Lazarus and the Rich man...

[Christina2000]

Friends this story is not a parable. Jesus did not use names of real people in parables. We know Lazarus was a real man. This story is true. Human souls go to the 3rd heaven where heaven and hell are located. They are separated by a huge chasm type river barrier but in one area the people can see each other. The communication is telepathic. This barrier is called 'Styx'. We learn this in the Book of Enoch, who of which was Noah's grandfather, and Enoch was 7th from Adam.

And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that they who would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there.’
Luke 16:26

This was a true story and the Rich man is still burning today...

Hi,.
It is a powerful story and a great warning to all who never spare God a thought or who reject Him. It shows that once in hell, the soul is there forever.

 

[complete]

delete

 

[complete]

Hi,.
It is a powerful story and a great warning to all who never spare God a thought or who reject Him. It shows that once in hell, the soul is there forever.

Hello @Christina2000,

Are you sure about that?

 

[complete]

Hi,.
It is a powerful story and a great warning to all who never spare God a thought or who reject Him. It shows that once in hell, the soul is there forever.

Hello Christina2000,

The traditional interpretation of Hell as a place of eternal conscious punishment is not Scriptural. The dead, both the just and the unjust, will be raised for judgment (Acts 24:15) : and death and hell will be placed in the lake of fire for destruction (Revelation 20:14). So the dead do not remain in the grave (ie., Hell or the place of the dead ) for ever.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Beetow]

The pronoun "they" is a good choice for folks of unknown gender, especially the
Non Binary folk and the Questioning, viz: folks whose gender identity and/or
preference isn't always obvious.

I've been using "they" for quite a few years when speaking of someone whose
gender is uncertain, and thus far no one has complained.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Rhema - Are you a man or a woman -- should have asked you that previously.

Also it was the Roman guards who nailed Him to the cross . The people - the Jews were angry because He claimed to be equal to God. John 10:30. He's saying that I and My Father are One."

I will look into the church you mentioned.

 

[Sue D.]

Rhema. The church you mentioned does not like the book of Revelation
The church you go to church of the east ie the church of Persia does not hold the same escatogical views that Revelation holds to / teaches. That book is still there.

 

[Rhema]

@Rhema - Are you a man or a woman -- should have asked you that previously.

What does it matter ?? Are you a sexist?

Also it was the Roman guards who nailed Him to the cross .

On behalf of the Sanhedrin. At that time, the Roman Empire would not permit the Jewish people to enact capital punishment, including the stoning of others to death. Why blame the gun and not the person who pulled the gun? There was a lot of political turmoil at that time, given the abrupt execution of Sejanus. The Roman guards were just the gun. The Jews pulled the trigger.

And Peter knew it, indicting the responsible party. (Unless you think Peter was wrong? Was Peter wrong?)

The people - the Jews were angry because He claimed to be equal to God.

The Jews were angry about a lot of things, the least of which was that they believed (or rather that some of them believed that) Jesus claimed to be equal to God.

Jesus ran riot through the temple, and literally stopped all the sacrifices and offerings being made to God, over what's likely a six month period. I'm sure that caused no small amount of dispute and discord amongst the people.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Rhema. The church you mentioned does not like the book of Revelation
The church you go to church of the east ie the church of Persia does not hold the same escatogical views that Revelation holds to / teaches. That book is still there.

So now you know more about my church than I do.

What unmitigated Baptist arrogance.

Church of the East - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And no, the book of Revelation is not in our canon. The Apostle Thomas made sure to keep Roman corruption out of the canon.

Church of the East - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The New Testament of the Peshitta, which originally excluded certain disputed books (Second Epistle of Peter, Second Epistle of John, Third Epistle of John, Epistle of Jude, Book of Revelation), had become the standard by the early 5th century.​

Rhema

 

[Sue D.]

@Rhema --okay I asked whether you're a man or a woman - and that makes me a sexist!!! Oh,my lands sakes. Okay which sex do you identify with. A man or a woman. Or maybe you're a transgender.

Okay I Googled the name of your church. Found out a lot.

And since when does that qualify as unmitigated Baptist arrogance.

For some reason you feel superior because you've done your own translating.
Please quite tearing into others around here. No reason for it.

There is a standard Syriac Bible that you're referring to. The pershitta you mentioned. Picks and chooses which books to accept or reject. Doing my research.

 

[Rhema]

Okay which sex do you identify with. A man or a woman.

A sexist would ask.

Don't get your nose bent out of shape, dearie, I have no intention of walking into that trap.

Okay I Googled the name of your church. Found out a lot.

As if Google is the God of all knowledge.

And since when does that qualify as unmitigated Baptist arrogance.

Thinking you know more about my church than I do ?? Yep, that's arrogance.

For some reason you feel superior because you've done your own translating.
Please quite tearing into others around here. No reason for it.

That's not what's going on. YOU, dear Sue, are the one imputing superiority because you feel inferior. But yes, well reasoned arguments that are accurately supported by proven facts are by definition more superior to chuckle-headed opinions burped up by those who have no skills for thinking critically.

