Mid-tribulation

[amanhumblinhart]

Brother?

I posted some thoughts on this thread back on 3/10/2012 and "brother mike" deleted my words.

why?

did they offend?

why is "brother mike" so great that he can delete what men say?

i said this:
"do not be fooled and blinded by the god of this world, daniel 9:27 is about none other than Jesus the christ of god and his work."

and here is his threat against me for posting my thoughts which were against no man but were as the holy spirit taught me.

Lots of good study had gone into this thread. I believe in Pre-trib Rapture, we will see none of the tribulation. Let the saints, and 144,000 that are here take care of things, the Gospel of Christ is not mentioned.

However, lots of hard work and scripture and serious study has gone into this thread with those that look at things different. I find it hard to believe anyone is trying to be fooled, or blinded by the god of this word.

With that said, let's keep these types of comments out of the post. I have given 2 already a month break for these types of comments. It shows lack of respect toward others that do post scriptures, and share they light they have.

Mike, what did I do my man to deserve this threat from a "brother" for what I said. What I spoke was truth and you cannot delete the truth my man!

I can get a month off for my opinion?

and you showed me NO lack of respect eh? rebuking me for teh truth i bear because you are not able to receive it?

so what? i am going to be cast out for not towing the party line? the words I speak are not worth the words others speak? what? the study that went into this is worth more than the words of truth I speak to you?

that sounds distinctly like what the pharisees said to christ!

PUT THE WORDS BACK MIKE!

 

[amanhumblinhart]

Ok

I've been on forums all over the internet and I'm getting real tired of men who think they have the right to delete what others say based on THEIR OWN thoughts!

"brother mike" is now trying to censor me and cause me to speak the way HE wants me to!

where are the words I spoke on 3/10/2012 mike?

 

[amanhumblinhart]

do you know what you have done by deleting the words I have spoken mike?

you have covered the light i have provided with a bushel!

you are loving darkness over light.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

666

I posted some thoughts on this thread back on 3/10/2012 and "brother mike" deleted my words.

why?

did they offend?

why is "brother mike" so great that he can delete what men say?

i said this:
"do not be fooled and blinded by the god of this world, daniel 9:27 is about none other than Jesus the christ of god and his work."

and here is his threat against me for posting my thoughts which were against no man but were as the holy spirit taught me.

Lots of good study had gone into this thread. I believe in Pre-trib Rapture, we will see none of the tribulation. Let the saints, and 144,000 that are here take care of things, the Gospel of Christ is not mentioned.

However, lots of hard work and scripture and serious study has gone into this thread with those that look at things different. I find it hard to believe anyone is trying to be fooled, or blinded by the god of this word.

With that said, let's keep these types of comments out of the post. I have given 2 already a month break for these types of comments. It shows lack of respect toward others that do post scriptures, and share they light they have.

Mike, what did I do my man to deserve this threat from a "brother" for what I said. What I spoke was truth and you cannot delete the truth my man!

I can get a month off for my opinion?

and you showed me NO lack of respect eh? rebuking me for teh truth i bear because you are not able to receive it?

so what? i am going to be cast out for not towing the party line? the words I speak are not worth the words others speak? what? the study that went into this is worth more than the words of truth I speak to you?

that sounds distinctly like what the pharisees said to christ!

PUT THE WORDS BACK MIKE!

Daniel 9:27 is speaking about the antichrist who will be the prince that will come from the people that destroyed Jerusalem.

 

[amanhumblinhart]

No, it isn't.

Daniel 9:27 is speaking about the antichrist who will be the prince that will come from the people that destroyed Jerusalem.

this scripture is about none other than Jesus the Christ of God and his ministry.

the sacrifices ceased before god when Christ died on the cross, it was at that point that Satan was cast out of heaven unto the earth.

since the cross, since the sacrifice which ended all sacrifices, satan has no longer power to accuse anyone before god.

please, pray for the holy spirit to teach you, go back, and diligently re-read 9:27 and you will see that the words I speak are not my own and they are truth.

Christ has a seven-year testimony to give, he gave 3.5 years of that and will complete the other 3.5 years in the two witnesses.

Christ is the one confirming the covenant with many for one week, not satan.

 

[DutchChristian]

Please know that there is only one rapture it is immediately after the dead rise first at the second coming of Christ which is AFTER the tribulation:

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Have you seen the son of perdition yet?

