Mid-tribulation

Eric E Stahl · Feb 10, 2012

Mid point of the tribulation

The middle of the tribulation is at the end of the 6th trumpet and 2nd woe. Notice in

Rev 8:13 that the last 3 trumpets are so terrible they are called woes. In Rev 9:12

the 1st woe and 5th trumpet are past. In Revelation chapter 11 the two witnesses

that will serve for 1260 days or half of the tribulation come and after they have

finished their 1260 day testimony they are killed within an hour of the end of the

6th trumpet and second woe. The last woe is the devil being cast to the earth where

he will persecute Israel for a time, times, and half a time or 3.5 years. The 3<sup>rd</sup> woe

lasts for the last half of the time of Jacob’s Trouble which we call the Great

Tribulation.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens and ye that that dwell in them. Woe

to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you

having great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The devil is defeated by war in heaven and cast to the earth. This is what happened

to cause the Kingdoms of this world to become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his

Christ in Revelation 11:15 at the bowling of the seventh trumpet.

The Bible calls the devil being cast to the earth a woe. It is the only woe in the Bible

after the 6th Trumpet Judgment and 2nd woe. I believe the devil is the third woe and the 7<sup>th</sup> trumpet judgment on

the earth. All of the remaining vial judgments take place during the 7<sup>th</sup> trumpet

judgment. Isaiah 24:21-23 KJV indicates that the Lord will judge the host of the high

ones, which is the devil and his bad angels, He will gather them down to the earth to

be imprisoned with the kings of the earth near the time of the solar eclipse when the

sun is ashamed behind the moon that is confounded or stopped over Israel.

David777 · Feb 10, 2012

Hello all.

Who are the two witnesses in Revelations 11:3?

Have a shot at explaining who these two are.

kevinlb63 · Feb 10, 2012

Rev 11

3),4---These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the GOD of the earth.
And**** ---Rev.1:20----the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand , and the seven golden candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Note that there were two churches Christ found no fault with out of the seven mentioned in Rev.(Church of Smyrna} Rev.2:8-11,
(Chruch of Philadelphia) Rev.3:7-13! The teachings of those two are the ones that gain his favor.
the two candlesticks (Church of Smyrna} (Chruch of Philadelphia)

the two olive trees Enoch and Elijah i think this because thay never tasted death or the grave. just saying!
This is also proof that the church is not raptured before the tribulation period and will be here until after the mid tribulation period.

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

brakelite said:
Here is a link to a post on the restrainer. ...

OF COURSE they are not right! How could evil restrain evil?
No, ONLY good restrains evil. And ONLY GOD has the power
to restrain evil, because God is GOOD. ONLY GOD knows
the correct time for the man of sin to be revealed.

The truth of the restrainer is right there in 2 Thes. 2. The THEME of that passage is the "gathering" or the rapture of the 1st book of Thes.

Any other theory does not fit this theme. Did God come and "gather" the Romans or perhaps Michael? NO NO NO!!! Paul's "gathering" is the rapture of the church. THAT is what He had taught them before.

When we correctly translate apostasia as the intent of the author, "THE departing," (a VERY significant one) it must be the "gathering," else the entire passage becomes meaningless, not following the theme.

Coop

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
Rev 113),4---These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the GOD of the earth.
And**** ---Rev.1:20----the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand , and the seven golden candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Note that there were two churches Christ found no fault with out of the seven mentioned in Rev.(Church of Smyrna} Rev.2:8-11,
(Chruch of Philadelphia) Rev.3:7-13! The teachings of those two are the ones that gain his favor.
the two olive trees (Church of Smyrna} (Chruch of Philadelphia)

the two candlesticks Enoch and Elijah i think this because thay never tasted death or the grave. just saying!
This is also proof that the church is not raptured before the tribulation period and will be here until after the mid tribulation period.

HOW is this proof? Please explain your thinking!

Coop

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> The middle of the tribulation is at the end of the 6th trumpet and 2nd woe. Notice in

Rev 8:13 that the last 3 trumpets are so terrible they are called woes. In Rev 9:12 the 1st woe and 5th trumpet are past. In Revelation chapter 11 the two witnesses that will serve for 1260 days or half of the tribulation come and after they have finished their 1260 day testimony they are killed within an hour of the end of the 6th trumpet and second woe. The last woe is the devil being cast to the earth where he will persecute Israel for a time, times, and half a time or 3.5 years. The 3<sup>rd</sup> woe lasts for the last half of the time of Jacob’s Trouble which we call the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens and ye that that dwell in them. Woe

to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you

having great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The devil is defeated by war in heaven and cast to the earth. This is what happened

to cause the Kingdoms of this world to become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his

Christ in Revelation 11:15 at the bowling of the seventh trumpet.

