NEW HEAVEN/NEW EARTH - THE ETERNAL HOME OF EVERY SAVED BELIEVER IN CHRIST JESUS

[saginon]

saginon -- I hope you won't be too disappointed if , as a believer, you Do get raptured up with the rest of us Before the 7 yrs. begins. So -- what do You do with the passage in Daniel 9 : 24 and following.

Scripture Does tell us that everyone Will be required to accept the mark of the beast = 666 either on their hand or their forehead -- in order to get any kind of supplies / food, work, much of anything. And Scripture Also tells us that any believer who takes it Will receive the wrath of God.

I will not get raptured and neither will anyone else before the tribulation regardless of how long it is.

Daniel 9 was fulfilled at the cross. I don't accept Daniel's 70th week.

Everyone will not be required to accept the mark of the beast. The mark is limited to and within the ten nation empire of the beast.

This is the mark...
zebiba
My dad's website which is in the process of coming down has a picture on the second line.

 

[Sue D.]

Oh, really, you Don't accept part of God's inspired word?! What Else do you choose to Not accept.

I just clicked into the 'zebiba' -- doesn't have anything to do with Revelation info as to what the 666 is about.

I'll let someone else get in on this conversation.

 

[saginon]

Oh, really, you Don't accept part of God's inspired word?! What Else do you choose to Not accept.

I just clicked into the 'zebiba' -- doesn't have anything to do with Revelation info as to what the 666 is about.

I'll let someone else get in on this conversation. :smile:

I don't accept much that is taught - or has been taught - about the end times. I simply don't believe the mark - or the kingdom of the anti-Christ is a worldwide one. 666 is imposed by the two horned beast which is commonly believed to be the false prophet, and I agree with that.

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

The word 'LIKE' means...like, similar, resembling. It's a religion similar to Christianity, which Islam is a prefect counterfeit of.

Islam is the most counterfeit religion in the world compared to Christianity.

It has a false god named Allah. A false prophet named Muhammad who Muslims believe is, "the prophet like unto Moses." A false returning jesus called, "the Muslim jesus." A false book called the Koran and the hadith. A false returning messiah called the Mahdi. A coming anti-Christ called the dajjal, and a false prophetic scenario very similar to Christianity's with 'jesus' also returning only to be the Mahdi's subordinate and help him convert the planet to Islam. Welcome to Babylon the Great! And to think. ISIS believes that Jesus will return to help them defeat the dajjal who is the Islamic antichrist!

Islam is the only world religion that could easily impose this mark in a short amount of time.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Can we return to topic and look at the stages mentioned in post #92.

Let us consider the stages already confirmed by scripture and whether there are other scripture verses to consider which may change the order of the current list.

Also let us consider within these stages the position of the believer with regards to, earthly body as now, spirit and soul in the current heaven, at what stage we receive our glorious bodies. The stages and events affects the possible decision of our bodily status, but hopefully seeing the stages more clearly will help us better consider the.

In His Love

 

[saginon]

Can we return to topic and look at the stages mentioned in post #92.

Let us consider the stages already confirmed by scripture and whether there are other scripture verses to consider which may change the order of the current list.

Also let us consider within these stages the position of the believer with regards to, earthly body as now, spirit and soul in the current heaven, at what stage we receive our glorious bodies. The stages and events affects the possible decision of our bodily status, but hopefully seeing the stages more clearly will help us better consider the.

In His Love

Why suggest going back to topic - then suggest going back to 'stages' in post 92 when that post is also off topic and the one that led to my reply in post 96! That post, as well as Sue D's post is the reason for the # 96 reply! Every time someone leads the thread OFF TOPIC, after I reply, someone tries to shut down the discussion. Just about everything I covered in my short # 96, you mentioned in your long diversional post 92! B-A-C did the same thing. He even went as far as saying lets get back on topic and then divert it elsewhere!

 

[Dave M]

\

hese will see the 1000 years with Christ ( Rev 20:6 ) And they (the beheaded martyrs) lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Who will be on earth, will they have spiritual bodies or glorious bodies?

Will it just be our Lord and those who were beheaded in the Great Tribulation Period, plus the Remnant?

this is a great question and one that has puzzled me. I am sure we will have glorified bodies on earth during the thousand years, but there will also be people with out glorified bodies natural bodies that will die and they will be the one the devil deceives and brings against the saints who have glorified bodies.