Mark 13:24-26
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Have we ever been in the greatest tribulation in history yet? Did you see the sun darkened and the moon, and the stars of heaven fall or know that to have ever happened before ever in history? Then how can the rapture be at any moment? That is a impossibility as the son of perdition is not revealed yet nor did the sun darken yet nor the greatest tribulation of all has come yet. And until that time there will be no rapture! So Mark 13:24-26 refutes the any moment pre-trib rapture just like that.

Matthew 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke 21:25-28
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There is only ONE TRUTH it is the word of GOD and there can never be three totally different "truths" on the rapture / the second coming as only one is the correct one! i urge you to find the Truth for yourselves in the Holy Bible the word of God, the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

this scripture is about none other than Jesus the Christ of God and his ministry.

the sacrifices ceased before god when Christ died on the cross, it was at that point that Satan was cast out of heaven unto the earth.

since the cross, since the sacrifice which ended all sacrifices, satan has no longer power to accuse anyone before god.

please, pray for the holy spirit to teach you, go back, and diligently re-read 9:27 and you will see that the words I speak are not my own and they are truth.

Christ has a seven-year testimony to give, he gave 3.5 years of that and will complete the other 3.5 years in the two witnesses.

Christ is the one confirming the covenant with many for one week, not satan.

In Daniel 9:25-26 the Messiah that was to come and be cut off was Jesus the Christ who died on the cross for our sins.

Jerusalem was destroyed by Romans in 72 AD. The prince that shall come from the Romans is the antichrist who will confirm the 7 year treaty covenant with many.

 

[David777]

Jerusalem was destroyed by Romans in 72 AD. The prince that shall come from the Romans is the antichrist who will confirm the 7 year treaty covenant with many.

Where, oh where Eric are the scriptures to support the idea that the antichrist is from Rome?

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Where, oh where Eric are the scriptures to support the idea that the antichrist is from Rome?

Hi Dave,

The prince that shall come is from the same people as the Romans that destroyed Jerusalem not from Rome.

The last days form of the revived roman empire will be a confederation of 10 nations as pictured in Daniels vision. An 11th horn or nation will arise out of those people in which the antichrist will take power. Daniel 11:39-40 says he will do his will in the most strongholds or strongest nation at the end of time.

I believe that the antichrist will come from America.

 

[David777]

Okay.

Then who is the king of the south?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Hi Dave,

The prince that shall come is from the same people as the Romans that destroyed Jerusalem not from Rome.

The last days form of the revived roman empire will be a confederation of 10 nations as pictured in Daniels vision. An 11th horn or nation will arise out of those people in which the antichrist will take power. Daniel 11:39-40 says he will do his will in the most strongholds or strongest nation at the end of time.

I believe that the antichrist will come from America.

Eric I'll bet you a Krispy Creame that the antichrist is Muslim

 

[David777]

In reply Eric.

Hello Eric, had to read Daniel so it is fresh
in my mind. I am only a novice in eschatology
so I have to go over Daniel in detail.

Stumbled upon this messianic prophecy
which I thought I might just insert into this discussion.
I love messianic prophecies, the law and the prophets
prove as far as I am concerned who Jesus is.

Daniel 7

13 “I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man (Jesus),
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days (His Father),
And they brought Him (Jesus) near before Him (His Father).

14 Then to Him (Jesus) was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him (Jesus).
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom is one
Which shall not be destroyed.

Now on with the other eschatology.

Daniel 8

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said
to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be,
concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of
desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”

14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days;
then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”

Jesus Christ cleansed the sanctuary. Amen.

It is impossible to apply this verse to physical Israel as the temple has not existed
for two thousand years. Also, virtually impossible for the temple to be rebuilt,
there is only one specific site and the Muslims own it. You want that site try and take it,
it is Islams second most important site behind Mecca.

Secondly, the Levitical priesthood is by birth, no records exist to
identify the Levites, hence it is impossible to rebulid or run the temple.
In fact it would be impossible to identify any of the tribes of Israel for
that matter. All the info is lost in the sands of time.

Now for the kings of the north and south.

Daniel 7

23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.

24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.

25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

Point form summary of the above;

1) the king is from a fourth kingdom, different
from all other kingdoms. How is it different?

2) fourth king rules the world.

3) subdues three kings.

