Lazarus and the Rich man...

[Sue D.]

Rhema. --. I have no problem with hard questions. It's part of doctrinal apologetics. But you tear down scripture. As well as the person presenting that which you disagree with.

I put quotes around "you white people". Because those were your words.

You said you've had conversations with a couple of moderators and I'll bet you give them a really nice conversation and then back on open forum. Well I get tired of your put downs about me and Baptists
And that Everything is a mistranslation.

 

[Sue D.]

@Rhema apparently you feel threatened by God's Word saying that there is only heaven or hell in each person's future. God's Word also tells everyone how to be able to go to heaven and stay out of hell. It's our personal choice. Shouldn't a person Want to know that and be able to make their decision that will effect their eternal future home.

 

[complete]

Which word of God, RHEMA or LOGOS ??

At this point, ma'am, you haven't truly defined what you mean by "word of God" so... one cannot honestly answer yes.


I am so tempted to say, "But she started it, Mom..." however my humour would likely be lost to the wind.

I do however, understand the point you're trying to make, and have done my utmost to try and ensure that my posts address the topics under discussion without devolving to the level of threat or insult that is so commonly found amongst such types of conversation. Nor am I here to ruffle feathers, or even call into question the salvation of others (a thing to which I've been constantly subjected here). Were I to own a forum such as this, I think the first rule I'd make and unequivocally enforce would be to forbid a member from ever questioning whether another is saved or not. (Especially calling them or their views Satanic.) I will not do this.

But I also want to mention that I'm aware that my posts may be unsettling to others. I know this. But I will always do my best to be respectful of the beliefs of others and provide sufficient reasons and facts to support my views when I disagree. @Br. Bear has been of more help to me in this regard than he will ever know.

I am very appreciative of your reminder @complete

God bless,
Rhema

Hello @Rhema,

I am glad you have responded to me.

In regard to my use of the words, 'word of God': Paul uses that phrase when referring to the message which he preached, saying in 1 Thessalonians 2:13:-
'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.' Also, the words of the Lord Jesus Christ are spoken of as, 'the word of God', as in Luke 5:1:- 'And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon Him to hear the word of God, He stood by the lake of Gennesaret,' Again, in the Lord Jesus' explanation, to His disciples, of the parable of the sower, he calls the gospel of the Kingdom which He preached, 'the word of God', as in Luke 8:11:- 'Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.' Yet again, In Acts 4:31, when those assembled in the upper room at Pentecost, were 'filled with the Spirit', ' they were said to speak, 'the word of God''.

* So, with the use of the phrase, 'word of God'', I refer to words which are 'of', or, 'proceed from', God.

Yes, I agree @Br. Bear is a very helpful, and supportive member, whom I also appreciate, Rhema. I would like to hear more from you, in order to understand where we are in agreement and where we differ in our understanding, if not in this thread, in ones to come (God willing), I believe it could be edifying for both of us.

Thank you
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Rhema]

Sorry, what is the Church of the East . What makes them different ?

Hi Garee,

The Church of the East was started by the Apostle Thomas after he traveled east to spread the Gospel into the Persian Empire, and then down the west coast of India. It's best to think of it as the Church of the Far East, but "far east" would be identifying a geographical location known today as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. The language of this Church has always been Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus and the Apostles. There would have been no reason for Thomas to start keeping copies of New Testament books in Greek or preaching in Latin, as Aramaic was the official language within the Persian Empire.

There is a LOT of history and historical context that is just not known to people here in the West. As an example:

According to Hebrew scriptures, in 539 BC, Cyrus, the Emperor of Persia, freed the Jewish people from captivity in Babylon and allowed them to return to Jerusalem. He helped them to rebuild their temple. ... Darius I (Darius the Great) (reigned 522-486 BC), a cousin of Cyrus. He ... made Aramaic the official language.​

(From) https://abclegaldocs.com/blog-Colorado-Notary/persian-empire-language-writing-and-scribes/​

This means that when the Apostle Thomas brought the Gospel into the Persian Empire, there were many Jewish enclaves that became believers, and all the gentiles could understand Aramaic, so the New Testament books were kept in Aramaic - with certain epistles of Paul, likely authored in Greek, translated into Aramaic. After the deaths of Paul and Peter and John, the elders of the Church of the East under the guidance of the Apostle Thomas then closed the canon. In the West, the canon was still in dispute until the late 390s AD.