And there's the difference. I don't care one whit about how I feel. But I deeply care about whether my facts are correct and my understanding is True. You don't. Now don't deny it, because you've already posted such.

Look at all the nitwits around you who think by their feelings. And then you'll understand why the world has gone to hell in the hand basket. There are only a handful of people on this planet who can truly think well. That was (and still is) my profession - Systems Annalist (at times Intelligence Annalist); and I made a bucket load of money explaining stupidity to stupid people. I hold several degrees, among which is one in Computer Science - Artificial Instinct; and Epistemology. And if you're keeping track, my CV also includes a dual major in the aforementioned topics at Drexel University; and I was awarded an interview for a Phd candidate slot at MIT with Dr. Minsky. (I also hold a patent in office technology, but that somewhat embarrasses me because it's only one.)

That said, I will chastise if and when such is needed.

I'm not putting someone down by telling them they need to grow up, if indeed they need to grow up.

The pershitta you mentioned.

Could you at least show some slight measure of respect to get the spelling correct? Peshitta. And I'll not call your book a Bable.

Picks and chooses which books to accept or reject.

As if the entire council of RCC Bishops didn't do the exact same thing, picking and choosing which books to accept or reject.. But once more you have it wrong. The books received into canon of the Church of the East were selected (accepted) by the Apostle Thomas. God knows where your books came from.

Doing my research.

Don't quit your day job.

Rhema

 

[complete]

'Be kindly affectioned one to another
with brotherly love;
in honour preferring one another;'
Rom 12:10

Hi @Sue D & @Rhema,

The subjects we discuss have one Arbiter and that is the word of God, yes? So, we have no reason to be personal in our remarks to one another. The flesh counts for nothing, for all is of the Spirit. Paul said that he no longer knew any man according to the flesh, all was of the spirit.

We are called into fellowship with the Father and the Son by the Spirit, and our fellowship with each other is a reflection of what we have received there.

With love to you both
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

As if the entire council of RCC Bishops didn't do the exact same thing, picking and choosing which books to accept or reject.. But once more you have it wrong. The books received into canon of the Church of the East were selected (accepted) by the Apostle Thomas. God knows where your books came from.

What did develop between the eastern Orthodox with Roman Catholiscim . Two sects that served a hierarchy of venerable men that lorded it over the faith of the pew sitters or show watchers .the bible calls it the abomination of desolation .

The same principle with the Pharisees with Sadducees two sects that put aside there difference and tried to make all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) into a heresy so that they could serve their own heresy as a law of the fathers Again a hifghearchy of corrupted mankind standing in the unseen Holy place of God who is not served by human hands in any way shape or form . God is not a man

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:11How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Acts 23:7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

Again two groups of false apostles putting aside their differences to try and make all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) to no effect

Satan will not cast out Satan (a hierarchy of men) its his wile .Destroy sola scriptura the reforming master

 

[Sue D.]

@Rhema --since when is it sexist to ask if a person is male or female. Everyone is born either male or female. What kind of trap would you be walking into. And why would anyone be setting some sort of trap for you or anyone else by asking if you're a man or woman. Unless you really not sure. I'm saying that out of sincere concern.

Thank you for sharing you educational background. Very impressive. But it doesn't take the place of your heart belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins and that he was buried and that He rose again on the 3.rd day. That third day being very early in the morning the day after the Sabbath.
If I seem to know more about your church from looking it up on Google than you do. That saying something about you.too

So can we talk peaceably to each other -- maybe the moderator should just this thread down. Or I'll just bow out.

There's a verse in Proverbs 3:5 and 6. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge -Him and He will direct your paths.". And then Psalm 37: first ninr verses or so.

 

[Rhema]

The subjects we discuss have one Arbiter and that is the word of God, yes?

Which word of God, RHEMA or LOGOS ??

At this point, ma'am, you haven't truly defined what you mean by "word of God" so... one cannot honestly answer yes.

So, we have no reason to be personal in our remarks to one another.

I am so tempted to say, "But she started it, Mom..." however my humour would likely be lost to the wind.

I do however, understand the point you're trying to make, and have done my utmost to try and ensure that my posts address the topics under discussion without devolving to the level of threat or insult that is so commonly found amongst such types of conversation. Nor am I here to ruffle feathers, or even call into question the salvation of others (a thing to which I've been constantly subjected here). Were I to own a forum such as this, I think the first rule I'd make and unequivocally enforce would be to forbid a member from ever questioning whether another is saved or not. (Especially calling them or their views Satanic.) I will not do this.

But I also want to mention that I'm aware that my posts may be unsettling to others. I know this. But I will always do my best to be respectful of the beliefs of others and provide sufficient reasons and facts to support my views when I disagree. @Br. Bear has been of more help to me in this regard than he will ever know.

I am very appreciative of your reminder @complete

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

So can we talk peaceably to each other --

One premise of Critical Race Theory is that white people have absolutely no clue when they say racist things, and that furthermore, they'll deny even the possibility that such a thing might be true. Yet it is. I see it all the time, in the same way that I've seen an arrogance within those who attend Baptists churches that I've not found to be present in other denominations. The same thing applies to cisgender people who live within their own little idea-bubble of reality and are truly unable to comprehend that other people may live within a completely different existential and biological reality.