4) has a lot to say, blah, blah, blah.

5) persecutes the saints.

6) attempts to change times and law.

7) saints are controlled by him for 3.5 years?

This is an overview thus precision is missing.
I would expect speculation to arise over these verses.

Onwards Eric, just getting an overview of the fourth king.
The king of the north, a different kingdom!

You will have to be patient with me.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Eric I'll bet you a Krispy Creame that the antichrist is Muslim

El Hombre Viejo and David777,

The Antichrist will be an ally of Israel and fight the Arabs first Daniel 11:39-43a, and the Russian alliance with the other Muslims listed in Ezekiel 38:1-12 in the second wave Daniel 11:43b
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Second Thessalonians 2:8-12 explains that everyone who hears but does not believe the truth of the gospel of Jesus before the rapture will believe the lie of Antichrist. This is because God will send them strong delusion. Therefore, God will give the Antichrist the crown of leadership in the Christian nations, as indicated in Revelation 6:2. The Antichrist will sign a treaty with many that divides the land of Israel and supposedly brings lasting peace. The Antichrist will come on a white horse as a peace enforcer when Egypt and Syria break the peace treaty as described in Daniel 11:40–43a below.
The Antichrist on the White Horse

Daniel 11:40–43 KJV

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt:

Daniel informs us that the king of the south will push at or attack the Antichrist. This represents Egypt attacking the Antichrist, who will
have divided the land. The king of Syria from north of Israel will also attack the Antichrist.
You may wonder how I concluded that Egypt and Syria will attack the Antichrist. The king of Egypt from the south and the king of Assyria from the north are first mentioned in the first half of this chapter. They will be the same countries later in the chapter, but later in time.
How can Egypt and Syria attack the Antichrist who is leading America? Are they going to “walk” over the ocean? It could be that America will enforce the peace treaty signed by many so that an attack on Israel will also be an attack on America. Another possibility could be that America will still have an army in Iraq or Afghanistan. Then the Egyptians and Syrians could march to attack the army of the Antichrist.
Why would Egypt and Syria think they would have a chance to win a fight with Israel and America? One answer is that America will be weaker after the rapture of the born-again Christians. Another explanation could be that they will expect help from Russia.
In Ezekiel 38:4, it is clear that God will turn back Magog or the Russia of the north when Russia intends to attack Israel and the Antichrist’s army. Later, God will put a hook in the jaw of Russia and cause them to advance against Israel after the Egyptians and Syrians have been destroyed. When the Egyptians and Syrians attack, the Antichrist will counterattack the Syrians and Lebanese and perhaps the Iraqis, and will then turn south and pass through Israel, the glorious land, into Egypt.

 

[David777]

Hello Eric.

I started to struggle with this statement of yours;

"Therefore, God will give the Antichrist the crown of leadership in the Christian nations, as indicated in Revelation 6:2."

Could you explain this line in more detail as I am not seeing what you are saying is contained in Rev 6:2.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

I started to struggle with this statement of yours;

"Therefore, God will give the Antichrist the crown of leadership in the Christian nations, as indicated in Revelation 6:2."

Could you explain this line in more detail as I am not seeing what you are saying is contained in Rev 6:2.

Sorry, notice that the rider on the white horse is given a crown.Rev 6:2

God will give the crown to the antichrist in the Christian nations by sending those that heard the truth of the gospel and believed not, strong delusion to believe the lie of antichrist. They will not get a second chance to believe in Christ after the rapture of the church when He that letteth or restraineth is taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12KJV

 

[David777]

Hello Eric.

Revelation 6:2

New King James Version

2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

How do you derive that the rider of the white horse is the antichrist?

Having a crown does not imply the rider is the antichrist.

Further, what is the significance of the bow?

 

[Eric E Stahl]

antichrist

Revelation 6:2

New King James Version

2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

How do you derive that the rider of the white horse is the antichrist?

Having a crown does not imply the rider is the antichrist.

Further, what is the significance of the bow?

David,

At the beginning of the tribulation God will give the crown to the antichrist in the Christians nations by causing all the people who heard the truth of the gospel but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of antichrist. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

Notice that the rider on the white horse is successful at conquering others.

The bow is a symbol of power.