The Peshitta is the official Bible of the Church of the East. The name Peshitta in Aramaic means "Straight", in other words, the original and pure New Testament. The Peshitta is the only authentic and pure text which contains the books in the New Testament that were written in Aramaic, the Language of Mshikha (the Messiah) and His Disciples.​

Peshitta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament

The on-line version of the Church of the East Peshitta New Testament text in Aramaic/English Interlinear Format.

www.peshitta.org

​

The Scriptures in the Church of the East, from the inception of Christianity to the present day, are in Aramaic and have never been tampered with or revised, as attested by the present Patriarch of the Church of the East. The Biblical manuscripts were carefully and zealously handed down from one generation to another and kept in the massive stone walls of the ancient churches and in caves. They were written on parchment and many of them survive to the present day. When these texts were copied by expert scribes, they were carefully examined for accuracy before they were dedicated and permitted to be read in churches. Even one missing letter would render the text void. Easterners still adhere to God's commandment not to add to or omit a word from the Scriptures. The Holy Scripture condemns any addition or subtraction or modification ...​

(From) http://truthdepot.net/content/AramaicPeshitta.pdf​

The Church of the East does not include certain spurious books found in the New Testament of the West - books that were added in by Roman Catholic Bishops after the Emperor Constantine started making changes to the Christian Church throughout the Roman Empire, starting at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Yet even then, the book of Revelation itself was rejected by many, if not most, of the Bishops of the Catholic Church. Consider the dates. By 325 AD, all the Apostles were decades dead, and so the canon of New Testament Scripture ought to have been settled years before.

In the Church of the East, the canon was closed, containing only books approved by the Apostle Thomas. In the Western Church throughout the Roman Empire, there were battles amongst Bishops as to what books should be canon or not.

So on the one hand, we have a canon established by an Apostle of Jesus. On the other hand, we have a canon established by numerous councils of squabbling Bishops who couldn't make up their minds over a 75 year period. Which process do you think would yield a "straight" and "original" "pure New Testament? Yes, the canon of the Church of the East.

Books added in by the Roman Catholic Bishops, but rejected by the Church of the East are: 2nd Peter; 2nd & 3rd John, Jude, and the book of Revelation. In addition, the story of the woman taken in adultery (see John 8) was never in this book. All these writings were penned after the Apostles passed away and were rightly rejected by the Church of the East as Pseudepigrapha.

Hope this helps to clarify things,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

But you tear down scripture.

No dear, I tear down your definition of scripture.

I put quotes around "you white people". Because those were your words.

AN ABSOLUTE LIE.

I've already told you that I went through each and every page of this thread, and I NEVER wrote the words "you white people".

So PROVE IT. If you have any shred of decency and integrity, you will find the post where I supposedly said those words and post it.

If you cannot, then the right thing to do would be to apologize to me.

Well I get tired of your put downs about me and Baptists

I do believe the aphorism is "truth hurts".

And you've posted enough "put downs" on your own.

But let's not get distracted. You claim I wrote the phrase "you white people" I did not. So yes, prove it.

Then I can address the rest.

Rhema

 

[Beetow]

.
Personally, I much prefer to be called a cracker than a white people.

Racial epithets are fun. I really miss the old days when we could pin any label we
wanted on folks; and they in turn could pin labels right back. The world is becoming
too polite, and too thin-skinned, to suit me.
_

 

[Beetow]

The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 is currently being held in a secure location awaiting
trial at the event depicted by Rev 20:11-15 where he'll be reunited with his body
along with everyone else on the wrong side of Hades-- he may have a long wait for
his trial.

According to the Census Bureau, something like 7,000 people of all ages, races,
and genders die every day in the USA.

At one time it was estimated that roughly 28% of those deaths are under the age of
19 so that we can count 5,040 of those daily deaths as responsible adults.

Jesus said that many are called and few chosen. If we reckon the many to be
somewhere around 51% then we can estimate that 2,570 of of those 5,040 join the
rich man every day of the week-- 24/7/365 --adding up to 938,050 condemned
souls in one year; and that's just from the USA; not even reckoning with rest of the
globe's population.

