Once saved can we lose our salvation??

[jari]

Disobedience does not mean a loss of salvation, and obedience does not secure salvation. Disobedience can lead a person to rejecting God and Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and then they can loose their salvation. The warning is not to bring a fear that it is easy to loose salvation, the warning is to check often that a falling away is not happening.

if there isn't any condition who would decide to give up salvation if that's what falling away means to you?

Notice the last line. Those who do not wish to put their selves through the refining fire now, and do what the Lord says, will have to later. Even though they will be saved themselves, if they do not fall completely away, but they will have nothing to lay at the Lord's feet when they get there.

as much as we try our work may burn. i don't think these verses you posted are talking about obedience but skillfulness to build up others and the end resolution is did they become strong christians in faith.

 

[Romans 8.28]

Hi All.

This questions comes up a lot and i'm still not sure of the answer. But can we lose our salvation?. I've read scripures saying that all we need to do is confess with our mouths that Jesus is our saviour etc and we will then have eternal life but then i read about God punishing others like King david for his sins.
I have had a few struggles with commiting the same sin over and over and i really do repent and do the 180 but i then fall back into sin again. I love Jesus, and i do hate disappointing God and myself. But it always raises the question can you lose your salvation??...
Thanks in advance.. GOD BLESS

Maybe you should read of David's life.

Acts 13:22 . . I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will.

Yes David suffered as being on the judgment seat for his sin, but in Psalms 51:12 we see him asking God: Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. David did not ask that his salvation be restored; he was anointed.

Even Samuel who attempting to take David's life continued to be anointed. 1 Samuel 24:10 Behold, this day thine eyes have seen how that the LORD had delivered thee to day into mine hand in the cave: and some bade me kill thee: but mine eye spared thee; and I said, I will not put forth mine hand against my lord; for he is the LORD'S anointed.

We are God's workmanship as per Ephesians 2:10, and it is God Who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13), as He conforms us to the image of his Son. There is the cliché: "Stop or quit trippin, God ain't finished with me yet." Steve Harvey uses that.

Can't you just see the work as God prepares you for the following greeting? Matthew 25:21 . . Well done, thou good and faithful servant (Who, me?): thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

 

[DutchChristian]

Let's take a look at Matthew 5:22,

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

yes hell fire... and this is talking about a christian brother and not betwixt the heathen men.

 

[bgsda]

To those that believe that you cannot lose your salvation correct me if im wrong but are you saying that once you get saved God is going to force you like it or not into heaven? Lets be real. Think about it for about 1 minute or 2. The God i know is not going to kidnap anybody. God bless

 

[Michelle71]

if there isn't any condition who would decide to give up salvation if that's what falling away means to you?



as much as we try our work may burn. i don't think these verses you posted are talking about obedience but skillfulness to build up others and the end resolution is did they become strong christians in faith.

Being disobedient does not mean we loose salvation, but can lead to a falling away or backslidden state. Being backslidden can then lead to rejecting salvation. Maybe the better way to look at this, is not that salvation can be lost, but denied or rejected.

The warnings in the NT about this have to be there for a reason. Think about the reason children are warned..it is because it has happened in real life with real people.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

The end of faith is the salvation of the soul. But there is a warning within this passage that needs to be taken to heart. The instruction is obedience and not fashioning self to former lusts. How is that done exactly?

Salvation is like a marriage covenant. Think about how a marriage can disintegrate. All starts out well with communication and spending time with the spouse. Then after some years when they have other pressing things in life...children, jobs that require more time and energy, financial problems, health problems etc, they find they are not communicating as much and fall away from each other. They are still married at the time, but things are not as intimate as before. They have lost their first love for each other, and so are going through the motions. After some time of that state, then things can go from bad to worse, and then a seperation or divorce can become reality.

When 2 people get married the covenant is not guaranteed. There are things that each must do to maintain the marriage. An obedience to each other and Christ. The only way a marriage survives is through faithfulness, giving one to the other in communication and time spent with the other.

