"Rich" Christians?

[Rad]

Not necessarily. But they certainly did in the Rich young Ruler's case. I remember Robert Tourneau Who gave 90%, and lived on the "Tithe". It all depends who/what your GOD is. I've had a couple of "gods" in the past - Radio controlled aircraft, and Cigarettes. The aircraft was easy, but the cigarettes required direct intervention from God to beat.

Hi Bob, i know nothing of Robert Torneau, but if he was still materially Rich after giving away 90% of his wealth then i feel Christs condemnation would still apply, in the story of the poor widow in Luke 21 vs 1-4 Christs says "
The Widow's Offering
21 Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2 and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3 And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
It seems to me that its not the amount we give, its the loving sacrifice we make in giving thats important, the amount we have left after weve given, and if Robert Torneau was still rich after all hed given then perhaps Christs words in Matthew 7 vs 21-29 apply, "
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
it doesnt matter what you do, what good works you perform, if you ignore Christs teachings on riches you are building your "house on sand" and the floods and storms will cause it to fall.
for Christ said in Matthew 6 19-21"
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
If Robert Tourneau was still rich, was still storing up his Treasure on Earth then according to Christ, his heart was where his treasure was. and that treasure wasnt in heaven.

 

[Rad]

Rad God does not bless you to make you feel guilty....He Never does that....But He does bless us so we can be a blessing to others..The guilt is from the enemy who uses shame and blame against you every chance he gets....Both shame and blame can cripple you from being that blessing...So you do know what to do when you feel them, right...Throw them right back into the enemy's face and praise God for the opportunities He gives you to be that blessing

Hi Admon, i dont feel blessed by what i have for i know its the proceeds of an unjust and oppressive world economic system that puts the wealth of the many into the hands of the few causing such death and suffering,
And i do feel guilty, very guilty for what i have for its blood money, paid for in the lives of the countless men, woman and children that have died for me to have what i have. And i see guilt as just an aspect of caring, if we feel guilty about something its because we care, if we dont care then we dont feel guilt.
Perhaps the subject of "guilt" is for another thread, but thank you anyway Admon for your caring and thoughtful words.

 

[Hitch]

Hi Hitch, throughout the Gospels Christ repeatedly condemns riches and those that possess them, as in Luke 6:24, "woe to you who are rich for you have received your consolation", Matthew 6:19-21 "Do not store up Treasure on Earth,.... for where your Treasure is your Heart will be also" and also 6 vs 24".... you cannot serve both God and Mammon", Matthew 10 vs 25" Its easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than a rich man enter Heaven", Luke 16 19:31 , the story of Lazarus and the Rich man where the rich man goes to Hell because as Abraham says in vs 25 to the rich man" In your lifetime you received good things,....and now are tormented" and in the Magnificat ,Luke 1 vs 46-55 Mary says in vs 53..... and the Rich he (God) has sent empty away".
On the other hand there is a constant uplifting of the poor, as in Luke 6 vs 20 where Christ says, "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of Heaven", in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus the poor man goes straight to Heaven because as Abraham says, " in his lifetime Lazarus received evil things .... and now he is comforted", in the Magnificat Mary says, vs 52 and 53 " He (God) has exalted those of low degree ...... he has filled the Hungry with Good things", and in Matthew 25 vs 31-46, The Sheep and the Goats, Christ so identifies with the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the thirsty, the naked, those sick and imprisoned that he says when we help them we help him , but when we ignore them we ignore him and will be judged accordingly.
No it seems to me that the Saviour we follow is a Christ of the poor and a condemner of the rich, and they will be treated very differently indeed when it comes to Judgement day.

As above I suggest a review of Exodus and Leviticus.
You should know that Jesus was also called a son of David, Dave was one of the wealthiest men who had ever lived to that point, as was Job in his time, and Abe and Jacob... Do you know of any NT condemnation of Dave&Co?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Hi Bob, i know nothing of Robert Torneau, but if he was still materially Rich after giving away 90% of his wealth then i feel Christs condemnation would still apply, in the story of the poor widow in Luke 21 vs 1-4 Christs says "
The Widow's Offering
21 Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2 and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3 And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
It seems to me that its not the amount we give, its the loving sacrifice we make in giving thats important, the amount we have left after weve given, and if Robert Torneau was still rich after all hed given then perhaps Christs words in Matthew 7 vs 21-29 apply, "
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
it doesnt matter what you do, what good works you perform, if you ignore Christs teachings on riches you are building your "house on sand" and the floods and storms will cause it to fall.
for Christ said in Matthew 6 19-21"
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
If Robert Tourneau was still rich, was still storing up his Treasure on Earth then according to Christ, his heart was where his treasure was. and that treasure wasnt in heaven.