I think all the saints will have glorified bodies and serve with Christ not just the beheaded ones that came out of tribulation,

got to get ready for work, hopefully remember to add scripture this afternoon to back up my thoughts.

would love to here what @Sue D. has to say about these questions

 

[saginon]

\



this is a great question and one that has puzzled me. I am sure we will have glorified bodies on earth during the thousand years, but there will also be people with out glorified bodies natural bodies that will die and they will be the one the devil deceives and brings against the saints who have glorified bodies.

I think all the saints will have glorified bodies and serve with Christ not just the beheaded ones that came out of tribulation,

got to get ready for work, hopefully remember to add scripture this afternoon to back up my thoughts.

would love to here what @Sue D. has to say about these questions

The reason for "the separation of the sheep and goats" is to determine who enters the Millennium. Many associate IT with the rapture, but the sheep and goats judgment is the one that determines who enters the 1,000 years in their natural bodies. A remnant of Israel will also enter the Millennial kingdom, and all those who do enter will serve Christ AND Israel during it. So that is my answer to the pre-trib question, "who will enter the Millennium?" I'm not convinced - not sure - that resurrected/raptured believers enter the Millennium. I can't say I've studied it enough to make that determination.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Why suggest going back to topic - then suggest going back to 'stages' in post 92 when that post is also off topic and the one that led to my reply in post 96! That post, as well as Sue D's post is the reason for the # 96 reply! Every time someone leads the thread OFF TOPIC, after I reply, someone tries to shut down the discussion. Just about everything I covered in my short # 96, you mentioned in your long diversional post 92! B-A-C did the same thing. He even went as far as saying lets get back on topic and then divert it elsewhere!

Greetings @saginon

My comment were...

Can we return to topic and look at the stages mentioned in post #92.

The Topic, as we know, is the Eternal Home of saved believers, but with the Millennium period and the Rapture being raised and discussed, we have widened the study to include these as they are important stages leading up to the New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem coming down onto the New Earth, and where we fit into these stages, according to scripture, from saved believers, to Spirits in the Current Heaven, to the point we come from Heaven and receive our Glorious bodies.

The scripture quoted so far, and included in post #92, is very clear for us all to see, so what we are looking at at this stage in the study is
- are the stages mentioned in post #92 in the right order? (other scripture verses may mean these need to change slightly)
- where do the stages of Saved believers fit in the the order of events listed in post #92? (again everything we consider has to be as quoted in scripture)

Your comments are import to the group brother, but can you include scripture to back up your comments each time as others are doing.

Everything we are studying here is based on scripture, all considerations to what fits in at what stage are all based on scripture. Without scripture confirming our reasons they cannot be considered.

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

1 Corinthians 15:52

When the dead are resurrected, those of us who are still living will be transformed - in a twinkling of an eye.

And no doubt creation will be transformed and renewed at the same time.

Thank you @Hekuran

We are transformed at the Rapture but not into glorious bodies at this stage, we are transformed into spiritual bodies and will be with the Lord in the Current Heaven.

We will also be transformed at the end of time into our Glorious bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

[saginon]

Greetings @saginon

My comment were...

Can we return to topic and look at the stages mentioned in post #92.

The Topic, as we know, is the Eternal Home of saved believers, but with the Millennium period and the Rapture being raised and discussed, we have widened the study to include these as they are important stages leading up to the New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem coming down onto the New Earth, and where we fit into these stages, according to scripture, from saved believers, to Spirits in the Current Heaven, to the point we come from Heaven and receive our Glorious bodies.

The scripture quoted so far, and included in post #92, is very clear for us all to see, so what we are looking at at this stage in the study is
- are the stages mentioned in post #92 in the right order? (other scripture verses may mean these need to change slightly)
- where do the stages of Saved believers fit in the the order of events listed in post #92? (again everything we consider has to be as quoted in scripture)

Your comments are import to the group brother, but can you include scripture to back up your comments each time as others are doing.

Everything we are studying here is based on scripture, all considerations to what fits in at what stage are all based on scripture. Without scripture confirming our reasons they cannot be considered.

Bless you

In nearly every instance the scriptures I use to support my beliefs are the very same ones you use to support yours. We simply understand and interpret them differently. Sue D said to me...

Oh, really, you Don't accept part of God's inspired word?! What Else do you choose to Not accept.

I believe what I do because I believe in the Inspired Word of God. The word 'inspired means "God breathed or God spoke." That means when God spoke to His servants the prophets he spoke to them in the same language they also spoke and understood. To hopefully acquire truth, part of my method - hermeneutic is to look at the Word of God in the same language He spoke - and the same language the Prophets understood. That's how I base my "understanding of scripture."