Is that not the same thing with the Christian walk. With salvation? How can anyone remain faithful if they are not spending time with God, in prayer, reading the bible, and praise/worship? Would not that relationship disintegrate as well, and lead to falling away that could also lead to a separation. Not because God has moved away, but because the Christian has moved away and divorced that first love of Christ that they once had.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

The way back to the first love of Christ is repentance. Which is something that those who have the mindset that they cannot lose salvation may not hold as important as they should.

We should not live as if salvation can be lost at a drop of a hat, but on the other hand the warnings in scripture passed down from these 1st Christians should not be discarded as if a falling away cannot happen to us in this generation.

 

[jari]

Being disobedient does not mean we loose salvation, but can lead to a falling away or backslidden state. Being backslidden can then lead to rejecting salvation. Maybe the better way to look at this, is not that salvation can be lost, but denied or rejected.

The warnings in the NT about this have to be there for a reason. Think about the reason children are warned..it is because it has happened in real life with real people.



The end of faith is the salvation of the soul. But there is a warning within this passage that needs to be taken to heart. The instruction is obedience and not fashioning self to former lusts. How is that done exactly?

Salvation is like a marriage covenant. Think about how a marriage can disintegrate. All starts out well with communication and spending time with the spouse. Then after some years when they have other pressing things in life...children, jobs that require more time and energy, financial problems, health problems etc, they find they are not communicating as much and fall away from each other. They are still married at the time, but things are not as intimate as before. They have lost their first love for each other, and so are going through the motions. After some time of that state, then things can go from bad to worse, and then a seperation or divorce can become reality.

When 2 people get married the covenant is not guaranteed. There are things that each must do to maintain the marriage. An obedience to each other and Christ. The only way a marriage survives is through faithfulness, giving one to the other in communication and time spent with the other.

Is that not the same thing with the Christian walk. With salvation? How can anyone remain faithful if they are not spending time with God, in prayer, reading the bible, and praise/worship? Would not that relationship disintegrate as well, and lead to falling away that could also lead to a separation. Not because God has moved away, but because the Christian has moved away and divorced that first love of Christ that they once had.



The way back to the first love of Christ is repentance. Which is something that those who have the mindset that they cannot lose salvation may not hold as important as they should.

We should not live as if salvation can be lost at a drop of a hat, but on the other hand the warnings in scripture passed down from these 1st Christians should not be discarded as if a falling away cannot happen to us in this generation.

there are couple of good things in peter that are related to your questions.

"Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. "

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

christian being redeemed should cause willingness to obey. it's all matter of faith. if we lack faith well we cant be good christians.

the verse you posted about revelations is actually talking about church pastor or its was written to him. removing of candles stick doesnt symbolize losing salvation. it was something only the pastors of seven churches had (the seven candle stick) and this one was warned about losing his candle stick.

 

[bgsda]

God bless everyone. To God be the glory great things He had done, so loved He the world that He gave us His Son

 

[Stickz]

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant has always struck me as interesting:

Matthew 18:21-35

There is NO WAY to say that the man had never been forgiven his debt in the first place. His following actions cost him the grace that he had been given.

 

[jari]

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant has always struck me as interesting:

Matthew 18:21-35

There is NO WAY to say that the man had never been forgiven his debt in the first place. His following actions cost him the grace that he had been given.

Jesus said you wont get out of prison until you have paid the last coin. so you do get out but should forgive others to not get there in the first place.

 

[Michelle71]

The first man asked to be forgiven, and the king forgave him. The one who was indebted to that first man asked for forgiveness, and was denied that forgiveness. Seems to be a pattern throughout scripture.

 

[Michelle71]

One more thought about forgiving others. Do we expect God to forgive us when there is no repentance? I don't. But God does not hold grudges nor is He bitter either. He waits patiently for repentance. That is the model we should look at when dealing with forgiving others debts or trespasses against us as well.

 

[jari]

yes but we musnt forget rest of Lord's words.