But the question remains: what HAS YOU??. If it's God, then what you possess is unimportant. I am (and probably you also) FILTHY RICH by comparison to most of the World's population. so why haven't YOU sold everything you own and given it to the "Poor" - if you're so against material possessions??

 

[Rad]

Greetings Rad,



Is this so?

I think you'll find that all are 'treated' with the holy Judgement of the LORD.

If you read through the Proverbs, you will see that there is a difference between the rich and poor and how they interact with others and of course, if a rich man puts his trust in riches, it is vanity. However, as we read in Ecclesiastes, all is vanity. May i add to that however, that for those whose riches are Christ, His riches are not vanity but surety.

Quite a lot is about the snares and futility, the pride, the love and the desires for money and riches, as well as the aloofness of the rich compared to the poor, who find themselves entreating the rich, where as the rich need entreat no one. A sort of , 'how to get by in life' sort of 'rule of thumb', as a book of wisdom to be written upon the table of your heart, for life. But again, when it comes to the riches we have in Christ, to me, the more pertinent question, far more so than the material riches, is do we share and invest and give of those riches we have in Christ.... or do we quickly forget them?
The adversary would get us thinking about if and how we do things with the material riches... as a snare to keep our eyes off the true riches which are everlasting. Let us give no place to the devil.

A poor and needy person is very capable of being selfish, greedy and sinning. A poor and needy person needs salvation as much as a rich person. Without Christ, the 'treatment' you mentioned is the same.

As far as giving goes, who are 'you' giving to and why? Forget tithing. That has nothing to do with this topic. The poor widow gave all, a rich man can tithe easily and not even feel it. However, I think your question goes a little deeper, for you.

Something very beautiful about being led by the Spirit is to actually be led by the Spirit and how that looks for one member of the body can be very different to how it does for another, but God gives the increase.... to the Body, Christ being the head.
For you, Rad, perhaps you need to be emptied of all outside support, or perhaps simply keep giving as quick as you get. If you give everything away and have nothing, you then can become part of the 'problem' you are concerned about, if you refuse to be fed like a sparrow.
But for a while now, i have been thinking that perhaps you should look into a decent charity mission and seek to join with them and do whatever you are best suited to do and that way you can be doing something about the many who have so little and suffer because of it. What is it like where you live? Brighten the corner where you are, until the LORD tells you otherwise, be it to stop or to go [and do what you are called to do, if that be the case].

But, i also keep coming back to the unsearchable riches of Christ that are yours if you are His. No amount of material riches will even give a person a glimpse of Christ's riches. However, being so rich as you are in Him [if indeed you are - you or anyone, that is] are you doing the good of God with those riches? Among the many, many poor and needy around the world, how many need the Salvation of God? Set them up with a house and job without any knowledge of Jesus Christ and they will perish. Giving money for helping does not always help either.
In many areas, a person can become a target if they have something. even if it is only some food.
Give money and what guarantee do you have it will be used for good? Even setting people up in business needs a lot of care in some countries because the 'bad' people will milk them or their goods, and sometimes by force.



What is is to 'lay up for yourself... '? Could it be to invest in God's Kingdom, and that is not with material money riches and the like but with the treasures of Christ that He has abundantly bestowed upon those who believe?

We do need to be careful how we read into Biblical text. We can see something because it fits our thinking and thereby miss what is being said.

Have a read of proverbs and let the Lord guide your thinking as you do. Some interesting stuff to be found in the treasure book of the Bible. Spend it wisely.
Trust deeply and completely in the LORD and commit your whole ways to the LORD and He will direct you and keep you.


Bless you Rad ....><>

Hi Br Bear, the point i was trying to make about how differently the Rich and poor are going to be judged is that Christ condemned the rich on so many ocassions and uplifted and blessed the poor, indeed he went so far as to fully associate himself with them in the Sheep and the Goats, it therefore seems to me that there is an inherent sin of being rich and an inherent blessing of being poor. A rich person can't be with Christ, or its almost impossible for them to do so, a poor person with Christ has no such impediment to salvation.

