Hey:
Let me give it a try. For entertainment, as I figure any belief in Atheist form is but entertainment to myself. I can no more entertain the mindset that we all evolved out of a scoop of goo than I can believe there is no God, no hope and the order and expansion of the universe is random.
That you can't imagine it is fine, as I also can't understand how our world would look like through the perspective of a creationist
BTW, no God does not equal no hope. Research in cures for AIDS generates a lot of hope, and so does cancer treatment. Also, the expansion of the universe is anything but random.
I do believe things do evolve. But under the guidance and order of God. God created all life and all things and it is an ongoing process. We can see these things even in our short lifetimes. We see both the physical change in us and things, the development of new species , mans entrance into life with planned evolution of things such as the many breeds of dogs and so on. We watch society change and evolve and we watch people change some and also watch the many races mix and how people do change some.
I will thank you for accepting evolution, and accepting that evolution doesn't contradict your faith!
I view God as the ultimate scientist. The one who holds all the known laws of science and physics, and does cause some things to evolve. If you look at science of man, it is hopeless, there are no explainations to anything, only ideas and theory. But even the most intelligent men cannot connect the dots or explain our existence in a way of science. The never will be able to, as our intelligence is limited.
While I have no qualms about you saying God is the ultimate scientist, I do have qualms with you saying the science of man is hopeless. The science of man explains why fire burns. The science of man used fire to craft steel and create steam-powered engines. The science of man perfected the steam engine and made the internal combustion engine. Please wait for a moment the next time you step into a car and wonder where each piece of that car came from.
Also, science cannot, will not, was never meant to, and will never, explain our existence. Science will tell you where you came from (your mother's womb), but now why you were born (as in what is your purpose in life)
Have you ever seen a sea dragon?? It is a neat fish kinda like a sea horse. Look it up and tell me that evolved. Look at the simple rainbow after each rain, what holds it in order, why does not some wind or something blow the rain droplets out of line, what holds this rainbow of promise by God in order?? Look at the complex design of the human eye, what are the odds of all things coming perfectly in order to have that just simply happen. And why was it created? I think so we can see the greatness of Gods creation.
I'm sorry, but all of this is simply saying 'I don't know, therefore God did it.' In science, this is being intellectually lazy. Such thinking would never have made the car a reality.
For the rainbow, it is the thousands of water molecules spread randomly in the atmosphere. Wind will displace some water droplets, but more will take its place. The rainbow does not move because rain acts sort of like a mirror, the rainbow always moves with the person who is looking at it. As for the promise of God, I'm just saying, but it's like a guy going in front of a church or a school or a mall with a loaded gun, and saying, 'Nope, not gonna kill anyone anymore'.
As for the eye, I agree. The odds of it coming together at random are so insignificant as to be practically zero. However, evolution is anything but chance.
Why was it created? Because who knows how many billions of years ago, an organism developed a light-sensitive patch, and it could 'see' predators before it ate it, and could swim away. That bacteria evolved in such a way that all living forms who have eyes are directly descended from that one primitive bacteria.
The Atheist view says.......there is no God,
Yes
there is no hope,
Nope
we are men and that is that.
Yes.
There is no hope for anything other than that provided by men.
Sorta. God won't make that chicken cook itself, you have to put it in the oven yourself.
This is why I wanted to make the Questions for Atheists thread, to resolve these misunderstandings.
That is a fairly pessimistic outlook on things if you look around and see how we as men are actually. We can not create anything, or explain anything.
Cars and science disagree with you my friend.
To me this takes more faith to believe in than to believe in our true living God. Our God is real, he is spirit and our very soul knows he is there. He is not a idol or statue or fake God, he is the God of creation, the living God, the one who through our own understanding of what we do understand does speak to us.
Well, that's the thing, I replaced faith with knowledge. Ancient people used to think the weather was controlled by the gods. If science were hopeless and couldn't explain anything, then how come we have weather forecasts? I'm sorry, but the old mythology of weather-changing gods was replaced with knowledge. As for souls and all that, that may very well be, and maybe God is made of the stuff of souls. But since we can't detect souls in any way, we'll never know. And hence, we cannot replace faith with knowledge. In the end, we can never know, some of us believe while others don't.
Another simple fact, over a 1500 year period or so, some 40 books of the basic bible were written down by men. All of them tie together in some way, and most of these men did not know each other , lived in different areas of the world and still the basic message is the same. Can man or any group of men write a book by themselves and have any order or agreement at all??