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

 

[Stickz]

Yes, Jari, but you are reaching: If God ever took back His mercy and grace ( which people that believe in OSAS believe can't happen anyway ) and demanded that payment be made, could we ever make the payment? No. And why would He torment you over something that He'd already given you forgiveness for? For our own good? After forgiveness, there is no amount of chastisement or torment that can take place without the loss of the "Forgiven" status. Telling someone that you've forgiven them, then making them pay for it in ANY way is not forgiveness. You can't rightly tell someone that you've forgiven them and then continue to bring their offense up to them every time they are around. You can't tell your wife that you forgive her for something and turn around and smack her for the offense. You can't forgive your kids for something and turn around and ground them for a month for the offense.

Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We see by this verse that Jesus was comparing the man and his master, from the parable, to us and God. People that believe in OSAS maintain that one cannot possibly lose the forgiveness that was given, but this parable seems to say otherwise. And without the forgiveness and grace of God, it would take an eternity of torment for us to pay our debt to God. That's what I get from the parable, anyway ( but realize that you cannot interpret it the same way without forfeiting your belief in OSAS ). And fully believe that that is what was meant to be taken from the parable. Our showing mercy has a direct effect on God's mercy toward us. "The Lord's Prayer" has a similar message: Forgive us our debts as we forgive those that are indebted to us.

 

[jari]

being saved is of grace but life it self has some conditions. i mean God can discipline us if He wishes so

 

[Stickz]

Discipline you for what, Jari?

 

[jari]

Discipline you for what, Jari?

thats something for God to decide

 

[Romans 8.28]

Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6:44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

[bgsda]

Romans so your saying all we have to do is believe in Jesus and were automatically saved? And what are we saved from?

 

[Shutterbug]

I'm going to toss out an example just to get a reaction. The example I will use is the Reverend James Swaggart. I am not picking on him, but letting you folks decide on whether his conduct was befitting of a crown in Paradise. As some know, he was caught spending time with a prostitute. Forgivable? Certainly. However, Mr. Swaggart had implemented rules of conduct against someone else in his organization for doing such a thing. Mr. Swaggart did not feel his own rules applied to him because he was in charge. Forgivable? Worse, he repeated his former indiscretion. Forgivable? Certainly. At that point, he was made to step down whether he liked it or not. His credibility was shattered and he went from King to pauper almost overnight.

My question is simply this: had Mr. Swaggart decided the rules did not apply to him at all, would he still be eligible for a crown in Paradise? The first issue was entirely about pride, and it's our pride which separates us from God. One can argue that Mr. Swaggart would be informed on Judgement Day that Jesus never knew him. But future conduct is not indicative of present or past conduct. If so, repentance would be meaningless.

The last I heard of Mr. Swaggart, he is still preaching unless he has retired. While this is an extreme example, we go through the obedience lessons every day ranging from obeying the posted speed limit to group conformity. How we choose to spend our time is indicative of where we stand WRT our Saviour.

 

[Beans]

It may seem like a small difference, but it is a very significant one. The OSAS believers say that once you have said the sinners prayer that God is basically obligated to let you into heaven, no matter what you do. They argue that there is nothing that you can do to be saved (except say a prayer and go to church!) and that once you are saved there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Personally, I don't think an all wise, all knowing God would commit himself to such a flawed contract. It's all in OUR favour and nothing in his. To say that once we are saved we can do whatever we want and God HAS to save us, just does not make sense. God has standards. Jesus has standards, and we can't just pretend like they don't mean anything because we've invented this great little theology called OSAS.
The promises that Romans is talking about relate to the faithful. Not just anyone. If we want the blessings that come from the Vine, then we have to abide in it!

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Getting back to the "small difference". It's not that we could EVER do anything to make ourselves worthy of an eternity of bliss. That would be impossible. It's just that if we try to follow Jesus in FAITH then our faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:3) and then God (in his mercy) chooses to save us, because of our sincerity and it's manifestations.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Need I say more?