As to who i give to and why, well i think ive answered the why i give in another post, but as to who i give to. I give to Charities and NGO's working in the poorer countries, organisations like MSF, Christian Aid, STC, Y- Care and the like. And im giving more than i receive so that my riches are diminishing , but in truth i havent the strength of faith needed to give it all away and fully trust in Christ to provide, so i know only too well the truth of Christs words in riches possessing your heart, it is a struggle, a struggle with my inner demons of Greed and selfishness, but with Gods help i hope to overcome.

And i feel my calling, if indeed it is that, is to try to bring the Light of Christs Love, Justice and Compassion into the world, i think ive mentioned before that one of my favourite quotes is Micah 6:8, "And what does the Lord require of you but to act Justly and to |Love mercy and to walk humbly with your God". At the moment i run a Campaigning Group, dealing with issues of Injustice, Cruelty, suffering and Destruction in Human, Animal and Environmental Campaigns, with members all over the world, its challenging and often deeply upsetting work, but i feel called to do it.

I think what in trying to say Br Bear is what i feel we should do as followers of Christ, what we are called to be, i accept your point about sharing the Love of Christ with others, and what better way of showing that than to show Christs love in action as in the Matthew 25 vs 31-46, Sheep and the Goats. For we are called to be the light of the world so that men may see our good works and glorify our father in Heaven, to feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked and provide water for the thirsty.

And i think that in Matthew 6 19-21 Christ is talking about the incompatibility of Earthly Treasure and Faith, for he says in vs 24 " No man can serve two masters,.... you cannot serve both God and Mammon" and that by giving our Earthly Treasure to those in need we are storing up Treasure in heaven, for as he said to the Rich man, "If you would be perfect, give all you have to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven and come, take up your cross and follow me"

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Hi Admon, that may be, but i would also be willing to guess that however much he received, he gave most of it away, and was never again the Rich man he formerly was, because he recognised from Christs teachings that Christ condemned riches and having already seen the error of his ways would not fall into that trap again.
He recognised that in a World of Poverty and suffering you cant claim to love if youre living in Wealth and comfort and others are living in that same poverty and suffering, his heart had been changed to Christs Love and Compassion and i dont think there would be any going back.

It seems obvious, Rad, that you do not understand how giving works....Giving increases your riches...Unlike the Babylonian system of finance, Gods system of finance makes no Earthly sense. If you want riches, give. Mr Le Tourneau had to give more and more because he gave more and more. In the Babylonian system it makes no sense at all

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Hi Hitch, throughout the Gospels Christ repeatedly condemns riches and those that possess them, as in Luke 6:24, "woe to you who are rich for you have received your consolation", Matthew 6:19-21 "Do not store up Treasure on Earth,.... for where your Treasure is your Heart will be also" and also 6 vs 24".... you cannot serve both God and Mammon", Matthew 10 vs 25" Its easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than a rich man enter Heaven", Luke 16 19:31 , the story of Lazarus and the Rich man where the rich man goes to Hell because as Abraham says in vs 25 to the rich man" In your lifetime you received good things,....and now are tormented" and in the Magnificat ,Luke 1 vs 46-55 Mary says in vs 53..... and the Rich he (God) has sent empty away".
On the other hand there is a constant uplifting of the poor, as in Luke 6 vs 20 where Christ says, "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom of Heaven", in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus the poor man goes straight to Heaven because as Abraham says, " in his lifetime Lazarus received evil things .... and now he is comforted", in the Magnificat Mary says, vs 52 and 53 " He (God) has exalted those of low degree ...... he has filled the Hungry with Good things", and in Matthew 25 vs 31-46, The Sheep and the Goats, Christ so identifies with the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the thirsty, the naked, those sick and imprisoned that he says when we help them we help him , but when we ignore them we ignore him and will be judged accordingly.
No it seems to me that the Saviour we follow is a Christ of the poor and a condemner of the rich, and they will be treated very differently indeed when it comes to Judgement day.

Rad I'm aware this post is to Hitch...But....What is meant by "Poor" What is "The Kingdom of Heaven" and where is it?

The rich man did not go to hell because he was rich...Did he?