The Bible calls the devil being cast to the earth a woe. It is the only woe in the Bible

after the 6<sup>th</sup> woe. I believe the devil is the third woe and the 7<sup>th</sup> trumpet judgment on

the earth. All of the remaining vial judgments take place during the 7<sup>th</sup> trumpet

judgment. Isaiah 24:21-23 KJV indicates that the Lord will judge the host of the high

ones, which is the devil and his bad angels, He will gather them down to the earth to

be imprisoned with the kings of the earth near the time of the solar eclipse when the

sun is ashamed behind the moon that is confounded or stopped over Israel.

One day while reading Daniel 9, verse 27, when my eyes and my mind got to the word "midst," the word of the Lord came to me and I heard these words: "You could find that exact midpoint, clearly marked in the book of Revelation."

I was dumbfounded, as always when God speaks to me like that - but my spirit man immediately ask, "how would I find that?" That is when He told me that each mention of the 3 1/2 year period of time are a HINT to the exact midpoint, each being of an event that would begin at the midpoint and go to the end.

I went immediately to chapters 11 - 13, where these five mentions are found, and spent perhaps two months there before I found what He sent me to find.

Here is a HINT to understand John's chronology: today we have lovely punctuation marks such as ([{ }]) that John never had. We can write something [it could be about anything ] and insert an parenthesis and it is instantly apparent where it is. If one were to remove a parenthesis, the writing would still make sense. When something is written in chronological order, such as history, a parenthesis would have NO relationship to the chronology what so ever. It could be a note about something far back in history to the time being written about, or far future.

Now, let me give an example. Look at 12:6

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30898">6</sup>And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

There are TWO hints here to where John is in his narrative: first the 1260 days shows us that John is within 24 hours of the exact midpoint. But if we remember Jesus admonition that when those in Judea SEE the abomination, they are to FLEE instantly; no time to get a coat or anything else, just RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. Therefore, we can know that 12:6 is only SECONDS after the abomination.

In fact, the 7th trumpet is sounded in heaven at the very same moment the abomination takes place on earth, MARKING the exact midpoint. So from 11:15 (the 7th trumpet) to 12:6, only one or two seconds have passed.

But what will we do with 12:1-5? What is that all about? It is written as a PARENTHESIS with no bearing whatsoever on chronology.

When God sent me to study chapter 12, this is what He said: "This chapter is Me revealing the dragon to John, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing in the second half of the week." Then He told me to count how many times the dragon, including pronouns, was mentioned. If I remember correctly, it was 32 times. I could easily believe this chapter was all about the dragon. But He went on: "I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born."

So the first five verses of chapter 12 are a "history lesson" to John, pointing back to the time Jesus was born. They are written as a parenthesis and not related AT ALL to John's chronology.

So the 7th trumpet sounds in 11:15, and a few seconds later the woman begins to flee as seen in 12:6.

In 11:1-2, John is BEFORE the abomination in his narrative. He is explaining how the BEAST and his armies move to Jerusalem. They will be trampling the city for 42 months. From this we know that John is a week or two before the abomination. It may not be accurate to the very day, but is certainly accurate to the month.

In 11:3, the two witnesses suddenly show up. The arrive on the earth EXACTLY 3 1/2 days before the abomination.

But 11:4 through 11:13, are written AS A PARENTHESIS with no bearing at all on chronology! It is a RABBIT TRAIL or SIDE JOURNEY down the last half of the week ONLY with the two witnesses. In other words, those verses are a PARALLEL of the 42 months in verse 2, and a PARALLEL of the 1260 days of fleeing in 12:6 and a PARALLEL of the time, times and half of time in 12:14, and a PARALLEL of the 42 months of authority given to the Beast in 13:5.

I have never heard ANYONE that thinks the 42 months of trampling is fulfilled in 11:2, and 11:3 is then 42 months later.

I have never heard ANYONE say that 12:7 is 1260 days AFTER 11:6.

Do you get my point? In four of the five mentions of the 3 1/2 years, NO ONE believes that time is fulfilled in the verse of mention. So WHY would one take the 1260 days of the two witnesses and think it is fulfilled right there in chapter 11? NO NO NO!!! The lifeline of the two witnesses is a SIDE JOURNEY down a parallel path. When God INTRODUCED John to the two witnesses - at the moment they show up - He CHOSE to show John their full 1260 days right there, AS A PARENTHESIS! You see, they will be testifying all through chapters 12-16! They will be killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial is poured out. They will be testifying while the woman is fleeing, and while the city is being trampled, and while the woman is being fed and protected, and while the Beast is using his months of authority. These are ALL PARALLELS of the same three and one half years.

