Non-OSAS belief - undermines the cross

[Sue D.]

@Butch5 -- what about the example I shared from the book of Esther.

The Holy Spirit is the 3rd part of the trinity. There is God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sue D.]

The prodigal son -- he was part of the family. He chose to leave but returned home after a while. He was welcomed back with open arms. He never lost his standing as the father's son. He didn't have to work his way back into good standing with his father.

 

[KingJ]

I think the understanding should be that God will not leave us but that doesn't stop us from leaving God. It is the Covenant between God and us.

God will certainly never break his end of the Covenant, but we on the other hand it depends on what we do

This is the achilles heal of the debate. It shows you do not properly grasp what a Christian is.

There is no such thing as a Christian leaving God. Only 'Christians' who think they are within. As Paul says in 1 Cor 5 ''brethren so called''.

I repeat, God is not a fool who grafts a demon into heaven. He judges our minds and hearts at depths of intent as only He can Jer 17:9-12. The criteria to be saved is on par with laying your life down.

Now, would you ever ban from your house someone who lay their life down for yours???? If you are sane, which God is, I think not!! Case closed

In fact lets switch roles. God laid His life down for ours. Will you ever leave Him? or doubt His love for you?

 

[KingJ]

The prodigal son -- he was part of the family. He chose to leave but returned home after a while. He was welcomed back with open arms. He never lost his standing as the father's son. He didn't have to work his way back into good standing with his father.

The prodigal son is actually a bad example to prove OSAS. Its purpose is to make the point that God is always welcoming of people who will repent of their sins.

Think of it more as a ''Christian so called'', someone who sat in church and sang, took part in the presence of the Holy Spirit, ''tasted'' Him As Heb 6:4 mentions. They then leave and come back, after making a decision to take serving God seriously. God is not a fool that would grasp into His eternal family someone who ''''''tasted'''''' of Him .

 

[Bill]

The prodigal son -- he was part of the family. He chose to leave but returned home after a while. He was welcomed back with open arms. He never lost his standing as the father's son. He didn't have to work his way back into good standing with his father.

There is a difference between the son and Judas. The son came back while he was still yet alive.

Also, to take note. It being a son of the father, did not stop him from sinning. If he had not sought to be forgiven, if he had not chosen to return. Then he would have died outside and away from the father as Judas chose.

Judas was the prodical son who chose not to return to the father.

 

[Bill]

The prodigal son is actually a bad example to prove OSAS. Its purpose is to make the point that God is always welcoming of people who will repent of their sins.

Think of it more as a ''Christian so called'', someone who sat in church and sang, took part in the presence of the Holy Spirit, ''tasted'' Him As Heb 6:4 mentions. They then leave and come back, after making a decision to take serving God seriously. God is not a fool that would grasp into His eternal family someone who ''''''tasted'''''' of Him .

Actually it is a great example. It shows the Covenant between God and us. The bonding through Jesus death on the cross. How God will eternally recieve us with love. We only have to Want to return. Want to be forgiven. But if we are like Judas, A prodical son who takes matters into our own hands and believes we do not need to be forgiven. Even when we sin against God.

What did the boy say as he was returning. I have sinned against you and against God. Confessing his sins as he was comming home.

 

[Curtis]

Luk 15:4 “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them gets lost, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others in the wilderness and go to search for the one that is lost until he finds it?
Luk 15:5 And when he has found it, he will joyfully carry it home on his shoulders.
Luk 15:6 When he arrives, he will call together his friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.’

 

[KingJ]

Actually it is a great example. It shows the Covenant between God and us. The bonding through Jesus death on the cross. How God will eternally recieve us with love. We only have to Want to return. Want to be forgiven. But if we are like Judas, A prodical son who takes matters into our own hands and believes we do not need to be forgiven. Even when we sin against God.

What did the boy say as he was returning. I have sinned against you and against God. Confessing his sins as he was comming home.

No Bill, disagree.

It is a terrible example as ....Judas was never a child of God. Judas would never have been grafted into the family Rom 11:11-31, passed the acid test of repentance Psalm 51:17.

If we read Matt 16:16-17, we see that Peter was the one disciple that was in fact given a revelation of Jesus being the Messiah. A case could be made for only Peter being a ''Christian''.

All Christians receive a revelation of Jesus being Lord. As 1 Cor 12:3 explains, you cannot call Jesus Lord unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.

Like I have said many times, non-OSAS believers simply do not properly understand what a Christian is and what it takes to become one.

Please read this before your next reply here What is a Christian and how do you become one?

 

[Curtis]

The reason Judas was chosen by Jesus was to fulfill Old Testament scripture.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

 

[Curtis]

Heb 12:6 For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”
Heb 12:7 As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father?
Heb 12:8 If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.
Heb 12:9 Since we respected our earthly fathers who disciplined us, shouldn’t we submit even more to the discipline of the Father of our spirits, and live forever?
Heb 12:10 For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God’s discipline is always good for us, so that we might share in his holiness. (NLT)

 

[Bill]

No Bill, disagree.

It is a terrible example as ....Judas was never a child of God. Judas would never have been grafted into the family Rom 11:11-31, passed the acid test of repentance Psalm 51:17.

If we read Matt 16:16-17, we see that Peter was the one disciple that was in fact given a revelation of Jesus being the Messiah. A case could be made for only Peter being a ''Christian''.

All Christians receive a revelation of Jesus being Lord. As 1 Cor 12:3 explains, you cannot call Jesus Lord unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.

Like I have said many times, non-OSAS believers simply do not properly understand what a Christian is and what it takes to become one.