If we were to arbitrarily allot each trial ½ hour at Rev 20:11-15, it would take
approximately 469,025 hours to try all 938,050 of the USA souls; or 19,543
twenty-four hour days totaling 53½ years. I'm pretty sure the rich man will be
tanding in line for quite a bit longer than that when we take into consideration
the entire population of Hades going all the way back to the days of Cain and Abel.

I once commented to a Christian friend that it seems almost impossible that God
will ever get around to judging every man and woman who has ever lived. My friend
replied: Well; he has plenty of time.
_

 

[Garee]

Hi Garee,

The Church of the East was started by the Apostle Thomas after he traveled east to spread the Gospel into the Persian Empire, and then down the west coast of India. It's best to think of it as the Church of the Far East, but "far east" would be identifying a geographical location known today as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. The language of this Church has always been Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus and the Apostles. There would have been no reason for Thomas to start keeping copies of New Testament books in Greek or preaching in Latin, as Aramaic was the official language within the Persian Empire.

There is a LOT of history and historical context that is just not known to people here in the West. As an example:

According to Hebrew scriptures, in 539 BC, Cyrus, the Emperor of Persia, freed the Jewish people from captivity in Babylon and allowed them to return to Jerusalem. He helped them to rebuild their temple. ... Darius I (Darius the Great) (reigned 522-486 BC), a cousin of Cyrus. He ... made Aramaic the official language.​

(From) https://abclegaldocs.com/blog-Colorado-Notary/persian-empire-language-writing-and-scribes/​

This means that when the Apostle Thomas brought the Gospel into the Persian Empire, there were many Jewish enclaves that became believers, and all the gentiles could understand Aramaic, so the New Testament books were kept in Aramaic - with certain epistles of Paul, likely authored in Greek, translated into Aramaic. After the deaths of Paul and Peter and John, the elders of the Church of the East under the guidance of the Apostle Thomas then closed the canon. In the West, the canon was still in dispute until the late 390s AD.

The Peshitta is the official Bible of the Church of the East. The name Peshitta in Aramaic means "Straight", in other words, the original and pure New Testament. The Peshitta is the only authentic and pure text which contains the books in the New Testament that were written in Aramaic, the Language of Mshikha (the Messiah) and His Disciples.​

Peshitta Aramaic/English Interlinear New Testament

The on-line version of the Church of the East Peshitta New Testament text in Aramaic/English Interlinear Format.

www.peshitta.org

​

The Scriptures in the Church of the East, from the inception of Christianity to the present day, are in Aramaic and have never been tampered with or revised, as attested by the present Patriarch of the Church of the East. The Biblical manuscripts were carefully and zealously handed down from one generation to another and kept in the massive stone walls of the ancient churches and in caves. They were written on parchment and many of them survive to the present day. When these texts were copied by expert scribes, they were carefully examined for accuracy before they were dedicated and permitted to be read in churches. Even one missing letter would render the text void. Easterners still adhere to God's commandment not to add to or omit a word from the Scriptures. The Holy Scripture condemns any addition or subtraction or modification ...​

(From) http://truthdepot.net/content/AramaicPeshitta.pdf​

The Church of the East does not include certain spurious books found in the New Testament of the West - books that were added in by Roman Catholic Bishops after the Emperor Constantine started making changes to the Christian Church throughout the Roman Empire, starting at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. Yet even then, the book of Revelation itself was rejected by many, if not most, of the Bishops of the Catholic Church. Consider the dates. By 325 AD, all the Apostles were decades dead, and so the canon of New Testament Scripture ought to have been settled years before.

In the Church of the East, the canon was closed, containing only books approved by the Apostle Thomas. In the Western Church throughout the Roman Empire, there were battles amongst Bishops as to what books should be canon or not.

So on the one hand, we have a canon established by an Apostle of Jesus. On the other hand, we have a canon established by numerous councils of squabbling Bishops who couldn't make up their minds over a 75 year period. Which process do you think would yield a "straight" and "original" "pure New Testament? Yes, the canon of the Church of the East.