Readers, if you don't understand 11:4-13 as a parenthesis, you will NEVER understand John's chronology!

In chapter 9:19-21, the 2nd woe is complete, but John is busy writing of other things and don't really STATE THAT FACT until 11:14. Yes, CERTAINLY the 2nd woe is finished at 11:14, but that is just stating the fact, not telling us exactly when it was finished. It was finished when the 6th trumpet judgment was finished. But John dropped the chronology of the trumpets and went into an "intermission" starting in chapter 10. He "opens the curtain" of the intermission for one second for the sounding of the 7th trumpet, then closes it again quickly, and is right back in "intermission."

There are SO MANY things happening right at the midpoint, John cannot write of them all at once, but must take them one at a time. It takes him all the way to chapter 14 to finish the midpoint events. Finally in chapter 15, the curtains open, the intermission is over, and John can get on with the realtime events of the vials.

"they are killed within an hour of the end of the 6th trumpet and second woe."

Sorry, this is doing a great disservice to John's great book. It has not even one word of truth. The 6th trumpet blew and then QUIT BLOWING in verse 13. It is the SIGNAL for the events assigned to that trumpet to begin. The events of the 6th trumpet ENDS with chapter 9, and John CHANGES THE SUBJECT! When we get to chapter 11, the 6th trumpet and associated events are HISTORY.

"All of the remaining vial judgments take place during the 7<sup>th</sup> trumpet"

Sorry, but this is MYTH. The 7th trumpet sounds and QUITS SOUNDING in 11:15. Then the events associated with that trumpet begin. When John gets to chapter 11, the EVENTS of the 7th trumpet are FINISHED. Perhaps we could say it this way:the 7th trumpet is the KEY that unlocks the door that allows Michael to go to war with the devil, that allows all that follows, including the vials to be poured out.

I agree with your take on the third woe.

Coop

Eric E Stahl · Feb 10, 2012

Time line for the Abomination of Desolation

To lecoop and all,

Daniel 12:11 KJV indicates that the abomination of desolation will happen 30

days before the mid point of the tribulation and 1290 days before the

end of the tribulation.

kevinlb63 · Feb 10, 2012

proof of what?

my thinking is i need to read the bible for myself and so do you. dont belive what i say belive in gods word read about the churches in Rev:
read about the candlesticks in Rev:
your problem is you just want give up your pre trib rapture.
i use the word of god not my words in luke mark matthew 1thessilonians and second thessilonians and rev: the word a.f.t.e.r is used over and over. if jesus says he is coming after! that is what he means.... here! i will give you something to look at and read right out of the kjv!

1 thessalonians chapter 3:1 to 8
1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear!!, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God,
and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ!, to establish! you, and to comfort you concerning your faith!!:
3 That {{no man should be moved by these {{afflictions}}: for {{yourselves}} know that we! are!{appointed there unto!}.
4 For {{verily}}, when we were with you, we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}}; even as it
{{came! to pass!!}}, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your {{faith}},
lest! by some means the {{tempter have tempted}} you, and our labour be in {{vain}}!!!.
6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity,
and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
7 Therefore, brethren, {{we were comforted}} over you in all our {{{affliction and distress}}} by your faith:
8 For now we live!, {{if ye stand fast in the Lord}}.

AS WE ARE NOT OPPOINTED TO WRATH !!!!! WHAT! PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE WRATH IT! IS TALKING ABOUT
IS THE WRATH OF GOD!!!! JESUS SAID WE WOULD SUFFER TRIBULATIONS JUST LIKE THE MESSAGE ABOVE!!AND BELOW!!!
wich is the wrath of the devil !
EVEN WE WHO LOVE CHRIST WILL BE PERSICUTED AFFLICTED AND SUFFER TRIBULATIONS.
MATTHEW 24:29 Immediately { after} the(( tribulation)) of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And{ then} shall appear the sign of the {Son of man in heaven}:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
MARK 13:24 But in those days, {after} the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory}}.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

I THESSALONIANS 3:4 For {{verily}}, when we were {{with you}},
we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are {asleep}.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
note! the 7th trump is the trump of god!!

II THESSALONIANS 2:[3] Let no{{ man}} deceive you by any means:
for that day shall {{{not come}},
except there come a falling away first,
and that {{{man of sin be revealed}},
the {{{son of perdition}}};
[4] Who {opposeth} and {exalteth} himself above all that is called {God},
or that is worshipped; so that he {as God}
{sitteth in the temple of God}
{shewing himself that he is{ God}.
MY FREINDS SITTING IN THE TEMPLE AND SHOWING HIMSELF
THAT HE IS GOD.. MEANS HE IS IN POWER!!!! AND THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! IT IS NOT MY WORDS!!!
AND AFTER MEANS AFTER / AFTER AFERT AFTER
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?

