And the same applies to you because you too can also misguide people by what YOU say! Do you think that everything you believe is correct and that you are NOT making any assumptions? Most people have enough discernment to decipher things for themselves. There is no danger whether one believes God will re-create this earth or whether he makes a new one. It doesn't shake ones faith one way or another. It's only logical that God continually makes new earths. For me, the passage I quoted in Ecclesiastes proves it.
NEW HEAVEN/NEW EARTH - THE ETERNAL HOME OF EVERY SAVED BELIEVER IN CHRIST JESUS
- Thread starter Brother-Paul
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There are many verses that say the current earth will be destroyed.
Some people think the New Jerusalem will be a rectangular piece of ground somehow suspended in space somewhere. I find that illogical. I tend to lean toward the idea that God creates a new earth for the new Jerusalem.
Revelation 21:10 -27 describes the New Jerusalem -- since Jesus Christ will rapture born-again believers up and out in a twinkling of an eye -- He could do the same thing -- it might be another twinkling of an eye for the old earth to become the New earth.
Hekuran
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Digging in to the location and size and location of the New Jerusalem may cause us to miss the main point - Jerusalem is the dwelling place of God and the seat of the king of Israel. God will be with us and reign over us forever.
Read the descriptions of Jerusalem asking yourself - what kind of king and what kind of kingdom is this?
You should find that the meaning of crystal rivers and healing trees etc fit into place more naturally
Read the descriptions of Jerusalem asking yourself - what kind of king and what kind of kingdom is this?
You should find that the meaning of crystal rivers and healing trees etc fit into place more naturally
Brother-Paul
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Greetings @saginon
We all make mistakes at time my friend, I have, and have been the first to put my hand up and admit it. You have only been on the forum a short while, had you been on longer you would have known this.
There are, and will be, times when we may not get something quite right, understandably with scripture, sometimes an item may appear to say one thing but when considered with other scriptures proves not to be the case, or even together may not totally answer what we think or thought.
Talk Jesus is a wonderful forum and has been truly blessed, there are a lot of born again members with years of scriptural study and knowledge, no one must ever thing their assumption of scripture is correct and must be open to other members comments regarding scripture at all times.
When you come to the forum, as a born again believer, you are coming to the Church, every day you come here and join with other born again believers, you are joining with the Church, the body of Christ. Yes it is true also there are many who come here who are not saved, but those who are saved are part of the ekklesia, the True Church.
The Church, the ekklesia meets here every day and for many hours ever day, to God be the Glory. The forum isn't the church, as the building for worship isn't the church. The church is saved believers, the Body of Christ, living spiritual stones, when we come to the forum, we join with other saved believers, we are the church, when two or three come together, Jesus says, I am in the midst of you. Accepting this we should do everything in Love and aim to bring Glory to God through Jesus Christ our precious Lord and Saviour.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
This scripture is for the church, for us all, you, me, every member, every saved believer. If I comment on scripture and my comments are incorrect, I accept the scriptural comments made by another believer that correct me, and I do so humbly. That is expected of us all.
It is together as the body of Christ, that we truly learn scripture, always being open to learn more, being built up in knowledge and Truth together, not just by teaching and training in righteousness, but by also being open to correction and if necessary rebuke. It is always better to discuss and correct before rebuke, although scripture above confirms in the opposite order here, the reason it is better is because we are to do all thing in Love, for the Lord and for one another.
Bless you
Brother-Paul
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So true brother.
We should and will no doubt look first at the Throne of Grace, the Gory of God and the Light of Christ shining forth from them 24 hours a day (in the New Jerusalem).
The King of Kings, the Lord or Lords is there in all His Glory. Be still and know - Such Love - Amazing Grace - Lord the Light of your Love is shining - our hearts will sing His Praises for ever more.
As we look down in awe at the feet of our Lord, we will see the glistening, pure water of the crystal river, only one river in the New Jerusalem, the trees either side of the crystal river, pure and life giving water feeds the trees of life, with fruits every month of the year, feeding also the leaves which are for the healing of the nations.