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1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

PAUL INDICATES THAT sudden destruction will come upon Israel after the Antichrist signs the peace treaty with many to divide the land of Israel. The Jews will finally feel safe. When the Jews feel safe, Ezekiel 38:4 explains that God will put a hook in the jaw of Magog or Russia and draw her and the Islamic alliance to attack Israel.

Daniel 11:36–45 KJV
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt him- self, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

49 50 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt:

It is the antichrist that conquers the Arabs when they attack him and Israel his ally.

 

[David777]

In reply Eric.

Now you have added to your specification that the rider on the white horse
is the antichrist. By further revealing that the antichrist is ruling over the
Christian nations. There are no Christian nations Eric. This is what you stated below.

At the beginning of the tribulation God will give the crown to the antichrist in the
Christians nations by causing all the people who heard the truth of the gospel
but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of antichrist. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
Notice that the rider on the white horse is successful at conquering others.
The bow is a symbol of power.

Here is the text from 2 Thessalonians so that I can examine it to see if what you
state is true. I also added for verses which you neglected in your reference, (4-7).
Further I highlighted for any readers the exact verses which apply to your statements.

2 Thessalonians 2

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let,
until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with
the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After reading your statement that the AC will be the ruler of the Christian nations
and reading your source. I am compelled to ask
if the AC sits as God in the temple of God, which temple is it?

You would reply that the temple is the Roman Catholic Church.

Notice that it says (4) "that the AC opposes and exalts himself above all
that is called God or worshiped".

This AC is above what we define as God and is worshiped.

For scripture based Christians no such entity exists nor can
exist. Jesus Christ returns in blazing Glory on the clouds of heaven.
We have been specifically warned by Jesus to dismiss all messiahs after Him.

An AC could only influence the Catholic world, protestants would spot the
imitation immediately. No delusion is more powerful than the written revelation of God.

So the temple must be some other organization Eric, otherwise the world will not fall under his spell.

What other possibilities exist?

Does the World Council of Churches form a new hybrid church?

Is the use of "temple" describing all churches united or some part
of this?

I am aware that there is a great falling away from Christ before and during
the ascent of the AC. There may be more that comes to light as we progress
further on in time.

Your statements appear somewhat dubious, it is compounded by the last line.
Those who believed not the truth, the full truth is Jesus Christ Eric.
Only the true God can be worshiped by those who hold to the testimony
of the scriptures, which you are well aware of.

Further, you still not have shown just why you think the white rider is the AC.
None of your references in any way clarify your opinion.

A bow is not a symbol of power or authority.

A crown does not indicate that this rider is the AC.

Nor have you explained how the other three riders are involved in your view.

Sketchy and speculative is how I would define your eschatology Eric.

 

[brakelite]

Now you have added to your specification that the rider on the white horse
is the antichrist. By further revealing that the antichrist is ruling over the
Christian nations. There are no Christian nations Eric. This is what you stated below.

At the beginning of the tribulation God will give the crown to the antichrist in the
Christians nations by causing all the people who heard the truth of the gospel
but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of antichrist. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
Notice that the rider on the white horse is successful at conquering others.
The bow is a symbol of power.

Here is the text from 2 Thessalonians so that I can examine it to see if what you
state is true. I also added for verses which you neglected in your reference, (4-7).
Further I highlighted for any readers the exact verses which apply to your statements.

2 Thessalonians 2

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let,
until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with
the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After reading your statement that the AC will be the ruler of the Christian nations
and reading your source. I am compelled to ask
if the AC sits as God in the temple of God, which temple is it?

You would reply that the temple is the Roman Catholic Church.

Notice that it says (4) "that the AC opposes and exalts himself above all
that is called God or worshiped".

This AC is above what we define as God and is worshiped.

For scripture based Christians no such entity exists nor can
exist. Jesus Christ returns in blazing Glory on the clouds of heaven.
We have been specifically warned by Jesus to dismiss all messiahs after Him.

An AC could only influence the Catholic world, protestants would spot the
imitation immediately. No delusion is more powerful than the written revelation of God.

So the temple must be some other organization Eric, otherwise the world will not fall under his spell.

What other possibilities exist?

Does the World Council of Churches form a new hybrid church?

Is the use of "temple" describing all churches united or some part
of this?

I am aware that there is a great falling away from Christ before and during
the ascent of the AC. There may be more that comes to light as we progress
further on in time.

