Proof Of Creation

[BCRE8TVE]

BCRE8TVE
Here are some......

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

Again, this does not say how the Lord created the earth, nor how long it took. There is no conflict between the Bible and science.


You realize that everything had the right amount of gravitational pull, set in perfect orbit around each other, each planet pulling perfectly on each other.
Actually, no. Planets hardly pull each other at all, the mass of most planets is insignificant when compared to the mass of the sun. That is why Pluto (not a planet anymore) orbits the sun and not Uranus or Neptune.
The sun giving the right amount of light and heat,
There is too much light and heat in the desert, and hardly enough in the poles. The sun does not give the right amount, life adapted to the amount of light the sun is emitting.
the tides of the ocean, the countless forms of life each functioning off each other.
The tides are created by the sun and moon, one of which probably originated when an asteroid made a catastrophic collision with the earth. As for the life forms functioning off each other, that is also very well explained by evolution.
The worlds were framed perfect to avoid disaster, for just one to be off a little bit, things collide with each other.
It is very hard to understand the scale of the universe. You know all the replicas of the solar system? They are all wrong. If the solar system were shrunk down and distances were kept relative to their size, if the sun was the size of a basketball, the earth would be the about the size of a flea and be 2 miles away. The universe is literally mind-blowingly huge.
youtube . com / watch?v=58fs5yI8K9I

Compass is Round, yet men of the greatest mindes thought for a long time the earth was flat. How much time saved taking God at his word? God would know, he created it.

How unfortunate God didn't say sphere, or yet bother to tell people to wash their hands before doing an operation. It would've a lot of trouble in Europe around the 13th century.

BCRE8TVE Some day your going to have to face the creator, the one that made you and had a plan for you. You can say you did not know, but yet you will reminded you where here, speaking with us. Reminded of all the other opportunities you had to humble yourself and hear.

However, what, except the bible, tells us there is only one god, and that it is yours? I may one day meet my maker, and maybe you will one day too, and it might not be who you expect.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

So basically, we know God is there because we can't see Him. I'm sorry, but that's not really evidence FOR him.

The things you see, all the tree's, grass, all in order, where made of things not seen, but God is also understood by those things around you that are made from the unseen. My hope is that you may look around, grasping the greatness of creation, coming to fully realize that someday you will face the one that did make everything.
Lets hope that is a day of joy, and not regret.

Jesus Is Lord.

I do understand the greatness of creation. I see the incredibly complex processes of adaptation and mutation, the incredibly delicate balance of organisms who depend on each other and grow thanks to each other.




David777

What a wonderful series of statements you made.

Let's discuss this one:

Then there is the tale of Abraham. What kind of parent would kill his child? What kind of cruel god would ask his follower to kill his only son, then to send an angel saying, 'No no, it was a joke, you're good'. What was the point of that? God knew in advance whether Abraham would or would not sacrifice his son, there was no point in testing him. And had God not sent the angel, Abraham would surely have slit his son's throat. Is that the kind of moral one wants to tout proudly with the bible?

This was no joke BCRE8TVE, God was determined that the human race would discover the depth of His love for us. Did God stop Abraham?
Yes He did, and then He provided the sacrifice for Abraham.

Think of it this way David. What if your grandparents had demanded your parents kill you as proof of love. Do you see how twisted that is? We discover God's love because he stopped a parent from butchering his only beloved son at His own orders. What if Abraham had refused out of love for his son? Would God have gotten angry because Abraham loved his son more than God? Isn't this a sign of envy, one of the seven deadly sins?

Further, God then provided the sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ for all humanity. Surely BCRE8TVE you can see that it is God whom provides for us. This is a messianic shadow of the New Testament revelation. Boneheads like us have to be shown the hard way or we just do not understand.

I never really understood that. God knew Jesus wouldn't really die, and he died to save us of our sins God put in us in the first place.
Also, it seems God's favourite way to make boneheads learn is by killing them. Zephaniah 3:6-10

Look how much you have already learn't BCRE8TVE.

I love those verses BCRE8TVE, thank you sir.

You love the verses about murder and rape also?

I thought you said earlier that you did not understand the Bible and you would not comment on it. You broke your own rule and look how much you gained. Keep up the good work BCRE8TVE.

I said so myself that I did not know the bible well. I did not want to post bible verses that were expressively evil. However, Brother Mike asked me to post them, and I did.
Not sure if you read it earlier, but I subscribed to a bible study, and had a lot of fun this Tuesday.