Why would the nations need healing if everything is made new?
The New Heaven and New Earth that the New Jerusalem came down onto.
Brother-Paul
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It is a very good point sister, which brings additional thoughts for consideration, I think.
Regarding Saved Believers and how we fit into the various stages scripture quotes.
We know at the Rapture we will meet with the Lord in the air and will be with Him in the Current Heaven, we will be at that time spirits and souls, our body went back to the earth.
Questions for discussion - based on Saved Believers - Spirit and Soul or Glorious Bodies.
By asking the question please do not think I know the answers, far from it, it is for us as the church, saved believers to discuss what scripture says or appears to refer to.
As saved believers we all look forward to our Eternal Home, but need to understand why so many end up following satan towards the end of the Millennium period.
If we belong to Christ he will let no one, especially the devil, take us from His hand.
1 - Who will return with the Lord in Glory when He returns to defeat the devil?
2 - Who will come to the New Heaven / New Earth in the New Jerusalem, the Holy City?
3 - Who will be on the New Earth during the 1000 year Millennium period?
By on the New earth this could be in the New Jerusalem or out onto the New Earth.
This is where I used, the term falling away, if the only ones on the New Earth are saved believers, why do so many follow the devil at the end of this period?
4 - Who are the ones who will follow satan when he is released for a short period?
5 - Who therefore will be with the Lord forever in the Eternal Home?
6- At what stage do we get our Glorious bodies?
There are a few things I leave out here, certainly for the time being, one being at what stage are we to join the Lord for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
There is a lot to consider, but instead of looking at the New Jerusalem on the New Earth linking God to Man, Heaven with Earth and what man will do on the New Earth and in The New Jerusalem, let us take a look first at the stages for Saved believers and the Martyrs and see how they fit into scripture in the stages from now, from the Rapture, from Christ's Return, through the Millennium Period to the Final Eternal Home.
The topic gets more interesting every day.
Please include scripture to confirm your thoughts and please include which Bible version you quote from so we can all read and cross reference as necessary.
Blessings
I often read replies from several forums when I research something. That's a good way to get opposing views from different angles. We will all make mistakes in our understanding of God and His Word, and most of those misunderstandings do not result in any more than - a misunderstanding. I have no problem admitting mistakes. I like to change my mind and move from error to truth. My dad who was banned here because of a heated Trinitarian debate, who has lost his faith and is gradually being restored, often quoted a Chinese proverb that says, "from error to error we discover truth." We occasionally butt heads when it comes to religion, but as I study the bible, I find myself changing my mind in the direction of his beliefs more than sticking to my own.
That's true and that's what often makes the bible appear contradictory, so we must apply logic and common sense when that kind of issue arises. What I do when I can't arrive at a conclusion is I leave the issue open to interpretation until I hopefully do understand it.
There are a lot of good people here, more than any forum I know. Most other forums are full of bad people. Some of them were good years ago but what happens is one by one un-Christlike mean people come in and one by one the good well behaved posters leave. Most Christian forums are a bad place. This one is the best.
Most Christians believe they already have the truth and argue incessantly to support their beliefs. It's rare to find one who does change their mind.
I agree -
God less.
Brother-Paul
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That is a good way @saginon but always remember on here you can always ask, there will always be someone can correctly guide you.
I am sure those who run this forum will be very pleased with your kind comments.
A bad apple can always end up in the basket my friend, share with Love.
I wouldn't say most Christians, but you are right a lot do, thinking you know more than others is dangerous, do everything in Love for the Lord, and by humble when you are wrong. People, our brothers and sisters think more of you if you do.
Bless you, enjoy the forum, remember saved believers come together as the church, together we are the Body of Christ, post in peace and love.
Jesus loves you, we do too.
Most Christians understand the rapture occurring in the twinkling of an eye "as all at once," when it actually means "in a split second."