Why do you use a 'song' as an authority? (Magnificat)

In the Babylonian system, in which we live, giving is foolish but in Gods financial system giving is not Matthew 6:19-21 "Do not store up Treasure on Earth but it IS storing up your treasures in heaven....The more you give, the more is given to you, the more you give, the more is given...and your treasure is stored in heaven...... You need to stop "interpreting scripture through the screen of religion....Religion IS the Babylonian system.

 

[Waggles]

The temptation of Jesus
Luke 4:5 And he [Satan] led him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said to him, To thee will I give the whole of this authority, and the glory of them, because it hath been delivered to me; and to whomsoever I will, I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall all be thine.

 

[Dave M]

1 Timothy 6:6-8
Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.

Philippians 4:11-13
Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Hebrews 13:5
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Christians are surely a peculiar people!

 

[Waggles]

Christians are surely a peculiar people!

Yes; it is a truth well understood and upheld in Pentecost
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[Hitch]

Yes; it is a truth well understood and upheld in Pentecost
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

As I understand it peculiar as used in the passages above, refers to having been purchased, not sure that how Mik meant it

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rad

Greetings,

Hi Br Bear, the point i was trying to make about how differently the Rich and poor are going to be judged is that Christ condemned the rich on so many ocassions and uplifted and blessed the poor, indeed he went so far as to fully associate himself with them in the Sheep and the Goats, it therefore seems to me that there is an inherent sin of being rich and an inherent blessing of being poor. A rich person can't be with Christ, or its almost impossible for them to do so, a poor person with Christ has no such impediment to salvation.

As to who i give to and why, well i think ive answered the why i give in another post, but as to who i give to. I give to Charities and NGO's working in the poorer countries, organisations like MSF, Christian Aid, STC, Y- Care and the like. And im giving more than i receive so that my riches are diminishing , but in truth i havent the strength of faith needed to give it all away and fully trust in Christ to provide, so i know only too well the truth of Christs words in riches possessing your heart, it is a struggle, a struggle with my inner demons of Greed and selfishness, but with Gods help i hope to overcome.

And i feel my calling, if indeed it is that, is to try to bring the Light of Christs Love, Justice and Compassion into the world, i think ive mentioned before that one of my favourite quotes is Micah 6:8, "And what does the Lord require of you but to act Justly and to |Love mercy and to walk humbly with your God". At the moment i run a Campaigning Group, dealing with issues of Injustice, Cruelty, suffering and Destruction in Human, Animal and Environmental Campaigns, with members all over the world, its challenging and often deeply upsetting work, but i feel called to do it.

I think what in trying to say Br Bear is what i feel we should do as followers of Christ, what we are called to be, i accept your point about sharing the Love of Christ with others, and what better way of showing that than to show Christs love in action as in the Matthew 25 vs 31-46, Sheep and the Goats. For we are called to be the light of the world so that men may see our good works and glorify our father in Heaven, to feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked and provide water for the thirsty.

And i think that in Matthew 6 19-21 Christ is talking about the incompatibility of Earthly Treasure and Faith, for he says in vs 24 " No man can serve two masters,.... you cannot serve both God and Mammon" and that by giving our Earthly Treasure to those in need we are storing up Treasure in heaven, for as he said to the Rich man, "If you would be perfect, give all you have to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven and come, take up your cross and follow me"

Thanks Rad for getting back to me.

There is quite a bit i would like to share with you of what you wrote.
Your turn for patience!
Shouldn't be too long.

I can really 'dig' where you are coming from and have had much the same outlook before today and even today i can chew over those things as i consider the 'subject'. But i do think there are a couple of pieces missing that help make the picture what it is meant to be and that is what i would like to share with you.

One thing i think most seem to be 'missing' is about 'storing up treasures in Heaven'. We have to get back to the righteousness of Christ.

Drop me a PM about the Campaigning Group, if you would like to.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

Yes; it is a truth well understood and upheld in Pentecost
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Love it !! never spotted this in scripture before thank you brother @Waggles

 

[Rad]

But the question remains: what HAS YOU??. If it's God, then what you possess is unimportant. I am (and probably you also) FILTHY RICH by comparison to most of the World's population. so why haven't YOU sold everything you own and given it to the "Poor" - if you're so against material possessions??