Books added in by the Roman Catholic Bishops, but rejected by the Church of the East are: 2nd Peter; 2nd & 3rd John, Jude, and the book of Revelation. In addition, the story of the woman taken in adultery (see John 8) was never in this book. All these writings were penned after the Apostles passed away and were rightly rejected by the Church of the East as Pseudepigrapha.

Hope this helps to clarify things,
Rhema

Hi thanks it clears it up perfectly and remember we are warned of those who do say we need an man to teach us making the work of the holy Spirt that works in mankind to no effect. . it began at the fall .Did God really say? We must be careful how we hear or say we do . The father of lies as the god of this world is quick to snatch the seed of light in our journey, you call it in the wilderness .

I would begin by offering the apostles are defined as “sent ones” and clearly never “venerable ones”. They have no power of their own living in a earthen body of death . They have no authority to start what you call churches .That kind of idea is found in Catholic or Greek Orthodox it began with the Jewish elders as fathers (kings in Israel) the abomination of desolation those who served the oral traditions of men, a hierarchy of men lording it over the understanding or faith of the non-venerable.

The creators of patron saints a law of men called a law of the fathers.(a law not found in the scriptures)

The word of God in all its entirety was penned as the Holy Spirit moved John on the island of Pathos and a warning was added not to add or subtract from the whole book of prophecy which was then sealed with 7 seals till the end of time . The Holy Spirit closed the canon in that way there are no laws missing by which we could know our heavenly more intimately (face to face) as his bride the church. There were many churches that did set their sights above all things written in the law and prophets. (sola scriptura) Just as today.

The Spirit of prophecy that works in all believers to both recvel the will and empowers us to obey is found in the book of prophecy .Revelation is still the last chapter . Walk by faith not after dead fathers called patron saints

Revelation 22:18-21 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Makes me wonder when the last day does comes like a thief in the night (Luke 18:8) will Christ find his faith as it is written working in the hearts of mankind? Or will experience be the new source of faith .I had a dream, I had a vision I heard another voice and the last person was given faith was resurrected in the twinkling of the eye .

The believers elect are warned before the Holy Spirit closed cannon

Matthew 24:22-25King James Version And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; in somuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

Ask oneself .Why would it be impossible to deceive the Christians or the Elect ?

 

[Bug]

One premise of Critical Race Theory is that white people have absolutely no clue when they say racist things, and that furthermore, they'll deny even the possibility that such a thing might be true. Yet it is. I see it all the time, in the same way that I've seen an arrogance within those who attend Baptists churches that I've not found to be present in other denominations. The same thing applies to cisgender people who live within their own little idea-bubble of reality and are truly unable to comprehend that other people may live within a completely different existential and biological reality.

Just ask any Pentecostal. You will find time and again, an utter dismissal of speaking in tongues by those who have had no experience of this gift whatsoever. Would you ask your doctor how to fix your car's transmission?

I think you just made my point.


And that is such an egregiously insulting thing to say, I am truly speechless.

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.​

(Luke 23:34 KJV)​

I can, though, explain myself quite succinctly. My gender has absolutely nothing to do with the contents of the posts I have made, nor should it. And I will not allow it to be used as grounds for dismissal. Either deal with the topics and concerns I've expressed or ... as you said ... bow out.


Oh no, no, no.... it's a perfect example of how emotional reactions destroy the ability to discuss things rationally. @Bug wants to shut me up, and now you want my words to be erased. And I'm to think such behaviour is Christian?


No.

It's saying that Google is NOT the God of all Truth. I now fear for all civilization when someone with as much life experience as you comes up with, "the computer told me so it must be true".

(John 11:35 KJV) Jesus wept.​

It's mistranslated.

Trust in God with all thine heart; and be not exalted in thine own wisdom.​

(Proverbs 3:5 Brenton)​

It means to not trust what you feel to be right and wrong. And sister, you've got a lot of feelings inside of you about what is right and wrong.

Rhema


(Allow me to repeat...)