II THESSALONIANS 2:9] Even{ him,} {jesus}
whose coming is{ after } a.f. t. e. r. the working of {Satan}
luke 21 1 thru 36
1 And he looked up, and saw the {{{rich men casting their gifts into the treasury}}}.
2 And he saw also a certain {{poor widow casting in thither two mites}}.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, {{that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all }}:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God:
but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come,
in which there shall not be left one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?
and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name,
saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, {{be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass}};
{{but the end is not by and by}}.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall {{ lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues},and into prisons}},
{{ being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake}}}.
13 {{{And it shall turn to you for a testimony}}}.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts,{{{ not to meditate before what ye shall answer}}:
15 {{{ For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist }}}.
16 {{{ And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends }}};
{and some of you shall they cause to be put to death}}.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 {And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies},
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh!!!.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are{ written may be fulfilled}}.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck,
in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people
24 {{And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations}}:
{{and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled}}.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's {hearts failing them for fear}}, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:
for the powers of {{heaven shall be shaken}}.
27 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory}}}.
28 And when these things begin to {{{come to pass}}}, {{then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh}}}.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the {{fig tree, and {{{all the trees}}};
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand}}}.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, {{till all be fulfilled}}.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting,
and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
To lecoop and all,

Daniel 12:11 KJV indicates that the abomination of desolation will happen 30

days before the mid point of the tribulation and 1290 days before the

end of the tribulation.

Readers: this is in ERROR.

Eric, you are not understanding Daniel. The 70th week is 7 years. It is 84 months. It is 2520 days. This is written to stone, so to speak and CANNOT and WILL NOT be altered. Therefore, other theories of the last half being 1290 days, or your theory above, is simply not true.

Please note, when we use English, we say, FROM this point TO this point will be _______. For example, FROM where I live TO Dallas Texas is about 400 miles.

Now notice this verse:

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22093">11</sup>And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
What is the 1290 days? What is Daniel's meaning? Where or what is the TO?

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22083">1</sup>And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

WHAT time? The time is the sounding of the 7th trumpet. That is when Michael goes to WAR with the dragon. It is at the exact midpoint of the week.

(As a side note, John twice uses 1260 days as the time of the last half. God's math is perfect: the first half will be 1260 days also. Therefore, the abomination that divides the week into two halves will be EXACTLY between: 1260 days before and 1260 days after. I will allow some time in the 48 hours in the middle. It will probably be daytime in Jerusalem.)

Note the comparison of the trouble here, compared to how Jesus described the days of GT: the description is very similar. So Daniel is at the MIDPOINT of the week in 12:1

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22084">2</sup>And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jesus said "I will raise them up on the last day." (John 6) He was referring, NOT to the dead in Christ, but to the OLD TESTAMENT saints that rise up at the 7th vial, which will be poured out during the finaly 24 hours of the 70th week. So in 12:2 Daniel is on the final day of the 70th week.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22088">6</sup>And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Note, STILL talking about the 70th week: FROM the exact midpoint (12:1) TO the END or the last 24 hours of the week.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22089">7</sup>And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So there it is, written in stone, so to speak: the last half of the week is 3 1/2 years. John also gives us the last half of the week FIVE MORE TIMES:

1) 42 monthes (Rev 11:2)
2) 1260 days (Rev 11:3)
3) 1260 days (Rev 12:6)
4) time, times, and half of time (Rev 12:14) (if memory is right)
5) 42 months (Rev. 13:5)

How many more times do we need to see this to know?

Daniel 9 tells us the abomination will be at the "midst." This comes from a Hebrew root word that means to divide in half. God does NOT have sloppy math! This should be proven by the two 1260 days written about. God is going to be accurate to the very day" the abomination will be 1260 days from the 7th seal, and 1260 days from the 7th vial.

Now back to the question: what is the 1290 days? Actually Daniel does not give us the TO nor what event that is referring to. But we can be SURE, it is not to the end of the week. It is to some event AFTER the week has finished.

I do have a guess. It is only a guess. Could the marriage and marriage supper that begins AFTER the 7th vial, take an extra 30 days, so that Jesus comes on the white horse on the 1290th day?

OR could this day be the day Jesus is anointed?
Or is this the day the temple is cleansed?

Who knows? John did not tell us. But what we DO know,
it is certainly to be used to reposition the abomination AGAINST other scriptures.