Brother-Paul
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THIS IS THE LATEST UPDATE OF THE STAGES (IT IS STILL SUBJECT TO CHANGE)
As we study together and share other scriptures, it is still possible this list can change, it is very similar to B-A-C list, so we do seem to be singing off the same hymn sheet, so to speak. Please do confirm, with scripture and with your reasons if you think any of the items below are not in the correct order.
These will see the 1000 years with Christ ( Rev 20:6 ) And they (the beheaded martyrs) lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Who will be on earth, will they have spiritual bodies or glorious bodies?
Will it just be our Lord and those who were beheaded in the Great Tribulation Period, plus the Remnant?
Remnant see Romans 11:5 & 11:17
The Apostle Paul picks up this theme in the New Testament, when he says,
“Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace” ( Rom 11:5 )
Paul is referring to Jewish believers in Jesus—Jewish people who received grace and salvation through faith in the Messiah. Paul was part of that remnant.
Later in same chapter Paul points out that God has taken people from among the nations and grafted them into the rich root of the olive tree
( Rom 11:17-21 ) And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
In other words, God has established a much broader remnant, those who are elect from every tribe and tongue and nation, called to be His people.
This therefore seems that today’s remnant is made up of Jews and Gentiles who are saved and set apart for God’s purposes.
9 THE FINAL REBELLION OF SATAN ( Rev 20:7-10; ) which definitely happens after the Millennial reign.
( Rev 20:7-10 ) Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
10. THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT( Rev 20:11-15; ) Judgement Day of all none believers
( Rev 20:11-15 ) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
11a THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH which is apparently after the Millennial reign.
( Rev 21:1-8 ) Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Does this mean, as it seems to say, the 1000 year Millennium Period will only have Jesus and those who were beheaded and martyred during the Great Tribulation Period (possible all the seven years of the Tribulation period). Along with the Remnant of Jews and Gentiles left at the end of the Tribulation Periods.
If that is the case, this could be why there is a period of peace, under Christ's Rule, for the 1000 years but at the end when satan is released many will follow him. This was what I was referring to much earlier as the falling away, the best example I could come up with at the time.
All those who died in Christ and those Raptured remain in the Current Heaven until the end of the Millenium Period when the New Jerusalem, Zion, The Church comes down onto the New Earth. Just a thought as we try to put get a better picture from scripture???
11b THE NEW JERUSALEM ( Rev 21:9-Rev 22:5; ) comes down from the Current Heaven, onto the New Earth, connecting Heaven and Earth once more.
The New Jerusalem, Zion, The Church comes down to the New Earth
Saved believers whose name is in Book of Life and The Lamb, get their Glorious bodies?
12. THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB ( Rev 19:6-10; )
( Rev 19:6-9 ) And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' "And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."
THEN COMETH THE END
( 1 Cor 15:24-28 )
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
As we study together and share other scriptures, it is still possible this list can change, it is very similar to B-A-C list, so we do seem to be singing off the same hymn sheet, so to speak. Please do confirm, with scripture and with your reasons if you think any of the items below are not in the correct order.
- 1 - THE TRIBULATION PERIOD - for 3 1/2 years. ( Rev 7-10 )
- Current Heaven includes – God, Jesus, 24 elders, 4 living creatures, arch angels, angels, seraphim, cherabim,
- Plus the Spirit & Soul of those who have been Saved and have died including those Martyred.
- Earth includes – saved and lost souls, in a sinful world, under the curse
- 2 - THE RAPTURE (assumed timing is before Great Tribulation Period?)
- The Saved believers whose names are in the Book of Life and the Lamb meet with the Lord in the air and go to the 'Current Heaven.'
- ( 1 Thess 4:14-18 )
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words. - ( 1 Cor 15:51-52 )
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. - ( Rev 11:15-17 )
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,
saying: ……………………………………………
- 3 - THE ‘GREAT’ TRIBULATION for another 3 1/2 years. ( Last half of Rev 11, Rev 15-16 )
- 4 - THE TWO WITNESSES ( Rev 11:1-14; )
- 5 - THE ‘BEAST’ will rise in power. ( Rev 13, Rev 17 )
- The "mark of the beast" will be implemented. ( some of this is mixed with Daniel 10-12 )
- 6 - THE FALL OF BABYLON ( Rev 18 ) The term Babylon seems to be symbolic of the non-Christian "world-kingdom".