Well, you do realize that historians have been writing books since practically the dawn of civilization, and that they are not that inaccurate?
You do also realize that there is practically no Egyptian ancient history book mentioning the presence of a large group of Jewish slaves? We're talking about people who wrote down the history of everything, from how to groom your cat to what the pharaoh ate to the great dynasties?
Not hardly. I challenge you to write a book on how to install a mailbox and see if any can agree on how to do this. There will be 109 ways to install that mailbox and a gigantic fuss over the right way.
Well, that's sort of my point, because isn't that exactly what's happened with the Christian religion?
So you ask what does being a Christian do for us? Why do we believe. Well the basics are simple. We have hope. We hope for a better life, we hope for no crime, no sickness or disease, we hope for honor, honesty, truth and facts.
So far we are in agreement.
We do not find them in other men, we find them only in Gods word. Gods word to us is alive. It takes our basic knowledge and our inner soul and it speaks to us. It is the one truth that becomes revealed to us and we know it to be the truth and life of our soul .
Well, seeing as there are good men who are not Christian, allow me to doubt that assumption. As good men also do not immediately convert to Christendom upon developing morals, it seems the 'true origin of our morals is only revealed to those who have heard of Christ, through the works of other men.
It teaches us good morals, it teaches us to be honest, to care for others and it teaches us compassion and understanding. And above all it gives us hope.
So pretty much the same as I feel.
So the belief in God gives us hope, it teaches us the good side of life.
That is good, I am happy it has taught you that!
We cannot believe as you do, simply because God has placed into us the simple knowledge that he is the Creator.We know we do not understand, but to us this is not really important. We know that other men cannot make us understand either, so Gods spirit speaks to us and with a bit of time, our faith becomes unshakable.
Well see, the thing is I know I might be wrong. Some others might use that unshakable faith and misplace it to believe in something that is factually wrong. One needs to look no further than the Westboro Baptist Church. You might tell them they are wrong, but their faith is unshakable, they will not budge no matter what.
The difference between myself and you is I have bowed my head and said I accept you God, you are God and that is so, and you have the right to enforce your will as you are God.
Well, no. I don't think I am God. I don't think I am a god either. I'm not even the tiniest bit above mankind. I know I am just a smart monkey
I'm just one person out of 7 billion, on one planet out of 7, in one solar system out of millions of millions of others, in one galaxy out of a billion billion of galaxies. I know I am an insignificant speck of dust in the universe. Yet, out of all that, I have my own genetic code, no-one looks like me, thinks like me, can write like me, or create poetry like me. Despite being insignificant in the extreme, I am also unique.
I also know every other living creature on this planet is unique (well, okay, maybe not all bacteria, but hey) and I have no right to enforce my will on others. Many vocal and outspoken Christians, however, don't seem to realize this.
We only hope and pray that all will come to the simple way to bow their will and accept Gods simple way. He requires very little. He only has one request, simple believe in me. That is all.
Well, he does require a bit more. He does have a list of commandments, etc, but I get your point. In your opinion, the few and easy to fill requirements are nothing compared to the immense amount of good that comes with God, yes?
Well, atheists just don't attribute all the good things to God, is all.
Oh yea, men will take the word of God and become so smart, and dice it and hash it and fuss over it and by doing so create religion
Oh yes, thousands of them.
and atheists are born.
That is both right and wrong. There were no atheists before religion, but atheism is not a religion.
Many are pushed away from God due to the antics of men.
I agree. I have a friend online who was nearly driven to suicide due to pressure from his Mormon family and church.
But in Gods word he tells us this will be so. God himself is so very simple, believe in me and I will acknowledge you. It is just a simple as that. You are man, I am God , you do not know what you think you know, and I require you but accept me. If I gave you great intelligence you man would but destroy yourself with it. These things we are taught. It comes from the spirit.
I find it sort of ironic that some religious people tell us that God gave us our minds, but then say we shouldn't try to unravel the mysteries of our origins. Sort of like telling a kid not to eat the fruit you put within his reach.
Oh yeah...
Do you not wish hope? Can you provide a means by mans way with hope? I think not.
Hope is not something you wish for. Hope is what you wish to happen. When you say that you hope for peace in the world, you wish it could happen. Wishing alone however never got anyone far.
So that is what Christianity does for us......it gives us hope.
Respectfully
Kit
Well, as an atheist looking from the outside, I sense religions in general paint the world in a hopeless light, except for their religion, their saviour of mankind, through which everything is possible. I suppose I understand what you mean.
Respectfully,
BCRE8TVE