Hi Bob, let me quote Matthew 6 vs 19-21 one more time,
Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Christ doesnt say, "Be careful when you store up treasure on Earth", he says " DO NOT STORE UP FOR YOURSELVES TREASURE ON EARTH", and he doesnt say "for where your Treasure is your heart may be also", he says " FOR WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS YOUR HEARY WILL BE ALSO", it really cant be any clearer than that, if you store up riches on Earth then no matter what you believe, your heart WILL be with your riches and not with Christ, which is in line with Christs other teachings that ive quoted many times where he condemns Riches and those that possess them.......
as to your second point, yes compared to people living in abject poverty i am Rich, in the society i live in i would be regarded as poor, but its Gods world and we must look on it as such, so i am only too aware of my riches, and the reason i havent sold everything and given it to the worlds poor is because i dont have the strength of faith to do so, i still trust in my riches and its hard to break that bond, but i am trying, i give more then i receive so my bank balance is diminishing, but after working all my life building up a little capital for my retirement its not easy, but the first step is to recognise the sin we are committing, the second is to ask forgiveness and finally the third is to address and try to remove that sin from our lives, and with Christs help thats what im trying to do.

 

[Rad]

At one time men met with their workers, ate with them and went to church with them. There was a loyalty impossible in a deperson-alized relationship. A Christian employer sees himself as having duties to all those who work for him; an employer whose views have only an economic determination cannot treat them as men.
I have seen mansions once owned by wealthy capitalists built within a block or two of their factory. They were close to their work and workers in more ways than one. When man is reduced to economic man, to an abstraction, he will in time be dissatisfied, no matter how well paid. We are all of us more than a function, and to reduce a man to his function for us is to dehumanize and degrade him, and no high wages can do more than briefly palliate that fact.
To dehumanize “capital” and “labor” means to deny that any personal and Christian relationship is necessary between employer and worker. The connection is then reduced to an economic one; it becomes simply a matter of money. Society, however, cannot exist without care one for another, and if persons refuse to care, then caring is assumed by the state. The result is welfarism, impersonal and destructive care.
Caring, charity, has passed from the individual, from the church, family, and businessman, to the state, and it is proving to be socially suicidal. It is also destructive of freedom and property. The taxes required for statist charity support the bureaucracy better than the poor.
The property owner is no longer the source of charity; the state is in
the main. The property owner is less and less in control of his property, and he pays a ransom for it in taxes. Having surrendered his godly responsibility, he is no longer a free man.
~R.J. Rushdoony, ‘Property, Charity, and Freedom,’ in “An Informed Faith,” vol. 3, (1990), p. 868-69.

Hi Hitch, im not sure how this relates to "Rich Christians", perhaps you could elaborate, thanks.

 

[Hitch]

The same bible that has all these warm fuzzies tells us its better to have a servant than to be one.

 

[Hitch]

Hi Hitch, im not sure how this relates to "Rich Christians", perhaps you could elaborate, thanks.

Did the man who built his house on a rock sin buy not giving his building capital away ?

 

[Rad]

It seems obvious, Rad, that you do not understand how giving works....Giving increases your riches...Unlike the Babylonian system of finance, Gods system of finance makes no Earthly sense. If you want riches, give. Mr Le Tourneau had to give more and more because he gave more and more. In the Babylonian system it makes no sense at all

Hi Admon, yes youre right, i dont understand how this system of giving works, for when ive given, and especially so now, my wealth reduces, but thats what im trying to do, it seems a strange system where God Gives back to the rich more than they gave to the poor in the first place, so that they can then give even more to the poor, it sort of begs the question, if God so loves the poor, which if you look at the pronouncements of Christ he certainly does, then why not just give that money to the poor in the first place?
And also if Christ condemned the Rich, indeed made it an issue of Salvation as in "Its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a Rich man enter Heaven", why would he keep making people richer and therefore more subject to condemnation?.

 

[Hitch]

Hi Admon, yes youre right, i dont understand how this system of giving works, for when ive given, and especially so now, my wealth reduces, but thats what im trying to do, it seems a strange system where God Gives back to the rich more than they gave to the poor in the first place, so that they can then give even more to the poor, it sort of begs the question, if God so loves the poor, which if you look at the pronouncements of Christ he certainly does, then why not just give that money to the poor in the first place?
And also if Christ condemned the Rich, indeed made it an issue of Salvation as in "Its easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a Rich man enter Heaven", why would he keep making people richer and therefore more subject to condemnation?.

Were Job, Abe Dave and Sol condemned ?