- Rejoicing at the Judgement and Fall of Babylon ( Rev 19:1-9 )
- John saw the thrones and those who were sat on them – Judgement was committed to them ( Rev 20:4 )
- ( Rev 20:4-6 ) And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
- Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
- But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
- 7 - THE HEAVENS OPENED - THE RIDER ON THE WHITE HORSE COMES ( Rev 19:11-21; )
- Who is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
- He captures the beast and the false prophet who are thrown live into the Lake of Fire.
- Will the Church and Martyrs be with Him or does the Church come down later on the New Earth?
These will see the 1000 years with Christ ( Rev 20:6 ) And they (the beheaded martyrs) lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Who will be on earth, will they have spiritual bodies or glorious bodies?
Will it just be our Lord and those who were beheaded in the Great Tribulation Period, plus the Remnant?
Remnant see Romans 11:5 & 11:17
The Apostle Paul picks up this theme in the New Testament, when he says,
“Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace” ( Rom 11:5 )
Paul is referring to Jewish believers in Jesus—Jewish people who received grace and salvation through faith in the Messiah. Paul was part of that remnant.
Later in same chapter Paul points out that God has taken people from among the nations and grafted them into the rich root of the olive tree
( Rom 11:17-21 ) And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
In other words, God has established a much broader remnant, those who are elect from every tribe and tongue and nation, called to be His people.
This therefore seems that today’s remnant is made up of Jews and Gentiles who are saved and set apart for God’s purposes.
9 THE FINAL REBELLION OF SATAN ( Rev 20:7-10; ) which definitely happens after the Millennial reign.
( Rev 20:7-10 ) Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
10. THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT( Rev 20:11-15; ) Judgement Day of all none believers
( Rev 20:11-15 ) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
11a THE NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH which is apparently after the Millennial reign.
( Rev 21:1-8 ) Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Does this mean, as it seems to say, the 1000 year Millennium Period will only have Jesus and those who were beheaded and martyred during the Great Tribulation Period (possible all the seven years of the Tribulation period). Along with the Remnant of Jews and Gentiles left at the end of the Tribulation Periods.
If that is the case, this could be why there is a period of peace, under Christ's Rule, for the 1000 years but at the end when satan is released many will follow him. This was what I was referring to much earlier as the falling away, the best example I could come up with at the time.
All those who died in Christ and those Raptured remain in the Current Heaven until the end of the Millenium Period when the New Jerusalem, Zion, The Church comes down onto the New Earth. Just a thought as we try to put get a better picture from scripture???
11b THE NEW JERUSALEM ( Rev 21:9-Rev 22:5; ) comes down from the Current Heaven, onto the New Earth, connecting Heaven and Earth once more.
The New Jerusalem, Zion, The Church comes down to the New Earth
Saved believers whose name is in Book of Life and The Lamb, get their Glorious bodies?
12. THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB ( Rev 19:6-10; )
( Rev 19:6-9 ) And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' "And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."
THEN COMETH THE END
( 1 Cor 15:24-28 )
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
It doesn't. Why would the Lord kill innocent people in the gathering? 'All at once' is what most pre-tribers believe, and that's why many of the props and pictures they use show planes, trains, and automobiles crashing killing innocent people as the spirits of the elect are seen rising heavenward. That makes God look sloppy as though He committed a terror attack rather than a compassionate act of kindness. The Lord can remove all of His elect in a matter hours without planes, trains, and automobiles crashing - or causing any type of accident. The elect are removed in a split second - just not all together or all at once.
@Brother-Paul --- the tribulation period -- according to Daniel 9 , there's a final 7 yr segment of time coming up -- vs 27 divides that week (7 yrs.) into two segments 3 1/2 yrs each. the 2nd 3 1/2 yrs is when the Great Tribulation takes place. The Antichrist comes into power.