Coop

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
proof of what?

my thinking is i need to read the bible for myself and so do you. dont belive what i say belive in gods word read about the churches in Rev:
read about the candlesticks in Rev:
your problem is you just want give up your pre trib rapture.
i use the word of god not my words in luke mark matthew 1thessilonians and second thessilonians and rev: the word a.f.t.e.r is used over and over. if jesus says he is coming after! that is what he means.... here! i will give you something to look at and read right out of the kjv!

1 thessalonians chapter 3:1 to 8
1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear!!, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God,
and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ!, to establish! you, and to comfort you concerning your faith!!:
3 That {{no man should be moved by these {{afflictions}}: for {{yourselves}} know that we! are!{appointed there unto!}.
4 For {{verily}}, when we were with you, we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}}; even as it
{{came! to pass!!}}, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your {{faith}},
lest! by some means the {{tempter have tempted}} you, and our labour be in {{vain}}!!!.
6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity,
and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
7 Therefore, brethren, {{we were comforted}} over you in all our {{{affliction and distress}}} by your faith:
8 For now we live!, {{if ye stand fast in the Lord}}.

AS WE ARE NOT OPPOINTED TO WRATH !!!!! WHAT! PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE WRATH IT! IS TALKING ABOUT
IS THE WRATH OF GOD!!!! JESUS SAID WE WOULD SUFFER TRIBULATIONS JUST LIKE THE MESSAGE ABOVE!!AND BELOW!!!
wich is the wrath of the devil !
EVEN WE WHO LOVE CHRIST WILL BE PERSICUTED AFFLICTED AND SUFFER TRIBULATIONS.
MATTHEW 24:29 Immediately { after} the(( tribulation)) of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And{ then} shall appear the sign of the {Son of man in heaven}:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
MARK 13:24 But in those days, {after} the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory}}.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

I THESSALONIANS 3:4 For {{verily}}, when we were {{with you}},
we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are {asleep}.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
note! the 7th trump is the trump of god!!

II THESSALONIANS 2:[3] Let no{{ man}} deceive you by any means:
for that day shall {{{not come}},
except there come a falling away first,
and that {{{man of sin be revealed}},
the {{{son of perdition}}};
[4] Who {opposeth} and {exalteth} himself above all that is called {God},
or that is worshipped; so that he {as God}
{sitteth in the temple of God}
{shewing himself that he is{ God}.
MY FREINDS SITTING IN THE TEMPLE AND SHOWING HIMSELF
THAT HE IS GOD.. MEANS HE IS IN POWER!!!! AND THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! IT IS NOT MY WORDS!!!
AND AFTER MEANS AFTER / AFTER AFERT AFTER
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?

II THESSALONIANS 2:9] Even{ him,} {jesus}
whose coming is{ after } a.f. t. e. r. the working of {Satan}
luke 21 1 thru 36
1 And he looked up, and saw the {{{rich men casting their gifts into the treasury}}}.
2 And he saw also a certain {{poor widow casting in thither two mites}}.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, {{that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all }}:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God:
but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come,
in which there shall not be left one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?
and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name,
saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, {{be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass}};
{{but the end is not by and by}}.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall {{ lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues},and into prisons}},
{{ being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake}}}.
13 {{{And it shall turn to you for a testimony}}}.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts,{{{ not to meditate before what ye shall answer}}:
15 {{{ For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist }}}.
16 {{{ And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends }}};
{and some of you shall they cause to be put to death}}.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 {And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies},
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh!!!.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are{ written may be fulfilled}}.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck,
in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people
24 {{And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations}}:
{{and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled}}.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's {hearts failing them for fear}}, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:
for the powers of {{heaven shall be shaken}}.
27 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory}}}.
28 And when these things begin to {{{come to pass}}}, {{then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh}}}.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the {{fig tree, and {{{all the trees}}};
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand}}}.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, {{till all be fulfilled}}.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting,
and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man

Kevin!! Much of this you wrote previously. It was WRONG then and it is WRONG now.

I wrote that I BELIEVE in the word "after!" And Paul made it clear the the REVEALING of the man of sin would come AFTER the apostasia.

But if you UNDERSTAND this passage, the THEME is the gathering. Do a word study on apostasia: it is made up of two Greek words, the first being "apo." Study what that means. The the second work is where we get our word "stationary" from, as in a stationary engine. It is "standing in one place, NOT moving." So putting the two words together, one is REMOVED from the place of standing. AT least one Greek expert has said this most definitely could mean a "spacial" movement of a part of a group to a different location. Paul is telling us PLAINLY that the man of sin will be revealed AFTER the departure (a group moved from one place to another) of the church, or the GATHERING.