You know and I know that the answer to the ancient Greek proclamation "matter is made of indivisible particles".

Was of course atomic theory, at last we know!

Finally, after tens of centuries scientists had solved the riddle. Wow what an amazing achievement, profound.

Wait, there has been an update!

Quarks have been discovered.......

What? You mean one hundred years of domination by the atomic theory is over, it just cannot be!

Actually, no. The 'domination' by the atomic theory is not over, atoms are still there. We have simply added a new chapter to the book, quantum physics.

Further, we are moving into very theoretical physics, probabilities abound. We have pushed not only the equipment to the edge, we have great difficulty understanding what quarks are in fact.

That is correct. I assume you know what Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is? And yet, despite all this, progress is still being made.

But wait, there is more (like a demtel add on tv). Things below quarks, no way, this is a circle in a circle, etc.
Yeah they go up and down, left and right. blah, blah, blah.

Indeed, isn't it amazing how complex what we thought simple matter actually is?

Is Physics soon in for a reset, system failure, reboot.

Ummm, no. When you write a book, you keep writing more and more pages. Is there a need for a reset, system failure, reboot? Of course not, if you did, you'd never finish writing a book! You might need to go back and revise your book ,edit a few things, but in the end you do produce a book with more pages than when you started!
See it this way. In the beginning (let's start with Newton because it's simpler) Newton posed his 3 laws of motions. We could see this in everyday situations and accurately predict the motion of stars. But there were problems. When Einstein introduced relativity, a level beneath Newton's classic physics, many problems with Newton's theories were explained. But if relativity is better, why do we still teach Newton's laws in school? Because they still work. Because when you're not dealing with extreme speed or extreme distances, the three laws of motion are exact enough. When you ARE dealing with speeds approaching light-speed, then you NEED to introduce relativity, or else your results are way off.

Seriously BCRE8TVE this is beyond Science, it never had a chance.
I do not even listen to scientists anymore, they are mad.

So you are saying because we don't have a chance (according to you) we should stop altogether? Do you know what they said to Alexander Graham Bell when he was trying to invent the telephone? Do you know what they told the Wright brothers when they were trying to develop airplanes? Despite everyone telling them it'll never work, they kept going at it, and guess what? It worked. Now you want us to do the same with quantum physics?
Also, I'd like to point out it is scientists who developed radiation therapy, and who are now working on a viral anti-cancer medicine, basically a virus that only eats cancer cells. It was scientists who developed antibiotics and flu shots. The next time you are sick, do remember who created the medicine you will use.

Have you ever pondered why reality has to be this way?

Systematic progress, you must be kidding BCRE8TVE.

I have, and we still don't know the answer. It could be that the universe was designed this way. It could be that this universe is just one of untold billions of universes in the multiverse. It could be that the constants are fixed and cannot change, and we could find out why by researching quantum mechanics.

Without systematic progress, how do you propose we learn anything new David? One book is good, but it's not enough.

 

[Kit Carson]

I suppose that unless one accepts Jesus and his word there would not be much understanding of some things in the Old Testament.

As for that story in Judges where they hid behind bushes and stole girls and carried them off.......well......ya know the truth of it is very simple .

This was a very sinful tribe or tribes all under the tribe of one name the Benjamites.

A traveler and his servant and concubine visited one of these villagers and suffered great harm at their hands. So Israel declared war on them . The whole story shows that when we want to do things our way, to make our own rules and laws and act on our own and to become very sinful, there are consequences. So the Benjamites suffered great loss and punishment, and it was the elders of the Benjamite tribe that made the law or rule or whatever you want to call it, I call it ignorance, to hide behind bushes and steal young girls.
None of this would or should be considered a command by God, as he had nothing to do with it. Other than eventually standing on the side of Israel once they also bowed to him, he had nothing to do with any of it.
This is an example of what can happen when we want to do it our way. And in the end the bible simply says, each of the Benjamite tribe went to his inheritance............what that is or was....but I am sure God had some things to oversee on this one.

Many of the other very harsh laws, hey, Jesus himself was one to pick at the great and intelligent and learned religious leaders of that time and show them how ignorant they were.......so some things I do take with a grain of salt. Consider them mans way and mans law put into the old jewish religion and not of God. These laws are the basis of fanatics and extremism. absolutely God did not tell them to hide behind bushes and kidnap and use young girls.

Just some thoughts, as you do have to study the bible in its whole to understand many things. Without the knowledge and acceptance of Jesus they may never be revealed to you.