People enjoy building themselves up by saying others deny the inspired Word - or by saying THEY are inspired by the holy spirit, or like what you say,

Everything we are studying here is based on scripture.

Those comments are meaningless to me because everyone believes their truth is derived right from the Word of God - scripture.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Digging in to the location and size and location of the New Jerusalem may cause us to miss the main point - Jerusalem is the dwelling place of God and the seat of the king of Israel. God will be with us and reign over us forever.

Read the descriptions of Jerusalem asking yourself - what kind of king and what kind of kingdom is this?

You should find that the meaning of crystal rivers and healing trees etc fit into place more naturally

Greetings @Hekuran

So true brother and a very good point.

The New Jerusalem is the Church, it is Zion, it is the Body of Christ being built up in the Current Heaven right now, it will continue to be built in the Current Heaven until all those God has called, whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb are complete.

God is as you say the King of Israel, He is seated on the Throne of Grace, His Glory shines from the throne.
Jesus is also sat at His right hand, Jesus is the Light, the light shines forth 24 hours a day, there is no need for sun or moon in the New Jerusalem, Jesus is the Light.

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul --- the tribulation period -- according to Daniel 9 , there's a final 7 yr segment of time coming up -- vs 27 divides that week (7 yrs.) into two segments 3 1/2 yrs each. the 2nd 3 1/2 yrs is when the Great Tribulation takes place. The Antichrist comes into power.

So true @Sue D. thank you for quoting Daniel 9.

We have included the Tribulation Period as Item 1 on post #92
We have also included the Great Tribulation Period as Item 3 on the list in the same post.

The 1,000 yr reign of Christ here on earth. Since believers had already been raptured up -- only the non saved people will be here those next 7 years. That's when the non-believing Jews will have another chance to accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. that one passage in Revelation says that multitudes will be saved from all over the world during those 7 yrs.

I agree @Sue D. except to say we do not know at what stage the Rapture will happen. You are considering to be before the Tribulation Periods, I have placed it in the list on Post #92 as Item 2, which could be up to the three and a half year point, the end of the Tribulation Period, but before the Great Tribulation Period.

I have noted on item 2 that we do not know when this will occur for certain but placed it at that point which is before the 'silence in Heaven', before the Great Tribulation Period starts. The thought being that God lifted Noah and his family out before the sinners were dealt with. Either of these thoughts could be right, but in all honesty we don't know, we can only place it before the Great Tribulation based on scripture with Noah and his family. Unless someone knows of other scriotures we can consider together.

All those who Do survive those 7 horrible years Will be alive for the 1,000 yr reign of Christ. And satan will be chained and unable to influence anyone on earth. That period of time will be unlike anything we've ever experienced. People from the Old Testament Before the flood were living almost 1,000 yrs. Adam I'm thinking lived 960 or so years. Several men lived into their 900's. I'm kind of wondering if the same is going to be taking place during the coming 1,000 yr reign of Christ. But we Do know that the earths' population is going to be replenished. And it has been commented that in That period of time in history , we won't be able to use the excuse that "the devil made me do it" cause he's not going to be able to influence us. And then it will become apparent that our natural hearts Are sinful.

If the Rapture is in the first Tribulation Period, the saved believers will be Raptured and lifted from the earth. The Rapture being the point that defines, those who are left behind, e.g. none believers.

But from the Rapture to the point when Jesus comes again in Glory, could it be some will turn to the Lord and repent? We do know some will be beheaded for their faith in this period, and as included in the list on Post #92 these will live through the Millennium, 1000 year period.

Rev. 20: 7 - 9 That's interesting -- satan will be released and free to create havoc again. Which he does. And, in spite of everything -- large numbers of people Do - again follow satan -- there is the final battle -- the believers are surrounded in the beloved city. When it seems that satan has actually Won -- God breathes fire down from heaven and devours the enemy. And Then every one is cast into lake of fire and brimstone -- satan joins those who are already there -- the beast and the false prophet.

And Then the great white throne.

So true @Sue D. thank you. But satan will only be released for a short period (short in God's eyes). We know a massive number will betray the Lord at the end of the 1000 year period, but I am not sure it will be all in that period. The question we have to scriptural define is who is in the Millennium period of 1000 years, it appears there will be those from the Tribulation periods (after the rapture when ever it is), there will be those who were beheaded for their faith and didn't take the mark, during the Great Tribulation Period. It seems there may be the remnant, of Jews and Gentiles.