AND OF COURSE Jesus comes "after" the entire 70th week, as shown in His coming in Rev. 19. There can be NO DOUBT of this coming, because JOhn shows is CLEARLY in Rev. 19 and Jesus shows us CLEARLY in Mat. 24.

I am not arguing at all about this coming. But it is NOT the coming of 1 Thes. 4:17. The moment anyone tries to make these two comings one and the same, they have gone into ERROR. These two comings are separated by at least 7 years. The moment anyone tries to make the gathering in Mat. 24 the same gathering as Paul's rapture, they have gone into ERROR. They are not the same.

"AS WE ARE NOT OPPOINTED TO WRATH !!!!! WHAT! PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE WRATH IT! IS TALKING ABOUT
IS THE WRATH OF GOD!!!! JESUS SAID WE WOULD SUFFER TRIBULATIONS JUST LIKE THE MESSAGE ABOVE!!AND BELOW!!!
wich is the wrath of the devil !"

Sorry Kevin, but this quote shows your lack of understanding of Revelation. WHERE does the devil's wrath begin in Revelation? Where does John TELL us of the third woe? Of course in Rev. 12. This goes perfectly with what Jesus told us, that when those living in Judea see the abomination, they are to RUN FOR THEIR LIVES. There will be no time to get anything. So Satan's wrath will begin around the midpoint of the week; actually just after. But the effects of his wrath will INCREASE GREATLY after the image and mark are established.

Now, where does John mention the "Day of His wrath" meaning, of course, GOD's wrath? It is mentioned at the end of chapter 6. So God's wrath will begin at least 3 1/2 years BEFORE Satan's wrath. When will God's wrath end? We see Him very much still angry at the battle of Armageddon.

Therefore, we see that one CANNOT separate these two wraths, because they will be running AT THE SAME TIME. Furthermore, if God wishes for us to ESCAPE His wrath, and He most surely does, they we must be taken out BEFORE the 7th seal. Did you just happen to notice the huge crowd John saw around the throne in chapter 7?

Therefore, God has done EXACTLY what He has promised: the BRIDE of Christ will be removed to escape those things coming, BEFORE the 70th week begins, for the ENTIRE 70th week is His wrath.

Coop

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
proof of what?

my thinking is i need to read the bible for myself and so do you. dont belive what i say belive in gods word read about the churches in Rev:
read about the candlesticks in Rev:
your problem is you just want give up your pre trib rapture.
i use the word of god not my words in luke mark matthew 1thessilonians and second thessilonians and rev: the word a.f.t.e.r is used over and over. if jesus says he is coming after! that is what he means.... here! i will give you something to look at and read right out of the kjv!

1 thessalonians chapter 3:1 to 8
1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear!!, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;
2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God,
and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ!, to establish! you, and to comfort you concerning your faith!!:
3 That {{no man should be moved by these {{afflictions}}: for {{yourselves}} know that we! are!{appointed there unto!}.
4 For {{verily}}, when we were with you, we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}}; even as it
{{came! to pass!!}}, and ye know.
5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your {{faith}},
lest! by some means the {{tempter have tempted}} you, and our labour be in {{vain}}!!!.
6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity,
and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
7 Therefore, brethren, {{we were comforted}} over you in all our {{{affliction and distress}}} by your faith:
8 For now we live!, {{if ye stand fast in the Lord}}.

AS WE ARE NOT OPPOINTED TO WRATH !!!!! WHAT! PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THE WRATH IT! IS TALKING ABOUT
IS THE WRATH OF GOD!!!! JESUS SAID WE WOULD SUFFER TRIBULATIONS JUST LIKE THE MESSAGE ABOVE!!AND BELOW!!!
wich is the wrath of the devil !
EVEN WE WHO LOVE CHRIST WILL BE PERSICUTED AFFLICTED AND SUFFER TRIBULATIONS.
MATTHEW 24:29 Immediately { after} the(( tribulation)) of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And{ then} shall appear the sign of the {Son of man in heaven}:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
MARK 13:24 But in those days, {after} the tribulation, the sun shall be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory}}.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

I THESSALONIANS 3:4 For {{verily}}, when we were {{with you}},
we told you before!! that {{we should suffer tribulation!!}};

I thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we {which are alive and remain} unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are {asleep}.
:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the {{trump of God}} and the dead in Christ shall rise {first}:
:17 Then we which are {{alive and remain}} shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
note! the 7th trump is the trump of god!!