Kit

 

[Brother Mike]

God made the heavens and the Earth

BCRE8TVE

Again, this does not say how the Lord created the earth, nor how long it took. There is no conflict between the Bible and science.

Sorry I have not Gotten back to you. Day and night 24 hr period was defined below with the moon and sun. Just took seven of our actual days.

I want to thank you for all those scriptures, of course you beat some up and misunderstood them, but that would be expected. Instead of just grilling you on each scripture, I sort of saw the same theme I saw myself back a few years ago.

If God is so good, whats up with all this destruction????? get real folks!!!

I myself had a hard time with the Old Testament. In fact, I used it as one of many reasons I did not really want anything to do with this God.

I was not smart enough to defend Evolution like yourself, So, that option was not open for me. I was more into making my own mess of things.

BCRE8TVE Boy did I make a mess of things........ I gave up my wife and 2 kids, and got myself 3 Class x felony's from the state of IL. Woot!!!
That would be 18-90 years, per Class X felony. They say there are no Atheist in Fox Holes. I never been in a fox hole, I can't tell you if that is true or not. I can tell you my whole life was about to be over with some very serious charges against me.

People do some very silly things in these times of Great stress. Some kill themselves, some run from the Law, some just give up all hope. I figured if anyone could help me, it might be God. I sort of thought already God was real, could be anyway, at least I was hoping he was.
But even so, what leverage did I have to make God want to help me?

None.

Somehow my defense Attorney dropped my bail from 100,000 to 10,000. Serious charges as they where, I certainly did not kill anyone, or was considered a flight risk. My grandparents put up the 10K and got me out, and the prosecution continued my case (Make it last longer in court terms)
'
I figured that I had to somehow make God happy with me. I had no clue your suppose to go to church, and church sucked anyway, bunch of hypocrites if you where to ask me, certainly God would hate that.
I knew that your suppose to accept Jesus, So I said over and over I repent and accept Jesus. Just in case the request did not go through the first time.

I had to make God happy enough with me to help me. So, I figured God should be real happy if I started reading the bible. That is what I did, drank beer every night, and read the bible. I also did lots of crying to him for help.

The 3 Class x Felony's were all charges I did not do, each charge was wrong. I was involved and not certainly innocent, but the charges were not right. Nobody wanted to hear about it though, the state felt they had a good case.

So, in 5 months of continuances I drank beer and read my bible. I did not understand most of it, but God certainly had to be more happy with me, right?

Getting though the NT I ran into this passage of scripture.

Luk 18:3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
Luk 18:4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
Luk 18:5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
Luk 18:6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I saw this women get justice, and God helps those in court. That is about all I got out of it the first time reading it through. I never left this passage of scripture, or continued reading. I was stuck right here in Luke for the next two months, reading over and over and over the same passage, drinking my beer.

About the start of month seven, I told God that from now on, If I see it in your word, I will just believe, and I believe what Jesus said here. I had no indication God was even listening, but I had nothing else to hang on.

Also at this time I tried to reach out to a few Pastors for help, but each meeting ended up with condemnation. I guess I was just a little to low life for their taste.

Remember, none of the Charges where correct, but according to my understanding of Luke, even if things are unjust, God will make them right.

At the start of Month seven of continuances the Prosecutions was almost ready for trail. My Public defender called me and said "Guess what, I got a plea deal....... They are willing to only give you about 40 years total if you take a guilty plea. I asked what the Modified charges where. He told me and they where still wrong. I turned down the plea to the dismay of my Lawyer. God will make it right!! I kept reading Luke over and over.

about a week before trail, my Public defender calls again. Guess what, you won't believe this, but they are willing to make sure you get no more than 15 years, possibly less. I asked what the charges where, and 2 of them where still wrong. It was hard, but I declined. God will make it right...... even if the judge is unjust.

My Lawyer then broke it down for me. He said If I don't take this plea now a few days before trial, I could spend the rest of my life In prison. I told him I can't take it, I said it in tears, but I had to decline.

Friday morning it was trial day, I was getting ready to walk out the door and face the Jury. The phone rang, It was my public defender. I will never forget the words he said. He said "Guess what I did." He said, having just in a quick conversation with the prosecutor that morning, Telling me that the state had decided to offer me one more plea, and drop one charge. Both felony's dropped to a class 4. 2-4 years each. I asked what the charges where, He told me and they where right on the money. I told him I will take the plea.

21 months later I get out of prison.