But who else?
And is this on the Current Earth under Christ's rule or the New Earth, I tend to think the current earth but I need to see scripture to confirm

I am of a view as the study continues that the Church in the Current Heaven, the New Jerusalem, will not come onto the New Earth, or restored and made new earth, until after all evil is removed.

Please keep scripture coming for all the stages in Post #92, together we will end up with a much better picture and have a better understanding of the stages God has planned, with the ultimate goal, The New Jerusalem, the Church, in the Holy City, with God, with our Lord.

Bless you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

saginon -- I hope you won't be too disappointed if , as a believer, you Do get raptured up with the rest of us Before the 7 yrs. begins. So -- what do You do with the passage in Daniel 9 : 24 and following.

Scripture Does tell us that everyone Will be required to accept the mark of the beast = 666 either on their hand or their forehead -- in order to get any kind of supplies / food, work, much of anything. And Scripture Also tells us that any believer who takes it Will receive the wrath of God.

Greeting Sue

The requirement for the Mark of the Beast will be in the Great Tribulation Period, the last 3 verses sum up the controlling power the beast will have in that period

Revelation 13:11-18
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.
14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

 

[Brother-Paul]

this is a great question and one that has puzzled me. I am sure we will have glorified bodies on earth during the thousand years, but there will also be people with out glorified bodies natural bodies that will die and they will be the one the devil deceives and brings against the saints who have glorified bodies.

I think all the saints will have glorified bodies and serve with Christ not just the beheaded ones that came out of tribulation,

got to get ready for work, hopefully remember to add scripture this afternoon to back up my thoughts.

would love to here what @Sue D. has to say about these questions

Greeting brother

There are lots of items that seem to puzzle us @Dave M. ,I to welcome what all other have to say and the scripture they include, @Sue D. @B-A-C and anyone else.

I though the same as yourself, until we delved deeper as we have in this study.

All items and all stages mentioned in Post #92 are open for discussion, the stages and what happens to Saved souls in these stages are only pencilled in and can change with other scriptures verses provided as we consider them and the bigger picture together.

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

The reason for "the separation of the sheep and goats" is to determine who enters the Millennium. Many associate IT with the rapture, but the sheep and goats judgment is the one that determines who enters the 1,000 years in their natural bodies. A remnant of Israel will also enter the Millennial kingdom, and all those who do enter will serve Christ AND Israel during it. So that is my answer to the pre-trib question, "who will enter the Millennium?" I'm not convinced - not sure - that resurrected/raptured believers enter the Millennium. I can't say I've studied it enough to make that determination.

Greetings brother

Thank you for bringing up the sheep and the goats, this is very important as we look at the stages mentioned in Post #92

Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


I just happened to be reading this and felt it worth adding.

This explains to us how Jesus Christ will judge the Gentile nations.
The word nations in Matt 25:32 means "Gentiles," and it is in the neuter gender in the Greek.
The word them in that same verse is in the masculine. This means that the nations will be gathered before Jesus Christ, but He will judge them as individuals.
This will not be a judgement of groups (e.g. Germany, USA, UK, Japan, Africa, etc.) but of individuals within these nations.

Not to confuse this judgement with the Great White Throne Judgement described in Rev 20:11-15
This judgement takes place on earth immediately after the Battle of Armageddon.

There is another error we must avoid. We must not force this passage to teach salvation by good works.

The Old Testament saints were saved by faith (Heb. 11);
the New Testament saints were saved by faith in Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:8-10).
People today are saved the same way. The gospel of "do good" is not a scriptural message. It is right for believers to do good (Gal. 6:10; Heb. 13:16), but this is not the way unbelievers can be saved.

Taken from - Bible Exposition Commentary

 

[Hekuran]

Thank you @Hekuran

We are transformed at the Rapture but not into glorious bodies at this stage, we are transformed into spiritual bodies and will be with the Lord in the Current Heaven.

We will also be transformed at the end of time into our Glorious bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

All these verses are on the subject of the resurrection. No reference to rapture at all.

 

[Brother-Paul]

All these verses are on the subject of the resurrection. No reference to rapture at all.

True brother, I didn't reread what I have put, before hitting the button to post it, it should have read...

We are transformed at the Rapture but not into glorious bodies at this stage, we are transformed into spiritual bodies and will be with the Lord in the Current Heaven.

Not to be mistaken by the transformation mentioned below at the end of time into our Glorious bodies.

1 Cor 15:35-58

Thanks again

 

[Hekuran]

True brother, I didn't reread what I have put, before hitting the button to post it, it should have read...