The 1,000 yr reign of Christ here on earth. Since believers had already been raptured up -- only the non saved people will be here those next 7 years. That's when the non-believing Jews will have another chance to accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. that one passage in Revelation says that multitudes will be saved from all over the world during those 7 yrs.
All those who Do survive those 7 horrible years Will be alive for the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. And satan will be chained and unable to influence anyone on earth. That period of time will be unlike anything we've ever experienced. People from the Old Testament Before the flood were living almost 1,000 yrs. Adam I'm thinking lived 960 or so years. Several men lived into their 900's. I'm kind of wondering if the same is going to be taking place during the coming 1,000 yr reign of Christ. But we Do know that the earths' population is going to be replenished. And it has been commented that in That period of time in history , we won't be able to use the excuse that "the devil made me do it" cause he's not going to be able to influence us. And then it will become apparent that our natural hearts Are sinful.
Rev. 20: 7 - 9 That's interesting -- satan will be released and free to create havoc again. Which he does. And, in spite of everything -- large numbers of people Do - again follow satan -- there is the final battle -- the believers are surrounded in the beloved city. When it seems that satan has actually Won -- God breathes fire down from heaven and devours the enemy. And Then every one is cast into lake of fire and brimstone -- satan joins those who are already there -- the beast and the false prophet.
And Then the great white throne.
The 1,000 yr reign of Christ here on earth. Since believers had already been raptured up -- only the non saved people will be here those next 7 years. That's when the non-believing Jews will have another chance to accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. that one passage in Revelation says that multitudes will be saved from all over the world during those 7 yrs.
All those who Do survive those 7 horrible years Will be alive for the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. And satan will be chained and unable to influence anyone on earth. That period of time will be unlike anything we've ever experienced. People from the Old Testament Before the flood were living almost 1,000 yrs. Adam I'm thinking lived 960 or so years. Several men lived into their 900's. I'm kind of wondering if the same is going to be taking place during the coming 1,000 yr reign of Christ. But we Do know that the earths' population is going to be replenished. And it has been commented that in That period of time in history , we won't be able to use the excuse that "the devil made me do it" cause he's not going to be able to influence us. And then it will become apparent that our natural hearts Are sinful.
Rev. 20: 7 - 9 That's interesting -- satan will be released and free to create havoc again. Which he does. And, in spite of everything -- large numbers of people Do - again follow satan -- there is the final battle -- the believers are surrounded in the beloved city. When it seems that satan has actually Won -- God breathes fire down from heaven and devours the enemy. And Then every one is cast into lake of fire and brimstone -- satan joins those who are already there -- the beast and the false prophet.
And Then the great white throne.
I'm not convinced of a 7 year tribulation - maybe! I think that from the 7th Trumpet on there could be as little of 45 days left - NO MORE DELAY! Here's a few things that I've put together to show my differences of opinion...
1. There will NOT be a one world government coming in the last days.
2. There will NOT be a one world religion united by the Pope , or any other worldwide unification of world religions in the last days.
3. There will NOT be a pre-trib rapture.
4. There will NOT be a 7 year covenant brokered by the anti-Christ between Israel and the world in the last days.
5. There will NOT be a Temple rebuilt in the last days.
6. Rome and the EU will have nothing to do with the last days.
7. America is NOT Babylon the Great.
8. The ***** of Babylon has nothing to do with Rome and is not APOSTATE CHRISTIANITY.
9. The APOSTASY of 2 Thes. 2 has nothing to do with Christian's or the Church.
10. The anti-Christ is NOT a Roman or European, he is an Assyrian.
11. The mark of the beast is NOT an implanted chip. It is the Islamic zebiba.
12. The bible, the book of Daniel, or the book of Revelation is NOT the "Sweet Little Book" John consumed. It is the Koran.
13. The beast of Rev. 17 is NOT a progression of world Empires. It is a complete end-time entity.
14. The beast of Revelation 13 is also a complete end-time entity.
15. The fourth kingdom of Daniel 2 is NOT Rome, it is the Grecian Empire.
1. There will NOT be a one world government coming in the last days.
2. There will NOT be a one world religion united by the Pope , or any other worldwide unification of world religions in the last days.