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

[jiggyfly]

Brother Mike, I am curious where do you see in the scriptures that the day and the night are a 24 hour period?

I do see in the Genesis account that and evening and morning make a day But I don't see any mention of hours.:wink:

 

[Kit Carson]

God made two lights, one for day , one for night. The bright light was called day.......there is the 24 hour period.

The bible shows us time, and how men used to live a long life, it shows us how life has shortened .

God is very aware of time, and to God and to man, a day is a day.

Brother Mike...........so you are a desperado......lol! Well your words always ring truth to me. As you have experience God up close and personal. Oh yea, the legal system. The loss of a family, and divorce and children and the things of society and social things by man become involved......yes they are not fair and are of man. One is lucky to survive it all. I have never by the Grace of God had this , but my oldest son has been through some of it with false charges by the woman scorned so to speak. And by the Grace of God it all worked out..........So as encouragement as we all need sometimes, your words always to me speak the truth.



Kit

 

[jiggyfly]

God made two lights, one for day , one for night. The bright light was called day.......there is the 24 hour period.

The bible shows us time, and how men used to live a long life, it shows us how life has shortened .

God is very aware of time, and to God and to man, a day is a day.

Kit

Please provide scriptures to support how many hours are in a day.
I agree a day is a day but is there any evidence in the scriptures that a day in the Genesis account is 24 hours?

 

[Kit Carson]

Please provide scriptures to support how many hours are in a day.
I agree a day is a day but is there any evidence in the scriptures that a day in the Genesis account is 24 hours?

Impossible as they do not exist.

I could say please provide scriptures to prove that a day is a thousand years, but this is pointless also as this does not exist.

The best I can do is this one. Genesis 1:16 and 17. God made two lights one for day and one for night. He then set them in the heavens to provide light for the earth.

As God made one for day and one for night, and we live on the earth and we see day and night, I suspect Gods time is about the same as ours.

I hear people say.......God could not have possibly created the earth in six day.........I guess they do not know God very well. He is the creator and God......and how many days did he sit and plan and think and then put it all together?? Who knows.

To me God gave me common sense, so if he made day and night, then he looks at time as we do. Also some humans used to live close to a thousand years and as the time frame of the bible goes into the future which is now our past, we see how the life span does decrease, specifically about the time of the flood.

So I think a day is a day is a day.........A year is a year is a year.

Respectfully

Kit

 

[jiggyfly]

Impossible as they do not exist.

I could say please provide scriptures to prove that a day is a thousand years, but this is pointless also as this does not exist.

The best I can do is this one. Genesis 1:16 and 17. God made two lights one for day and one for night. He then set them in the heavens to provide light for the earth.

As God made one for day and one for night, and we live on the earth and we see day and night, I suspect Gods time is about the same as ours.

I hear people say.......God could not have possibly created the earth in six day.........I guess they do not know God very well. He is the creator and God......and how many days did he sit and plan and think and then put it all together?? Who knows.

To me God gave me common sense, so if he made day and night, then he looks at time as we do. Also some humans used to live close to a thousand years and as the time frame of the bible goes into the future which is now our past, we see how the life span does decrease, specifically about the time of the flood.

So I think a day is a day is a day.........A year is a year is a year.

Respectfully

Kit

Well one there are scriptures that state a day is with the Lord as thousand years.

I will assume your not familiar with Einstein's theory of relativity? You should google it, it is quite fascinating.

A year is a year unless it is leap year right? There is also a difference in years depending on the type of calender used. The calender used by the Hebrews was much different than the one used today.

 

[Brother Mike]

Day and night

Jiggyfly:

Brother Mike, I am curious where do you see in the scriptures that the day and the night are a 24 hour period?

I do see in the Genesis account that and evening and morning make a day But I don't see any mention of hours.:wink:

Kit Carson:

As God made one for day and one for night, and we live on the earth and we see day and night, I suspect Gods time is about the same as ours.

I can only Assume Jiggyfly goes out to mow his grass at 3:am, being confounded as to why it's dark.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

Jiggyfly:


Kit Carson:


I can only Assume Jiggyfly goes out to mow his grass at 3:am, being confounded as to why it's dark.

Jesus is Lord.

What? No scriptures to support your opinion on 24 Hours to a day BM?

Not sure what you mean by being confounded by why it is dark at 3:am, care to elaborate?

 

[Brother Mike]

Day and Night

What? No scriptures to support your opinion on 24 Hours to a day BM?