II THESSALONIANS 2:[3] Let no{{ man}} deceive you by any means:
for that day shall {{{not come}},
except there come a falling away first,
and that {{{man of sin be revealed}},
the {{{son of perdition}}};
[4] Who {opposeth} and {exalteth} himself above all that is called {God},
or that is worshipped; so that he {as God}
{sitteth in the temple of God}
{shewing himself that he is{ God}.
MY FREINDS SITTING IN THE TEMPLE AND SHOWING HIMSELF
THAT HE IS GOD.. MEANS HE IS IN POWER!!!! AND THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! IT IS NOT MY WORDS!!!
AND AFTER MEANS AFTER / AFTER AFERT AFTER
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you,
I told you these things?

II THESSALONIANS 2:9] Even{ him,} {jesus}
whose coming is{ after } a.f. t. e. r. the working of {Satan}
luke 21 1 thru 36
1 And he looked up, and saw the {{{rich men casting their gifts into the treasury}}}.
2 And he saw also a certain {{poor widow casting in thither two mites}}.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, {{that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all }}:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God:
but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come,
in which there shall not be left one stone upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?
and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name,
saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, {{be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass}};
{{but the end is not by and by}}.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;
and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall {{ lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues},and into prisons}},
{{ being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake}}}.
13 {{{And it shall turn to you for a testimony}}}.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts,{{{ not to meditate before what ye shall answer}}:
15 {{{ For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist }}}.
16 {{{ And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends }}};
{and some of you shall they cause to be put to death}}.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 {And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies},
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh!!!.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are{ written may be fulfilled}}.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck,
in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people
24 {{And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations}}:
{{and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled}}.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's {hearts failing them for fear}}, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth:
for the powers of {{heaven shall be shaken}}.
27 And then shall they see the {{Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory}}}.
28 And when these things begin to {{{come to pass}}}, {{then look up, and lift up your heads;
for your redemption draweth nigh}}}.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the {{fig tree, and {{{all the trees}}};
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand}}}.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, {{till all be fulfilled}}.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting,
and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,
that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man

Readers, there are TWO TIMES the prophecy of the Sun turning dark and the moon turning to blood is given. And there is ONE time the sun is dark and the moon is not seen. Please note, they are NOT all speaking of the same time and same event.

Joel 2
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-22343">31</sup>The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, beforethe great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Rev 6
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30806">12</sup>And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

These two scriptures are speaking of the VERY SAME event.

Matt. 24:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-23987">29</sup> Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, ...

This is NOT the same as the two above. All kinds of ERROR has come because people think this verse is happening at the same time the above two is. BOOKS have been written and thousands deceived by "prewrath" doctrine. It is ERROR. In Matt. 24, Jesus was very clear, these signs come AFTER the tribulation. In Revelation that MUST BE after the 7th vial that ENDS the 70th week. Van Kampen and Rosenthal had some good points, but their main theory was totally wrong.

The signs in the sun and moon shown in Matt. 24, will come about 7 years plus AFTER (Kevin's favorite word) the signs seen at the 6th seal. John did not see these signs and so did not write them. If they were written, they would have been in Rev. 19, just after the "tribulation."

For a very clear picture of BOTH of these signs, from the same author, Joel shows us BOTH. The signs before the Day of the Lord are written in chapter 2, and the signs AFTER the tribulation and just before He comes, is written in chapter 3. God and study to show yourself approved.

Coop

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

kevinlb63 said:
Rev 113),4---These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the GOD of the earth.
And**** ---Rev.1:20----the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand , and the seven golden candlesticks.
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Note that there were two churches Christ found no fault with out of the seven mentioned in Rev.(Church of Smyrna} Rev.2:8-11,
(Chruch of Philadelphia) Rev.3:7-13! The teachings of those two are the ones that gain his favor.
the two candlesticks (Church of Smyrna} (Chruch of Philadelphia)

the two olive trees Enoch and Elijah i think this because thay never tasted death or the grave. just saying!
This is also proof that the church is not raptured before the tribulation period and will be here until after the mid tribulation period.

Enoch and Elijah is as good a guess as any. I am convinced they are Old Testament saints.

Coop

Fraction · Feb 10, 2012

lecoop said:
When God sent me to study chapter 12, this is what He said: "This chapter is Me revealing the dragon to John, and in particular, what the dragon would be doing in the second half of the week." Then He told me to count how many times the dragon, including pronouns, was mentioned. If I remember correctly, it was 32 times. I could easily believe this chapter was all about the dragon. But He went on: "I also chose to show John what the dragon did when I was born."

God told you there would be a dragon?

David777 · Feb 10, 2012

Hello Kevinlb63.

Who were the two witnesses in Revelations 11:3?

