not bothering to determine whether or not someone actually believes in Oneness before you rail against them. I for one do not appreciate my comments being taken out of context in order to satisfy your crusade.

Jesus is God, but God is Father, Son, and Spirit, and of course the Father is the head (otherwise Father would be an inappropriate word). Everybody who believes that should be free from your harassment, otherwise it is not goodness that you are working, but strife and contention.
 
I quoted what is found in the scriptures. There is nothing that was posted from myside that is not found in the scriptures. As far as thinking the side is for the belief that Jesus is not eternal, nor divine, proves that the posts have
not been read in the spirit they were delivered. There is nothing that was posted that was against any person themselves. No names were called, but the scriptures discussed.

If quoting and explaining scripture is harassment upon others, then it is in good company that the stand is made.
 
Jesus is not the Body of God....we are! "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

Is it really so hard to understand? Adam did not come directly from God, but the Word and breath of God did! "For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches." If Jesus was anything less than "God with us" then either we are yet in our sins, or mankind has the power and ability to save himself and should have fulfilled the law without the need of sacrifice.

Jesus did not claim to be God as if the Father dwelling in Him left heaven empty, for then who spoke from heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Hence the need to decipher the trinity: the Father unmovable from His kingdom, the Son that makes manifest the "abundance of the heart" of the Father, and the Spirit that testifies of Christ. Thus God is as a perpetual geneology (not unlike Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob from which all the people of Israel sprang forth), manifested in Christ, "the Word made flesh." Christ is no less than God even as the Spirit is no less than God. The distinction of the Father is He who preceeded all else, for even the Word and Spirit "proceeded forth and came from God." Though the Word and Spirit existed before their manifestation, it is as though within the loins of the Father. "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."

There are some slight semantics here that aren't quite right. I don't know if that's what you meant to say.
If you're going to separate Jesus and the Father, then the statement "We are the body of God" isn't really correct. We are the body of Christ. (Rom 7:4; Rom 12:5 and 1Cor 10:16 also 1Cor 12:27; Eph 5:30, etc...
 
Whoever told you that "the Son of God is a reference to the Sun" does not know what they're talking about at all.

I don't know what Tribulation is thinking, but I'm talking about God's sovereign control over all He created. The sun, in many Old testament scriptures, is a metaphorical symbol for what Jesus is to His people. I'm not talking about some pagan belief being imposed over God's ways or any such thing. God created this physical realm, and when He made the sun He did so in a very purposeful way as a symbol of what Jesus is to our world.

Psalm 19
In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,
5 which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
6 It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is hidden from its heat.


Malachi 4
2But for you who fear my name, the
sun
of righteousness shall rise with healing in its wings. You shall go out leaping like calves from the stall.

Revelation 12
A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the
sun
, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
 
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Good Lord, you people are testy. I was responding specifically to the notion that the phrase "Son of God" symbolizes sun worship; my comments were not an haphazard rant against the evil existence of the sun.
 
Yes Jesus is God.

1 Tim 3:16 proves it !

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

God bless you
 
Yes Jesus is God.

1 Tim 3:16 proves it !

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

God bless you

I could have not said it better myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If some of the Word says He is one and some says He is the other we have 2 choices:
1. Choose between the 2 and discard what doesn't fit our doctrine (like the Jehovah's Un-witnesses and other cults)
2. We can believe the whole counsel of God (His whole Word.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 
The term body of God is in reference to an earlier post which asked, " am I my body?" Implying Christ to be separate from the person of God the Father. My point was that we are the Body of Christ, who proceeded forth from the loins of the Father to be the example and head of the Body/Church. That if any were to be considered "the flesh/body of God," it would be the imperfect people called individually and collectively to be the temple of the Holy Spirit. Seeing that God "fills heaven and earth (quoted from today's verse of the day)" how could we know anything of the works of the LORD, "who humbles Himself to behold the things that are in heaven and in the earth?" For Job asks, "Oh that I knew where I might find him! that I might come even to his seat! I would order my cause before him, and fill my mouth with arguments. I would know the words which he would answer me, and understand what he would say unto me. Will he plead against me with his great power? No; but he would put strength in me. There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge. Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him..." And before he concludes, "For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me: Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me." By God calling Job perfect beforehand and afterward commending him and rebuking his friends saying, "for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.." God is endorsing the mentality of concluding that these things are imperative to a real relationship with God, and unless God was approachable and able to be seen, understood, embraced, etc. it would be impossible to walk before Him righteously. In essence Job cried out for Christ before Christ was (manifest in the flesh), and declared the very need of a mediator, messiah, savior, to be God Himself! For who is vast enough to bridge the gap between God and man...only God Himself! For what is a third of infinity? Infinity!</SPAN>
 
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