Not sure what you mean by being confounded by why it is dark at 3:am, care to elaborate?

You seem to be on fire here lately, and I am bowing out.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

There is nothing that I can find in the scriptures to conflict with Einsteins theory of relativity especially STR in conjunction with the creation account recorded in the book of Genesis. But this is just my opinion and I am open to adjustment and correction.

 

[ItinerantLurker]

These laws are the basis of fanatics and extremism. absolutely God did not tell them to hide behind bushes and kidnap and use young girls.

Might want to peruse Deut. 21:10-14 before going too far with this line of thinking.

Just some thoughts, as you do have to study the bible in its whole to understand many things. Without the knowledge and acceptance of Jesus they may never be revealed to you.

Kit

So. . .I can't understand how God is moral unless I have faith that he is moral? That's a bit problematic, don't you think?



Lurker

 

[David777]

Hello JiggyFly.

You might be interested in the following story.

Scientists spoke of their disbelief yesterday over claims that particles
have apparently been recorded travelling faster than the speed of light.

If the calculations are correct, the findings by physicists at the CERN
research centre they have disproved Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity
– the cornerstone of physics.

Subatomic particles called neutrinos were beamed from the Large Hadron Collider
in Switzerland to a laboratory in Italy 454 miles away, and beat the speed of light by 60 nanoseconds.


Read more: Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern: Did Einstein get it wrong? | Mail Online

Interesting is it not JiggyFly.

If this is correct then relativity is obsolete, since Einstien assumed the speed of light was constant.
There are further implications for physics if this is true of course. Perhaps a reset is in order for physics.

We will just have to wait to see if the findings are verified elsewhere.
It may be the greatest discovery man has ever made.

 

[jiggyfly]

You might be interested in the following story.

Scientists spoke of their disbelief yesterday over claims that particles
have apparently been recorded travelling faster than the speed of light.

If the calculations are correct, the findings by physicists at the CERN
research centre they have disproved Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity
– the cornerstone of physics.

Subatomic particles called neutrinos were beamed from the Large Hadron Collider
in Switzerland to a laboratory in Italy 454 miles away, and beat the speed of light by 60 nanoseconds.


Read more: Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern: Did Einstein get it wrong? | Mail Online

Interesting is it not JiggyFly.

If this is correct then relativity is obsolete, since Einstien assumed the speed of light was constant.
There are further implications for physics if this is true of course. Perhaps a reset is in order for physics.

We will just have to wait to see if the findings are verified elsewhere.
It may be the greatest discovery man has ever made.

Yes indeed it is very interesting, but I still find it fascinating how STR doesn't conflict with scripture and could answer some of the questions concerning time and how it relates to God.

 

[David777]

Oh, i agree.

Our problem is we do know so little, we are tragically ignorant.

When we view Creation in the Bible, we are so pathetically limited in
our appreciation of God's potential. Our own minds always apply limits.

God is way beyond our understanding, why do we limit that which
has no limitations. God is Spirit, we are temporal flesh.

 

[Kit Carson]

Might want to peruse Deut. 21:10-14 before going too far with this line of thinking.



So. . .I can't understand how God is moral unless I have faith that he is moral? That's a bit problematic, don't you think?



Lurker

Good Morning:

God is moral, his very way is so very simple. Many love to attack God and say he is a killer and not a moral entity. It is because they do take scriptures by themselves and by their own unwillingness to understand and to actually disprove God, so they can live in their own sin and not bow their head to God, the scriptures are used to try to disprove God all the time. I can assure you God is very moral. So lets go to Judges 21: 16-25 and read the whole thing.

It quite clearly says the sinful elders are the ones who instructed the people to go steal and rape young girls. God had nothing to do with it.

God in his message in the days of the beginnings did wish men of God to marry those who were within the faith. He did discourage marriage with those of another faith or those who worshiped false Gods and or Idols as this leads to great sin, and to many things, and for sure would not have told them to steal more sinful dance hall girls and marry them.

This is all people, doing it their way.

Now take the verses you quoted, Deuteronomy 21:10-14 and especially verse 14 that specifically instructs that captive women shall be treated kindly, with respect and if you find that she does not like you and there is no common ground then you are to set her free.

Or in your challenge to disprove God did you miss that one??

This was a different situation, and it was a different time , It was about war and what to do with those who did survive, and who was taken captive, there was no institutions, no welfare, no means for the women to be taken care of.....so custom did cause some to become captives of war. However overall God does instruct kindness and morality to be used by the captives.