What I have asked you to consider is WHO compiled those books into your Bible, telling you that these were the ones chosen by God ?? And this "who" would be the Bishops of the Catholic Church in the late 390's. What I don't understand is how one can believe that God would make sure that the Catholics would select the "right" books for the Bible, but at the same time NOT make sure that these very same Catholics would teach a true message of salvation? As if God was more interested in writing a book than in saving souls.​

wait do you believe that there is more than one gender

 

[Rhema]

wait do you believe that there is more than one gender

Yes, I absolutely believe that there is more than one gender. There are at least two.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

(Genesis 1:27 KJV)​

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The word of God in all its entirety was penned as the Holy Spirit moved John on the island of Pathos and a warning was added not to add or subtract from the whole book of prophecy which was then sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

The Apostle John was dead by the time Revelation was penned, and why would any apostle, especially John, add FEAR into his book with a warning?

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​

(1 John 4:18 KJV)​

There is no fear in love, and yet the book of Revelation wants to cause FEAR in you.

That's truly all that needs to be considered.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

on the island of Pathos

Patmos, Garee... not Pathos.

 

[Rhema]

Hello @Rhema,

I am glad you have responded to me.

Why wouldn't I ?? You're a delight to talk with.

But my wife has pointed out that it is rather late here right now, and so I'll have to postpone what I would have posted until tomorrow.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[complete]

Why wouldn't I ?? You're a delight to talk with.

But my wife has pointed out that it is rather late here right now, and so I'll have to postpone what I would have posted until tomorrow.

God bless,
Rhema

Hello @Rhema,

In reply#286 @Sue D. asked you whether you were male or female: and I can understand why she felt the need to know, for your maleness comes through in your manner and in your humour, and gives explanation for what, in a female, would be considered an aggressive response.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bug]

Hello @Rhema,

In reply#286 @Sue D. asked you whether you were male or female: and I can understand why she felt the need to know, for your maleness comes through in your manner and in your humour, and gives explanation for what, in a female, would be considered an aggressive response.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

how you act does not define your gender just saying female or males can be aggressive females can act more masculine or feminine. just saying.

 

[Garee]

Patmos, Garee... not Pathos.

Thanks.

 

[Garee]

The Apostle John was dead by the time Revelation was penned, and why would any apostle, especially John, add FEAR into his book with a warning?

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​

(1 John 4:18 KJV)​

There is no fear in love, and yet the book of Revelation wants to cause FEAR in you.

That's truly all that needs to be considered.

Rhema

Thanks for the reply

Yes there is no fear or the proper kind of fear as trust out side of God's Love .God is love and not that he can only exercise his labor of love called a work of His faith .

When a apostle dies has no bearing on the matter.

The church called the Elect were warned before hand of the perfect coming no longer knowing in part (1 Corinthians 13) The last warning is at the end of the"book of prohecy" Revelation the last chapter is still the last chapter sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

If a believer (elect) gets under the sealed authority it would be impossible for Satan who still comes with all power of lying sign to wonder after .Jesus said no sign is given, and that its a evil faithless generation that seeks after them .


Mentioning it twice a pattern of repeating a matter is used throughout the Bible used to emphasize in this case . . believe it not.

Mathew 24: 22-26 And except those days (last days from the cross) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days (last days) shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.(impossible) Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not

I would thin the question to ask one self is. Do we need more than he has revealed ?

 

[Sue D.]

The book of Revelation gives us information. Not meant to instill fear.

The book of Genesis was given to Moses through inspiration of God.
God wanted everyone to know where we came from and how we got here. We are even given the names I'd those rivers so the local people would be able to identify that region and us to know specifics which I find fascinating.

Genesis =book of beginnings.

 

[Garee]

The book of Revelation gives us information. Not meant to instill fear.

The book of Genesis was given to Moses through inspiration of God.
God wanted everyone to know where we came from and how we got here. We are even given the names I'd those rivers so the local people would be able to identify that region and us to know specifics which I find fascinating.

Genesis =book of beginnings.

Yes the foundation of the doctrines of God . . the glorious beginnings .

I would agree . Revelation like Genesis is meant to instill the proper kind of fear as trust . Revelation the signified understanding used in parable, is a summery of the whole . Thing that were, things that are, and the things to come all rolled up in the last chapter of the book of prophecy called the hidden mana in chapter 2 :17.

 

[Rhema]

Hello @Rhema,

In reply#286 @Sue D. asked you whether you were male or female: and I can understand why she felt the need to know, for your maleness comes through in your manner and in your humour, and gives explanation for what, in a female, would be considered an aggressive response.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I note that you are from the UK... women cannot have wives over there ??

Rhema