Yes Kevin,

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before
the GOD of the earth. (Revelations 11:4)

They are dressed in sackcloth, Kevin.

They are witnesses and they are mourning.

They utter prophecies, in other words God is speaking through them Kevin.
They are in mourning.

Now read the following,

(Deuteronomy 17:6) Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death
on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death
on the testimony of one witness.

The two witnesses arrive before the terrible wrath of God.

They proclaim the sentence of death upon mankind by God.

They are two olive trees Kevin, do you know who the olive trees are?

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

Fraction said:
God told you there would be a dragon?

Did John write about a dragon in Rev. 12, or NOT?

Coop

Eric E Stahl · Feb 10, 2012

Time line for the Abomination of Desolation

<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; color

urple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <sup>11</sup>And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

lecoop said "What is the 1290 days? What is Daniel's meaning? Where or what is the TO?"

The “to” is the end of time or the end of the time of Jacob's trouble,

or the end of the tribulation.

I know this messes up some of your understanding but it is true.

Daniel 12:11 KJV indicates that the abomination of desolation will

happen 30 days before the mid point of the tribulation and 1290 days

before the end of the tribulation.

God is giving the Jews a 30 day head start to flee for safety before

the devil is cast to the earth at the middle of the tribulation when the

7th trumpet judgment begins. This is described in Revelation 12:7-14

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> <sup>11</sup>And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

lecoop said "What is the 1290 days? What is Daniel's meaning? Where or what is the TO?"

The “to” is the end of time or the end of the time of Jacob's trouble,

or the end of the tribulation.

I know this messes up some of your understanding but it is true.

Daniel 12:11 KJV indicates that the abomination of desolation will

happen 30 days before the mid point of the tribulation and 1290 days

before the end of the tribulation.

God is giving the Jews a 30 day head start to flee for safety before

the devil is cast to the earth at the middle of the tribulation when the

7th trumpet judgment begins. This is described in Revelation 12:7-14

I guess you did not bother to read what I wrote.
Your understanding and mine are FAR different.
Your understanding and what is written is FAR different.

God has given us 8 proofs that the second half of the week will be exactly 3 1/2 years, or 42 months or 1260 days. I know this is not what you believe, but it is EXACTLY what God believes.

Do you suppose God does not know the difference between 3 1/2 years that equals 1260 days, and 3 1/2 years that is 30 days MORE than 1260 days?

Sorry, NO 30 day head start! How funny! Jesus said they would not even have time to stop by the house and get a coat. Now you are giving them 30 days?

You do realize that just 4 verses before your 30 extra days verse, God says the last half will be time, times and half of time? Again, do you suppose God cannot tell the difference of an extra 90 days? Or do you suppose His timing is that sloppy?

You do know that Daniel's prophecy of the 69 weeks of years, or 173,880 days, came out EXACTLY to the day, the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem and presented Himself as the passover lamb? Therefore, I am quite sure God's 3 1/2 years will be VERY exact.

Coop

Eric E Stahl · Feb 10, 2012

Time line for the Abomination of Desolation

<style>  </style> To lecoop,

I believe the last half of the tribulation is 1260 days.

Daniel 12:11 indicates that the abomination of desolation happens 30

days before the last 1260 days of the Great Tribulation starts.

Is that more clear?

kevinlb63 · Feb 10, 2012

i am going to save this post you dont believe in gods word at all every thing that you read was out of the bible and you just said the word of god was wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lecoop · Feb 10, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> To lecoop,

I believe the last half of the tribulation is 1260 days.

Daniel 12:11 indicates that the abomination of desolation happens 30

days before the last 1260 days of the Great Tribulation starts.

Is that more clear?

It may appear that is what Daniel says, but it really isn't. God is FAR better than we are at math. If I divide 2520 days (the full 70th week) into two halves, I get 1260 days on each side. And that is exactly what John shows us five different times.

The angel had just confirmed to Daniel in verse 12:7 that to the end of "these wonders" would be time, times, and half of time - exactly the same time John tells us five different times.

Therefore, I am convinced Daniel is telling us that the 1290 day count is NOT to the "end of these wonders" but to SOME OTHER event.

You see, I cannot put MORE WEIGHT on one verse than I can on 7 other verses that all give us 3 1/2 years in three different ways.

Verse 12 is another hint that Daniel is thinking of another event AFTER the end of the week. What do you make of the 1335 days? The way this is written, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days," tells me John is counting from the exact midpoint, the 1260<-*->1260 point, PAST the end at 1260 days, and on another 75 days to some event.

This seems a VERY GOOD hint that we should do the same with the 1290 days. However, this is really a minor point. I don't plan on being around here then.

Coop

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