3. There will NOT be a pre-trib rapture.
4. There will NOT be a 7 year covenant brokered by the anti-Christ between Israel and the world in the last days.
5. There will NOT be a Temple rebuilt in the last days.
6. Rome and the EU will have nothing to do with the last days.
7. America is NOT Babylon the Great.
8. The ***** of Babylon has nothing to do with Rome and is not APOSTATE CHRISTIANITY.
9. The APOSTASY of 2 Thes. 2 has nothing to do with Christian's or the Church.
10. The anti-Christ is NOT a Roman or European, he is an Assyrian.
11. The mark of the beast is NOT an implanted chip. It is the Islamic zebiba.
12. The bible, the book of Daniel, or the book of Revelation is NOT the "Sweet Little Book" John consumed. It is the Koran.
13. The beast of Rev. 17 is NOT a progression of world Empires. It is a complete end-time entity.
14. The beast of Revelation 13 is also a complete end-time entity.
15. The fourth kingdom of Daniel 2 is NOT Rome, it is the Grecian Empire.
I'm a pre-tribber because I don't believe that the Church will have to go through those next 7 yrs. All born-again believers Will be taken up -- in the twinkling of an eye. God Is going to rescue all born-again believers From the wrath that Will be coming. So --yes -- there Will be believers who are driving cars, flying planes, etc and there Will be chaos for those still on earth. Those 'innocent' people have rejected Christ. They aren't all mass murderers but they Have already heard and have rejected. No, God is Not looking like a sloppy person. After all -- He has given us His Word which has been telling mankind / us / about salvation for thousands of years. What have 'we' personally done with it? Accepted or rejected Him. So - 'we' are not spiritually innocent. Now -- there Will be those left behind who are too young To understand and make a decision. Those people / kids Will still have a chance to accept Jesus Christ, but it will be harder for them. But will be possible.
We simply don't like the idea of a Surprise coming -- We want to be prepared -- plenty of time to Not be in the sky or on a free way and be in an accident. Well -- we have 'time' NOW.
Remember -- the people on earth while Noah was building his ark -- God told him what to do -- and people had advanced warning -- a Lot of it -- did That prevent them from being drowned? It Could have but , no, because even with Warning, they didn't believe. And, as a result, they did Not get on that ark.
A 'split second' Does equal 'all at once'.
Brother-Paul
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I am closing for tonight UK
We cannot know for sure, but like you I cannot see the Lord putting us through those things that are prophesied in that period. But I do wonder we may have to go through the first 3.5 years.
God lifted Noah and his family out before the flood, I am sure that is why we believe He will lift us out also. The Great tribulation is far worse than the Tribulation
Bless you
We cannot know for sure, but like you I cannot see the Lord putting us through those things that are prophesied in that period. But I do wonder we may have to go through the first 3.5 years.
God lifted Noah and his family out before the flood, I am sure that is why we believe He will lift us out also. The Great tribulation is far worse than the Tribulation
Bless you
saginon -- I hope you won't be too disappointed if , as a believer, you Do get raptured up with the rest of us Before the 7 yrs. begins. So -- what do You do with the passage in Daniel 9 : 24 and following.
Scripture Does tell us that everyone Will be required to accept the mark of the beast = 666 either on their hand or their forehead -- in order to get any kind of supplies / food, work, much of anything. And Scripture Also tells us that any believer who takes it Will receive the wrath of God.
In response to this and your previous reply...
Say for example uncle louis is taking his 17 year old daughter, his 18 year old niece, niece, and his 20 year old nephew to the fair. The only Christian in the car is uncle Louis. The rapture happens, uncle Louis is raptured, and the car plummets off a cliff killing his daughter, niece, and nephew. Do you think uncle Louis wife, and his niece and nephew's parents would have a favorable opinion of God since He was ultimately responsible for their death?
In the twinkling of an eye does NOT mean all at once!
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