Your statements appear somewhat dubious, it is compounded by the last line.
Those who believed not the truth, the full truth is Jesus Christ Eric.
Only the true God can be worshiped by those who hold to the testimony
of the scriptures, which you are well aware of.

Further, you still not have shown just why you think the white rider is the AC.
None of your references in any way clarify your opinion.

A bow is not a symbol of power or authority.

A crown does not indicate that this rider is the AC.

Nor have you explained how the other three riders are involved in your view.

Sketchy and speculative is how I would define your eschatology Eric.

An alternative explanation of 2 Thess. is found here: http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/38601-were-they-right-2.html#post184283

I agree with you David, Eric's eschatology is sketchy and speculative. There are only two temples the scriptures can be referring to after 70ad; the sanctuary in heaven where clearly the only Boss is and will always be God: no pretenders to the throne there....which leaves only one alternative, the church itself. The confusion however is exacerbated by the persistent belief that the antichrist is an individual, and is yet future. It is not, and the antichrist power has been around for a very long time. It is a system, a kingdom, or nation, or combination thereof. The little horn that grows out of the fourth beast in Daniel 7 is a kingdom. No horns represented individuals.
And that little horn by the way that grew out of pagan Rome....the scriptures are clear that it is still around at the second coming. Name me one individual who was born in pagan Rome and is still alive today.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Now you have added to your specification that the rider on the white horse
is the antichrist. By further revealing that the antichrist is ruling over the
Christian nations. There are no Christian nations Eric. This is what you stated below.

At the beginning of the tribulation God will give the crown to the antichrist in the
Christians nations by causing all the people who heard the truth of the gospel
but rejected Jesus, to believe the lie of antichrist. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
Notice that the rider on the white horse is successful at conquering others.
The bow is a symbol of power.

Here is the text from 2 Thessalonians so that I can examine it to see if what you
state is true. I also added for verses which you neglected in your reference, (4-7).
Further I highlighted for any readers the exact verses which apply to your statements.

2 Thessalonians 2

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let,
until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with
the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and
signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After reading your statement that the AC will be the ruler of the Christian nations
and reading your source. I am compelled to ask
if the AC sits as God in the temple of God, which temple is it?

You would reply that the temple is the Roman Catholic Church.

Notice that it says (4) "that the AC opposes and exalts himself above all
that is called God or worshiped".

This AC is above what we define as God and is worshiped.

For scripture based Christians no such entity exists nor can
exist. Jesus Christ returns in blazing Glory on the clouds of heaven.
We have been specifically warned by Jesus to dismiss all messiahs after Him.

An AC could only influence the Catholic world, protestants would spot the
imitation immediately. No delusion is more powerful than the written revelation of God.

So the temple must be some other organization Eric, otherwise the world will not fall under his spell.

What other possibilities exist?

Does the World Council of Churches form a new hybrid church?

Is the use of "temple" describing all churches united or some part
of this?

I am aware that there is a great falling away from Christ before and during
the ascent of the AC. There may be more that comes to light as we progress
further on in time.

Your statements appear somewhat dubious, it is compounded by the last line.
Those who believed not the truth, the full truth is Jesus Christ Eric.
Only the true God can be worshiped by those who hold to the testimony
of the scriptures, which you are well aware of.

Further, you still not have shown just why you think the white rider is the AC.
None of your references in any way clarify your opinion.

A bow is not a symbol of power or authority.

A crown does not indicate that this rider is the AC.

Nor have you explained how the other three riders are involved in your view.

Sketchy and speculative is how I would define your eschatology Eric.

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Most people would call the western powers Christian nations.

The antichrist will sit in the Jewish temple that will exit in the tribulation period on half of the temple mount. See Revelation 11:1-2.

Post 145 gives the scriptures that show that it is the willful king we call the antichrist that will conquer at the beginning of the end time war Daniel 11:35-43a. It is the antichrist who will be given control in the Christian Western Powers , that comes riding the white horse conquering at the beginning of the tribulation.

The other three horses and their riders represent the conditions on earth as the end time war escalates.

All of the “Christian denominations” will believe the lie of antichrist after the catching up of the true believers, because God will send them strong delusion to believe the antichrist’s lie 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12.


When Jesus comes to redeem Israel the western Powers will still be in control of earth and they will be the adversary of Jesus.

Isaiah 59:18-20
18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from
transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

Eric E Stahl
Author