We are transformed at the Rapture but not into glorious bodies at this stage, we are transformed into spiritual bodies and will be with the Lord in the Current Heaven.

Not to be mistaken by the transformation mentioned below at the end of time into our Glorious bodies.

1 Cor 15:35-58

Thanks again

Ok. I'm not following where you have the idea that our bodies are transformed at the rapture. Is there a bible passage you have in mind, or is it by working through logic?

For me, i can see only that our bodies decay at death and are renewed and glorified at the resurrection. Unless we're alive when jesus returns, in which case it's an eye-twinkling transformation.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Ok. I'm not following where you have the idea that our bodies are transformed at the rapture. Is there a bible passage you have in mind, or is it by working through logic?

For me, i can see only that our bodies decay at death and are renewed and glorified at the resurrection. Unless we're alive when jesus returns, in which case it's an eye-twinkling transformation.

If the Rapture occurred right now, all saved believers will meet with our Lord in the air and be with Him in the Current Heaven.

My reference of being transformed at the Rapture is not scriptural but is based on the fact we will be humans on earth and in the blink of an eye we will be with the Lord, in the Current Heaven we will be spirit and soul until we receive our new glorious bodies which is when we are truly transformed.

Would you agree with this, transformation is not the word, we will be changed in the blink of an eye would probably have been a better explanation.

 

[Sue D.]

Guys -- to interject a thought -- 'this' sounds more like a college or seminary-level course not a Forum discussion. Do 'we' get graded for our discussion in the class?!

It's fine to want answers to questions we all have -- but, to try to be dogmatic about what's going to happen and when -- with Scripture and or our own suppositions -- well -- Do you really believe we're Meant to figure out everything?! We Do know that God Is in control.

Well -- one of the posters doesn't believe there will be a 7 yr period of tribulation at All.

One thing Scripture Does say is that the rapture will take place at some point in the future -- it will happen in an instant of time. Examples are given -- two people will be in a field working -- one will be taken and the other left,. People will be in bed sleeping -- one will be taken and the other one left.

some years ago I took a course on Revelation in a Prescept's class. It was over a two-year period of time. The guy who was doing the lecturing was presenting all the views Of the rapture with Scripture -- put it in line-graph form -- easier to read / understand, All the pros and cons of each view with Scriptural backing. And in the long-run -- the pre-trib rapture made the most sense. And a lot of his evidence was based on the Daniel 9 passage. The last of the 7 'weeks' years is yet to come.

I really don't think we're Meant to understand all of the timing, of everything. We're told what God wants us too know in order to be warned -- as the unsaved people read Revelation - they might see their need and accept Christ as Savior.
We need to be standing strong NOW -- Today is all the time we know we Do have.

Dave M. wanted to know my thoughts on some of those questions. So -- will share.

In response to this and your previous reply...
Say for example uncle louis is taking his 17 year old daughter, his 18 year old niece, niece, and his 20 year old nephew to the fair. The only Christian in the car is uncle Louis. The rapture happens, uncle Louis is raptured, and the car plummets off a cliff killing his daughter, niece, and nephew. Do you think uncle Louis wife, and his niece and nephew's parents would have a favorable opinion of God since He was ultimately responsible for their death?

In the twinkling of an eye does NOT mean all at once!

I'm going to inject a thought -- regarding 'Uncle Louis taking some of his family to the fair. He's the only saved person in the car -- and the driver -- the rapture takes place and he's taken -- the car goes off a cliff and everyone dies as a result -- the comment -- Uncle Louis's wife and the parents of his nieces -- their opinion of God -- would it be favorable because God would be responsible for their deaths? Well -- Uncle Louis was a believer -- did he share the Gospel of salvation with his wife and neices? I would imagine that he Would have because that's the nature Of salvation . A desire To share with family / loved ones Of your salvation. Did they Probably see a difference in his life? Was he possibly using the trip to the fair as a time to share Gospel with them? Were they willing To listen? Were they rejecting what he was trying to share?

And Was God responsible for their deaths? No -- the rapture is God's mercy in taking born-again believers up to be with Him. This world is gradually getting more and more violent / evil -- God has told everyone in the world -- both directly like 'here' and indirectly through missionaries who are called to go to the part of the world that God wants them to go to. We are responsible individually for our own salvation. Well -- the Holy :Spirit does the convicting and we each either accept or reject. Does God really need our favorable opinion of Him? God has shown us how much He truly loves All of us -- He gave us His Son on the cross to Die for us and rise again For us. WE either accept or reject Him.

So -- what questions does Dave M. have for me so that I can respond to them.