Please read this before your next reply here What is a Christian and how do you become one?

It's very clearly stated that Judas Iscariot name was written in heaven

I don't know what more proof you need.

 

[KingJ]

It's very clearly stated that Judas Iscariot name was written in heaven

Judas was not a child of God!! All names are written in heaven. All babies go to heaven when they die. I will try dig up a discussion we had on this in the past. This does not mean babies are children of God. All will receive their time to be tested by the devil. Just as Judas had his.

Nobody is born a child of God. You are made a child of God when you are washed by the blood of Jesus. Judas was A. Never washed by the blood of Jesus, as he did not live post the cross and B. The evidence of his sinful state and choices does not point to him being capable of Psalm 51:17 type repentance that would have got him into Abrahams bosom or worthy of a revelation of Jesus as Peter and all Christians today receive.

Meditate on 1 Cor 12:3, NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY can call Jesus Lord, EXCEPT it be revealed to them by God / The Holy Spirit. This is done after 1. We repent James 4:8, 2. Our repentance is judged Jer 17:9-12.

 

[Bill]

Judas was not a child of God!! All names are written in heaven. All babies go to heaven when they die. I will try dig up a discussion we had on this in the past. This does not mean babies are children of God. All will receive their time to be tested by the devil. Just as Judas had his.

Nobody is born a child of God. You are made a child of God when you are washed by the blood of Jesus. Judas was A. Never washed by the blood of Jesus, as he did not live post the cross and B. The evidence of his sinful state and choices does not point to him being capable of Psalm 51:17 type repentance that would have got him into Abrahams bosom or worthy of a revelation of Jesus as Peter and all Christians today receive.

Meditate on 1 Cor 12:3, NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY can call Jesus Lord, EXCEPT it be revealed to them by God / The Holy Spirit. This is done after 1. We repent James 4:8, 2. Our repentance is judged Jer 17:9-12.

Jesus while talking to the apostles States clearly that their names are written in heaven. And included with that when it talks about those who went to the towns to cast out demons and to heal people Judas iscariot's name was posted along with the names of the other apostles. And I always thought it was curious that the full name of Judas Iscariot was used where all the other Apostles it was just their first name

 

[Bill]

Judas was not a child of God!! All names are written in heaven. All babies go to heaven when they die. I will try dig up a discussion we had on this in the past. This does not mean babies are children of God. All will receive their time to be tested by the devil. Just as Judas had his.

Nobody is born a child of God. You are made a child of God when you are washed by the blood of Jesus. Judas was A. Never washed by the blood of Jesus, as he did not live post the cross and B. The evidence of his sinful state and choices does not point to him being capable of Psalm 51:17 type repentance that would have got him into Abrahams bosom or worthy of a revelation of Jesus as Peter and all Christians today receive.

Meditate on 1 Cor 12:3, NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY can call Jesus Lord, EXCEPT it be revealed to them by God / The Holy Spirit. This is done after 1. We repent James 4:8, 2. Our repentance is judged Jer 17:9-12.

As far as being made versus born first of all we are all the created children of God. Then you have those who are born again, and they are drawn to the Lord via the Holy Spirit

This is all scriptural

 

[KingJ]

As far as being made versus born first of all we are all the created children of God. Then you have those who are born again, and they are drawn to the Lord via the Holy Spirit

This is all scriptural

We are most certainly not all created children of God. Please share the scripture.

You have just discarded the importance of the blood covenant with Jesus.

The only way a creation can become part of God's family is by the shedding of the blood of Jesus. Creating a blood covenant between a creation and their Creator.

This is Christianity 101 Bill. What denomination are you?

 

[Bill]

We are most certainly not all created children of God. Please share the scripture.

You have just discarded the importance of the blood covenant with Jesus.

The only way a creation can become part of God's family is by the shedding of the blood of Jesus. Creating a blood covenant between a creation and their Creator.

This is Christianity 101 Bill. What denomination are you?

Unless you believe in evolution, in the beginning we were created. Genesis

 

[Sue D.]

Bill. . While we all were created physically by God. A person needs to be born-again to become a child of God.
BTW if you're interested I'm at [email protected]

 

[Curtis]

Adam and Eve were created but everyone else after them are born here. Becoming born again by the Spirit of God has become a new creation.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

[Bill]

I think the word is semantics but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

You guys are really starting to make me laugh, and I'm not trying to laugh but it's just so ridiculous. Almost as bad as this argument I'm having with a priest right now about the so-called powers of Satan. Had to be quite honest it's all stemming from the same Focus.

Your understanding of creation is extremely Limited. Because you are not recognizing the fact that God creates and continues to create even to this day. Every child born is a created person. Without God, there would be no children.

Now I know that science is trying to make a child, but the child science makes will be without a soul. And if they are able to do this and I think they already have that soul is person will be nothing but a demon.

all things are created in God p e r i o d, there is nothing that is not created by God. Even if God allows the scientists to build a human it is still allowed by God.

and to my argument with that priest who believes that Satan has authority to give gifts to other people. Satan was created as Lucifer and was given all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and then Lucifer rejected God rejected love which is the base Foundation of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Those gifts that Satan gives to Mystics and witches and whoever else they are indeed gifts of the holy spirit that have been corrupted.

so going back to mankind, all of mankind has been created by God. And as Sue stated you have to be born again to be born from above

 

[Bill]

Adam and Eve were created but everyone else after them are born here. Becoming born again by the Spirit of God has become a new creation.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

You are not the Temple of the Holy Spirit, however you inhabit the Temple of the Holy Spirit which is your body. The soul that you are is created by God