Just ask any Pentecostal. You will find time and again, an utter dismissal of speaking in tongues by those who have had no experience of this gift whatsoever. Would you ask your doctor how to fix your car's transmission?

@Rhema --since when is it sexist to ask if a person is male or female. Everyone is born either male or female.

I think you just made my point.

Unless you really not sure. I'm saying that out of sincere concern.

And that is such an egregiously insulting thing to say, I am truly speechless.

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.​

(Luke 23:34 KJV)​

I can, though, explain myself quite succinctly. My gender has absolutely nothing to do with the contents of the posts I have made, nor should it. And I will not allow it to be used as grounds for dismissal. Either deal with the topics and concerns I've expressed or ... as you said ... bow out.

-- maybe the moderator should just this thread down.

Oh no, no, no.... it's a perfect example of how emotional reactions destroy the ability to discuss things rationally. @Bug wants to shut me up, and now you want my words to be erased. And I'm to think such behaviour is Christian?

If I seem to know more about your church from looking it up on Google than you do. That saying something about you.too

No.

It's saying that Google is NOT the God of all Truth. I now fear for all civilization when someone with as much life experience as you comes up with, "the computer told me so it must be true".

(John 11:35 KJV) Jesus wept.​

There's a verse in Proverbs 3:5 and 6.

It's mistranslated.

Trust in God with all thine heart; and be not exalted in thine own wisdom.​

(Proverbs 3:5 Brenton)​

It means to not trust what you feel to be right and wrong. And sister, you've got a lot of feelings inside of you about what is right and wrong.

Rhema


(Allow me to repeat...)

What I have asked you to consider is WHO compiled those books into your Bible, telling you that these were the ones chosen by God ?? And this "who" would be the Bishops of the Catholic Church in the late 390's. What I don't understand is how one can believe that God would make sure that the Catholics would select the "right" books for the Bible, but at the same time NOT make sure that these very same Catholics would teach a true message of salvation? As if God was more interested in writing a book than in saving souls.​

 

[Rhema]

What did develop between the eastern Orthodox with Roman Catholiscim .

Garee... the Eastern Orthodox Church is NOT the Church of the East.

Rhema

(oh fur the luv of....)

 

[Sue D.]

Rhema--i will no longer even Try to interact with whomever you are. To you Every passage I bring up is a mistranslation. But the Benton translation you share says nothing. I'll stick with the Nkjv. It has some meat to it.

You brought up the critical race theory. And then commented about "you white people". Well, I'm white / çaucasion. But definitely not one of those "and proud of it" people.

I've noticed how great you sound to "complete" and totally not to others.

Personally, if I was a moderator I'd probably bann you. But since I can't I'll simply ignore this.

You also brought up the subject of salvation. It's the most portant decision a person can make. That will the difference of where a person spends eternity. Either heaven or hell. They will both last forever.

 

[Rhema]

Rhema--i will no longer even Try to interact with whomever you are.

Sue, from my perspective you never did. You've avoided each and every hard question and historical fact I posted, instead, trying to shift the focus onto what is truly identity politics (race and gender).

I get it. Hard questions make you feel uncomfortable to the point where you want to silence me. Happens all the time. People stick their fingers in their ears and go "La la la la la, I can't hear you."

It's a shame.

Personally, if I was a moderator I'd probably bann you.

I've been in discussion with two moderators about this. You can place me on ignore anytime you wish, and go have tea and crumpets with your "nice" Christians, but it still won't change the fact that your Christian walk is very insular (by your own admission).

To you Every passage I bring up is a mistranslation.

And yet you've never had the decency to ask how the passage should read, and why. But again, I get it. Most people live in abject fear of finding out that they're wrong. This all started when Martin Luther based Salvation upon being Right.

And then commented about "you white people".

Sue, please. Take a breath and STOP LYING. You put the phrase "you white people" in quotes. Yet I never wrote "you white people." That's a lie. But I get this too, you invent words to fit your narrative, trying to inflame the conversation and stir up blame. That's wrong, and you should repent. I searched all of the 15 pages in this thread, each and every one, to confirm that I never once said "you white people."

Shame on you.

It's the most important decision a person can make.

Something Jesus disagreed with ....

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.​

(John 15:16 KJV)​

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock (the revelation by the Father) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

(Matthew 16:15-18 KJV)​

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)​

(But remember, you said that Jesus did not preach a gospel unto salvation.)

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.​

(Acts 2:37-39 KJV)​

Rhema

Either heaven or hell. They will both last forever.

Why do Evangelicals always feel the need to threaten others? I've never understood that.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​

(1 John 4:18 KJV)​

 

[Garee]

Garee... the Eastern Orthodox Church is NOT the Church of the East.

Rhema

(oh fur the luv of....)

Sorry, what is the Church of the East . What makes them different ?