Many love to disprove God, they jump on these verses and with vigor and vim, fight God.

I have news for you, you will not win a discussion with God. I have found I really do not care to win , I gripe at him some about the world, but he soothes my spirit and says be patient. He shows me in his entire word his way. Be aware yes there were customs of men, from war to divorce, laws by men ......allowed sometimes, but not the spirit of God.

Just as verse 14 will speak to you, treat the women fairly, with kindness and if there is no common ground, set her free. Understand what the entire story is.....

Praise God forever , for he is the one and true living God, and his morality is true and steady. It is man who deviates from it.

Respectfully

Kit

 

[Kit Carson]

I do not pay much attention to scientists. I am grateful for the knowledge gained so I do appreciate this. I love knowledge but never try to mix it with Gods word.

As for the mowing the yard at 3 a.m. So funny....... A bit of a jab out of respect, and friendship. The way we should all get along and have a grin.

In the verses where the bible speaks of a day being a thousand years and then reverses and says a thousand years are a day, speaks to me as God knows time but views it very differently and in explanation he is not tardy, he is aware, but the full measure of things have not became full so he does view time a bit different. After all he is eternal, but for us he made day and night. Years and so on. To fuss over one day difference in one way over another is so silly.....so there is 364 or 365 or whatever days in a year...I will never live those years to gain a year. Lol!

I accept Gods word in the simplicity he wishes me to understand it.

Oh spring is around the corner, could I get someone to come mow my yard this summer, it is kinda big, but would be good exercise. Be cool at night too.

Kit

 

[ItinerantLurker]

It quite clearly says the sinful elders are the ones who instructed the people to go steal and rape young girls. God had nothing to do with it.

Now take the verses you quoted, Deuteronomy 21:10-14 and especially verse 14 that specifically instructs that captive women shall be treated kindly, with respect and if you find that she does not like you and there is no common ground then you are to set her free.

Or in your challenge to disprove God did you miss that one??

Nowhere in that verse does it say anything at all about treating captive women "kindly", nor is whether or not "she likes you" or if you have "common ground" mentioned. At all. Anywhere. It says that Hebrew men can kill a woman's family, kidnap her, and force her to become their wife (IOW rape).

Be aware yes there were customs of men, from war to divorce, laws by men ......allowed sometimes, but not the spirit of God.

Ostensibly these are commands directly from God. How can you say they are not "the spirit of God"?

Just as verse 14 will speak to you, treat the women fairly,

Verse 14 does not say that.

with kindness and if there is no common ground, set her free.

Nor does it say that. Why do you feel the need to make things up that the text does not say in order to excuse the text? These verses make absolutely no mention of whether or not the woman wants to be taken as a wife by soldiers who killed her family, why are you pretending they do?

Also, forcing women to become your wives was God's form of a social safety net? Really? I guess ugly women didn't warrant such a provision.




Lurker

 

[Kit Carson]

It quite clearly says the sinful elders are the ones who instructed the people to go steal and rape young girls. God had nothing to do with it.




Nowhere in that verse does it say anything at all about treating captive women "kindly", nor is whether or not "she likes you" or if you have "common ground" mentioned. At all. Anywhere. It says that Hebrew men can kill a woman's family, kidnap her, and force her to become their wife (IOW rape).



Ostensibly these are commands directly from God. How can you say they are not "the spirit of God"?



Verse 14 does not say that.



Nor does it say that. Why do you feel the need to make things up that the text does not say in order to excuse the text? These verses make absolutely no mention of whether or not the woman wants to be taken as a wife by soldiers who killed her family, why are you pretending they do?

Also, forcing women to become your wives was God's form of a social safety net? Really? I guess ugly women didn't warrant such a provision.




Lurker

Peace be with you and my God grant you the eyes to see the truth. I will not argue with you at all.

I have shown you the truth and how to view these words. You may view them as you see. No sir kindly is not used in the words, it is evident that people of God do things with respect and kindness as much as possible in any certain circumstance. God gives us a mind and the sense to see things, modern words may not match the old ones, but the meaning is the same.

Read many of these so called transgressions commanded by God and you will see that men did do these things, but by their own mindset. If some were allowed by God, then they had brought a form of justice upon themselves at times.

You will find stories of deceit and lies for personal gain in the Bible, they also are not of command of God, they are stories to show what happens when men make their own choices without the guidance of God.

If you wish to find someone who will speak against God, you will have to seek further.

Take Care

Kit